Heroes of the Storm Jaina

[positiv2 955]

9 minutes ago, Guest Gwinty said:

I was just wondering: Is there an update planed for your guides? Because the changelogs read that the Ability guid was updated at Jule16, the Strategy guid was updated April16 and the synergy and counter guide was updated Jule16. There where many heroes added to the game and many changes and I would love to hear your opinions on those Heroes and changes.

Yes, this guide will receive an update. Sadly, our authors are currently busy, so you will probably have to wait a bit. Sorry for the incovenience.

18 minutes ago, Guest Gwinty said:

Also I was wondering about the Talent guide: The Build Guide talks about three builds, while the Talent page only refers to one specific build. I don't think its fitting to have the build guide advice Talents that the Talent guid turned down.

Thank you forpointing it out. I will make sure to get this looked at. Again, sorry for the inconvenience.

25 minutes ago, Guest Gwinty said:

Also as another use already mentiont the Q-Build is very popular right now and that made me wonder: Why is it? Is it just popular or is it more effective?

The Q build is popular because it's good. It's quite skillshot reliant, so take this build only if you can hit Q (almost) every time.

[Guest Wrecker#1722]

I am not going to tell you how many times I finished a kill when taking Winters reach. Not only that using it allows me to get closer to a chilled target that started from far away to get close enough to use my cone after placing my blizzard. 

[Valks 2,407]

On 3/25/2017 at 10:14 PM, Guest Wrecker#1722 said:

I am not going to tell you how many times I finished a kill when taking Winters reach. Not only that using it allows me to get closer to a chilled target that started from far away to get close enough to use my cone after placing my blizzard. 

The thing is, often you don't need the extra reach. In teamfights, it will get body blocked, even with the additional single pierce. If you're using it to engage and require that extra range, often this is just a mistake of positioning. If you reposition yourself before engaging, you won't need the extra range and can simply keep them slowed and closer to you due to the 30% slow.

[Guest Bang Bang Shooting]

Sooo... this guide will receive an update right? it's been 3 months now.

[positiv2 955]

2 hours ago, Guest Bang Bang Shooting said:

Sooo... this guide will receive an update right? it's been 3 months now.

An update should come this or the following week. Sorry to keep you waiting!

[Guest Bang Bang Shooting]

14 hours ago, positiv2 said:

An update should come this or the following week. Sorry to keep you waiting!

Finally, thanks you for your hard work :).

[Guest Bang Bang Shooting]

Is an update for Jaina and Illidan (or any others outdated heroes) gonna come out this week right? It's been almost 2 weeks already :(.

[positiv2 955]

6 hours ago, Guest Bang Bang Shooting said:

Is an update for Jaina and Illidan (or any others outdated heroes) gonna come out this week right? It's been almost 2 weeks already :(.

Sadly, the last two patches came with a somewhat short succession, which overloaded our authors, especially Oxygen who has been assigned extra work, which made Jaina's guide a low priority as there should be no outdated information in it AFAIK and is rather a thing of the old format/new format, which we don't believe to be a pressing matter.

As for Illidan, the only change he has received so far is the change of Unending Hatred, which doesn't change its viability that much - the update is again a cosmetic thing mostly.

With Oxygen being assigned extra work with higher priority, I don't really know the ETA and I do not dare to guess.

I am very sorry for this course of events which made the updates a low priority item on our to-do list, but the guides are still up-to date apart from the format, so they should be usable.

[Plergoth 277]

Many, if not all, the guides on here are so good with their extensive analysis and concise information that the old format guides such as this one are still very much on point for heroes such as Jaina who haven't had any changes. No doubt the authors are hard at work continuing to bring us this high standard, and we thank you all for your efforts! 

[Guest ArtVandelay]

*Note - I tried to sign in and I am getting 404 errors.

 

I agree with most of this guide, but not all.  I find ring of frost much better (turns a battle and sometimes entire game around) than elemental.  I also take issue that the description on level 20 ring now says you can't take it with taking elemental.  It used to actually say why it is not that effective, which is because it  stuns in the middle and that is all it adds.

