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Taldryx

I Don't Know What To Do :(

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So great to see someone open about their struggles and getting help in a game that has more than its fair share of intolerant, impatient, arrogant and plain rude players.

I heal on a my alt .- a resto Shaman - mainly because my guild raid group struggles for healers from time to time and it helps if someone can step in. I am a poor healer but I reckon it is the hardest discipline in the game. I enjoy the challenge of trying to get better but in truth I have more fun on my hunter.

It does take time to learn all those spells and techniques and how best to use them and unfortunately speed of reaction puts us older players at something of a disadvantage.

Please persist the game needs players like you and it is fantastic to see the support you are getting. Good luck.

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Oh believe you me, I've encountered my fair of rude players. Hell, I'm one of 'em. But one of my past guilds had a tendency to blame eeeeeeeeeeeeeeverything on the healers (me) so I try to help out.

As for your questions. Raid starts taking a lot of damage. My go-to spells are Binding Heal, and (inner focus macro'd) PoH. I don't feel that Binding Heal is particularly expensive; it is in fact quite mana efficient. More-so than Greater Heal, in fact. I will continue attonement healing if I deem it appropriate, for example raid takes a ton of damage during Ji-Kun's Quills, but after that damage stops for the raid so I can continue attonement healing and get the raid up that way.

Oh, Power Infusion. I knew I was forgetting something! If appropriate, try to have this ability available for when you need to spirit shell the raid (example: Jin Rohk's thunderstorm, or Megaera's Rampage.)

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It's worth noting, all of the healing specs are viable. You shouldn't feel forced to play Disc just because it's the flavor of the month (it is). It's just that Holy Priests play differently than they used to, and the playstyle is different depending on what role they are being asked to fill. If you are having difficulty adapting and thinking on the fly, then it will be to everyone's benefit if you know exactly what you should be doing, can optimize for that task, and don't have to divide your attention so much. All of your logs were all over the place, and I couldn't tell exactly what you were supposed to be doing. On Horridon in 10-man, for example, one healer should be 100% dedicated to the tank who has Horridon, one should heal the add tank and spot heal where needed, and the third should focus exclusively on raid healing. If you have three healers jumping at the same target, you get massive overhealing, and more than anything else, that's what I'm seeing in the logs.

Personally, I would have you try tank healing, because Holy Priests are excellent at just healing a single target all day long, and the rotation is quite simple. I know, in theory the worst performing healer shouldn't be entrusted to the tank, but I think the problem is more an issue of not having a clearly defined role, and clearly defined way to get results, than it is about just being bad.

Tank healing as Holy would mean that you forego using spells like CoH or PoH in favor of the basics - Renew refreshed by HW:S, Heal/GH and PoM. You won't have the same extensive toolbox as if you were tank healing in Disc, but the improved throughput from your Chakra stance can go a long way towards making up for it.

Anyway, just to sum up, a good raid leader should be able to make use of you. You have the spirit to try and adapt and improve, and you've certainly got more experience healing than a lot of healers I see in raids. Clearly defined assignments that play to each raid member's strengths go a long way towards getting the most out of everyone, and it's the raid leader's responsibility to decide how best to use each member's strengths to the raid's benefit.

Edited by Tarazet
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http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/lubaq731kp5iq38o/

Hopefully that is an accurate link to last night's Open Raid partial log of Empress kill.

My Personal Assessment of My Performance (this is without looking at log but from memory):

1. I still have too much downtime where I am not healing.

Reason: Disc has not yet become "second nature". I occasionally get flustered, have to stop for a moment and take a breath and re-focus. Having said that, I would like to mention that last night people were not picking up the Orange Goo to make the Crystal, so I chose to do that a number of times, even though I realized it would effect my healing. Raid's health was pretty stable when I did, and I figured team work is always best.

2. Still working out the kinks of when to Atonement heal and when not to

Comment: Last night at first I would Atonement then shift to "normal" healing using Inner focus, Power Infusion, Spirit Shell and spam PoH right before the puddles started blowing up. I was slow on the changeover. Eventually when my friend Weelass joined the raid, I decided to see what would happen if I just straight out Atonement healed the whole time and didn't freak when I saw the raid's health going down. Surprisingly, it appeared that this method worked very well (although appearances can be deceiving).

Any comments are appreciated! I am a work in progress and you all have been extremely helpful to me Posted Image

Edited by Taldryx

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Based on that log, I can see that you've settled into a raid-healing role in Disc. That's good, it's more focused and when you were healing, your performance was good as evidenced by a decent HPS. However, I have some comments to make.

