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Damien

Arachyr Firebats Witch Doctor

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Soooo, in your last update, you somehow have Hex for the first skill under solo progression in the table.  Shouldn't that be Wall of Death to take advantage of the 6-piece set bonus for the Helltooth set?  Otherwise this build has no way of proccing it.  You mention taking Wall of Death with Consuming with Spirits further down in the first paragraph beneath the table, but in the table itself it says Hex with Jinx in the Solo Progression verion, so I think this was just an oversight when updating it for Season 9 with regards to the soloing variation.

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7 hours ago, ScrublordWD said:

Soooo, in your last update, you somehow have Hex for the first skill under solo progression in the table.  Shouldn't that be Wall of Death to take advantage of the 6-piece set bonus for the Helltooth set?  Otherwise this build has no way of proccing it. 

He also updated the guide the day before patch no longer listing the helltooth set as optional so I think he meant to take out it completely from the guide. Arachyr is more than enough to solo right now.

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Just wanted to drop by and give my 2 cents after the first weekend of the buffed Arachyr both in 4-man and Solo.

We went pretty hard and after day 2 I was paragon 630 and we took #1 4-man being the first to grab GR53 and I was using this Arachyr build basically as soon as I could.

My entire journey was completed after 24hours which means I could solo GR70 with this build and I didn't even have that great set of items. Only 1 item was augmented and gems were rank 70 (Trapped, Stricken, Powerful). I definitly feel this build won't have any problems pushing up GR90 past 1k paragons and well rolled ancients+augmented items so if you want something that works for both solo and group you won't be disappointed!

The only "bad" part is when you go lower while having sub-optimal gear since if you swap to angry chicken too soon your dmg will be crap above T13 and your normal build won't have time to deal it's dmg before your group kills them but this is barely worth mentioning since it's not relevant for progression :)

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On 1/11/2017 at 4:23 AM, Arkpit said:

He also updated the guide the day before patch no longer listing the helltooth set as optional so I think he meant to take out it completely from the guide. Arachyr is more than enough to solo right now.

Ah, I see that would make sense. I hope he updates it to make that more clear, because it is kind of confusing in its current form, at least for me.  Thanks for that!  Really helped me understand what might have happened haha.

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4 hours ago, ScrublordWD said:

Ah, I see that would make sense. I hope he updates it to make that more clear, because it is kind of confusing in its current form, at least for me.  Thanks for that!  Really helped me understand what might have happened haha.

Calling @Deadset to the editing board! ;)

Might be an idea actually if this was the plan. The Arachyr seems to be great for soloing as well right now so don't see the need to have the small addition of the damage reduction from Wall of Death.

I'm assuming the entire reason for Helltooth option was to grant you the extra 25% dmg reduction from the spirit rune of Wall of Death and it very well might be the better option still when it comes to Hardcore play but the LoH on the cubed coil is really solid for Softcore solo play it seems and the 800% dmg buff to the set makes quicker work of the enemies!

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I believe the inclusion of the Helltooth for Solo is simply because it is far easier to maintain the damage reduction buff while moving, due to the fact that is stems from primary damage dealers rather than hex. You're less likely to have a huge amount of stacked mobs when playing solo, as opposed to in a group with a pull monk/barb supp.

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So I have been having a very good time with this build and just got a quick question in regards to a roll on the Traveler's Pledge: 

I got an Ancient one rolled with high CHC and CHD as well as Int and a bad stat to be re-rolled and now I've got to choose between a Socket and Fire%. In the guide it says Fire% is most important but is it really more important than having a gem socketed? It's hard for me to imagine this, and I can't seem to get the fire% to give me much of a difference in-game as to see just how much better it is compared to CHC in terms of my dps.

I really don't wanna roll for one again, as I only have so much time to spend with D3 and just wanted to see as to how much it will cripple me long-term to not have a fire% on my amulet :)

Thanks a lot and have a great month!

Vya

Edited by Vya

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14 hours ago, Vya said:

I really don't wanna roll for one again, as I only have so much time to spend with D3 and just wanted to see as to how much it will cripple me long-term to not have a fire% on my amulet :)

This is kinda complicated, but I'll do my best to keep it simple.

