Sign in to follow this  
Followers 0
Blainie

overwatch Overwatch Blue Posts: Win-Loss Ratios and Support Medals

1 post in this topic

16454-overwatch-blue-posts-win-loss-rati

Jeff Kaplan has been setting a fantastic example for others to follow in his attempt to keep on top of all the feedback the community provides. Check out some of his latest posts on the Overwatch forums, where he discusses the feedback he has received concerning win-loss ratios, as well as the introduction of a new medal for supports.


The first post is a pretty huge one, in which Kaplan goes through some pretty amazingly well thought-out points. The initial OP posted concerning his win-loss ratio of 18-32 since the stats on Beta were reset. He stated that it was beginning to get demoralising, since he simply couldn't win the majority of his games. Kaplan responded really well, walking the readers through his thought processes and what was being done, as well as why it was being done in that way. Check out the post below:

Blizzard Icon Jeff Kaplan on Win-Loss Ratios

+ Show
Hi Koot,

We really appreciate the feedback. For what it's worth, joining a match late should not result in a loss. If it does, this is a bug and will be fixed.

There are a lot of converging factors that here at work. It's a very complicated problem. Most people believe that putting people in matches together is a very scientific process (and parts of it are). But there is so much going on psychologically and emotionally that at times, matchmaking has more to do with perception than anything else.

Ideally, all players would have a 50/50 win loss ratio. I think intellectually everyone gets that. It sounds very reasonable. Or if I said, we're going to have two teams play 2 games. Team 1 will win the first game and Team 2 will win the second game. That sounds pretty balanced. I don't think there is disagreement on this part of the discussion.

Where it gets more tricky is when you as an individual decide to play 500 matches over the course of many weeks. If we were sitting over coffee and I said to you, hey you're going lose 250 matches of Overwatch in the next few weeks, suddenly that sounds pretty lousy. Losing half of your games is not what most players want. Players want to win more often than they lose (this is why we love making PvE stuff so much -- plus we don't let our bots post on the forums...)

Another factor that comes into play here is streaks. If we assume that 50/50 is a good win/loss ratio and you happen to have some good winning streaks it inevitably means that some loss streaks are going to happen. Psychologically, we tend to take note and remember the loss streaks more than the win streaks. Yesterday, there was a beta tester who started a thread citing that they were upset because they had lost 4 games in a row. It was a good thread and I appreciated the player's point of view (hearing their perception is important to us). But it also made me think about the psychology of winning vs. losing. I haven't ever seen someone post in these forums that the matchmaker is broken because they just won 4 games in a row...
 
Now, to provide a little more substance (other than my subjective rambling) we do actively break up matches when we detect players have been losing too much. We don't do anything to prevent a group or team from winning too much, however. Losing streaks are bad and ideally we could minimize these. We try to put a person who has lost many times in a row against players he/she is more likely to beat. We can't always guarantee that win, however.
 
Another compounding problem we have is what heroes players decide to play. All of us are better and worse at some heroes. It's impossible for the game to know that this is the round that you decided to start learning D.Va on. The match is already in progress by the time you might switch to her. Many times we analyze what players have perceived to be an "unfair" match and realize that the skill levels were actually very close but one team played their "best" heroes while the other team played their "worst" heroes.
 
Overwatch is a very team oriented game. There are not a lot of shooters that demand as much team coordination as Overwatch does. This is what makes Overwatch special but also can cause frustration for players queuing by themselves. Obviously, we want to support solo queuing. And we have a lot of ideas how to make it better. But it's never going to be as consistently fun as playing with others who you know and trust. Think about going out on a Friday night. Imagine going out with your 5 closest friends and doing whatever it is you think is fun. Now imagine you asked me to find 5 people for you to go out with tonight. I could be very systematic, strategic and scientific in finding those people for you. Maybe I look for people of similar age, demographic... people with similar interests. What are the odds that you're going to have fun with the 5 strangers I just picked for you? Personally, I have no clue. It could be an amazing time or it could be a disaster. If it's a disaster, you're going to blame me and my methodology for picking. That's the situation we're in here.
 
Another factor weighing in (and one that will cause controversy and ire when I mention it) is that we are in a low population scenario right now. This is by design. We're not looking to support a large population until Open Beta. Lower population situations mean that we're often "looser" in the skill banding when it comes to matchmaking. We have a protected "newbie" pool but it becomes less protected with fewer people (not to mention when people decide to form groups of varying skill and experience levels). Things will smooth out quite a bit once we have more players to match from.
 
I was a very active player in the Hearthstone Alpha as well as Closed Beta. Early on, I was having fun and loving the game. But later, I could no longer win anymore. Hearthstone was my first CCG so I was still learning. I stopped having fun in the small pool because it was full of sharks. But fast forward to today and I am usually somewhere between rank 7-12 at the end of as season (my highest is 4). So as an "above average" player the alpha was rough for me but the live game, with lots of players playing is extremely fun for me. Looking at your stats, Koot, you're a very good player. You're above average and in about the top 25% of the beta player base. So it's not you and some lack of skill.
 
