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Sub DPS help

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I'm actually posting this on behalf of my girlfriend, who is quite new to WoW and really struggling to master her sub rogue in raids.  And since I basically only play my priest, I can't help out too much.  Any thoughts?


First off, links:


And for good measure, compare to her friend Antsi (who is usually sub too, and until recently had lower gear, but still did more DPS), and who was also in the raid.


So, let's look at Gruul, which is a pretty simple Sub fight from what I'm told.  Her DPS was 22.8k, which is hardly great for heroic Gruul, especially with 670+ ilvl.  AMR says that puts her in the 5th percentile for sub rogues with her gear; Warcraft Logs is similar with 8th.


She's got what I believe are the best enchants/gems, and is following AMR in terms of choosing gear.  Her talents and rotation are echoing the Icy Veins guide.  She flasks religiously.  Uptime on rupture is okay, I think?  She's using poisons.  Is there something obvious going wrong here?  She's basically trying to be a cookie cutter sub rogue, but her performance puts her way at the bottom of the pack; literally 90% of sub rogues with similar gear are turning in higher parses.  Help?


You can see some other logs for her here, but it's more of the same.  Getting better, but still pulling 20-22k, even after getting her 2pc bonus last week, which isn't really what you want for heroic progression.  And it's always lower than what her friend Antsi is doing with (until like, last week) worse gear.  (Not that Antsi is pulling great number either most fights, but it seems easiest to use the only other rogue as a benchmark.)


Any advice?  Is this just a question of trying to eke out a few more DPS by focusing on perfect rotations and maximising uptimes?  Because it feels like there's something bigger here.


ANY help would be appreciated.  Even just new questions to ask, or things to try.  Will try pretty much anything at this point.  :)

Edited by Lazare

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I would recomend using Shadowcraft and not AMR for work out gearing and what enchants to use


Kind of the like Rogue Bible


Checked the armoury and I think you shoudl be gemming and enchanting Multistrike and not Mastery for Sub Rogues


I will let the Sub experts dissect your logs

Edited by Vagiseals

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First of all. Enchant Multistrike.

Then as example Gruul. She cast 28 times feint. I dont know your tactic for this boss but if u alternate the inferno slice between two groups and she stays in one group, then she shouldnt get a amount of 28 casts for feint. So she could save energy for her damage.


Then her rotation. She shouldnt start with Ambush. Ambush does damage and we get our Find weakness buff but u wont get ur sanguinary vein buff for 30% more damage. So start like icy vein explains.


1. Premeditation

2. Slice and Dice

3. Prepot

4. Garrote

5. Shadow Reflection+Shadow Dance



8.Ambush and Eviscerate until Shadow Dance ends or u need to refresh Rupture.


So as u can see. Never use Hemorrhage during your shadow dance. You can refresh it before your Shadow Dance but you shouldnt do it in your shadow dance. Then use Vanish as often as possible. Then use your in fight pot if you have Shadow Dance and Shadow Reflection available.


A great amount of damage is the right use of your pots and your Shadow Dance.



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Gem, enchant and favor Multistrike, as it does more for Sub in PvE. Still, as Vagi (lol) said, check your weights on Shadowcraft.


As for Gruul fight (got from WCL):


SnD uptime is really good, but you cast AFTER you go in the fight - should be done BEFORE/RIGHT WHEN fight starts;

3 Vanishes over a 4 min fight - should be 4 with Prep;

No Prep usage;

Open with Garrote - applies both FW and SV, so it saves a GCD;

Use your first Rupture AFTER Shadow Reflection, so it can be copied - Rupture is your highest damaging skill, should have 100% uptime on it, and if you can copy it, do so. Clip on 7s or less, watch for multi multistrikes, it eats your Rupture uptime - better have a tracker on it.


On opener, I'd suggest doing like this:


Prem + SnD + Prepot


Garrote > Ambush x2 > SR > Rupture > SD > proceed with Spambush x Evispam > FW is about to fall off > Vanish > Prep > Ambush as much as you can, refresh buffs, Rupture if it's the case > FW is about to fall off again > Vanish O² > rinse and repeat > normal rotation


Your 2pc usage is rather nice - I'd risk a bit more and Dance with 50e (you did once within Gruul fight), but if it's 1s late you could cap and waste energy, so keep like that, it's really good.


For the rest of the logs:


Use Garrote only once. The damage is pitiful, EpCP is crappy (45e for 1CP, better cast Backstab);

Tighten Preparation usage - right AFTER 1st Vanish;

Use SnD before or right on pull - uptime is really good, just gotta enter the fight with it already rolling;

Improve on Rupture uptime. This is one of your biggest damage dealers, so it should NEVER fall. It's tricky tho, due to nature of Multistrike speeding up it's ticking, so keep an eye on it AND prepare yourself with a full duration (as long you don't clip it over 7s) for when you're about to Dance so you can avoid having the need to refresh it while Dancing;

Don't worry much about Hemo. It's a plus to have it rolling, but don't restrain yourself on having to keep it up 24/7. Use as a filler (glyphed) for when Rupture falls (never, ever ever ever);

Aim for Eviscerating while inside Find Weakness - pool CPs with Anticipation and dump them while Find Weakness - try entering SDance with 6~7CPs (once you enter SD, you'll earn 2CP from your first Ambush and probably a HaT proc will pop up from nowhere - to avoid capping CP, dish out those (de)buffed Eviscs right away);

Prepot and fight pot. Nuff said.


That's what I've seen there. Probably missed out something, hope some other fellow sneaky bros here pop out of shadows with more pointers.


Hope I helped and she can improve!


P.S.: Is this Sachiko a girl named Sarah?

Edited by lipsinch

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