Technically, Elemental damage is probably better than socket in many situations. It is a flat buff to your main damage skills, it doesn't rely on anything else to buff/create the increase and it is always present. On the other hand, it is weaker than some gems (especially at higher gem levels), it can't be changed past a certain point (gems can be upgraded), it does nothing for toughness (defensive gems can be swapped in), and gems often have secondary effects that further amplify their power.

Basically, you need to choose based on what gem you're looking to put in, what level it is, etc. Most of the time, I would take socket at this point, though. In an ideal world, intellect is that stat that you roll off but that's obviously not possible here.

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This build is so squishy. I would said Helltooth>Jade>Arachyr for speed farming. The pushing build for Arachyr is squishy too but still manageable with Firebat LPH and channelling defensive mechanics. Has anyone actually manage to speed farming T13 with Arachyr?

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8 hours ago, Neogeo said:

This build is so squishy. I would said Helltooth>Jade>Arachyr for speed farming. The pushing build for Arachyr is squishy too but still manageable with Firebat LPH and channelling defensive mechanics. Has anyone actually manage to speed farming T13 with Arachyr?

Yes and no. I played Arachyr S9 and as long as you keep your dmg reduction up it's not that bad at all. I was soloing GR70 after 2 days with 630paragon without any augments and my weapon was not even ancient.

However, specifically talking speedfarming there is no point at all to speed T13, personally I've always felt it's much more worth your time to speedfarm T11 in terms of gained items over time. 

When you want to speedfarm, consider what you are after, is it GR keys? DBs? Because T11 gives 2 GR keys while T13 only provides a 25% chance to get a 3rd and DB wise you have 90% chance for a second while the T13 got again, 25% for a 3rd. So farming over time, the reduced speed through T11 always feels more worth than T13 so no need to push it if T13 feels rough.

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18 hours ago, Guest Varix said:

Should I use this build with WD - Monk duo?

In short, yes!

The why however is that if we look at your options, they are lacking more than the Arachyr is great.

Helltooth?
I've tried, I really have but playing solo is painful enough with AI and imagin that the gargantuans will be hitting something else most of the time while you and the monk tries to take a group out? I know you reposition gargs but it's a looooong CD and you would like to do it every 10 seconds to be fair...

Jade?
There isn't much group for Jade sadly and the reason is that every time your group kills stuff before you, you lose the Grave Injustice resets and Jade is heavily dependant on getting a full reset before moving on to the next target.

Zinumassa/Poison Darts?
This one works well in groups honestly but compared to Arachyr it falls short in dmg overall.

So it falls to Arachyr to be a solid damage dealer while not being dependant on resets or cooldowns which makes you relevant in any situation playing both solo and with others. There is a short ramp-up time to do your full dmg but other than that it's a solid group build!

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@Blainie

Just a thought but it feels misleading that this particular forumpost have the headline "Speedfarming with Angry Chicken" when the guide is mostly about and the only place to discuss the Arachyr Firebats build :)

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13 minutes ago, Arkpit said:

Yes and no. I played Arachyr S9 and as long as you keep your dmg reduction up it's not that bad at all. I was soloing GR70 after 2 days with 630paragon without any augments and my weapon was not even ancient.

However, specifically talking speedfarming there is no point at all to speed T13, personally I've always felt it's much more worth your time to speedfarm T11 in terms of gained items over time. 

When you want to speedfarm, consider what you are after, is it GR keys? DBs? Because T11 gives 2 GR keys while T13 only provides a 25% chance to get a 3rd and DB wise you have 90% chance for a second while the T13 got again, 25% for a 3rd. So farming over time, the reduced speed through T11 always feels more worth than T13 so no need to push it if T13 feels rough.

I don't solo and never solo. Solo make me bored. It doesn't help the majority player either play T10 or T13. I can't change the mindset of the mass. The conclusion based on my experience with all 3 build. If you rarely died with Arachyr, I bet you will survive even better with Helltooth and Jade. As I said, the speed build sacrificed a lot toughness items/skills, e.g. No Sacred Harvester, Vile Hive/Henri, Pirahan. All of these contribute to the loss of toughness. Helltooth and Jade speed build suffer less of those. 

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27 minutes ago, Neogeo said:

I don't solo and never solo. Solo make me bored. It doesn't help the majority player either play T10 or T13. I can't change the mindset of the mass. The conclusion based on my experience with all 3 build. If you rarely died with Arachyr, I bet you will survive even better with Helltooth and Jade. As I said, the speed build sacrificed a lot toughness items/skills, e.g. No Sacred Harvester, Vile Hive/Henri, Pirahan. All of these contribute to the loss of toughness. Helltooth and Jade speed build suffer less of those. 

