Restoration Shaman 7.3

[Guest Sotmrshadow]

Hey guys thanks for the guide but i have a question regarding restoration trinkets, i just got a 880 ilvl Nether Anti-Toxin from my weekly m+ box and i'm wondering if it's an upgrade. 

[Pandacho 286]

2 hours ago, Guest Sotmrshadow said:

Hey guys thanks for the guide but i have a question regarding restoration trinkets, i just got a 880 ilvl Nether Anti-Toxin from my weekly m+ box and i'm wondering if it's an upgrade. 

Well, honestly, I'm not sure it's any upgrade for a resto shaman. Versatility is not a preferable secondary for us in any way and this trinket does not have Int or any other stat. You can be generous for other raiders randomly buffing them with Haste but it's not a buff for you as a healer. Looking at logs at the HoT healing part, it's pretty much underwhelming. I hardly found 2-4 users to check in Nythendra/Elethere/Ursoc Mythic logs and the healing done by HoT was somewhere around 1.5%. 

I wouldn't suggest you to use this trinket.

[asrodel 0]

On 10/16/2016 at 2:15 AM, Pandacho said:

I'm not good in trinkets comparison so I went to check Mythic EN logs and actually was hardly able to find anyone with the Horn. Its 'on use' ability is very underwhelming: 100K healing is even not funny. I checked Mythic Nythendra, Ursoc and Xavius - on none of these fights it did even 1% of total healing while for example Vial of Nightmare Fog does steady 4%.

So it looks like the Horn is not a very good choice for the resto shamans. You can keep it for the Mastery part but better use something else.

So it aoe heals on impact. It needs to be used that way. It can absolutely be worth it on certain fights. 100k to all targets within a certain range. It has a 5 target cap so 5 targets every 1 min should be like 5 uses on a 6 min fight maybe. Potentially 2.5mil heals, not shabby for a trinket with a bunch of mastery. I don't have a vial to test it against, but i usually prefer things I can control and for that same reason I like the mastery over the crit on vial. Also the wisp is slow as molasses making it precastable before large aoe mechanics.

Though the point on logs is important, if people aren't seeing the theory in reality then use something different, but I'd say try very hard to use it correctly first and then see if it doesn't measure up.

Edited October 20, 2016 by asrodel

[Pandacho 286]

21 minutes ago, asrodel said:

So it aoe heals on impact. It needs to be used that way. It can absolutely be worth it on certain fights. 100k to all targets within a certain range. It has a 5 target cap so 5 targets every 1 min should be like 5 uses on a 6 min fight maybe. Potentially 2.5mil heals, not shabby for a trinket with a bunch of mastery. I don't have a vial to test it against, but i usually prefer things I can control and for that same reason I like the mastery over the crit on vial. Also the wisp is slow as molasses making it precastable before large aoe mechanics.

Though the point on logs is important, if people aren't seeing the theory in reality then use something different, but I'd say try very hard to use it correctly first and then see if it doesn't measure up.

Well, this is the reason I check Mythic Ursoc logs among the others. It's a full time stack fight with an insane damage on raid which gives us an opportunity to have at least 5 people that constantly need healing near the healer with the minimal distance to travel for the wisp.

Checking Healing done by Vial vs Horn from just 4 first resto shamans in logs:

Vial: 3M (2%) / 2.6M (1.89%)

Horn: 1.56M (1.18%) / 1.21M (0.81%)

And here's even better - a resto shaman that had both trinkets on Ursoc M. His Vial did 3.45M (2.38%) of healing while Horn did 2.08M (1.44%).

And this is the actual difference between theory and practice: many times we have to adapt our healing to the reality of fight with raiders running away from your shield, dead healers, people stupidly standing in shit to pad dps meters, forcing you to spam CH and so on. 

Having another button to think about (Horn trinket) adds even more pressure. Would it be better or just on pair with other trinkets than well, we'd have to soak it. But it's not according to the logs.

So it's definitely up to you whether to use the Horn. If you feel that it suits your playstyle and allows you to heal better - use it :)

[Guest Rudy199]

What is this ''vial'' trinket and where do i get it?

[Pandacho 286]

6 hours ago, Guest Rudy199 said:

What is this ''vial'' trinket and where do i get it?

Vial of Nightmare Fog trinket drops from Dragons of Nightmare in EN.

[Guest Sotmrshadow]

Thanks for the reply Pandacho. Managed to get my hands on a 860 ilvl  Chrono Shard and on a 840 ilvl An'she's Infusion of Light with mastery, which one of those is better to pair up with Heightened Senses?

