Damien

Elemental Shaman 7.3

186 posts in this topic

This thread is for comments about our Elemental Shaman guide for Legion.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hey there, haven't seen anything within the current ele TC (which primarily thrives on the shaman discord) that supports some of the conclusions drawn here. The talent lines in question that have questionable advice are the 15, 75, and 100 talent lines. I'll speak about them in order below:

For the level 15 line, everything seems out of place. The current hierarchy for that line is the opposite of what's indicated here. Totem Mastery >= Earthen Rage > Path of Flame is what all current testing that we've seen has reflected. Earthen Rage is around equal for heavy movement, Totem Mastery stays on top for motionless combat and light movement, and Path of Flame outside of the occasional use for its niche via Flame Shock spreading has no use in a raid setting. Path of Flame has not had a use in a raid setting since it was nerfed from 10% Lava Burst damage to 5% Lava Burst damage.

For the level 75 line, the only issue I see is with the evaluation of Icefury & EF. Icefury for single-target is effectively equal to Elemental Fusion, and while both fall behind Primal Elementalist Icefury at least has a niche for fights that require quick target swaps such as Gorefiend or Archimonde. Elemental Fusion has no such benefit, as even with 2-3 flame shocks it still falls behind PE.

For the level 100 line, the primary issue is with Lightning Rod. With the recent nerf to Lava burst & nerfs to EM along with the recent hotfix buff to LR it has actually pulled very slightly ahead of Ascendance for single-target. As such, all 3 will end up having use in the pre-patch on different fights with different demands. None of the talents on that line are unworthy of use in raids.

I do also see a couple of errors in the descriptions of the spells themselves. Ancestral Swiftness was re-buffed to provide 10% haste but is listed as 8%, and Elemental Mastery is listed as 30% Haste when it has been nerfed all the way to 20%.

The only other thing I found that I disagreed with was the note on Earthquake usage in the rotation section. Earthquake surpasses Earth Shock at 3 targets, not 5.

In addition, this actually helped me out as it listed a trinket I had completely forgotten about when I was testing them out before so thanks for that!

If you wanted to chat with me about these I'd be more than happy to through the shaman discord or if you post in my 7.0 guide thread - http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/20745714928?page=1

I'll also try to keep an eye on this for replies as well.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hey Gistwiki, Icefury is actually correctly evaluated on the Rotation page but somehow that update didn't find it's way into the Talents section, good catch :) Going to wait for some more practical data before making any major changes to the end tier as it's pretty difficult to make any absolutely concrete assumptions in a prepatch before the patch itself is even live. I'll also get those descriptions updated ASAP, thanks for the hawk eyes :3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Another detail worth mentioning that in Sims, AS and Echo are practically equal when it comes to raw ST.

Echo, however, is much more lenient on the unavoidable Lava Surge losses that naturally happen. This a considerable gameplay upgrade. Specially, as Gist mentioned, on the fights were PoF can be used. Since both Ancestral Swiftness and Echo of the Elements are very equal on dps, it might be useful the consideration to leave it to personal choice, at least on Single Target fights.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I noticed that a few places it still reads Enhancement instead of Elemental for shaman - specifically on the Stat Priority page.

Also - will there be any pages added to discuss the Artifacts / Relics / Legendaries etc? Would be curious on build paths to follow / best Relics to slot. Thanks!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
16 hours ago, Sora said:

I noticed that a few places it still reads Enhancement instead of Elemental for shaman - specifically on the Stat Priority page.

Also - will there be any pages added to discuss the Artifacts / Relics / Legendaries etc? Would be curious on build paths to follow / best Relics to slot. Thanks!

The only mention was in the stat page and I fixed it :) Artifact stuff will be added when they become available :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, Guest Lina said:

What are the new stat weights? and would you choose a trinket with socket or a WF trinket?

Usually trinkets prefer warforged.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Everyone seems to have forgotten about Elemental Focus.

It might be passive, but you can manipulate the usage of Elemental Focus to min-max your damage.

Using Earth Shock when you have Elemental Focus up, guaranteed by Lava Burst.

You can delay Frost Shocks from Icefury, by fitting in LBs or until your next Lava Burst/Lava Surge to gain 10% additional damage on those Frost Shocks,

However, the travel time of Lava Burst delays the Elemental Focus activation, so an instant cast after Lava Burst won't gain the benefit from Elemental Focus. You can fit a single LB during the travel time.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Guest Mojo Jojo said:

Everyone seems to have forgotten about Elemental Focus.

