Damien

Elemental Shaman 7.2.5

165 posts in this topic

This thread is for comments about our Elemental Shaman guide for Legion.

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Hey there, haven't seen anything within the current ele TC (which primarily thrives on the shaman discord) that supports some of the conclusions drawn here. The talent lines in question that have questionable advice are the 15, 75, and 100 talent lines. I'll speak about them in order below:

For the level 15 line, everything seems out of place. The current hierarchy for that line is the opposite of what's indicated here. Totem Mastery >= Earthen Rage > Path of Flame is what all current testing that we've seen has reflected. Earthen Rage is around equal for heavy movement, Totem Mastery stays on top for motionless combat and light movement, and Path of Flame outside of the occasional use for its niche via Flame Shock spreading has no use in a raid setting. Path of Flame has not had a use in a raid setting since it was nerfed from 10% Lava Burst damage to 5% Lava Burst damage.

For the level 75 line, the only issue I see is with the evaluation of Icefury & EF. Icefury for single-target is effectively equal to Elemental Fusion, and while both fall behind Primal Elementalist Icefury at least has a niche for fights that require quick target swaps such as Gorefiend or Archimonde. Elemental Fusion has no such benefit, as even with 2-3 flame shocks it still falls behind PE.

For the level 100 line, the primary issue is with Lightning Rod. With the recent nerf to Lava burst & nerfs to EM along with the recent hotfix buff to LR it has actually pulled very slightly ahead of Ascendance for single-target. As such, all 3 will end up having use in the pre-patch on different fights with different demands. None of the talents on that line are unworthy of use in raids.

I do also see a couple of errors in the descriptions of the spells themselves. Ancestral Swiftness was re-buffed to provide 10% haste but is listed as 8%, and Elemental Mastery is listed as 30% Haste when it has been nerfed all the way to 20%.

The only other thing I found that I disagreed with was the note on Earthquake usage in the rotation section. Earthquake surpasses Earth Shock at 3 targets, not 5.

In addition, this actually helped me out as it listed a trinket I had completely forgotten about when I was testing them out before so thanks for that!

If you wanted to chat with me about these I'd be more than happy to through the shaman discord or if you post in my 7.0 guide thread - http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/20745714928?page=1

I'll also try to keep an eye on this for replies as well.

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Hey Gistwiki, Icefury is actually correctly evaluated on the Rotation page but somehow that update didn't find it's way into the Talents section, good catch :) Going to wait for some more practical data before making any major changes to the end tier as it's pretty difficult to make any absolutely concrete assumptions in a prepatch before the patch itself is even live. I'll also get those descriptions updated ASAP, thanks for the hawk eyes :3

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Another detail worth mentioning that in Sims, AS and Echo are practically equal when it comes to raw ST.

Echo, however, is much more lenient on the unavoidable Lava Surge losses that naturally happen. This a considerable gameplay upgrade. Specially, as Gist mentioned, on the fights were PoF can be used. Since both Ancestral Swiftness and Echo of the Elements are very equal on dps, it might be useful the consideration to leave it to personal choice, at least on Single Target fights.

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I noticed that a few places it still reads Enhancement instead of Elemental for shaman - specifically on the Stat Priority page.

Also - will there be any pages added to discuss the Artifacts / Relics / Legendaries etc? Would be curious on build paths to follow / best Relics to slot. Thanks!

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16 hours ago, Sora said:

I noticed that a few places it still reads Enhancement instead of Elemental for shaman - specifically on the Stat Priority page.

Also - will there be any pages added to discuss the Artifacts / Relics / Legendaries etc? Would be curious on build paths to follow / best Relics to slot. Thanks!

The only mention was in the stat page and I fixed it :) Artifact stuff will be added when they become available :)

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6 hours ago, Guest Lina said:

What are the new stat weights? and would you choose a trinket with socket or a WF trinket?

Usually trinkets prefer warforged.

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Everyone seems to have forgotten about Elemental Focus.

It might be passive, but you can manipulate the usage of Elemental Focus to min-max your damage.

Using Earth Shock when you have Elemental Focus up, guaranteed by Lava Burst.

You can delay Frost Shocks from Icefury, by fitting in LBs or until your next Lava Burst/Lava Surge to gain 10% additional damage on those Frost Shocks,

However, the travel time of Lava Burst delays the Elemental Focus activation, so an instant cast after Lava Burst won't gain the benefit from Elemental Focus. You can fit a single LB during the travel time.

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2 hours ago, Guest Mojo Jojo said:

Everyone seems to have forgotten about Elemental Focus.

It might be passive, but you can manipulate the usage of Elemental Focus to min-max your damage.

Using Earth Shock when you have Elemental Focus up, guaranteed by Lava Burst.

You can delay Frost Shocks from Icefury, by fitting in LBs or until your next Lava Burst/Lava Surge to gain 10% additional damage on those Frost Shocks,

However, the travel time of Lava Burst delays the Elemental Focus activation, so an instant cast after Lava Burst won't gain the benefit from Elemental Focus. You can fit a single LB during the travel time.

I'll make a note of it to be safe, but part of the benefit of stacking Critical Strike is that Focus is up nearly all the time :)

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I'm a little confused. In Tier 3, why is Lightning Surge Totem considered better than Voodoo Totem? Isn't Voodoo an AOE version of Hex? I would think that hexing a few enemies for 60 seconds would be better than stunning a few enemies for 5 seconds, but I'm sure I'm missing something important there, because Voodoo Totem seems extremely powerful.

