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wow Nostalrius to be Shut Down and Sued by Blizzard

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One of the most popular Vanilla private servers in recent years is to be shut down after Blizzard issued a formal court notice to the developers! Check out what's happening!

 

With over 80,000 members on their forums and a huge amount of players on their servers, it's difficult to dispute that a community was formed around Nostalrius. As a private server running an older version of WoW, its existence was unfortunately a conflict of Blizzard's legal rules. Time and again, smaller servers have been shut down, but it looks like it's finally going to be the turn of the Vanilla giant.

 

A letter to the community was posted on official site of Nostalrius, in which the team addresses what is happening. They confirmed that they have released the code, but it seems that the community are having troubled deciphering exactly what it all means. Whether or not the server will continue to be hosted elsewhere is a mystery as of now, but it seems Blizzard are ready to enforce their rules.

 

Dear community,

 
For over a year, you have been part of an extraordinary journey. A journey back in the early days of our beloved game. A journey in which hundreds of thousands of people took part in together. Something that we had never seen before, either on retail or private servers. Together, we built a strong community, sharing values and a commun genuine interest for this wonderful game created by Blizzard.
 
Yesterday, we received a letter of formal notice from US and french lawyers, acting on behalf of Blizzard Entertainment, preparing to stand trial against our hosting company OVH and ourselves in less than a week now. This means the de facto end of Nostalrius under its current form.
As soon as we received this letter, we decided to inform the team and players about the future of Nostalrius, where we have all passionately committed our time and energy as volunteers.
Nostalrius Begins PvP, Nostalrius Begins PvE & Nostalrius TBC and all related servers will be definitively shutdown at 23:00 server time on the 10th of April 2016, if our hosting company keeps the server online for that long. It feels kind of unreal, but we want to continue to serve our players as we did, and the best we can in the remaining time.
 
What will happen next? This time, we have no plan for the future, and will have to rely entirely on our community and/or the private server scene.
 
We know the time you spent here, the guilds you were part of, and these people with whom you have shared experiences with. We know the strength of these links, and we also know that they do not need a special WoW realm to survive. However, we will still be publicly providing everything needed in order to setup your own “Nostalrius” if you are willing to.
 
Today is also the day where Nostalrius will start being community-driven in the truest sense of the word, as we will be releasing the source code, and anonymized players data (encrypting personal account data), so the community as a whole will decide the form of the future of Nostalrius. We will still be there in the background if you want us to, but will no longer take the lead.
 
We also initiated an open letter addressed to Blizzard, that you can READ AND FORWARD if you want. It won’t bring Nostalrius back, but it is a way to express ourselves as a community.
Nostalrius was all about the nostalgia and memories of the glorious vanilla days. We don’t know if you truly felt like it was the glory days while playing here, but we hope that you will keep good memories of the time spent here. Once again, we can all be proud to have been part of the Nostalrius journey, no matter how much time was actually spent “in-game”.
 
With our best regards,
 
The whole Nostalrius team.
 
Administrators, Daemon & Viper.
Developers, Joan, Chakor, Etiakor & Cursive
GM Team, Tyrael, Abuthar, Akasso, Benevael, Cabotage, Eragon, Ithlien, Nalorious, Nathrizyr, Pottu, Quietist, Roffeal, Same, Seshinriyu, Vaelanor & Voltog. Testing team, Nano, Fenrir, Link, Stryg, Shahkar, Clank
Syrah in the communication team and all the other contributors who helped us during all this time, officially or unofficially.
 
Only a life lived for others is a life worthwhile.
Albert Einstein.

 

 

In their letter to the community, the team linked to an open letter to Blizzard, in which they appeal for the removal of restrictions in regards to private servers. I'd recommend reading it before casting your own judgement!

 

So, the real question at hand. Should private servers be allowed if they do not make money from them? Should Blizzard open up their own servers for older expansions?

 

Let us know what you think!

 

REMINDER: As of writing this article, playing on a private server is not permitted under Blizzard's rules. By reporting on this issue, I am by no means endorsing, nor suggesting, that any of you should play on the servers.

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This is kind of a dick move by blizzard.

Yes, it's their code/idea but its also over 10 years old now and it doesn't hurt blizzard in terms of money.. or do you really think any of their players will now play WoW on the live servers? haha, no.

 

I think as long as private server do not get monetized and the version is at least some years old (and vanilla is....) they should just let it be sad.png

80k+ members holy fck..

 

Even tho i myself don't play on Private servers currently, as a post cata player wotlk/tbc/vanilla servers where the only way for me to get into the "Old" experience and i can understand why people play on P. servers.