It might be passive, but you can manipulate the usage of Elemental Focus to min-max your damage.

Using Earth Shock when you have Elemental Focus up, guaranteed by Lava Burst.

You can delay Frost Shocks from Icefury, by fitting in LBs or until your next Lava Burst/Lava Surge to gain 10% additional damage on those Frost Shocks,

However, the travel time of Lava Burst delays the Elemental Focus activation, so an instant cast after Lava Burst won't gain the benefit from Elemental Focus. You can fit a single LB during the travel time.

I'll make a note of it to be safe, but part of the benefit of stacking Critical Strike is that Focus is up nearly all the time :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm a little confused. In Tier 3, why is Lightning Surge Totem considered better than Voodoo Totem? Isn't Voodoo an AOE version of Hex? I would think that hexing a few enemies for 60 seconds would be better than stunning a few enemies for 5 seconds, but I'm sure I'm missing something important there, because Voodoo Totem seems extremely powerful.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Guest Baluki said:

I'm a little confused. In Tier 3, why is Lightning Surge Totem considered better than Voodoo Totem? Isn't Voodoo an AOE version of Hex? I would think that hexing a few enemies for 60 seconds would be better than stunning a few enemies for 5 seconds, but I'm sure I'm missing something important there, because Voodoo Totem seems extremely powerful.

As this is a CC/utility tier you can choose whatever you want and it makes very little difference because it doesn't affect your DPS. That said, LST is recommended because stunning enemies is usually a lot more useful than hexing them, particularly in dungeons and raids. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I appreciate all the work put into your guides!

Quote

While both of these talents have merit, Primal Elementalist Icon Primal Elementalist pulls noticeably ahead on fights where single target is of the highest important, and you can get full effectiveness out of your elemental.

"important" should be "importance"

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm a little confused about the aoe rotation.

When you have 3 or more targets do you still maintain the full single target rotation but add earthquake or leave flame shock and lava burst out?

For example: aoe rotation= earthquake, earth shock >= 80 maelstrom and fill it up with chain lightning?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Guest Shammy said:

I'm a little confused about the aoe rotation.

When you have 3 or more targets do you still maintain the full single target rotation but add earthquake or leave flame shock and lava burst out?

For example: aoe rotation= earthquake, earth shock >= 80 maelstrom and fill it up with chain lightning?

It depends on the context. If your primary goal is to spread you damage as evenly as possible among 3 targets, you can leave out FS and LB. If one target has higher importance than the other targets (as is usually the case) you should leave in FS and LB.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Guest Morf said:

Is the earthquake totem dead ?

 

No, it still deals decent sustained damage, but unfortunately it has a high cost and requires targets to live for most of its duration for it to be effective.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Is crit really that much more superior than mastery? Granted I don't know what that stat numbers look like in raid gear, but the scaling is far better for mastery than crit. Would mastery not be equal in terms of value with crit with how much damage overload actually copies at 84%, so when you do crit that overload damage also reflects it. Let alone more consistent/predictable damage and MS generation for ES's, also with LR being on par with ascendance would that not also devalue crit to some effect? or does the 40% for LR only effect the initial LB cast and not the overload portion of it?

sorry for the mini wall  thanks for any info

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
26 minutes ago, Guest will said:

Is crit really that much more superior than mastery? Granted I don't know what that stat numbers look like in raid gear, but the scaling is far better for mastery than crit. Would mastery not be equal in terms of value with crit with how much damage overload actually copies at 84%, so when you do crit that overload damage also reflects it. Let alone more consistent/predictable damage and MS generation for ES's, also with LR being on par with ascendance would that not also devalue crit to some effect? or does the 40% for LR only effect the initial LB cast and not the overload portion of it?

sorry for the mini wall  thanks for any info

Why does Mastery "scale" better than Critical Strike?

Mastery loses a lot of value because it doesn't interact with every spell, procs much lower return damage than Critical Strike, and doesn't proc Elemental Focus. Critical Strike also has excellent synergy with Ascendance, though even without Ascendance Critical Strike is still your best stat. The damage and Maelstrom generation also does not scale, so you're look at basically 175% damage and bonus Maelstrom on 3 spells (LB, Chain Lightning, and LvB) versus 250% damage + Elemental Focus on all spells + Ascendance burst. The damage bonus from Elemental Focus is also multiplicative with regular criticals.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Is the 4 piece bonus set worth keeping, I've noticed that the buff uptime is about 40%, less if i have good Surge procs.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 7/26/2016 at 7:12 PM, DLanceTF said:

Is the 4 piece bonus set worth keeping, I've noticed that the buff uptime is about 40%, less if i have good Surge procs.