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3 hours ago, Guest Baluki said:

I'm a little confused. In Tier 3, why is Lightning Surge Totem considered better than Voodoo Totem? Isn't Voodoo an AOE version of Hex? I would think that hexing a few enemies for 60 seconds would be better than stunning a few enemies for 5 seconds, but I'm sure I'm missing something important there, because Voodoo Totem seems extremely powerful.

As this is a CC/utility tier you can choose whatever you want and it makes very little difference because it doesn't affect your DPS. That said, LST is recommended because stunning enemies is usually a lot more useful than hexing them, particularly in dungeons and raids. 

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I appreciate all the work put into your guides!

Quote

While both of these talents have merit, Primal Elementalist Icon Primal Elementalist pulls noticeably ahead on fights where single target is of the highest important, and you can get full effectiveness out of your elemental.

"important" should be "importance"

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I'm a little confused about the aoe rotation.

When you have 3 or more targets do you still maintain the full single target rotation but add earthquake or leave flame shock and lava burst out?

For example: aoe rotation= earthquake, earth shock >= 80 maelstrom and fill it up with chain lightning?

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2 minutes ago, Guest Shammy said:

I'm a little confused about the aoe rotation.

When you have 3 or more targets do you still maintain the full single target rotation but add earthquake or leave flame shock and lava burst out?

For example: aoe rotation= earthquake, earth shock >= 80 maelstrom and fill it up with chain lightning?

It depends on the context. If your primary goal is to spread you damage as evenly as possible among 3 targets, you can leave out FS and LB. If one target has higher importance than the other targets (as is usually the case) you should leave in FS and LB.

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1 hour ago, Guest Morf said:

Is the earthquake totem dead ?

 

No, it still deals decent sustained damage, but unfortunately it has a high cost and requires targets to live for most of its duration for it to be effective.

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Is crit really that much more superior than mastery? Granted I don't know what that stat numbers look like in raid gear, but the scaling is far better for mastery than crit. Would mastery not be equal in terms of value with crit with how much damage overload actually copies at 84%, so when you do crit that overload damage also reflects it. Let alone more consistent/predictable damage and MS generation for ES's, also with LR being on par with ascendance would that not also devalue crit to some effect? or does the 40% for LR only effect the initial LB cast and not the overload portion of it?

sorry for the mini wall  thanks for any info

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26 minutes ago, Guest will said:

Is crit really that much more superior than mastery? Granted I don't know what that stat numbers look like in raid gear, but the scaling is far better for mastery than crit. Would mastery not be equal in terms of value with crit with how much damage overload actually copies at 84%, so when you do crit that overload damage also reflects it. Let alone more consistent/predictable damage and MS generation for ES's, also with LR being on par with ascendance would that not also devalue crit to some effect? or does the 40% for LR only effect the initial LB cast and not the overload portion of it?

sorry for the mini wall  thanks for any info

Why does Mastery "scale" better than Critical Strike?

Mastery loses a lot of value because it doesn't interact with every spell, procs much lower return damage than Critical Strike, and doesn't proc Elemental Focus. Critical Strike also has excellent synergy with Ascendance, though even without Ascendance Critical Strike is still your best stat. The damage and Maelstrom generation also does not scale, so you're look at basically 175% damage and bonus Maelstrom on 3 spells (LB, Chain Lightning, and LvB) versus 250% damage + Elemental Focus on all spells + Ascendance burst. The damage bonus from Elemental Focus is also multiplicative with regular criticals.

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On 7/26/2016 at 7:12 PM, DLanceTF said:

Is the 4 piece bonus set worth keeping, I've noticed that the buff uptime is about 40%, less if i have good Surge procs.

Yep!

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Question for Mastery:  Actually with Shaman also in WoD you geht alot or % out or the # you put. Also the effect of it is not only 75% damage but also in top the Maelstrom. My question, I agree thst crit is better than Mastery, but isnt there a small amount or Mastery what would still make sense?

 

Second question: Is if interesting to go for a Icefury\Aftershock built? Especially Ehen thinking about having no T18-2p.

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2 hours ago, Guest Noshock said:

Question for Mastery:  Actually with Shaman also in WoD you geht alot or % out or the # you put. Also the effect of it is not only 75% damage but also in top the Maelstrom. My question, I agree thst crit is better than Mastery, but isnt there a small amount or Mastery what would still make sense?

 

Second question: Is if interesting to go for a Icefury\Aftershock built? Especially Ehen thinking about having no T18-2p.

Already answered a little further up in the comments if you want to check that response out. Icefury currently is a little too much sustain/too little burst to be good for HFC (since we're so so deep into farm) but it will be a great choice for EN progress in Legion.

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Hi, ist it possible to tell what the shaman will look like @110?

 

Personally, I loved the elemental in MoP. Stacking tempo until a certain cap was reached and then going for mastery.

Right now our matery is very very weak, but will this change with 110 or will the ele still favour crit / tempo?

What about the different races? Are they still balanced or will one race do exceptionally well?

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Hi Furty. Thank you for the guide, I found it really useful. I particularly like how you include comments on what is good for questing and dungeons as well as for raids. Thanks again.

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