We're going to make some tweaks soon to some things. We're going to look again at Groups and how we match them up. We want to be careful to NOT discourage grouping (we've seen this happen in all of our multiplayer games -- if you're too strict, players feel like grouping is bad and they prefer to play solo). Earlier in the beta we were too strict on grouping and players stopped grouping. We loosened up but we think by too much. We're also going to look at newbies (players with less than 20 matches) and player levels and see if there's something we can do there. If nothing else than to help with the perception of "why did I get matched with this guy who doesn't know what he is doing". Also, we're doing a big pass of re-flowing the new user experience. Right now, the game dumps new players into Quick Play too quickly. They should be doing the tutorial, practicing in the range and playing vs. AI before coming into quick play. We think this will help some too.
 
I know players want more information than this. But like I said, matchmaking can be extremely complicated. I hope you understand how seriously we take our matchmaking ability. We are constantly working on it. It's also really rough because we do experiments while we're in beta that we would not do in a live environment. I know this can be unpleasant for you and cause some strife for that, I am sorry. But we do appreciate you helping to make the game better.
 
--jeffrey

(source)

In the same thread as above, Kaplan noted that the team has plans to introduce a different system for "backfills" than is currently in place. In the beta currently, if you join a game late and lose, you will be given a loss, regardless of if you join with 5 seconds to spare. The team instead hopes to prevent this from happening, while still granting you a win if you join late and end up winning the game.

Blizzard Icon Kaplan on Backfills

+ Show
Just as a quick update, we have not yet fixed the issue that's causing "backfills" to get losses. In an upcoming patch, if you are backfilled into a losing match, you will not take a loss for it. On the flip side, if you backfill and win, we will give you the win.

(source)

The next blue post from Kaplan gave us new insight into the statistics surrounding the ever-complained about Temple of Anubis. The OP posted concerning the choke point on the map in which the defense team can often hold indefinitely, unless you employ a solid strategy and efficient teamwork. A patch was implemented recently that changed elements of the map, so Kaplan posted statistics relating to games played since Tuesday.

Blizzard Icon Statistics on Temple of Anubis

+ Show
For perspective...

As of Tuesday's patch Temple of Anubis is won 49.2% of the time by attackers and 50.8% of the time by defenders.

The first point falls to attackers 76.9% of the time.

(source)

The last post coming from Kaplan was a short, but extremely welcome one. It looks like the final blow medal will be replaced with a support-based medal, in order to provide some more recognition for the non-damage dealers.

Blizzard Icon New Medal

+ Show
We just replaced the Final Blow medal with Healing Done. Coming soon(ish)

(source)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  
Followers 0

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

  • Similar Content

    • By Starym
      It's here! The Year of the Rooster/Lunar/Chinese New Year begins and we get new skins and, more importantly, a Capture the flag game mode! It's a Brawl and Jeff Kaplan took time to explain it in detail in a new dev update video below. You can also check out the amazing "Winston's Journey to the West tapestry at the bottom of the post. We also have a gallery of all the skins on our facebook page.
      Blizzard (source)
      Gather your family and friends, heroes, and get ready to ring in the Year of the Rooster!
      Overwatch's Lunar New Year celebrations have begun and we hope this seasonal event brings you happiness, prosperity, and (most importantly) lots of fun. For the next three weeks, players will have the chance to collect over 100 commemorative cosmetic items, enjoy a firefight beneath some fireworks on Lijiang Tower, and work together to capture the flag in Overwatch's newest brawl mode.
      Good Luck and Great Fortune Await
      Starting today, our customaryLoot Boxes have been replaced with our lucky Lunar Loot Boxes—and they’re packed with one heck of a (primal) punch, including new skins like Palanquin D.Va and Wukong Winston!
      As with previous events, Lunar Loot Boxes can be earned or purchased, and each will contain at least one item from our Year of the Rooster collection—including player icons, sprays, victory poses, emotes, highlight intros, skins, and more. While the contents of each seasonal Loot Box are random, you can unlock a variety of these customization options in the Hero Gallery for credits throughout the event’s duration.
       
      Once you've unlocked an item, it will be yours forever, which means you can celebrate the Year of the Rooster all year-round. The collection will return to the vault on February 13, however, so be sure to fire up your favorite gaming machine and see what good fortune might await before it’s too late!
      Capture the Rooster
      No event would be complete without a first-class brawl, and for the Year of the Rooster we took a cue from tradition and are introducing an Overwatch take on a true competitive gaming staple: Capture the Flag.
      In Capture the Rooster, teams will face off on Lijiang Tower, attempting to secure the enemy flag while the opposing team does the same. In this fast-paced brawl, players will need to get creative with their team compositions as they attempt to construct a lineup that’s built for offensive speed and defensive stability.
      Let the Celebration Begin
      We’ll also be ringing in the Lunar New Year over on our social media channels, so be sure to follow us on Twitter, Facebook, and Instagram for some extra luck—and don't forget to keep an eye on playoverwatch.com to stay up to date with the latest game news!