Yep!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Question for Mastery:  Actually with Shaman also in WoD you geht alot or % out or the # you put. Also the effect of it is not only 75% damage but also in top the Maelstrom. My question, I agree thst crit is better than Mastery, but isnt there a small amount or Mastery what would still make sense?

 

Second question: Is if interesting to go for a Icefury\Aftershock built? Especially Ehen thinking about having no T18-2p.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Guest Noshock said:

Question for Mastery:  Actually with Shaman also in WoD you geht alot or % out or the # you put. Also the effect of it is not only 75% damage but also in top the Maelstrom. My question, I agree thst crit is better than Mastery, but isnt there a small amount or Mastery what would still make sense?

 

Second question: Is if interesting to go for a Icefury\Aftershock built? Especially Ehen thinking about having no T18-2p.

Already answered a little further up in the comments if you want to check that response out. Icefury currently is a little too much sustain/too little burst to be good for HFC (since we're so so deep into farm) but it will be a great choice for EN progress in Legion.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi, ist it possible to tell what the shaman will look like @110?

 

Personally, I loved the elemental in MoP. Stacking tempo until a certain cap was reached and then going for mastery.

Right now our matery is very very weak, but will this change with 110 or will the ele still favour crit / tempo?

What about the different races? Are they still balanced or will one race do exceptionally well?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi Furty. Thank you for the guide, I found it really useful. I particularly like how you include comments on what is good for questing and dungeons as well as for raids. Thanks again.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

  • Similar Content

    • By Stan
      Blizzard agrees that earning Azerite Armor in Mythic+ feels overly based on luck and in Tides of Vengeance, players will have more control over the Azerite gear they earn through Mythic+.
      Blizzard is adding a new currency in Patch 8.1, which you'll earn from your weekly Mythic+ chest and from scrapping and disenchanting epic-quality Azerite Armor. The weekly chest will no longer reward Azerite Armor. Thaumaturge Vashreen will be selling caches that reward a random dungeon Azerite Armor piece for a given slot that will be separated by item level.
      To give players even more control over Azerite Armor, Vashreen will also offer ilvl 385 versions of the specific dungeon Azerite Armor pieces for each class, sold at premium.
      Only Azerite Armor scrapped in 8.1 will yield the new currency. Vashreen's wares will increase accordingly when the second Mythic+ season starts.
      Blizzard (Source)
      Couple quick clarifications based on feedback so far: Only Azerite Armor that drops after Tides of Vengeance is released will scrap/disenchant into the new currency. Don't worry about hoarding the Azerite pieces you're earning now. When the next Mythic+ season starts, and item levels increase, the item levels of Thaumaturge Vashreen's wares will increase accordingly. We recognize that PvPers want more options and choice too. We're talking about that separately. Check out our Tides of Vengeance content hub for the latest Patch 8.1 information.
      Blizzard (Source)
      Throughout the discussions regarding Azerite Armor, there’s been a lot of talk about how you earn Azerite pieces from Mythic+ dungeons. Players have told us – and we agree – that the process of earning Azerite Armor through Mythic+ feels overly based on luck, and that there isn’t enough control in the players’ hands. Even with our bad luck protection systems in place, the sheer number of potential Azerite pieces you can get from the weekly chest means that trying to get ahold of a specific piece feels hopeless. That’s a problem we want to solve, and give you some control over the Azerite gear you earn through Mythic+. So here’s what we’re working on for Tides of Vengeance:
      First, we’re adding a new (as yet unnamed) currency, which you’ll earn from your weekly Mythic+ chest as well as from scrapping (or disenchanting) epic-quality Azerite Armor. This currency is rewarded in addition to the item in the chest (which can no longer be an Azerite piece), and the amount you earn will scale up exponentially based on the highest level Keystone you’ve completed. For example, completing a level 10 Keystone will reward you with about three times as much as clearing a level 7. Similarly, scrapping higher-item-level Azerite pieces will give you significantly higher amounts of this currency than lower-level pieces.

