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Heroes of the Storm Li-Ming

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This thread is for comments about our Li-Ming build guide for Heroes of the Storm.

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I like your Li Ming building guides but after the last patch you must update them!

 

It has been, it has been. Full guide in the works.

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temporal flux definitely outclasses tal rasha's after the nerf, it helps you land missiles in the seekerball (balanced) build, it functions basically as a long range, 2.5 second root (that can be blinked out of) for utility in teamfights, and has good value overall, while 10% ability power isn't really that worth it now

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temporal flux definitely outclasses tal rasha's after the nerf, it helps you land missiles in the seekerball (balanced) build, it functions basically as a long range, 2.5 second root (that can be blinked out of) for utility in teamfights, and has good value overall, while 10% ability power isn't really that worth it now

Definitely agree. In fact HotsLogs shows a better win rate when Temporal Flux is taken. The amount of times this talent has helped me single handed-ly turn around a match simple by slowing enemies enough to be killed either by myself or someone from my team is countless.

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Tal Rasha being listed as best is an artifact of pre-nerf, when it used to yield 20%. I changed the recommendation to Temporal Flux some time last week after experimenting some more.

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for the love god,odin,allah,buddha and the spaghetti monster pls delete the Teleport All-In Build: high risk high reward area of effect burst it is good only when the enemy team is crap and the "REWARD" part is so small it is not justifying the danger it puts the poor and SQUISHY liming in.

I am asking from anybody who is reading this message too not go for this build and go any other build ,likeOrb or Missiles Build which does a lot more Damage with a lot less risk involved .     

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for the love god,odin,allah,buddha and the spaghetti monster pls delete the Teleport All-In Build: high risk high reward area of effect burst it is good only when the enemy team is crap and the "REWARD" part is so small it is not justifying the danger it puts the poor and SQUISHY liming in.

I am asking from anybody who is reading this message too not go for this build and go any other build ,likeOrb or Missiles Build which does a lot more Damage with a lot less risk involved .     

 

Teleport build is actually the most popular build as of today, so I'm not sure what to tell you there. Even if it wasn't, it would see niche play versus Murky and TLV.

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you should go for tal rashas elements with the teleport build. much better than upgraded ult.

 

and don't mind this guy (kaltkrieg). he has been posting this comment on every single hots related site. he clearly does not have a clue.

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you should go for tal rashas elements with the teleport build. much better than upgraded ult.

 

and don't mind this guy (kaltkrieg). he has been posting this comment on every single hots related site. he clearly does not have a clue.

 

I'm having a hard time deciding with Tal'rasha. It's just 10% damage under perfect conditions - not a bad amount at all, but I feel that the 40% slow is just always there for you. I feel much stronger when that talent hits, and hate having to deal with it myself.

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I could debate with you about the Mirrorball vs Fireflies thing when accompanied with Seeker as it could:
- Make it easier to land Q
- More sustained damage overall
- If aim correctly most of the time, synergies better than Mirror with Seeker as it can proc Seeker too, though less reliable.
But it also have:
- Less burst damage
- Not as good kiting potential as you need to turn back every 2 seconds to cast
- Doesn't synergies well with Tal'rasha or Critical Mass
But If you have played her for some time you should be used to landing all 3 projectiles so with Fireflies makes it even easier right? Since I have trouble landing all 5 projectiles and because they start at the farther end of the ability and they travel slower by comparison, so I tend to swing to Fireflies when I go for a more kiting-favored build, but I still go for Mirrorball if I need the burst potential. In summary, you shouldn't just flat out saying that Fireflies are not as good as Mirrorball in all scenarios. 

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On 4/22/2016 at 4:45 AM, Guest VirusLove said:

I could debate with you about the Mirrorball vs Fireflies thing when accompanied with Seeker as it could:
- Make it easier to land Q
- More sustained damage overall
- If aim correctly most of the time, synergies better than Mirror with Seeker as it can proc Seeker too, though less reliable.
But it also have:
- Less burst damage
- Not as good kiting potential as you need to turn back every 2 seconds to cast
- Doesn't synergies well with Tal'rasha or Critical Mass
But If you have played her for some time you should be used to landing all 3 projectiles so with Fireflies makes it even easier right? Since I have trouble landing all 5 projectiles and because they start at the farther end of the ability and they travel slower by comparison, so I tend to swing to Fireflies when I go for a more kiting-favored build, but I still go for Mirrorball if I need the burst potential. In summary, you shouldn't just flat out saying that Fireflies are not as good as Mirrorball in all scenarios. 

It's a hard call, but when cooldown resets come into play, I'd say that burst damage is king. Let's have a simplified example of what I mean: 

Say, 

Mirrorball: 5 damage every 3s.
Fireflies: 3 damage every 2s.