I also prefer the energy talent at level 4 (I used to only play piercing talent at  4).  I find that unless you are in a map where you are constantly laning (Spiders) or there are minions in the way (Infernal Shrine), the piercing isn't that helpful.  Sure, you can camp faster (hits both siege giants) or hit two heroes at times (I find this to be too precise positioning wise to try and get two targets and can get you killed).  But the extra energy helps a ton when you are in sustained battles (Braxis wave clear, Immortal fights, killing punisher, garden terror, etc.).  I feel you get more value on most maps from that, and those talents should both be situational depending on the map.

I also prefer the lowering of armor to the 1 second stun, but I could see the stun being better sometimes.  My point is that Jaina should capitalize on bad positioning and burst targets, rather than trying to create positioning advantages like you suggest with the 1 second stun.  I usually have no trouble landing the 2nd wave of blizzard anyway as I cast blizzard and quickly cone before the blizzard lands (like the Kerrigan pull/stun combo works).  Only heroes with an extreme escape avoid the waves that way. 

 

[positiv2 955]

Oxy said he will be rewriting this guide. In its current state I agree with you on most issues. By Energy Talent, do you mean Arcane Intellect? Currently most of Jaina's talent tiers are very balanced (I'd say all except 7, 10 and 20), so the talent you pick is mostly up to personal preference than power.

21 hours ago, Guest ArtVandelay said:

*Note - I tried to sign in and I am getting 404 errors.

That's strange, I am not having any issues signing in. Where (url) did you tried logging in from?

[Slaystation 0]

Jaina isn't my main but I've played as/with/against her since Beta and I've always felt that the range on Frostbolt is absolutely mandatory, otherwise she puts herself in an extremely vulnerable position (even for poking) where almost every competent team would delete her with little to no effort. The Storm Front talent (lvl13 Blizzard range) also feels like a game changer but not as much as Winter's Reach.

With the Kel'thuzad update I feel that the range as become even more important since the Ice Block ability is only acquirable by doing 15k dmg to chilled heroes. It may not seem like much compared to Jaina's average overall hero damage but you'll find that a lot of games (victories) would end without having earned Ice Block even past level 20.

[SteveFrost 97]

Yeap. Still build carved in stone...:/

[ArtVandelay 24]

This guide needs an update with all the new changes.  Especially since some talents are actually gone now.  Jaina used to be one of my mains (still one of my favorites).  I tried the new changes out last night (only a couple games).  The new level 1 talent is really nice,   The quest is pretty easy of course, unless maybe you are on a map like battle of ancients where you will rarely get globes.  I never took the other two talents anyway (always took the extra chill amount).

If you take the level 1 quest and the talent that returns mana from chilled targets, you basically never have to hearth for mana ever again.  I am not sure the 2nd talent is really needed most times, but I also usually don't need the piercing bolt either (if you position well you don't hit minions with it much anyway), though it does help to chill two heroes in objective battles.  Most times I will probably take that, but on a map like battle of the ancients, I would probably skip the level 1 quest and take the other mana one to help sustain burst on the immortal (since it is easy to burn your energy in that prolonged fight in the middle).

I always took Ring of Frost (and usually get 2+ heroes trapped in it most uses).  But they buffed Elemental a lot, so I think I will go with that now (unless a teammate has real good setup CC for the ring, which gives you more reliable damage and helps with her trait quest.  Still not sure if I like the cone width/CD more or the root on cone.   The width isn't spectacular IMO, but the CD is huge.  I have just always tried to maximize her burst rather than CC, because her role should be following up and bursting targets displaced, and not trying to initiate CC for your team.

 

At any rate, the changes were really good IMO.  She has a lot easier time sustaining her damage now and not being a very short time contributor to a team fight.  She always had good lane clear, but can easily stay in lane now with the extra mana.

Edited September 7, 2017 by ArtVandelay

[positiv2 955]

13 hours ago, ArtVandelay said:

This guide needs an update with all the new changes.

Not sure what you mean. The guide has been updated already. Are there outdated parts somewhere in the guide?

[Trensicourt 5]

Ice Floes and Icefury Wand are both viable from my experience. The cooldown reduction on Ice Floes is very easily filled and has great synergy with 16 Ice Cone talents. Icefury Wand's solid damage boost is comparable to Ice Lance and is far more reliant. It also has great synergy with Ice Barrier, since it basically incorporates Vigorous Assault into her AA. The Blizzard cdr is an added bonus, making the talent even better. Besides, Jaina should always be in range in someone that is chilled, since she shines best at mid-range and her chill self-peels for her.