      To spend that currency, we’re bringing back an old friend: Thaumaturge Vashreen. He’ll have two main types of items for sale. The first are caches that reward a random dungeon Azerite Armor piece for a given slot (helm, shoulders, or chest). They’ll be separated out by item level as well (at 355, 370, and 385), with higher item level caches requiring significantly more currency to purchase. But we recognize that with six or more options per slot, this may still not be enough control for high-end players who want to be able to work towards a specific piece that perfectly complements their build. Thus, Vashreen will also offer Item Level 385 versions of the specific dungeon Azerite Armor pieces for each class, sold at a premium.
      We’re still nailing down the exact numbers, but our goal for tuning this new currency is that you’ll be able to purchase one of the Azerite caches that lines up roughly with the item level of the gear you’re getting from your Mythic+ runs every two or three weeks, with the specific 385 pieces as long-term goals for top players.
      Overall, we believe that this change will improve things in a lot of different ways:
      Mythic+ players of all skill levels will now have a clear path to upgrading their Azerite slots High-end Mythic+ players will have a way to target specific Azerite pieces to optimize their setups Duplicate or unwanted Azerite pieces from other sources (such as raiding) now have some additional value The piece of gear in your weekly chest will have a more reliable item level You should see all of this hitting the Tides of Vengeance PTR sometime in the next week or so. We really do appreciate your feedback, and believe that this, in addition to the new traits and other improvements coming to the Azerite system in Tides of Vengeance, will help ease a lot of the concerns about Azerite Armor in Mythic+ and as a whole.
    • By Chumani
      Inevitable Destiny   (H)Corrupted Destiny guild Skywall/Drak'thul US realm😎 JOIN US!
      We are currently 8/8 Normal Uldir and 2/8 Heroic Uldir  -- Kickin' ass and hell with their names!
      1st  raid - Sun/Tues/Thurs 600-830pst
      2nd raid - Fri/Mon 530-800pst
      We ARE one of Skywall's largest and oldest standing guilds! Very active with a large player base. ALWAYS something going on, mythic dungeon runs, normal runs for alts, Island Expeditions, Arathi Highlands Warfront, PVP events.... always something!!!
      Come experience the reason a guild as old as CD continues to stand and stand strong year after year after year! Come...... and get.... CORRUPTED!!!
      Chu#12466 or Deni#1743
    • By Stan
      Blizzard buffed Chain Heal and redesigned High Tide in this week's 8.1 Build 28151.
      UPDATE
      Blizzard (Source)
      Quick update: the buff will have a longer duration in the next build. It is intended to be less of a "press button when it lights up" proc, and more something you can plan to use. This also should take stress off of knowing exactly when it will trigger (which is not something we want the talent to be about micromanaging). Chain Heal
      Received a healing increase, baking in most of the value of the previous High Tide that has been redesigned. High Tide
      OLD: Chain Heal bounces to 1 additional target, and its falloff with each bounce is reduced by half. NEW: Every 150 mana you spend brings a High Tide, making your next 2 Chain Heals heal for an additional 20% and not reduce with each jump. Check out our Tides of Vengeance hub for the latest Patch 8.1 information!
      Blizzard (Source)
      Just to avoid any confusion that may be occurring due to tooltips on PTR: Chain Heal's base functionality is unchanged, other than receiving a large healing increase (roughly speaking, baking in most of the value of the previous High Tide). High Tide is redesigned, but is still a passive--the mana cost in the tooltip header is an error. Brief context: as a passive buff to every Chain Heal, High Tide was putting it in an awkward position where the base skill wasn't very prominent in the toolkit if you used other talents. The goal here is to both put Chain Heal back on the map while using Ascendance or Wellspring in any type of content, and also provide a talent option which allows for strong moments centered around very large Chain Heals.
      Usual PTR disclaimers: still under iteration, open to feedback, not necessarily tuned.
    • By Stan
      Naowh recently cleared Freehold +11 and Atal'Dazar +12 in time with a group of five Blood Death Knights.
      Both keystone runs have been completed with the following affixes active:
      Fortified Bolstering Skittish Infested Freehold Clear (Mythic +11)
      The group completed the run with 5 minutes and 14 seconds remaining (30:46 / 36:00).
      Atal'Dazar Clear (Mythic +12)
      The clear was completed in 29 minutes and 17 seconds.
    • By Stan
      New models for this week's 8.1 PTR build include baby raptors, Mekkatorque, 7th Legion riflemen & Zandalari guards.
      Check out our Tides of Vengeance hub for the latest Patch 8.1 information!
      Baby Raptors

      7th Legion Rifleman (Female)

      7th Legion Rifleman (Male)

      Mekkatorque
      The High Tinker is a boss in the upcoming Battle of Dazar'alor raid and thus received a brand new model.

      Zandari Caster (Female)

      Zandalari Guard (Male)

      Zandalari Honor Guard (Male)