The dps is similar (1.666 repeating versus 1.5).

However, when your cooldowns reset due to Critical Mass, cooldowns are no longer part of the equation. As such, the ability that deals the most damage (despite having a longer cooldown) ends up having a significantly higher potential. Of course, you could argue that Fireflies makes it easier to land kills, but again, this is not true when crowd control becomes part of the question as well.

Anyway, they're both good; I just think Mirrorball has more potential given Li-Ming's nature.

On 6/4/2016 at 9:05 PM, Stan said:

There's a typo in our guide: "instnatly" instead of instantly.

oh no! I'll get on it instnatly.

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Really great guide, though there is one point I think should be included with regard to the Seeker talent: PvE. Seeker will trigger on merc camps, bosses, and even structures, and since it's quite easy to hit the AI with skillshots that's an almost guaranteed damage boost against all non-player controlled characters (even without Mirrorball). I find myself going Seeker on maps that heavily favor single target PvE (such as Garden of Terror, Battlefield of Eternity, and Sky Temple), or versus player controlled targets that are big and thus easier to hit (heroes like Azmodan, or the Dragon Knight/Garden Terror), or sometimes when we lack a good siege specialist.

I mostly think you should include that info because the first time I played Li Ming I used this guide and thought "why would you ever pick seeker? It's tricky to land all missiles on a hero with no mobility at all, never mind more mobile heroes like Illidin, Greymane, or Li Ming herself." After playing her a lot I've realized its true strength is siege potential/map objectives, where it outshines the Orb sometimes depending on build. It doesn't melt creepwaves as good, but its damage to structures is fantastic.

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On 8/29/2016 at 5:48 PM, Mongrel said:

Really great guide, though there is one point I think should be included with regard to the Seeker talent: PvE. Seeker will trigger on merc camps, bosses, and even structures, and since it's quite easy to hit the AI with skillshots that's an almost guaranteed damage boost against all non-player controlled characters (even without Mirrorball). I find myself going Seeker on maps that heavily favor single target PvE (such as Garden of Terror, Battlefield of Eternity, and Sky Temple), or versus player controlled targets that are big and thus easier to hit (heroes like Azmodan, or the Dragon Knight/Garden Terror), or sometimes when we lack a good siege specialist.

I mostly think you should include that info because the first time I played Li Ming I used this guide and thought "why would you ever pick seeker? It's tricky to land all missiles on a hero with no mobility at all, never mind more mobile heroes like Illidin, Greymane, or Li Ming herself." After playing her a lot I've realized its true strength is siege potential/map objectives, where it outshines the Orb sometimes depending on build. It doesn't melt creepwaves as good, but its damage to structures is fantastic.


That's a very good point, thank you. I just tend to consider her level 7 talents so bloated that it's hard to make room for Seeker, but that's still a solid comment.

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48 minutes ago, Farbas said:

I personnally use that build https://www.icy-veins.com/heroes/talent-calculator/li-ming#24.0!1221221
I try to focus on mid range combat. Dominance can be taken at level 4 if you feel you need it and I'm currently trying to see if Tal'Rasha is viable with this build. What do you think?

I think it looks good. The one thing is that I would almost put Illusionist as the standard than Glass Cannon. As you said, it's a mid-range build but if you do get ganked hard, Illusionist would have a better chance of saving you. I guess what I'm saying is put the safe one as the "usual" but of course take Glass Cannon if you feel that the risk isn't there. 

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On 3/23/2017 at 11:34 PM, MurkyFelix said:

I think it looks good. The one thing is that I would almost put Illusionist as the standard than Glass Cannon. As you said, it's a mid-range build but if you do get ganked hard, Illusionist would have a better chance of saving you. I guess what I'm saying is put the safe one as the "usual" but of course take Glass Cannon if you feel that the risk isn't there. 

100% going to agree on this. Especially with picks like Valeera available, Li needs that extra TP.

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It seemed weird for me how Valeera is a counter to Li Ming (as 1v1 I tend to kill Valeera off easily) but if you don't go calamity build I guess she is.

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13 hours ago, Guest Chris said:

It seemed weird for me how Valeera is a counter to Li Ming (as 1v1 I tend to kill Valeera off easily) but if you don't go calamity build I guess she is.

If the Valeera player is inexperienced or spends most of the time out of cloak, you shouldn't be facing issues playing against them. If the Valeera player is experienced and knows how to quickly burst you down, it can sometimes be difficult to even get out of the CC before dying. 

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On 20. 5. 2017 at 4:56 PM, Guest Soul said:

Why has the teleport build been removed? Is it no longer viable?

It was considered subpar during the rework of the guide and was removed. The guides that are currently up should give you a higher winrate once you get used to them.

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