Edited by Caprias

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Well, way I see it, Blizz is entirely within their rights to shut these guys down. They aren't making money off of it, sure, but they are still using someone else's property without paying for it and without having permission to do so. Quite simply, they stole the game and then shared with people. Even if they aren't profiting off of it, that doesn't make it ok any more than it would be to steal a game from your local gamestop and give it to someone else for free. You don't make money off of it, sure, but neither did Gamestop. Many people feel like because they care about the game so much and because they've played the game so much that those feelings make it their game. It doesn't. Warcraft is still Blizzard's until they decide to give it away or it's been around long enough to be public domain. Honestly, I don't care one way or another if Blizzard ever creates their own vanilla servers. If that's what they want to do, great, there is clearly a small group of people who would enjoy that, and that's understandable. It doesn't appeal to me at all, but if other people like it, great. But it should be Blizzard's choice what they do with their own game.

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I think Blizzard is right here. 

around 10 years ago I started playing WoW for the first time on a private server instead of the official, because I didn't know the game and didn't even know about the official server. But the amount of bad influence this private server had on my WoW skills and even gaming overall was unspeakable.

 

Bugs, Cheaters, Exploiters, Quests that never existed in the official server, Bosses that only auto attack, Fly Hacks in BGs, unnoticeable bugs in class talents which leads to big disasters in arenas. not only these servers hurt their community and players by giving them false experience, but they even hurt blizzard by giving a false image of the game,

 

imagine someone that never played wow before, friends invite him to play on this private server, now can you be 100% sure that this server has no bugs and it's just like the way it used to be on official servers? I highly doubt it. So not only that new player is not going to experience the real WoW (which hurts the player) but he will be dissapointed in the game because he thinks this is actually wow. (which is a bad image and hurts blizzard)

Edited by mnime

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Each player playing on private server could've been 1 subscriber, maybe they are hoping people will move from the private server to a official server.  The biggest reasons I could see people play on private servers are:

 

1. The Cost = Free To Play (F2P)

Even with Blizzard's F2P model this option is SERIOUSLY limited. The players won't have anything related to end-game experience, and it is limited to level 20. The only thing you can do at this level for progression is PvP, which is unbalanced at lower levels.

 

Possible solution: Increase the F2P level cap to 30 (next talent) or 60 (raids), and keep on increasing it every new expansion (or every 2/3 years).

 

2. Legacy talent systems. (Progression at early levels) 

For each level gained. you would gain 1 talent point to assign. I felt more character progression in Cataclysm, where every 10 levels was a breakthrough.

Currently if you would only feel more powerful every 15 levels when you gain a talent (which is sometime just useless) or when you learn a new core spell.

"You have gained a level" from 108 to 109. Reward: No talent. No spell. Response: ...

Most likely people will quit WoW before they reach max level.  Perks seem to be removed, so level 100 to 109 will be an depressing abyss.

 

In Legion there are 2 new progressive systems. The Artifact and PvP Honor System. But these are only available when you reach the required levels.

 

Its like when you watch a TV Series but it was so boring that you stopped watching after the first season, then someone comes and tells you "Wait until you get to Season 6, then it gets interesting!" .... sad.png

Edited by Archimage
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In Legion there are 2 new progressive systems. The Artifact and PvP Honor System. But these are only available when you reach the required levels.

 

Its like when you watch a TV Series but it was so boring that you stopped watching after the first season, then someone comes and tells you "Wait until you get to Season 6, then it gets interesting!" .... sad.png

Yeah, but the required level is 100, which they give you a free level 100 character when you buy legion so you can do that stuff immediately, even if you're playing the game for the first time.

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My deep condolences to Nostalrius team and the player base.

While Blizzard's decision can be justified legally, it can't be perceived as the right one from the point of common sense. Obvious problems of weak F2P system and overall game changes were mentioned already.

I started my own journey in Azeroth 8 years ago, also on private servers - and they were, in fact, what eventually drove me to buy a game, commit and play officially.

The point of no return that is justifying private servers' existence is Blizzard content policy. When Cataclysm was released, I moved to official server mostly to play it - and my experience was outstanding. A lot of things have changed, as we all know - game mechanics, balance, development axis etc. - but the biggest change was the change of Azeroth itself. Cataclysm brought us a lot of changes to common things - familiar locations have changed drastically.

It was a good change for people like me - who already knew the world that was before. Comparing old and new was shocking and awesome. Old good Barrens ended out to be split in half, Southshore was ravaged by war, Loch Modan dam - a place to sightsee in the old days - crumbled to dust, and I really, really enjoyed a walk in Stormwind Park. Before it became a crater, of course.

But what about those who have never ever seen "the old world"? Who have never visited Stormwind Park? Who have never seen the Loch Modan dam? Who will remember Southshore only because of Caverns of Time TBC instance?

It is simply not a fair thing to do. When Cataclysm was released, we were not given a choice whether we want a new world or the old one. Neither are people who came into the game later.

Their only alternative is private server - the one that gives them not only a feeling of nostalgia and safety from balance team's atrocities, but a full fledged ability to play a whole different game if they weren't there for the past 10 years.

Until I'm given a legal alternative, I won't support Blizzard's decisions on "pirate servers". #GiveVanillaServers. I know you have money to do it.

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I do play on Nostalrius.

I started playing World of warcraft in march 2005, just after the first release in Europe. Throughout vanilla I have never even remotely considered to stop my subscription. The sheer size of Azeroth...the amount of effort it took to even level up, let alone getting into raids...the social aspect, being part of a community...making real life friends, I even met my girlfriend in wow and we have our second kid on the way now.

My feelings for the game changed a bit with the release of TBC and I took some long breaks, thinking how nice it would have been if Blizzard would have given us the opportunity to choose a server with either old content or one that is running the new expack. Heck, I wasn't even close to being "done" in vanilla.

Hence I hesitated to even buy Wotlk when it came out. I was not done with either Tbc OR vanilla. Eventually I did buy Wotlk and it was not a complete disaster right away. Come LFG this changed. Yet another great aspect of the game, the social bit, got wrecked.

The daily quests that became more and more "work" than "game" made me unsub.

My girlfriend and I did buy Cataclysm and played for a couple of months only to find out that it was still the same "get your dailies done or lose out". Unsubbed again.

Dito story goes for MoP.

WoD I regret spending money on.

BUT THEN: Nostalrius!!!!! OMG "my game" is back. A long lost friend had returned to me! The community, the hardness, the effort it took. All was the way it should have been left atleast a couple of years before releasing TBC. The game was the way I liked to play it. If this was Blizzard I'd pay my subscription in a heartbeat.

Offcourse not unexpected but yet really disappointing for me, my girlfriend and I believe something like 80.000 other people, the big bad blizzard is thundering over and takes away our good old friend. Well done Blizzard.

How about making a server for each of the expansions? Is it really that much to ask? I'd pay a monthly fee for that.

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All Blizzard did was shut the server down?  If I where those guys I would thank my lucky stars, because LEGALLY Blizzard could sue for all 80,000 subs if they made the claim.   I have seen a few people state that they where subbed to the game but then cancelled there sub and played this private server.  It would be a very easy case to go after these guys for money.  I think Blizzard did the right thing, in just having them shut down the servers... but for those of you saying "Blizzard is mean"  I don't think you really understand the situation these guys where in and the consequences of theft.  

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I see a lot of people just shitting all over private servers and their users. I don't think private servers are bad, and certainly not Nostalrius.

When I started playing WoW, I had no clue what is was and I certainly wasn't going to spend all the money it then required to get a sub running and buy all of the expansions. So, I started on a private server and eventually, I started to want more, bought the game, and subbed. Some years later, I created Icy Veins with Vlad (who also started with me on the same private server). Without private servers, there would have never been Icy Veins, that I'm certain of.

I think there's a lot more to the debate than jsut IP theft. In the grand scheme of things, it's important to consider whether private servers are actually detrimental to World of Warcraft. In some ways they are and in other ways they aren't, quite the contrary. In the case of Nostalrius, the player base seems to have been mostly made of disgruntled users who missed the old days (they are plenty of private servers running WoD). Now, they're just going to be more disgruntled and they'll bear a grudge against Blizzard for putting an end to the Vanilla server dream.

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Here is my 2 cents on the matter. When it come right down to it ( no matter what side you are in this debate) the law is the law. You would not steal from a store, you would not rob a bank, so why are you stealing from blizzard? 

 

I do understand why people play on private servers. (Wanting to relive the old days.. don't want to pay for a sub fee etc). And i understand that a lot of people don't like where this game is going. yes they had some bad mess up....

 

My question is do you think that if blizzard started making old server( val,bc, lk) would you pay the monthly sub fee to play on them?

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the point is moot for reasons why Blizzard acted upon the rights, however as a WOW player since 2006 that stopped prescription to retail after WoD because the game isn't anything I want to play now, and a privet server player on vanilla Wow,

I would be in very high hopes that Blizzard would see a nitch here and strongly look into franchiseing a vanilla Wow server.

I and my son would pay a sub fee for it.

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Here's the thing... People are misconstruing Nostalrius as a business loss for Blizzard. This is actually, in most cases, not true. I myself played on Nostalrius. I'm not ashamed of it. However, I do also maintain an active retail subscription, unlike most players. Most players I have interacted with on this topic (200-300 at least) say that they do NOT hold an active subscription, and HAVE NOT for a long time. Although one might look at it in a light that makes it seem like it's a lost subscriber and someone who just wants to play for free, it is not in most cases. There might be the odd few people here and there, but people played on Nostalrius for what retail WoW lacks. Common examples of this might be: pre-max-level content, scale and grandeur, world content, and most of all, community. These people who want to experience this would most likely not be subscribed to retail wow in its current condition, even if there were no private servers. People are upset with the state of the game currently, there is no doubt. And these people are among them. Most of them are in the category of people who have already unsubscribed are were looking for something new to do. Because they are not interested in retail WoW at all, there is no definitive justification that it is a loss of profit to Blizzard. 

Does this mean that they shouldn't have shut down the servers? No, they had every right to. However, people need to realize that this was not harming Blizzard in any relevant way. out of the 150,000 active accounts, how many would actually sub to retail wow if it were not for private servers? I would argue very few, based on my experience. The only thing that this could potentially transform into is MORE business for Blizzard, if they went back on their decision and brought in those 150,000 players with what they wanted. A completely vanilla, no cash-shop or boosted 60's, 2005 version of the game. My guess if while they wouldn't subscribe to retail WoW, they DEFINITELY would pay a subscription for legacy vanilla servers hosted by Blizzard.

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As a lot of players said, LEGALLY speaking it was their right to do it. They have the copyrights, it's their game and so on.. BUT, was it really necesarry? It's kind of a Dickmove. Speaking of money, no one was profiting from this server, neither Nostalrius nor Blizzard. All people said it were 80k players.. let me correct you: There were 800K registered accounts and 150k active ones. I took up and played for 2 weeks but i can really understand the pain that caused this one because there are ones who play from the begining and 1 year playing in vain it's a big deal.

 

Blizzard saw this server as a threath.. IF private servers are illegal.. why didn't they closed all of them? Because they have maximum 50k players each and it's nothing to worry about. Blizzard pissed off a lot of people by doing this and the consequences will soon be visible. This were my 2 cents on the problem.

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It seems like, in this discussion, one of the big things people ask for is Blizzard to open their own servers. At the heart of this, how many people played on private servers to avoid paying a subscription? I'd love to see projections for how many new subscribers Blizzard would get if they introduced the vanilla servers.

 

Would players expect them to be free? Would they expect reduced subscription rates since no new content is being added? Of course you'd get players coming over from live to play on the servers, but they're already paying subscriptions. 

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Comparing Nostalrius to stealing from a game store is not a great example. I own the original WoW should I not be allowed to play it? Nostalrius only gives people the ability to run the original version of WoW, They don't go down to the local game store and steal a copy to run there servers.

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Comparing Nostalrius to stealing from a game store is not a great example. I own the original WoW should I not be allowed to play it? Nostalrius only gives people the ability to run the original version of WoW, They don't go down to the local game store and steal a copy to run there servers.

 

You don't 'own' the original wow.  You own the right to connect to blizzards servers that host the current version of the game and access the 'current content' up to your expansion level.

 

I think this is a key thing MANY people miss with persistently updated games like WoW.  You own the right to connect to blizzards servers, and blizzard quite literally does whatever they want with them. Blizzard has no responsibility to any player on what that server changes or keeps since it belongs to Blizzard themselves.

 

I'm on the fence about private servers, while I see why blizzard would want to take these measures to make sure they keep their business going, I am going to side with Damien and say I don't think it was a major cause for concern in regards to their IP being stolen.  Its not like they actually made any money off the server.

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I'm on the fence about private servers, while I see why blizzard would want to take these measures to make sure they keep their business going, I am going to side with Damien and say I don't think it was a major cause for concern in regards to their IP being stolen.  Its not like they actually made any money off the server.

 

I'm 100% open to being corrected on this, but from what I have read, they received a number of donations for their work on the server. I don't know whether this is something that Blizzard would have been bothered by, since it's a donation rather than payment for services.

 

I know that some of the private servers would add special bonuses to people that paid real money, such as special equipment, overpowered items, etc., but a straight donation to the team is different.

 

I guess at the heart of it all, Blizzard can do with their property as they wish. The community may be disgruntled, upset, angry, whatever, but at the end of the day they don't really have a leg to stand on. 

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As far as I know, any money they made was to offset server costs. In their public statements they said they have outright refused donations and directed people to links to pay for the server. 

 

That's just what I read on their reddit AMA

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A lot of people are talking about money. So let get down to brass tax.Nostalrius stated they have 800,000 players who registered an account.(go fund me post) so that being said 800k x 15 buck a month is 12 million in lost sub fees( not counting buying the game, expansion etc) That is a lot of money..... Ok now not all of them are active... In the same go fund me post...they have stated "150,000 players who were active" so 150k x 15 is 2.25 million... again still a lot of money. I thing that blizzard need to think about bringing new " old world servers"

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A lot of people are talking about money. So let get down to brass tax.Nostalrius stated they have 800,000 players who registered an account.(go fund me post) so that being said 800k x 15 buck a month is 12 million in lost sub fees( not counting buying the game, expansion etc) That is a lot of money..... Ok now not all of them are active... In the same go fund me post...they have stated "150,000 players who were active" so 150k x 15 is 2.25 million... again still a lot of money. I thing that blizzard need to think about bringing new " old world servers"

A lot of players play on that server because it's free, not because it's oldschool. So, there is no way it's over 2 mil. 

As a player of runescape, where Jagex (game dev) decided to make oldschool servers (from 2007), the community split up and became extremely toxic (mainly the oldschool community). Maybe Blizzard doesn't want similar thing to happen and won't launch oldschool servers.

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A lot of people are talking about money. So let get down to brass tax.Nostalrius stated they have 800,000 players who registered an account.(go fund me post) so that being said 800k x 15 buck a month is 12 million in lost sub fees( not counting buying the game, expansion etc) That is a lot of money..... Ok now not all of them are active... In the same go fund me post...they have stated "150,000 players who were active" so 150k x 15 is 2.25 million... again still a lot of money. I thing that blizzard need to think about bringing new " old world servers"

A lot of players play on that server because it's free, not because it's oldschool. So, there is no way it's over 2 mil. 

As a player of runescape, where Jagex (game dev) decided to make oldschool servers (from 2007), the community split up and became extremely toxic (mainly the oldschool community). Maybe Blizzard doesn't want similar thing to happen and won't launch oldschool ser

never said it was just because it" old school". i'm saying that the 2.25 million is if all of them were sub to wow... the fact that it free is a huge reason people make/ play this type of server..

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Anyone who is saying this is dickish by blizzard is incredibly short sighted when it comes to businesses and regulations. WoW is blizzard's intellectual property, and unless they explicitly said so, using it to host your own private server and thereby hindering their customer numbers on the official servers is 100% illegal, so it's in their legit right to pursue legal action against you. The reason they usually don't is because most private servers have such a low player count anyway compared to their servers that the time, money and effort involved wouldn't be worth it. In the case of nostalrius, it's clear that it did.

 

Don't get me wrong, I have played my fair amount of WoW on private servers, and I would definitely do so again over playing in the official one's current, crappy state. But this doesn't change the fact that blizzard was perfectly in the right with this decision and you're a fool if you think otherwise.

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Comparing Nostalrius to stealing from a game store is not a great example. I own the original WoW should I not be allowed to play it? Nostalrius only gives people the ability to run the original version of WoW, They don't go down to the local game store and steal a copy to run there servers.

 

You don't 'own' the original wow.  You own the right to connect to blizzards servers that host the current version of the game and access the 'current content' up to your expansion level.

 

He does own the orginal wow and as such he has every right to play the game he bought for as long as he want. Nowhere on box does it say ''you now bought the right to connect to blizzard servers''. By buying game time you own the right to connect to blizzard servers. 

 

It is unfair to force people into buying new expansions by making their current game undesirable and pointless. If you don't buy new expansion you wont have no one to raid with, even some raids you bought are now deleted and undoable with your expansion, most proffesions became usless and so on. Look at starcraft 1 for example it has separate servers for original and expansion and who doesnt wont to buy starcarft xpack isnt forced because game he bought is not obsolete. By forcing players to buy new xpacks takes away their rights to play the game they payed for. 

 

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You don't 'own' the original wow.  You own the right to connect to blizzards servers that host the current version of the game and access the 'current content' up to your expansion level.

 

 

He does own the orginal wow and as such he has every right to play the game he bought for as long as he want. Nowhere on box does it say ''you now bought the right to connect to blizzard servers''. By buying game time you own the right to connect to blizzard servers. 
 
It is unfair to force people into buying new expansions by making their current game undesirable and pointless. If you don't buy new expansion you wont have no one to raid with, even some raids you bought are now deleted and undoable with your expansion, most proffesions became usless and so on. Look at starcraft 1 for example it has separate servers for original and expansion and who doesnt wont to buy starcarft xpack isnt forced because game he bought is not obsolete. By forcing players to buy new xpacks takes away their rights to play the game they payed for. 

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      Pet Battle Bonus Event (May 16 - 22)
      While this event is active, your pets will earn experience at triple the usual rate! Get out there and battle!
      PvP Brawl: Deepwind Dunk (May 16-22)
      Can you even dunk? If you want to win this Brawl, you’re going to need to work on your skills because Dunkball has come to Pandaria. You’ll race to claim balls from the map’s center, or northern, or southern mines, take them to your enemy’s base, and then go for a magnificent long range shot or go all in for the dunk.
      Cataclysm Timewalking Dungeon Event (May 23 - 29)
      While this event is active, players level 86 or higher may access a special Timewalking Dungeon Finder queue, which scales players and their items down to revisit past dungeons from the Cataclysm expansion. While Timewalking bosses will yield loot appropriate for a player’s regular level.
      Glowcap Festival (May 27)
      Today, the sporelings of Sporeggar in Zangarmarsh hold their annual mushroom festival. Help them keep the great Fshoo alive as long as possible!
      Arena Skirmish Event (May 30 - June 5)
      While this event is active, Arena Skirmishes will award Honor at an increased rate. Will you answer the call to battle?
    • By Alwaysmiddle
      Thanks for the ride guys, I hope everyone luck in the future. Our guild will be finished here, it's been fun.
    • By Stan

      Tuning for Beast Mastery Hunters continues and Blizzard reverted changes made to Wild Call triggering. Dire Beast and Dire Frenzy will have two charges baseline The Mantle of Command (Legendary shoulders) will be changed to increase the proc chance of Wild Call.
      Changes above should result in more Focus and a more fluid rotation for Beast Mastery Hunters.
      Blizzard (Source)
      Hi Beast Masters. We’ve been reading your feedback and trying different sets of changes for Beast Mastery Hunters internally and on PTR.

      To start, we are reverting all 7.2.5 changes we’ve made so far to how Wild Call triggers. Instead, Dire Beast and Dire Frenzy will have 2 charges baseline. The Mantle of Command (legendary shoulders that currently add +1 charge to Dire Beast/Dire Frenzy) will be changed to instead further increase the proc chance of Wild Call. 

      Overall, this will result in more Focus for all Beast Mastery Hunters, resulting in a more active rotation. Additionally, this gives all Beast Mastery Hunters access to a Dire Beast/Dire Frenzy with 2 charges playstyle that is more engaging and fun, allowing you to make decisions on when to use the buttons, instead of feeling like you should most often simply push them on cooldown.

      We’ve been trying other iterations of changes surrounding Dire Beast/Dire Frenzy and Wild Call, including increasing Dire Beast/Dire Frenzy Focus generation or versions that avoided changing the legendary shoulders drastically, but ultimately reached the conclusion that giving 2 charges to the abilities baseline, which many of you have asked for, was the best change for the spec at the current time. We appreciate your patience while we try different iterations on PTR.

      We are also making a few other less major changes to the spec in the next PTR patch, including: Aspect of the Wild will reduce the global cooldowns of your damaging abilities by 0.2 seconds, allowing you to more reliably spend the Focus you’re generating while it's active, especially with Dire Beast/Dire Frenzy going off. Kill Command and Dire Frenzy will cause your pet/Hati to charge up to 40 yds (up from 25 yds) to the target, matching the max range of your ranged abilities. When your pet casts Dash, Hati will also gain Dash for the same duration.
    • By Stan

      Volunteer Guard Day micro-holiday is here and Blizzard continues to discuss 7.2.5 Brewmaster Monk / Discipline Priest class changes.
      Volunteer Guard Day
      /Salute a guard to receive the Volunteer City Guard buff. You will be periodically attacked by City Invaders. The buff persists through death. More details are included in our preview here.
      Patch 7.2.5 Class Discussion
      Class discussions are ongoing for Brewmaster Monks & Discipline Priest. If you've missed the previous round you can find it here.
      Brewmaster Monk
      Blizzard (Source)
      Lots of great feedback here on the latest build so far. Thanks.

      Latest thoughts:
      Spitfire - It's a fun playstyle option for people, but having both defensive (even without it being an increase to Hot Blooded, it's still more Elusive Brawler stacks) and offensive value (more Breath of Fires for damage), it's hard to fit it anywhere in the talent tree, and it complicates artifact trait values. We're going to just cut if for now (may return at some point in the future when it fits in better). Niuzao will return, and will simply deal more damage to make him competitive with the row.

      Blackout Combo - Yeah, the 2sec rotation is problematic. Some people like the frantic gameplay, but we think other talent combinations deliver on that better anyway. The main problems with it are that it invalidates a ton of other talent choices, actually *reduces* rotational choice because you just combo everything instead of having to choose what you combo, causes energy capping issues, is a massive buff to the talent potentially upsetting talent balance, and is too fast-paced without any other contribution. We're going to return it to 3sec, where you can pair it with other GCD-filling talents to create the frantic playstyle if you prefer, without causing the above issues.

      Hot Blooded and Dragonfire Brew - Baseline, Hot Blooded is very strong. 1% DR per bronze trait is already on the extremely strong side. The Legendary chest was created with Hot Blooded in mind as its defensive benefit. But that gets a little out of hand when we added 4th points to Bronzes, and you min/max relics, increasing it to the massively-OP level of 7% DR for a legendary. Then the 7.2.5 changes also add more Elusive Brawler stacks to that. We're going to adjust these two traits in order to better balance trait and legendary values: Dragonfire Brew will also increase the duration of Breath of Fire's DoT by 100%, giving it defensive value. Hot Blooded will now be active the whole time, instead of ~half the time without the Chest, and so is changing to 1% DR per point to compensate.

      EDIT: Overall Tuning - As always, overall tuning happens late in the process. Don't worry about overall power level of Brewmasters when giving feedback on these changes.

      Thanks all!
      I have a feeling there's a disconnect between how much the monk community value those elusive brawler stack and how the Developers value them.

      First off, as said many times, dodge doesn't do anything VS magic damage or VS any kind of boss threatening ability as they are undodgeable even if physical (ex: spellblade annihilate).

      From a mythic raider point of view, those dodge stacks hardly do anything, as bosses auto-attack (the only thing that's dodgeable) are the least threatening form of damage we have to face.

      From a M+ dungeon point of view, those stack comes and go so fast nobody will notice the buff... having 100% dodge chance for 1 auto-attack out of the 5+ weak mob training you hardly change anything... 

      It's also one of the reason people hardly, if ever, use blackout combo to empower purify.
      We value it based upon its actual real world value, not a theoretical worst case that doesn't actually exist. You should too.

      Yes, Elusive Brawler does nothing against Magic/undodgeable damage. However, apart from some extremely niche situations like Star Auger, it's not that piercing damage alone that kills you; it's the combination of those and other damage that is dodgeable. Nowhere is this more true than on Brewmasters, where there is no spike damage, only smoothed total damage (which is mostly auto attack damage). Mastery drastically reduces the total damage you take, which is the only thing scary to a Brewmaster anyway.
      Discipline Priest
      Blizzard (Source)
      Thanks for all the feedback. As I mentioned last week, there was a lot of rapid iteration going on so it was hard to give any detailed updates. This build is a more complete set of changes that seems to be going in a good direction, though there are still some issues to work out.

      --Talent balancing. In particular, Evangelism is an idea we like, but finding serious competition for it as a raid talent might be hard. It probably needs to be against heavier hitters like Power Infusion (especially if that helps it be less of a one-note cooldown stacking build). There will likely be further iteration on talent arrangement to better accommodate the new additions.

      --Mana. The spell whose cost is most important for balance purposes is Plea, because it is now the most efficient way to convert excess mana into Atonements. We reduced the cost so it would make more sense when compared against Shadow Mend and Radiance, but have to keep an eye on whether that leaves mana as a reasonable limiter on how much Atonement you can spread over the course of an encounter.

      --Overall Atonement count. The changes in the last build helped fix a lot of mechanical issues, but also added a lot of raw power to the spec, particularly in terms of Atonement spread/uptime. And particularly Evangelism returns a lot of the burst-Atonement coverage that currently dominates Disc raiding. That's not necessarily a problem if everything else about the spec is working well, and it's good to continue having a bit of a niche that Disc is used to in Legion. But as discussed in my first post, if it's as easy to blanket the raid as it is on live, that limits the spec somewhat. 