- Atonement is great during periods of low damage, since it will help to keep people topped off from light incidental damage. As a raid healer, you should only be using it during those times. On the other hand, you should be doing it all the time during those periods if possible. Press your buttons. If you used all your mana-gaining cooldowns plus your Potion of Focus religiously and still ran out, get more Spirit. It's not rocket science. It's good that it was your #1 source of healing, as long as it was used during the correct parts of the fight. Personally, when I play my Priest in Disc spec, I never use Atonement to heal, just as a personal choice. I get the stacks for Archangel by using Holy Fire or Solace whenever it's about to come off cooldown. Even so, there are places for pure Atonement healing, such as times when the boss is taking increased damage. The last phase of Horridon can be done with nothing but Smite spam.

- Prayer of Mending should be used every time it is off cooldown, preferably on a target that is guaranteed to take damage like a tank (even if you are raid healing). Don't be afraid to overwrite it if you don't think the target it jumped to will take any damage.

- Use Spirit Shell + Prayer of Healing before any abilities that will cause high raid damage - Overloads, Ji-Kun's quills, Lightning Storms, etc. As Disc, you are a proactive healer. You won't be as strong in the spec if you miss your window to load up the shields. By comparison, Holy is a very reactive style of healing and is good at making health bars go right after the damage has already happened.

- Use Inner Focus on cooldown, with Prayer of Healing. There's no special benefit to waiting for Spirit Shell other than reducing your overall output.

Edited by Tarazet
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Thank you for your comments, Tarazet. You actually made me realize that I am just doing what I was taught to do and not really truly understanding the spells and the structuring you can create with them. Excellent revelation! I don't just want to Parrot others, I really want to understand my class/spec. So back I go to studying my spells!

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Glyph of PW:Shield? ./cringe

Penance twice on players, I wouldn't have used it even that once but I'm sure you had reason. Don't use Heal ever.

He's talking about holy being a viable spec, and maybe it is in 25 man. I doubt it, but I haven't been in a 25m group for a very long time, and I hear that 25m are tuned very differenatly than 10m. 10m is another story but I'll focus on the matter at hand.

I'll agree with PoM on cooldown.

Penance should be used during periods of low, no low-medium damage. If the boss is gonna continue hitting the raid hard, you probably should have already used spirit shell + PoH anyway. There are always exceptions, however. When my guild was progressing Council of Elders, I frequently had to step off attonement due to the ludicrous amount of damage going out (this before we stuck a warrior on Zul full time.) And let's not forget Iron Qon fire dog phase >_> BUT. When I'm not attonement healing I still try to stick to mana efficient heals (glyphed Binding Heal, or PoH.)

Refusal to attonement heal at all is foolish, and throwing away dps for no good reason. Don't smite if you feel strongly about it, but Holy Fire/Solace + Penance at the VERY least should be thrown at the boss on CD (when raid isn't in bad shape obv.) Less emphasis for this on 25m, but point still stands.

PoM + innter focus on cd I'm not sure I agree with, but definately throw it out as soon as you have an excuse.

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Glyph of PW:Shield? ./cringe

Penance twice on players, I wouldn't have used it even that once but I'm sure you had reason. Don't use Heal ever.

He's talking about holy being a viable spec, and maybe it is in 25 man. I doubt it, but I haven't been in a 25m group for a very long time, and I hear that 25m are tuned very differenatly than 10m. 10m is another story but I'll focus on the matter at hand.

I'll agree with PoM on cooldown.

Penance should be used during periods of low, no low-medium damage. If the boss is gonna continue hitting the raid hard, you probably should have already used spirit shell + PoH anyway. There are always exceptions, however. When my guild was progressing Council of Elders, I frequently had to step off attonement due to the ludicrous amount of damage going out (this before we stuck a warrior on Zul full time.) And let's not forget Iron Qon fire dog phase >_> BUT. When I'm not attonement healing I still try to stick to mana efficient heals (glyphed Binding Heal, or PoH.)

Refusal to attonement heal at all is foolish, and throwing away dps for no good reason. Don't smite if you feel strongly about it, but Holy Fire/Solace + Penance at the VERY least should be thrown at the boss on CD (when raid isn't in bad shape obv.) Less emphasis for this on 25m, but point still stands.

PoM + innter focus on cd I'm not sure I agree with, but definately throw it out as soon as you have an excuse.

It will be best to use Penance on the enemy if you are raid healing. It scales better with spell power as a nuke than as a heal, so if you use it on an enemy NPC, it is a more efficient spell, provided you can't benefit fully from the Grace buff it applies to a player when used as a direct heal. If you are tank healing, it must be used on your tank. It quickly applies 3 stacks of Grace to a target if used as a direct heal, so it will be your opener and used on cooldown. (Worth noting here that you can only have Grace on one target at a time.)

If you are raid healing, there is a time and a place for Atonement, but there is still room for other and equally viable playstyles. In the end, you're not a DPS. You're a healer, and if your group doesn't have enough DPS, then they should work on improving their DPS. Your job is to keep people alive with whatever means necessary. There are times when Atonement is the best solution, and times when it isn't. If you are tank healing, it's obviously impossible to use Atonement beyond the bare minimum of Holy Fire so that you can keep Archangel up. You're going to be using those dreaded spells, Heal and Greater Heal, as well.. except that you have to jump through a lot more hoops than a Holy Priest just to come close to their throughput. Plus, they have a number of "oh crap" buttons that other healers wish they had.

Edited by Tarazet
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Plus, they have a number of "oh crap" buttons that other healers wish they had.

I still /sigh when I look at the empty space to the left of my HoH where my DH used to be in Cata.

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Can you tell me what her best fight was? Like I'm just seeing the same thing now. Active time should go up and just spell usage probably needs better selections.

Less prayer of mendings... Less flash heals as top spell..

The top spells should be a mix of

Atonement

Spirit Shell

Divine Aegis

Power Word Shield

Prayer of Healing/Heal

Tier 60 talent

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Can you tell me what her best fight was? Like I'm just seeing the same thing now. Active time should go up and just spell usage probably needs better selections.

Less prayer of mendings... Less flash heals as top spell..

The top spells should be a mix of

Atonement

Spirit Shell

Divine Aegis

Power Word Shield

Prayer of Healing/Heal

Tier 60 talent

Fight 18 was probably our closest and best sample you can find, she was assigned to heal the druid tank.

according to the disc heal guide wouldn't she be using more PoM, the tank is located right along side the melee for most of this fight.

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PoM is fine, but she is focusing too much on it. She needs to use her other abilities dependant on the damage going out to the raid. If she's assigned to tank heal, she should do that, but healing the raid (or spirit shell/ bubble blanket) is also something she needs to do.

Like, to me, it seems she is sitting there waiting for you to take damage, and not doing much else. She should be DPSing the boss with atonement, throwing PW:S, PoM's, etc.

There is going to always be overlapping on healing assignments. Thats how healers help each other and help the raid in general, but if the tank starts taking heavy damage, she should be focused on him (as well as the other healers if raid is stable).

I'm pretty sure I can honestly say, that her total throughput is because of not playing properly. I think she needs to experiment more with spell usage and what spells to use with what damage.

Little tricks like Inner focus + PoH to bubble the whole group, or Inner Focus + Greater heal for a big DA on the tank, spamming PoH on both groups when there is raid damage. Using PW:S on the tank on CD, as well as tracking rapture for the cooldown. Healing off the Weakened Soul buff with Heal to allow her to bubble the tank faster. (as well as tracking the debuff on her frames) and lastly: Just keep casting. Even if its just Heal on the tank.

keep casting.

constantly.

Throughout the fight.

If you're not spamming a button then its probably wrong. Spam the next button you want to use while you're casting the current one.

DPS if you have nothing else to do. (Holy Fire/penance on boss on CD + smite smite smite).

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If you guys want to see what she is actually casting and when, just go to http://worldoflogs.com/reports/yh1v5etbhs6yn2b5/log/?s=9592&e=10139

Select the "remove" link next to show all events, then Hit the "Add Quarry" button, Check the box next to Spell cast, then to the left of source enter in "Taldryx" and then hit save, then run quary.

Taldryx, I would like you to do this and then match it up with https://www.icy-veins.com/discipline-priest-wow-pve-healing-rotation-cooldowns-abilities under the single target healing section. The tell us what you need to change, and why.