Helltooth will honestly always be #1 for just raw power and survivability no matter what you do but for me personally I can't stand the incredibly bad AI of the gargantuans a lot of times just standing there after you re-summon and won't move until you go to a range where they need to follow.

Jade I feel is slower on the kills while speedfarming since you want to apply the dots and while I was running Arachyr I felt the chicken explosion + Firebats was more than enough.

The case with any version of "Angry Chicken" is that you really need to be overgeared to farm anything above T11 and most guides that say you can easily speedfarm with chicken assume you are paragon 1000 and gems at 70+ which most of the time just isn't the case for most regular players, certainly not for people like me that plays hardcore :)

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10 hours ago, UpsetDroid said:

Random question. If I'm speed farming with Wormwood, I now auto apply Locus Swam, what skill should I replace it with?

If you are not using the Vile Hive in your cube I would recommend that you keep the Locust skill but change the rune to Pestilence so you get the extra spread, otherwise just Wormwood is pretty slow to be useful.

You would be better off having Sacred Harvester or Furnace however for speedfarming depending on the need for survivability or extra dmg.

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On 23/01/2017 at 9:18 PM, Arkpit said:

Helltooth will honestly always be #1 for just raw power and survivability no matter what you do but for me personally I can't stand the incredibly bad AI of the gargantuans a lot of times just standing there after you re-summon and won't move until you go to a range where they need to follow.

Jade I feel is slower on the kills while speedfarming since you want to apply the dots and while I was running Arachyr I felt the chicken explosion + Firebats was more than enough.

The case with any version of "Angry Chicken" is that you really need to be overgeared to farm anything above T11 and most guides that say you can easily speedfarm with chicken assume you are paragon 1000 and gems at 70+ which most of the time just isn't the case for most regular players, certainly not for people like me that plays hardcore :)

Hex explosion damage barely put a dent on elite pack in T13 public match. You need Firebat. Sadly, Angry Chicken is mostly useful for moving around nowadays. I can farm T13 just fine with Helltooth and to some extend Jade. Helltooth or Jade probably not as fast as monk or wizard in public match but it's tolerable. Arachyr is just disaster for me. 

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On 16/01/2017 at 1:44 PM, Blainie said:

This is kinda complicated, but I'll do my best to keep it simple.

Technically, Elemental damage is probably better than socket in many situations. It is a flat buff to your main damage skills, it doesn't rely on anything else to buff/create the increase and it is always present. On the other hand, it is weaker than some gems (especially at higher gem levels), it can't be changed past a certain point (gems can be upgraded), it does nothing for toughness (defensive gems can be swapped in), and gems often have secondary effects that further amplify their power.

Basically, you need to choose based on what gem you're looking to put in, what level it is, etc. Most of the time, I would take socket at this point, though. In an ideal world, intellect is that stat that you roll off but that's obviously not possible here.

Sorry for the super late reply but thanks again for clarifying this properly :)

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I can't believe it took me this long to figure out how to speed run Arachyr Chicken. For those who keep dying with Manajuma, cast SW-Jaunt first and then followed by the rest of the setup. Start channeling before SW ended and you're golden. The build is quite resilient when you start channeling.

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20 hours ago, Neogeo said:

I can't believe it took me this long to figure out how to speed run Arachyr Chicken. For those who keep dying with Manajuma, cast SW-Jaunt first and then followed by the rest of the setup. Start channeling before SW ended and you're golden. The build is quite resilient when you start channeling.

Uhh yeah, I mean, I don't want to sound mean or anything but this very thread have gone through this issue and explained how to survive with the build in this manner at least 2 times.

You are however very much on the right track in your finding! This build can't walk up to things, you will die, this is how it's always been. You SW into things and start your rotation before it ends and you'll have to go very high up before you run into issues (Ofc still depending on your grp setup!)

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11 hours ago, Arkpit said:

Uhh yeah, I mean, I don't want to sound mean or anything but this very thread have gone through this issue and explained how to survive with the build in this manner at least 2 times.

You are however very much on the right track in your finding! This build can't walk up to things, you will die, this is how it's always been. You SW into things and start your rotation before it ends and you'll have to go very high up before you run into issues (Ofc still depending on your grp setup!)