      Overwatch’s Year of the Rooster is live RIGHT NOW on PC, PlayStation 4, and Xbox One. We wish you every success this season and can’t wait to see you in-game!
       
      Blizzard (source)
      To celebrate Lunar New Year, we're settling in for a bedtime story beloved by people around the world—and at least one imaginative young ape from the moon. Captured in a breathtaking tapestry illustrated by SHISHIO, Winston's Journey to the West recounts one of China's oldest and most revered pieces of literature through the eyes of everyone’s favorite gorilla scientist.
      From a very young age, Winston showed limitless curiosity for the universe around him. But even though he was fascinated by the wonders of science, he also had a fondness for stories, particularly the tales that were passed down from generation to generation.
      One day, on Lunar New Year, Dr. Harold Winston, the lunar colony researcher who cared deeply for the young ape's education and training, challenged him to read an epic story that was centuries old but beloved by billions. Journey to the West is a sweeping tale that soars between a mythological Earth and the glorious heavens, portraying demons, gods, and heroes clashing in mighty battles.
      The gorilla's imagination was captured by the heroic monk Tang Sanzang and his ragtag group of disciples' quest for redemption… like the banished marshal Zhu Bajie, the old general Shā Wùjìng, and of course, the mischievous Monkey King, Sun Wukong.
      Every Lunar New Year, Winston is reminded of his younger days. Growing up in the lunar colony had its trials, but it also had its treasures. Exploring this story with his mentor will always be one of his most cherished memories.
      May happiness and prosperity find you in the Year of the Rooster! 
      To learn more about our in-game festivities, click here. 

       
    • By Starym
      The new Overwatch event is coming tomorrow and we already have pretty good idea of what it'll be, with Blizzard's official announcement and now  the leak of the launch video as well! New skins for not only Mei and D.Va, but Reinhardt, Roadhog, Winston and Zenyatta too, with possibly more to come!
       
      There was also another ad that got leaked earlier that the video confirms, with some sweet, sweet new Reinhardt, Roadhog, Winston and Zenyatta skins! Just one day to go.

      And here are the official two videos announcing the event, for good measure:
    • By Shine
      Heya all,
      I know @Cablenerd already made a post for this but since he's currently not very active I'm (partly) taking over some of his recruiting.
       
      Our clan is called the Marauders and we are working heavily on our overwatch department. We are currently starting to form teams and will be having practice nights to work on general tactics/knowledge/skill in overwatch. Once a month we will hold an in-clan tourney between different teams in 6v6 as well as 3v3 and 1v1 situations.
      Obviously we are looking for YOU to join our ranks.
      If you are interested hop over to the website of awesomeness and submit an application. Make sure to mention me (LORDmeSH1NE) as your reference if you do.
      Do you have any questions or remarks? Don't hesitate to comment here or send me a message.
      I hope to more people coming in so we as a clan can be healthy and prosperous.
      Make sure to smile at least once every day. (especially after killing symmetra)
      Shine
    • By Starym
      At least two new skins are coming, for Mei and D.Va and we get to see a sneak peek of them.
      The Year of the Rooster is coming to OW and Blizzard have started teasing it already, if you can call straight up announcing the release date a tease. We don't know much more about it other than it will feature at least two new skins for Mei and D.Va, but it seems likely it'll be on par with all the other events so far and have more than just that. If not, it could be the first of a new type of smaller-scale theme event that comes around more frequently (or only for very special occasions), which isn't a bad idea either. In any case, here are the two new skins and teaser videos, courtesy of the official OW twitter and its Korean counterpart:
      Meanwhile, Jeff Kaplan is set to deliver a keynote speech at the 2017 DICE Summit titled "Overwatch: How Blizzard Created a Hopeful Vision of the Future".
    • By Starym
      Dev goals for Sombra, Roadhog's hook, D.Va and Ana thoughts, how the PTR is not just for community feedback on the changes, why there's no PTR on consoles and more.
      The big Roadhog and D.Va changes on the PTR recently, as you'd expect caused a civilized, calm and measured discourse in the OW community, without any overreactions or hyperbole whatsoever. So mild was the reaction that Jeff Kaplan felt the need to restate the purpose of the PTR and that changes done there aren't necessarily the end of the world. Of Overwatch.
      The actual details go into other purposes of the PTR other than community feedback on changes, goals or Sombra, Roadhog's hook, how D.Va is doing "too much" right now, small Ana changes, why there isn't a PTR on consoles and more: