rhino

Reforging strategies

11 posts in this topic

Hello all, I have been lurking this site for a few weeks as I am getting back into the game. These lock forums are fantastic. The Demo thread encouraged me to try it a few weeks ago, and then the game gave me a 502 UVoLS, to play with. On some encounters my damage has skyrocketed past what destro was capable of, and it was the advice of this forum that facilitated the change, Thanks for all the discussion it definitely has been helping out locks like me.

On to business. We are levling up and gearing an old play group that hasn't played in some time. Nalak and pug tots were kind to me and I have outgeared some of my friends coming back. As a group we are looking at starting ToT progression very soon, and I want to help facilitate progression the best I can. One way I can do that is making sure my damage is optimized, and a small part of that (a part that is pretty new to me) obviously includes reforging.

I have read everything in the skickies, been finding my stat weights, and I am familiar with the haste break points. The purpose of this post is to try to pry reforging strategies from people. It seems that locks around here play with their reforging quite a lot to mess with haste, or haste vs mastery or even to change specs. Some of you appear to be quite proficient at it.

My current task is to take the bandaid reforging from an old gear set and try my lock in demo with the 8100 break point. Their are some obvious changes to make, but probably some not so obvious ones too.

I am not asking for someone to do this for me, I am asking for help learning the best ways to do this. I too want to be good at reforging my gear. Do people use spreadsheets, mr, robot, mods, superior intellect, constant trial and error, or <insert blank> to assist them? Thank you in advance for any advice, musings, or general thoughts on the subject.

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I think the pros have their own spreadsheets. I use AMR (mr robot). It works great and they just updated the UI to make things even easier. In the stat weights menu you can input the haste rating you want now and it'll reforge to it for you. You used to have to do the math on your own and plug the number in. Pretty nifty.

Also if i want different stat priorities its very easy to switch things around and have AMR do the work. I like it and it suits my needs. Posted Image

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Most 'pros' in fact don't use a spreadsheet. They either pull from the simc bis lists, use common sense regarding stat values, or AMR.

I personally love AMR. I can tell it what stats I want, and it tells me what gear I should get. The only real exception to this is trinkets. NEVER TRUST AMR FOR TRINKETS. It is up to you to research which are best for what. The trinket values they generate are a little wonky. So are the default stat weights. Those, too, are up to you to figure out. They generally have a good starting platform for the weights, but need help because they're mostly generated via simc.

Generally, for demo, the 8100 haste mark is good to aim for in lower-end normal mode gear. The good news, stacking haste past that is highly debatable, and most agree that mastery is better after that point for MOST encounters. There are a few (durumu/lei shen) where stacking haste may be better. But, other then those, there are very few SINGLE TARGET fights this tier, most involve adds/burst, which makes mastery better.

Hate to break it to you, but demo just doesn't perform very well on a number of fights this tier mechanically. That isn't to say you can't make it work on those fights, but you'd definitely do more as destruction/affliction on some fights. Now, for a casual NM guild, I wouldn't worry too much, unless you hit a big road block.

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Thanks for the replies it is much appreciated.

Generally, for demo, the 8100 haste mark is good to aim for in lower-end normal mode gear. The good news, stacking haste past that is highly debatable, and most agree that mastery is better after that point for MOST encounters. There are a few (durumu/lei shen) where stacking haste may be better. But, other then those, there are very few SINGLE TARGET fights this tier, most involve adds/burst, which makes mastery better.

AMR without knowing my custom weights pissed me right off, so downloaded simc a bit ago.

When I patchwork sim my gs 511 lock in destro it is a clean haste>mastery> crit atm. When I sim in demo, mastery is 2.3=> haste 2.29> crit. I have 2 rppm trinkets but do not yet have the meta. It sounds like the best way foward, is use AMR with these weights and then re sim my guy for a dps value. Then force AMR to tell me how to optimize my gear with a forced 8097 haste; and sim those results. Compare the non forced haste dps vaule with the 8.1k haste value to tell me whether I should try to reach that breakpoint yet. Once that knowledge is had, I ought to leave mastery a little higher (judgement call as to how much) for all the multi target fights. I haven't modified my gear inside of simc yet but if people confirm this is a good method to move forward, I will dive right in.

IT seems like most the theory craft in UVoLS demo has been done at higher gear levels then people like me are using. Thanks for clearing up the best methods to use here.