[Valks 2,407]

9 hours ago, Guest Sotmrshadow said:

Thanks for the reply Pandacho. Managed to get my hands on a 860 ilvl  Chrono Shard and on a 840 ilvl An'she's Infusion of Light with mastery, which one of those is better to pair up with Heightened Senses?

Even though she says she's not the best with trinkets, I'm sure she knows more than me! Going to tag her for you so she gets a notification of your post :) @Pandacho

[Pandacho 286]

11 hours ago, Guest Sotmrshadow said:

Thanks for the reply Pandacho. Managed to get my hands on a 860 ilvl  Chrono Shard and on a 840 ilvl An'she's Infusion of Light with mastery, which one of those is better to pair up with Heightened Senses?

I actually still use a 850 ilvl Chrono Shard and think that it's absolutely awesome. I even use it above a 880 ilvl Cocoon of Enforced Solitude.

The thing is that you have Heightenend Senses that already boosts your Haste so honestly, adding the Shard to it would be a waste. I personally would rather go for the Shard+Infusion to have a nice amount of Intellect+Mastery from Infusion and 30% uptime of 7400 Haste + 15% Speed from the Shard. But you can go for Senses+Infusion, it's fine too and more mana conservative.

What I don't really like in Senses that its uptime is random - I saw the logs between 19% and 39% which is a double difference, while having the Shard you can pretty much focus on other than Haste secondaries (7420 is a huge amount).

DL;DR: use Shard+Infusion (if you like a lot of Haste and mobility and don't have a lot of Haste on gear) or Senses+Infusion but not Shard+Senses.

 

[Plainsrunner 0]

Not sure if this is the right place for this, but you have a typo in your changelog. " In Patch 7.1, Torrent provides a 30% bonus to Riptide’s initial heal (was 30% before)." I believe it should say "was 40%."

[Valks 2,407]

On 10/28/2016 at 6:14 AM, Plainsrunner said:

Not sure if this is the right place for this, but you have a typo in your changelog. " In Patch 7.1, Torrent provides a 30% bonus to Riptide’s initial heal (was 30% before)." I believe it should say "was 40%."

Thanks for the heads up, will leave a note about it! :)

[Guest Valgen]

Just a small thing; Unleash Life, one of the tier one talents, increases your next direct heal by 45% now (instead of 30%). I think it works on the initial heal from Riptide, as well. Maybe it's a better choice than Torrent?

[Guest Tenbatsu]

i disagree with a few "bis" items though, especially because the stat prio is Mastery -> intellect -> crit -> haste -> versa.

so getting Haste Mastery items, is not bis. you can even drop 100 mastery, to get 1k crit instead of 1k haste, because the difference is quite significant, when it comes to mana control.

[Pandacho 286]

2 hours ago, Guest Tenbatsu said:

i disagree with a few "bis" items though, especially because the stat prio is Mastery -> intellect -> crit -> haste -> versa.

so getting Haste Mastery items, is not bis. you can even drop 100 mastery, to get 1k crit instead of 1k haste, because the difference is quite significant, when it comes to mana control.

Can you please point at the source of your stat prio statement and some math supporting it if you don't mind?

[Valks 2,407]

On 11/5/2016 at 6:55 AM, Guest Valgen said:

Just a small thing; Unleash Life, one of the tier one talents, increases your next direct heal by 45% now (instead of 30%). I think it works on the initial heal from Riptide, as well. Maybe it's a better choice than Torrent?

Will pass that on, thanks! Not sure if it affects the choice, but Furty can decide on that.

[Valks 2,407]

19 hours ago, Guest Tenbatsu said:

i disagree with a few "bis" items though, especially because the stat prio is Mastery -> intellect -> crit -> haste -> versa.

so getting Haste Mastery items, is not bis. you can even drop 100 mastery, to get 1k crit instead of 1k haste, because the difference is quite significant, when it comes to mana control.

This does, of course, depend on how you weight stats. I'm not saying this is the case, but let's say the weights are:

Mastery (15), Intellect (4), Crit (2), Haste (1), Vers (0.5)

In this case, it is worth it. Obviously I am exaggerating to make the point here, but what weights would you put on the stats to say that it is wrong? It's worth posting to show us why 1k Crit is worth more than 100 Mastery and 1k Haste. 

[Guest Thunder]

Some1 of you use any haste breakpoint ?Because i search everywhere and i dont see any Haste breakpoints for Rshamy...?

[Pandacho 286]

16 hours ago, Guest Thunder said:

Some1 of you use any haste breakpoint ?Because i search everywhere and i dont see any Haste breakpoints for Rshamy...?