On the other hand, I'm not a fan of Ice Lance, especially for team fights. It's a strong talent, but relies on a skillshot that can be predicted. The only reason I would pick it is to counter melee and use it for PvE. Otherwise, I could get more aoe damage with Ice Floes or a more consistent AA damage with Icefury Wand.

Edited September 10, 2017 by Trensicourt

[Oxygen 446]

On 9/9/2017 at 11:57 PM, Trensicourt said:

Ice Floes and Icefury Wand are both viable from my experience. The cooldown reduction on Ice Floes is very easily filled and has great synergy with 16 Ice Cone talents. Icefury Wand's solid damage boost is comparable to Ice Lance and is far more reliant. It also has great synergy with Ice Barrier, since it basically incorporates Vigorous Assault into her AA. The Blizzard cdr is an added bonus, making the talent even better. Besides, Jaina should always be in range in someone that is chilled, since she shines best at mid-range and her chill self-peels for her.

On the other hand, I'm not a fan of Ice Lance, especially for team fights. It's a strong talent, but relies on a skillshot that can be predicted. The only reason I would pick it is to counter melee and use it for PvE. Otherwise, I could get more aoe damage with Ice Floes or a more consistent AA damage with Icefury Wand.

I've played a bit more with them, and while I think that while they're decent talents, I feel very "slow" without Ice Lance since I usually pretty reliably trigger the cooldown reduction. It is particularly fun with Icy Veins. But, in the end, all 3 talents are within 2% win/loss ratio, so no huge loss there, whatever you do end up picking. I tend to be pretty mercenary-oriented however, so Ice Lance may just feel more natural to my playstyle.

The biggest challenge in guide writing is when to recommend everything; I tend to be open to alternate choices, but I need to find a justification. If ice lance performs just as well, on top of opening easier mercenary camping and sieging, there's no reason to really go for other talents.

[Guest Guest Rainy]

My opinions -

1) At level 1 Winter's Reach is a genuine consideration, especially against melee assassins that can kill you if you approach too close (Illidan, Kerrigan, etc). This lets you poke them while remaining out of range of their gap closers. It's true that you'll need to get close to use Cone of Cold, but this gives you a way to continue to be useful while waiting for an opportunity. You'll be sinking more talents into this skill later as well. Fingers of Frost is the greedier alternative. If you can safely get close to use Cone of Cold or even add some autoattack damage, then I'd take this before Winter's Reach too.

2) At level 4, Frost Shards is too good to justify Arcane Intellect, even if another talent were taken at level 1 (or even if another talent were taken at level 1, since Frost Shards complements Winter's Reach).

3) At level 7, Ice Floes deserves more than an X. Both boosts to Cone of Cold are valuable, especially in conjunction with your level 16 choice. Increased AoE also improves Jaina's waveclear.

4) At level 13, I've grown somewhat fond of Storm Front. Icy Veins is by no means bad, but it's also no Rewind. Your damage isn't available again immediately, and by the time it's available the opportunity might no longer be there. Storm Front allows you to cast Blizzard behind the enemy team, which is much stronger than casting it on their frontline. It's especially good if you're in a map with chokepoints where Blizzard is stronger, e.g. Towers of Doom (where it also lets you interrupt opponents better). I would not make Storm Front default, but maybe a ?

5) At level 16, if taking Storm Front at level 13, then Snowstorm becomes defensible.

I think you could consider Winter's Reach / Frost Shards Ice Lance -> Storm Front / Snowstorm as a separate build. This gives up a little on Cone of Cold (can still use it to hit frontliners) to turn Jaina into a long-range nuker ala Chromie, except with much more reliable damage.

[Aasgier 36]

Hm, as a new player (and especially with Assassinsv I just suck), I won't comment on the viability of the Siege Build with Winter's Reach and Storm Front. However, I do feel that it hinders your output in prolonged teamfights, which is quite harmful.

However, I do agree that the level 7 Ice Floes talent is underrated, at least if it comes to waveclearing. However, I also feel you give up some power in teamfights for using this talent as it pretty much forces you to pick the Ice Barrier on level 13 for the sustainability (as you will be even closer to your opponents). But on maps like Braxis Holdout, where you can get flooded by minions of which no one is particularly large to require Ice Shard spam, I do feel this is a viable option.