------------------------------

Re Demo vs other specs: I was main destro coming back but needed some variety so turned on demo and immediately had lfr uvols drop. I was crap with the spec at first, but by the end of week 1, when still learning rotation, I managed 105k dps in lfr durumu and 220k dps in a more doom oriented fight ( 10 man wind lord mel'jarak- only about 5% dmg hellfire, 5% voidray, and was a spear chucker, you guys weren't kidding about the crit dooms !). Currently, patchwork demo sims 3k higher then destro which sims 10k higher then aflic. In real terms I hold about 110-115k dps single target in either destro or demo. I tend to use demo for fights with adds that last a long time, and destro for ones that die quick. So far using these 2 specs I feel like a LFR allstar, can't wait to try these specs on real content. No tot fights *require* aflic right ?

Edited by rhino

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No tot fights *require* aflic right ?

Correct, but they do require you to be a troll.

Just kidding.

But seriously. Be a troll mon.

Edited by Omaric

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Ughh, Wtf are my playgroup playing alliance this time around. Now i'm just a boring human in a fantasy game.

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I went back Orc. Challenge mode gear is so sexy on the Orcs. Plus, I'm going to be a renegade Orc kicking Garrosh's ass! Trolls get pushed around too much.

Also, Wind Lord is not a Doom oriented fight. Wind Lord is a Grim of Service + Shadowflame kind of fight. I hosted an achievement run this weekend and tipped out over 2,000,000 DPS and finished the fight at 685,000. Granted, we pulled everything, but yeah, your Imps don't AoE unfortunately. That crit buff, on that fight particularly, is way better used on Shadowflame.

No fight REQUIRES any Warlock spec. They can be done as all 3 of them, but you may see one pull a bit ahead of another on particular fights. Overall, they're pretty close when played by equally skilled players (don't look at all parses on Raidbots and assume Demo is garbage).

You REALLY need to not theorycraft on single target atmospheres. Nearly nothing in ToT has that type of fight, so you're looking at apple seeds trying to figure out how to grow a potato farm.

Here comes my broken record statement: It's not your secondary stats that make you do good DPS. It's your ability to execute the DPS mechanics of your class and manipulate the fight mechanics and make them do what you want them to do.

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I went back Orc. Challenge mode gear is so sexy on the Orcs. Plus, I'm going to be a renegade Orc kicking Garrosh's ass! Trolls get pushed around too much.

But nah it be time fo da reckoneeeng! Da trolls gonna stick togedda and lead dis horde to glory~

P.S. How many orc raids are there compared to troll raids? Coolness factor is on lock mon. That and I love annoying/entertaining my raid with my troll speak. "I cahn't cahst dat yeaht!"

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. NEVER TRUST AMR FOR TRINKETS. It is up to you to research which are best for what. The trinket values they generate are a little wonky. So are the default stat weights.

I completely agree here... AMR does not include the RPPM value of trinks, but merely the base equiped stat. So take that with a grain of salt. Generally I am keeping a few different trinkets, and switching based on the particular boss fight if I have one that fits the fight better.

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Also, Wind Lord is not a Doom oriented fight. Wind Lord is a Grim of Service + Shadowflame kind of fight. I hosted an achievement run this weekend and tipped out over 2,000,000 DPS and finished the fight at 685,000. Granted, we pulled everything, but yeah, your Imps don't AoE unfortunately. That crit buff, on that fight particularly, is way better used on Shadowflame.

Hot diggity, that's a lot of damage. I think that's what I like about demo, I still have so much to learn about it. And their are so many different avenues to blow other dps classes outta the water in terms of damage - but there was probably a way to do it better yet. I need a lot more practice with this spec still.

You REALLY need to not theorycraft on single target atmospheres. Nearly nothing in ToT has that type of fight, so you're looking at apple seeds trying to figure out how to grow a potato farm.

Here comes my broken record statement: It's not your secondary stats that make you do good DPS. It's your ability to execute the DPS mechanics of your class and manipulate the fight mechanics and make them do what you want them to do.

I needed to hear this again. Thanks for replying in this and the other thread. I think I had a misconception that int would be a good choice for all kinds of fights because it will scale well with whatever secondary stat I chose. I'll definitely play around with different fight styles in the sims. Are there any that people here came to prefer using, or just go with whats closest to the boss your working on?

It seems a lot of this starts going back to just using good old common sense. Thank you everyone for replying. And off topic, damn you guys make me miss horde.

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Continuing off-topic...you MUST experience the Horde side of Escalation. I actually...read the quest text...and listened to Thrall and Vol'jin talk...and I enjoyed it. I'll be checking out the Alliance side this weekend, so it'll be neat to see that side. That Double Agent achievement is paying off!

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