There's no Haste or any other breakpoints for Resto in Legion.

[Guest Rainiar]

When it comes to Stat distribution do resto shamans want to just stack Mastery/critical and avoid haste/versatility like the plague?  This is with raid healing in mind.  Or is there a good Stat distribution that should be a goal? 

Thanks in advance and thanks for the guide.

[Pandacho 286]

15 hours ago, Guest Rainiar said:

When it comes to Stat distribution do resto shamans want to just stack Mastery/critical and avoid haste/versatility like the plague?  This is with raid healing in mind.  Or is there a good Stat distribution that should be a goal? 

Thanks in advance and thanks for the guide.

You shouldn't avoid any of the secondaries and definitely not like a plague. We are not adps spec that really sometimes have only 1-2 secondaries doing 95% contribution to their dps.

Resto shamans have a priority but the importance of all the secondaries is high (with maybe Versa falling behind a bit). The general prio would be Int > Mastery > Haste or Crit (depends on your philosophy, but they are so close in row numbers that it's not extremely important) > Vers.

You should never dismiss any of the secondaries completely, they all contribute to our healing.

PS: don't stack ridiculous amounts of Mastery either (much more than 100%) or you'll end up being pretty bad in healing any 'regular' content that doesn't involve people being consistently lower than 50% HP.

[Guest shammyjake]

So i have a theorycraft question.  CBT is the cookie cutter talent for that tier, but wouldn't you think that with our weapon talents(Queen's Decree and Tidal Pools) that Echo would feed better into our talents and thus provide more throughput?  The initial healing from extra RT's alone more than covers the loss of throughput from CBT.  I think the only reason CBT is favored is because the synergy w/ AG and if you pick it wellspring.  What are your guys' thoughts?

[Pandacho 286]

5 hours ago, Guest shammyjake said:

So i have a theorycraft question.  CBT is the cookie cutter talent for that tier, but wouldn't you think that with our weapon talents(Queen's Decree and Tidal Pools) that Echo would feed better into our talents and thus provide more throughput?  The initial healing from extra RT's alone more than covers the loss of throughput from CBT.  I think the only reason CBT is favored is because the synergy w/ AG and if you pick it wellspring.  What are your guys' thoughts?

Hmm, no one picks Wellspring in raids or high M+ right now. The last time it was recommended, was actually before the first raid opened in September. What you've wrote is actually a pretty accurate reminder of the Beta resto discussion before the last wave of nerfs went live :)

The situation may or may not change in 7.1.5 with the small buff to WS incoming but until now the talent is a no taker (I personally use it in the daily HC dungeon when I dps 80% of time and WS+Riptide+HST is enough to cover all the damage).

Now, there is no strict answer to your question because CBT is not a 100% best. It is the best for the most of the raid fights so far (still not for the all of them) but EotE is definitely better for M+.

CBT is better in raids first and foremost because it's a smart AoE heal that releases its stored power to all injured targets and you can attach it to AoE damage waves and even if there're no AoE damage, it still will heal all the injured people on release. While Riptide's initial heal is pretty strong,  it's a single target cast and we can't blanket the raid with Riptides in advance - if you start to precast Riptide, the initial healing part will be wasted, if you cast it after the damage done, how many people you'll be able to HoT in the 10 sec.recovery window - 3 at the best?

When you say that the "initial healing from extra RT's alone more than covers the loss of throughput from CBT", do you look at the raid or only at the number of Healing Done? It's not the same and I'll try to give an example: Let's say we are doing Ursoc Mythic and your team just soaked the Impact. All the team is on 30% HP and you release stored in your CBT power. Now all the team is on 50% HP and can live through the Roar that will drop some of the people to 20-25% HP. If you took EotE, you will be able to bring (let's be generous) 4 people to 80%HP, leaving 6 on 30% and with the Roar incoming there's a good chance you'll have 1-2 players dead.

This is a very general example but I tried to show that in raid not everything is measured by Healing Done, the spreading of your healing should be right too.

TL;DR: CBT is good for the raids (mostly), EotE is good for M+ (always better than CBT), WS is good for non of them (may change in 7.1.5).

[Guest CBT]

So basically it just becomes a minor cool down is what you're saying... and super powered if we choose AG

[Pandacho 286]

57 minutes ago, Guest CBT said:

So basically it just becomes a minor cool down is what you're saying... and super powered if we choose AG

Yes, pretty much it is.

For example here you can see a standard AG+CBT pair doing 4.1M burst that is actually a mana free byproduct of the regular healing.

[Valks 2,407]

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