 

[Morcalivan 86]

I prefer using Jaina as a multi lane waveclear who can take opportunistic hero and siege damage when moving across map. When waiting for cooldown I'll often move to a new lane. When low on mana I just hearth and head to an opposite lane. She's a pretty easy character to be impactful with. And while fragile and not mobile, the slows sure do help with escapes too.

For Talents, I grab Chill combos and it works just fine. Don't see a need to change things yet. She's a pretty relaxing character to play.

[Guest Anon]

Warden's cage should be listed as a good setup for ring of frost.

[MrBrown 0]

Hey Folks,

when I started playing Jaina I was like most here who want to take range on frostbolt and maybe blizzard too.

The thing is as I improved I came to the conclusion that the range is not really required and by taking them you loose alot of other cool percs. I think to play jaina at full potential you have to get a little closer anyways. Otherwise you couldnt land any auto-attacks not the mention cone of ice wich has the highest single burst dmg of jainas skills.

I run most of the times this build and i call it "Duelling Jaina" https://www.icy-veins.com/heroes/talent-calculator/jaina#31.0!3332223

It has no range, radius increase or bolt pierce. These three things just make it easier for beginner to land their skills. I rather go with things like shield, mana reg, bonus armor, armor reduction. For level 20 blink can be pretty awesome but it depends on the game. same goes for the level 4 talent where I alter between arcane intellect and frost armor depending on how much in danger of getting hit/jumped by AA heroes I am.

This build makes jaina much more durable and she can survive pretty well. The armor reduction is also pretty strong as it buffs the dmg output of your whole team. As little bonus the shield from ice barrier lets you take down merc camps pretty easy without losing much hp.

The downside is as I mentioned the fact that all your skills are harder to land now and require better positioning.

[Guest whatdoyathink]

Fingers of frost is not that good of a talent to take at level 1 imho, I switched and started going with Winter's reach every game and I like it much more.
 

Quote

Winter's Reach has very little practical effect. Very rarely will there be a situation where the increased range on Frostbolt makes a difference, especially considering you need to be very close to hit enemies with Cone of Cold. Furthermore, Frostbolt's relatively slow projectile speed makes it difficult to fully exploit the range increase.

Not true, increased range has many practical uses, especially poking enemies who have higher range than you. You can cast it out of field of view. You can finish off enemies running away more often. With pierce this talent becomes even more useful/powerful and with ice lance ganking is so much easier.

Meanwhile fingers of frost requires you to collect orbs, which not always can be possible and actually forces you to a different gameplay style because you have to focus on collecting orbs. 10% increased damage looks good on paper but I never manage to get the orbs before like 20 minute mark, and by then Jaina's damage is so ridiculous that you don't even need that additional 10% because any kill is an overkill.

In my opinion it should be marked as situational. Longer range is very helpful during laning phase against some of the heroes. I personally stopped going fingers of frost and at the moment and I always pick the increased range after playing few games with it.

[ShadowerDerek 69]

5 hours ago, Guest whatdoyathink said:

10% increased damage looks good on paper but I never manage to get the orbs before like 20 minute mark

Really? 20 globes are so easy to collect as long as you keep clearing lanes, rotate, and get merc camps, which you should always do as Jaina. 

5 hours ago, Guest whatdoyathink said:

In my opinion it should be marked as situational.

I do agree that it's situational though. The extra range is good against immobile assassins who out-range you, like Chromie and Hammer. 

[Guest me again]

6 hours ago, ShadowerDerek said:

Really? 20 globes are so easy to collect as long as you keep clearing lanes, rotate, and get merc camps, which you should always do as Jaina.

Yeah, the merc camps are the most reliable source for the orbs. When in lane I feel like some people just wait for me to go for the orb just to punish me, so collecting them sometimes might be tricky and put you in danger, and I usually play Jaina very cautiously, especially in the beginning as she is so squishy. I think the fastest I completed this quest was around 14th minute mark, but still, the extra damage on frostbite was redundant at that time.

On the other hand thanks to increased range on frostbolt I can deny xp to enemy laners more efficiently and the possibility to hit them outside of field of view guarantees some good poking without putting me in danger, even if they hide behind minions. Fingers of frost forced me to play defensively in few situations and just soak. I also never have mana management related problems, so that 2 mps doesn't cut it for me.

I don't know, to me winter's reach is better than the fingers of frost.