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I like my PoM usage, but need to try harder to do it on CD - as you all know there is a ton of running around which makes that a little difficult and also accounts for some of the lapses in spellcasting. WAY TOO MUCH FLASH HEAL! Not mana efficient. Problem is there were many times during the fight that Dru's health was down to I would say 10% and Flash Heal is my "Oh Crap Get 'Em Back Up No Matter What!" heal. If someone has a better solution in this scenario I would love to hear it. I felt like I wanted to stick to Dru's instructions, which were very clear "No cross-healing!" but would say that as you can see it was at times irresistible to heal someone who was about to die, and I tend to agree that if the Tank is full health, and especially if Rapture is activated, I want to look at the rest of the Raid: Throw out bubbles, some Inner Focus plus PoH if needed or whatever. Heading now to your second link, Dru.

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I like my PoM usage, but need to try harder to do it on CD - as you all know there is a ton of running around which makes that a little difficult and also accounts for some of the lapses in spellcasting. WAY TOO MUCH FLASH HEAL! Not mana efficient. Problem is there were many times during the fight that Dru's health was down to I would say 10% and Flash Heal is my "Oh Crap Get 'Em Back Up No Matter What!" heal. If someone has a better solution in this scenario I would love to hear it. I felt like I wanted to stick to Dru's instructions, which were very clear "No cross-healing!" but would say that as you can see it was at times irresistible to heal someone who was about to die, and I tend to agree that if the Tank is full health, and especially if Rapture is activated, I want to look at the rest of the Raid: Throw out bubbles, some Inner Focus plus PoH if needed or whatever. Heading now to your second link, Dru.

If you think the tank is about to die because the healers are falling behind, spell_priest_voidshift.jpgVoid Shift is your best tool to save him. It will reverse your health with the tank's and boost yours up to a minimum of 25%.. But don't use it unless your raid leader calls for it.

In general, though, Krazyito's point about just pressing your buttons is the most important one. I was in an LFR on my Holy Paladin last night, in pathetic gear (463 ilvl). For the entire encounter, I just healed the tank. Heal heal heal. It didn't matter to me if it seemed like he was taking no damage, I healed him anyway and broke only to use my mana cooldowns. What happens is that the tank takes damage, and then it gets healed by the cast you had in progress, or he gets healed by something you had already cast (PW:S or Spirit Shell in your case, Illuminated Healing and Sacred Shield in mine). I healed circles around people in far better gear, and I was last in overhealing to boot.

Atonement healing is better than that even, since even taking into account the miniscule chance that it doesn't heal anyone or overheals, you still did damage and helped kill the boss with every keystroke. If you aren't using everything you have and ending each encounter OOM, you can always afford to be more aggressive.

Edited by Tarazet
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I'm on my phone atm, so I cannot elaborate as much as I want.

I do want to say that cross-healing, should NEVER be frowned upon unless the tank is specifically dieing to the same thing over and over. At that point they should make a point to watch the tank, then continue with cross healing.

I will find a post soon with my opinion on cross healing.

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I wanted Taldryx to be able to focus on one thing and one thing alone, and then we could work from there... also the paladin had her becon on me so there was help on her target.

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If you guys want to see what she is actually casting and when, just go to http://worldoflogs.c...?s=9592&e=10139

Select the "remove" link next to show all events, then Hit the "Add Quarry" button, Check the box next to Spell cast, then to the left of source enter in "Taldryx" and then hit save, then run quary.

Taldryx, I would like you to do this and then match it up with http://www.icy-veins...downs-abilities under the single target healing section. The tell us what you need to change, and why.

This log is missing consistent usage of the basic spells that make a Disc Priest work for single-target healing. As Disc, you don't keep up Renew, unlike Holy. Start with spell_holy_penance.jpgPenance and use it as needed. After that, you should prioritize spell_holy_powerwordshield.jpgPower Word: Shield first, then spell_holy_prayerofmendingtga.jpgPrayer of Mending, then after that spam spell_holy_lesserheal.jpgHeal until you can use one of those first two spells again. Switch to spell_holy_greaterheal.jpgGreater Heal if the tank's health is starting to inch lower. Renew isn't important to your performance, but you can cast it on the move so it can be useful if you can't use the more important spells. (Again, this is only for Disc - not Holy!)

I would suggest to take Flash Heal off your bar, and instead rely on casting the smaller heals more often. Don't worry about running out of mana from spamming Heal. If that happens, it's a good sign. That means you're in the habit of using your abilities without interruption.

Edited by Tarazet
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I would just like to comment that I really admire your commitment to improve!

It can be a tough game sometimes and it's great to see that people can be as dedicated and supportive as the OP and respondents in this thread.

