Mistweaver Monk 7.3

[Tsuid 0]

Hey ! I'm a rogue main and i'd like to reroll into a heal to see a different aspect of the game :) I'm hesitating with MW and Disc Priest.

Both classes seems viable but the mobility of MW looks really fun to me ! Is there any advices you guys could give me to make my final decision ? i've already almost decided to go Monk for the versatility it offers but i'd like love some feedback from actual monks players. If i'm getting tired of healing are Dps and Tanks specs viable too ? How good are MW compared to others healers (especially Disc) ?

Thx !

[riklaunim 0]

11 hours ago, Tsuid said:

 If i'm getting tired of healing are Dps and Tanks specs viable too ? How good are MW compared to others healers (especially Disc) ?

WW as a DPS is unique, relatively complex, but it won't have high meters (unless you are really really good and others aren't). BrM can be the best or very good tank. MW is quite good healer in the healing category. Some doesn't like the lack of extra utility.

I have a Disc alt and I'm bit spoiled by normal healing on my MW - Disc is quite unique in how he does most of the healing. It's way more demanding to play correctly (keeping, applying atonements at the correct moments). If you PUG things he may not be the best choice for healing bad gameplay (and you still have Holy for strong classic healer).

[riklaunim 0]

As for the guide I have few comments:

 

Lifecycles is the standard choice for fights where you plan on casting Vivify a lot, as Lifecycles provides the most Mana sustain.

It would assume casting expensive Enveloping Mist which doesn't happen aside of aggressive M+ healing - where you can just drink mana in between pulls. Also mistwrap makes damage reduction work while moving.

 

As for refreshing jade wind: in ToS, depending on boss, but quite often raid is stacked or close to each other. At very low mana cost you can heal the whole or most of the raid. It can be very strong - you can move or cast other things when this is active.

stats priority: would be good to see some weight and/or also some recommended stats caps if any. (you don't need a lot of haste if you go above mana cap... and so on). Also leech  (and avoidance) is there and it's often overlooked - if you don't use Prydaz it can generate a lot of self-heal.

Enchantments: some other healers guide suggest dropping ancient priestess in favor of stats enchant at higher throughput of the healer. Do we have something similar for MW?

Drape: It was nerfed so the description is over-hyped now.

T19/T20: some comparison would be handy. T19 farm can give like T20 base heroic ilvl so equal ilvl comparison would be handy (and how that changes when T20 titanoforges).

 

[Valks 2,373]

On 6/27/2017 at 1:55 AM, riklaunim said:

WW as a DPS is unique, relatively complex, but it won't have high meters (unless you are really really good and others aren't).

I'd disagree with this, honestly, especially if he is coming from playing a Rogue. I think WW is incredibly dull if you are bored of Rogue -  it's the same mechanic essentially of Energy/Combo Points, except you can't use the same ability twice in a row. The only real difference is you don't spam your generator, but use smaller spenders in between to continue using the generator. It'd be as if there was a mini-Eviscerate to spend the CP occasionally. 

[Valks 2,373]

On 6/27/2017 at 2:10 AM, riklaunim said:

It would assume casting expensive Enveloping Mist which doesn't happen aside of aggressive M+ healing - where you can just drink mana in between pulls. Also mistwrap makes damage reduction work while moving.

Surely both are spells are used at times when there is little chance of overhealing, so they synergise well? In that you will seek to use Vivify when there is little chance people will be healed before you benefit from casting it, but you will also be using EM at those times to maintain ST tank healing assuming there is little chance other healers will grab them first?

On 6/27/2017 at 2:10 AM, riklaunim said:

AsAs for refreshing jade wind: in ToS, depending on boss, but quite often raid is stacked or close to each other. At very low mana cost you can heal the whole or most of the raid. It can be very strong - you can move or cast other things when this is active.

This is included in the guide:

Quote

For fights where you can consistently heal 6+ targets with every usage of  Refreshing Jade Wind, this is the best option. 

It's definitely a good talent when taken on fights where you are stacked.

On 6/27/2017 at 2:10 AM, riklaunim said:

stats priority: would be good to see some weight and/or also some recommended stats caps if any. (you don't need a lot of haste if you go above mana cap... and so on). Also leech  (and avoidance) is there and it's often overlooked - if you don't use Prydaz it can generate a lot of self-heal.

This was the intention behind including the link to the spreadsheet by Garg. I'm not sure that it has been updated for 7.2, but I would assume he is working on it. 

On 6/27/2017 at 2:10 AM, riklaunim said:

Enchantments: some other healers guide suggest dropping ancient priestess in favor of stats enchant at higher throughput of the healer. Do we have something similar for MW?

No - in every situation, I believe AP is still recommended. 

On 6/27/2017 at 2:10 AM, riklaunim said:

Drape: It was nerfed so the description is over-hyped now.

The Drape is still very powerful. You can use your stat weights from Garg's spreadsheet in the Drape spreadsheet to calculate if it's worth swapping out for. Depends on legendaries, tier slots etc. as well.

On 6/27/2017 at 2:10 AM, riklaunim said:

T19/T20: some comparison would be handy. T19 farm can give like T20 base heroic ilvl so equal ilvl comparison would be handy (and how that changes when T20 titanoforges).