      While this is something we'll monitor throughout PTR, especially with more internal and external raid testing, there is definitely a worry that in order to balance the spec at this point, the Atonement transfer % would have to go down, which is the opposite of the stated goal. We don't want to be in that position at the end of PTR when it's harder to make other changes.
    • By Stan

      Roundup of today's Live Q/A with Game Director Ion "Watcher" Hazzikostas. Tomb will open somewhere between mid to late June. Exalted reputation requirement for Class Mounts was removed. Legendary items will be upgradable through essences, similar to 7.1.5.
      Legion Class Q/A was considered multiple times, but talking about a single spec wouldn't be too compelling to viewers playing a different class.
      Broken Shore
      The team didn't want players to feel overwhelmed with all the content on Day 1, which is why they went for gating Class Mounts
      The Exalted reputation requirement (Armies of Legionfall) was removed and once you finish the Legionfall campaign (Breaching the Tomb), you can start working on getting your Class Mount CRZ Issues
      They're acutely aware of it and don't like server hopping, it's definitely on their radar In Legion they introduced server sharding which made Legion launch smooth Some addons encourage behaviors that do not complement this tech (World Quest Group Finder) Demon Assaults
      Won't reward Armies of Legionfall reputation  They would have to sprinkle all rewards everywhere It's okay to have activities up that offer distinct rewards (AotL reputation / Nethershards) that do not interest you Don't need Nethershards? Don't do the Sentinax Legion Assaults are great source of Nethershards. If it's up in a zone you've got your emissary up, it's super time efficient Excessive Order Resources
      Spending 7,000 per week for getting 3 Seals of Broken Fate is a significant drain They may offer a sink in the future, but nothing is planned for now It's good to have excessive resources so that players don't feel forced to do World Quests Heirlooms
      Coming in the next 7.2.5 build Legendary Items
      New Legendary items will be introduced in 7.2.5 If you have all Legendaries for your spec, you will don't need to micromanage loot spec, off-spec Legendaries will drop automatically E.g. Brewmaster Monk who has all Legendaries for his spec will see WW / MW Legendaries drop Blizzard is happy with the current Legendary acquisition rate There will be a quest that offers a new Distilled Titan Essence to upgrade 940 Legendary items to 970 Mythic+ 
      Week 1 Tomb: Nothing Changes Mythic Tomb Opens: Mythic Cap goes up to 15, where weekly cache is comparable to Mythic Tomb and Mythic+ loot to Heroic Tomb loot According to completion rates / completion times / 2-chesting / 3-chesting, things are in a good space right now, no plans for nerfs Overall, affixes are good, learning curves (Fel Explosives), Grievious runs, people put on Prydaz etc.It's good to evolve different strategies for different affixes Nighthold Mythic
      Progression is fluid, Elisande & Gul'dan are subject to nerfs Patch 7.3
      We'll go to Argus and there's a new raid, more information not available so far There will be no Class-specific quests in 7.3. Armies of Legionfall represents all the classes united Reputation Paragon
      Paragon emissaries have underwhelming rewards compared to normal caches. This will be discussed in the future Timewalking
      Black Temple is tied to Burning Crusade Timewalking. Blizzard wants to come to a point where every Timewalking week will have a Timewalking raid associated with it Tomb of Sargeras
      Will open mid to late June More testing will be done on PTR (LFR Wing 1 opens this weekend) Items will have a +30 item level ceiling Gear will Titanforge to 955 Misc Questions
      Why are external buffs like Innervate and Greater Blessing of Wisdom still a thing? Did we learn nothing from Symbiosis?
      It doesn't feel good to need an external buff to feel viable. Disc Priests in 7.2.5 received changes to be less dependent on Innervation. Such spells help class identity It's better to fill a blank: bring the player, not the class. When you're looking for players, it's better to realize that you need a class that brings a buff rather than the highest item level player in the queue. You needed 5 Holy Priests for Felmyst. You could not be viable as a melee DPS if you didn't have a Warrior to give you Battle Shout, but that was nearly 10 years ago Will the Horde get an update on what's happening on their side? Sylvanas / Blightcaller / Volj'in?
      Vol'jin's dead. It's good not having to force this by a symmetry. They'll add a Horde part of the story when they feel it's right. At the start of the Broken Shore experience, Horde did have an additional cinematic.
      Will we ever be able to use Weapon Illusions on our Artifact?
      No. It was a really early decision by the Art team when they started working on Artifact weapons
      Will we be able to redo Mage Tower Challenges?
      Wasn't designed to be a repeatable thing, but this will be done in the future