Actually, I Chicken bump into elite pack and only then start SW. You can't SW in Chicken form. Casting SW before Chicken is useless as it only last 3 seconds. By the time that I bump into elite pack, SW was already over. Some more it may potentially put SW on CD when I need it. So no, I don't SW into elite pack. 

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20 hours ago, Neogeo said:

Actually, I Chicken bump into elite pack and only then start SW. You can't SW in Chicken form. Casting SW before Chicken is useless as it only last 3 seconds. By the time that I bump into elite pack, SW was already over. Some more it may potentially put SW on CD when I need it. So no, I don't SW into elite pack. 

Yeah with chicken you won't be much in SW, sorry for engages with Firebat I still kinda think about how to do it without the speedrunning part ^^ As long as things don't die before the SW is over because of the GI reset but again though, chicken will basically always be ready to go again.

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I feel it is misleading to have to come into the speedfarming thread to discuss solo arachyr GR, but whatever.

I must be doing something wrong with this build, because I'm just not getting the results that it is hyped for. First of all movement through a greater rift is incredibly slow. Yes once your dots are up and you can channel Firebats enemies die quickly; but before that can happen there is a large amount of setup you need to do, during which you are VERY vulnerable. Not only does Haunt only release one spirit at a time, but you have to squeeze in a Locust Swarm as well somewhere, all the while standing still in front of very dangerous enemies, and I'm sorry but Unity and Endless Walk and Spirit Vessel are not enough to survive this. Thus not only are you trying to dot everything, you also need to dodge missiles, run out of melee, try to get a Soul Harvest off, position as well as possible for Firebats... There's no way for you to group up enemies, so your Soul Harvest is very difficult to keep at 10 stacks; similarly, it feels like the small damage radius of Firebats goes to waste, with enemies running all over the screen and you going after them one by one. Then we get to the rift guardian, which you will almost never face with 10 stacks of Soul Harvest, so you're basically dead if he looks at you -- but now you need to run right up to his face to heroically channel Firebats for the win.

I'm honestly very disappointed at how this build plays, compared to the power, speed, survivability and ease of use of Helltooth Gargantuans. I don't see how this build is better in any of those ways. I don't have crappy gear either; I'm at paragon 750 and I have been working hard to get the best gear for this build. But like I said, I must be doing something wrong... any advice would be appreciated :)

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15 hours ago, UnspeakableElvis said:

I feel it is misleading to have to come into the speedfarming thread to discuss solo arachyr GR, but whatever.

I must be doing something wrong with this build, because I'm just not getting the results that it is hyped for. First of all movement through a greater rift is incredibly slow. Yes once your dots are up and you can channel Firebats enemies die quickly; but before that can happen there is a large amount of setup you need to do, during which you are VERY vulnerable. Not only does Haunt only release one spirit at a time, but you have to squeeze in a Locust Swarm as well somewhere, all the while standing still in front of very dangerous enemies, and I'm sorry but Unity and Endless Walk and Spirit Vessel are not enough to survive this. Thus not only are you trying to dot everything, you also need to dodge missiles, run out of melee, try to get a Soul Harvest off, position as well as possible for Firebats... There's no way for you to group up enemies, so your Soul Harvest is very difficult to keep at 10 stacks; similarly, it feels like the small damage radius of Firebats goes to waste, with enemies running all over the screen and you going after them one by one. Then we get to the rift guardian, which you will almost never face with 10 stacks of Soul Harvest, so you're basically dead if he looks at you -- but now you need to run right up to his face to heroically channel Firebats for the win.

I'm honestly very disappointed at how this build plays, compared to the power, speed, survivability and ease of use of Helltooth Gargantuans. I don't see how this build is better in any of those ways. I don't have crappy gear either; I'm at paragon 750 and I have been working hard to get the best gear for this build. But like I said, I must be doing something wrong... any advice would be appreciated :)

You need to be in SW when you're casting LS and Haunt and you only need to cast LS once. The small radious of Firebat did hurt the build especially when the build can't fit in Piranha. The lack of SH stack when facing RG is also a problem. But it's the fastest killing build for WD. Garg slowdown in four mans T13 unless you are heavily inflated with Int. Jade is basically the same story with FB when facing RG.   FB only shrine when you have a puller in your team. 

Edited by Neogeo

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