Keep up the good work everybody :)

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Yes Nemo!!! This has become a very interesting journey and I am so greatful to the many peeps who have kind of "adopted" me through this thread and given me so much invaluable help! You're the best!

So, I combed through Icy Veins Disc Healing Guide (btw, I have read it many times) and taken into consideration all of the comments here and Dru, this is what I have come up with:

1) Change to Inner Fire for the Spellpower Boost

2)Try to keep 5 stacks of Evangelism so that I am always ready to put on my wings (Archangel) for increased healing of either regular or Atonement type heals

3) Don't Spirit Shell on CD or I will not get any Divine Aegis

4) Use Pain Suppression and PW:S on Biting Cold in this fight to mitigate damage, and otherwise on Tank when he is going down to START to keep him up:

From there, for very low tank health here is my plan, in order of priority:

A. Void Shift if I am healthy to give him my health

B. Inner Focus, Penance, then GH - Inner Focus will give me enough time to cast Penance faster, and then add in the GH will be fastetr, stronger, greater

C. When none of the above are available - oh, well! 2-3 Flash Heal (instead of really spamming it) and then Heal, GH, Heal, GH etc

5) I REALLY need to set up Weak Auras! A very nice guildmate, Maz, walked me through it once pretty thoroughly, but when I tried to set it up on my own I became confused and overwhelmed. Same with Vuhdo - would really rather be using that as I have heard that it shows incoming Threat better than Healbot, but I can't seem to do it Posted Image

6) Whole raid going down - screw the assignments (sorry Dru) and Inner Focus, Spirit Shell and spam, spam, spam PoH!

7) Ask other Healers to tell me when they are having to use inefficient spells so that if I am Atonement healing I can switch to regular to prevent that

8) Send out Shadowfiend right before Heroism for the extra attack speed it will provide, which will return more mana to me

9) Use Solace as much as possible for the mana return

10) When on the Tank, use Penance/GH and PW:Shield on CD

So, having made this list of stuff I plan to do, I would venture to say that it is unlikely that I will succeed in doing all 10 things immediately lol. If any of you disagree on my list, and feel that you would like to tell me why, I am happy to hear it.

Gonna change my Healbot too so that Renew is not in a primary position, and I am not gonna take off Flash Heal just yet, but will move it so it is hard to get to. Time to study the boss after Council because we plan to down Council tonight!

Thank you again, everyone!

Edited by Taldryx
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10) When on the Tank, use Penance/GH and PW:Shield on CD

Do remember, if tank is close to dying, open with a PW:S, that way you get Borrowed Time, then immediately Penance him, since Penance will not consume Borrowed Time and its channel will be faster, and lastly finish off with a fast cast Greater Heal(maybe combined with Inner Focus), to consume the Borrowed Time buff.

Edited by MoacaBogdan
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Posted Image Well, my new friends, here is the latest: I did not raid last night because I have been suspended from the raid team until my performance improves. Although I am very upset about it, given the amount of work I have done to secure my spot, I support Dru in his decision. Progression raiding is not the place to learn a new spec. I nearly left my guild - which I love - to find one more suitable to my current ability, but they convinced me to stay and assured me they would continue to help me

So the next question, and I will give you my opinions, is: What is the best way for me to get better at this point?

I am thinking that I should, in this order of priority:

1) Heal LFR's. Not ideal, as they usually do not follow the same mechanics as real raiding and are kind of a cluster f***, but it is an opportunity to heal, with the goal being to top the meters?

2) Do heroics, because it is healing

3) Do Open Raid and if I get kicked, so be it

I will be starting to do Dailies every day, and farming rep, and continue all of the questing I did not complete when I hit 90, but I currently do these in Shadow. Should I try to do them in Disc for the challenge and just suck up all of the deaths?

I will be reading all of my spells at least daily and hopefully 3x per day, same with IV Disc Healing Guide

I will try to get some help with setting up Weak Auras and Vuhdo, even if I have to pay someone to help me.

Any other suggestions? Or comments on what I plan to do?

I almost feel like switching to another class - I have Shammy, Druid, and Pally healers at 85, waiting in the wings, but Priest has always been my main and I am not nearly as good at these classes. At least, I don't think I am.

As always, I thank you for your very considerate responses Posted Image

P.S. Yes Krazyito, I will try to always be casting something - spam, spam, spam Posted Image

Oh, and btw, perhaps some of you would be willing to "Like" some of my posts so that I can get some rep here lol?

Edited by Taldryx
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