You would need a 16-item level (approx.) difference between the pieces to make the swap between T19 and T20. T19 mythic with 4 pieces at 905 would be better than a T20 normal set at 900. 

[riklaunim 0]

On 2.07.2017 at 3:01 PM, Blainie said:

Surely both are spells are used at times when there is little chance of overhealing, so they synergise well? In that you will seek to use Vivify when there is little chance people will be healed before you benefit from casting it, but you will also be using EM at those times to maintain ST tank healing assuming there is little chance other healers will grab them first?

On last Kil'Jaeden normal I have 51 vivify casts and 3 EM, second MW in that run did have 32 vivify + 12 EM but that EM had 70% overheal. Mistress Sassz'ine Heroic: 55 vivify + 1 EM, second MW: 43 vivify +8 EM. 584,220 / 583,127 HPS. (second MW had T20 2-set on both fights).

So at best Lifecycles can discount those rare EM casts, and not help in any significant way with vivify cost. Vivify/EM casts are very uneven in raid on average. It's not M+ where you have to drop off multiple grievous stacks from a tank or alike. And T20 2-piece bonus will nerf this talent a bit as EM can be "free" from time to time. So:

Lifecycles is the standard choice for fights where you plan on casting Vivify a lot

does not compute. You would have to have a lot of EM casts to discount a lot of Vivify casts. This talent is for higher M+ where it's common to chain cast those spells.

Edited July 5, 2017 by riklaunim

[Valks 2,373]

On 05/07/2017 at 2:24 AM, riklaunim said:

On last Kil'Jaeden normal I have 51 vivify casts and 3 EM, second MW in that run did have 32 vivify + 12 EM but that EM had 70% overheal. Mistress Sassz'ine Heroic: 55 vivify + 1 EM, second MW: 43 vivify +8 EM. 584,220 / 583,127 HPS. (second MW had T20 2-set on both fights).

So at best Lifecycles can discount those rare EM casts, and not help in any significant way with vivify cost. Vivify/EM casts are very uneven in raid on average. It's not M+ where you have to drop off multiple grievous stacks from a tank or alike. And T20 2-piece bonus will nerf this talent a bit as EM can be "free" from time to time. So:

Lifecycles is the standard choice for fights where you plan on casting Vivify a lot

does not compute. You would have to have a lot of EM casts to discount a lot of Vivify casts. This talent is for higher M+ where it's common to chain cast those spells.

Passing this on to review/update.

[Enso 0]

On 6/8/2017 at 2:25 PM, Blainie said:

Omen is a really good start for it. Threat sometimes interacts in incredibly odd ways that can't be properly explained due to multiple inputs from different characters - it can get really confusing!

Using Omen to properly list threat means you can keep an eye on things at all times.

With Omen (or any other tool) is there a way to log any threat data, for future analysis ?

[Valks 2,373]

On 15/07/2017 at 11:57 PM, Enso said:

With Omen (or any other tool) is there a way to log any threat data, for future analysis ?

Not that I am aware of, no. Sorry!

[Valks 2,373]

We are currently in the process of updating all guides as required for the 7.3 release. Please be patient as we make the necessary changes. You can keep an eye on the changelog to know if the guide has been updated or not. 

[Valks 2,373]

This guide has now been updated for the 7.3 patch. If you have any questions or comments, you can always ask them here. If you find any errors in the new changes to the guide, let me know and I'll get the writers to update it ASAP.

Good luck in the Shadows of Argus!

[Razor64 1]

On 8/29/2017 at 5:11 AM, Blainie said:

This guide has now been updated for the 7.3 patch. If you have any questions or comments, you can always ask them here. If you find any errors in the new changes to the guide, let me know and I'll get the writers to update it ASAP.

Good luck in the Shadows of Argus!

 I see on the easy mode page in the subsection on single target healing Vlad mentions how during soothing mist we shouldn't move since it will cancel the channel. If you read the talent choice section above it he suggests we should choose the talent mist wrap, when I looked at the tooltip on the page for mist wrap it says that one of its benefits is that it allows you to move while channeling soothing mist. Has there been a change to mist wrap that isn't reflected in the tooltip?

[Glacials 0]

The Rotation page of this guide currently has two paragraphs in a row saying roughly the same thing about Essence Font. It seems to be an error.

 

Quote

When 6+ raid members are taking damage, you should use  Essence Font (as often as the amount of damage requires, but keep in mind its high Mana cost). Essence Font heals targets within 25 yards of you, so make sure you are not positioned too far away from the rest of raid when using this ability.

When 6+ raid members are taking damage, and it is off cooldown, use  Essence Font. Essence Font heals targets within 25 yards of you. Since you can cast Essence Font on the move, do not be afraid of accidentally wasting the ability. Essence Font is the highest priority AoE healing spell assuming enough targets have taken damage, so it is important you use this ability often, and get full value out of it.

 

[Valks 2,373]

On 9/8/2017 at 3:54 PM, Razor64 said:

 I see on the easy mode page in the subsection on single target healing Vlad mentions how during soothing mist we shouldn't move since it will cancel the channel. If you read the talent choice section above it he suggests we should choose the talent mist wrap, when I looked at the tooltip on the page for mist wrap it says that one of its benefits is that it allows you to move while channeling soothing mist. Has there been a change to mist wrap that isn't reflected in the tooltip?

I believe it is just an outdated part of the sentence - I'll get it updated.

[Valks 2,373]

4 hours ago, Glacials said:

The Rotation page of this guide currently has two paragraphs in a row saying roughly the same thing about Essence Font. It seems to be an error.

Will get this updated as well, thanks!

[Razor64 1]

On 9/9/2017 at 5:33 PM, Blainie said:

I believe it is just an outdated part of the sentence - I'll get it updated.

While I appreciate Vlad's promptness in correcting the error, the way the sentence is structured now doesn't fit with the rest of the point of the section called "easy mode".  Not trying to sound like a jerk quoting this as the whole easy mode section starts with "This page is intended for players who are new to the game or class, have no intentions of raiding Mythic difficulty, or simply want a more straightforward way to play their specialisation without being overwhelmed by the numerous subtleties and active abilities that need to be taken into consideration for optimal play." so if that's the case his sentence about how "unless you're using mist wrap" is out of place. The point of this easy mode guide is that the person reading this is going "TL;DR" to the rest of the guide and should for the most part choose exactly what's shown w/o having to second guess themselves or actually look into the main guide itself to see if the other 2 choices are worth considering. And a small error in the sentence about single target healing is the second sentence that starts with "This not a priority" I believe an "is" went missing there. Thank you for writing these great guides!

[Valks 2,373]

On 9/12/2017 at 1:17 AM, Razor64 said:

The point of this easy mode guide is that the person reading this is going "TL;DR" to the rest of the guide and should for the most part choose exactly what's shown w/o having to second guess themselves or actually look into the main guide itself to see if the other 2 choices are worth considering. And a small error in the sentence about single target healing is the second sentence that starts with "This not a priority" I believe an "is" went missing there. Thank you for writing these great guides!

I believe this was done so that, no matter what talent is chosen, the person can still use the advice - there are a few users that use the Easy Mode guide but still do take different talents than we suggest. So, regardless of what talents they take, they have advice there for that line. It's a pretty important note when not using Mist Wrap.

I'll get the other sentence fixed.

[Razor64 1]

10 hours ago, Blainie said:

I believe this was done so that, no matter what talent is chosen, the person can still use the advice - there are a few users that use the Easy Mode guide but still do take different talents than we suggest. So, regardless of what talents they take, they have advice there for that line. It's a pretty important note when not using Mist Wrap.

I'll get the other sentence fixed.

While I do concede that there are some users that do indeed probably look at other sections, after easy mode, that's what those other sections are for. If they don't choose what is suggested then the basic rotation provided is already moot.

[Guest Teebus]

I noticed something within the 'Easy Mode' section of the guide. Under section 5 (Raid healing) the last line says:

Quote

Use  Sheilun's Gift often, as it is a potent group healing tool and it works well as a filler spell.

Unless there's something I'm not aware of that causes the ability to spread/splash heals, Sheilun's Gift is a single target heal, not a group healing tool, correct?

[Valks 2,373]

15 hours ago, Razor64 said:

While I do concede that there are some users that do indeed probably look at other sections, after easy mode, that's what those other sections are for. If they don't choose what is suggested then the basic rotation provided is already moot.

Yeah, I understand. I'll ask for it to be changed.

[Valks 2,373]

12 hours ago, Guest Teebus said:

I noticed something within the 'Easy Mode' section of the guide. Under section 5 (Raid healing) the last line says:

Unless there's something I'm not aware of that causes the ability to spread/splash heals, Sheilun's Gift is a single target heal, not a group healing tool, correct?

Passing this on, thanks!

[Razor64 1]

On 9/13/2017 at 5:47 AM, Blainie said:

I'll get the other sentence fixed.

Just wanted to mention that after I read that one sentence a few more times, I believe it should really say something along the lines of "This is not a priority list, and you will have to adapt your spells cast to the situation." Or something similar.

[Valks 2,373]

5 hours ago, Razor64 said:

Just wanted to mention that after I read that one sentence a few more times, I believe it should really say something along the lines of "This is not a priority list, and you will have to adapt your spells cast to the situation." Or something similar.

It looks like that was added yesterday morning by Vlad:

Quote

The list below goes over the tasks you should perform when healing a single target (such as a tank). This not a priority, and you will have to adapt your spell usage to the situation.

Not sure if you saw that, but just linking it here.

[Razor64 1]

11 hours ago, Blainie said:

It looks like that was added yesterday morning by Vlad:

Not sure if you saw that, but just linking it here.

Yeah, it still says "This not priority". I was suggesting what it should actually read as. Not what it currently says. But it's just an opinion.

[Valks 2,373]

On 9/17/2017 at 11:15 PM, Razor64 said:

Yeah, it still says "This not priority". I was suggesting what it should actually read as. Not what it currently says. But it's just an opinion.

Ah, okay. I misunderstood what you meant, sorry!