Benefits of Mistwaving vs. Fistweaving in raids?

[Apury 0]

Hello there! :)

 

I did read through the Mistweaver article on Icy-veins but I couldn't find a real declaration of the differences in performance when it comes to mistweaving vs. fistweaving. Up until now I thought that fistweaving wouldn't be viable for raiding. Especially with the easy changes from heal to dps. Once the boss is on farm, windwalker would probably do more dps. Sure, there would be the case where some off healing is required, but I'm currently tlaking about raid progression. 

I could imagine to make double monk setups a bit more viable that way, due to the range/player limitations on Essence Font, hence the fistweaver could heal the melee camp and the mistweaver the range one but when it come sto throughput I just lack the knowledge. I did read that fistweaver don't count as melees anymore so they can be affected by spells that target range dps and (unless I did overread it) the off heal from doing actual DPS is also gone. So it is basically the mana reg mechanic to put out more expensive heals. 

I surely have to catch-up on a lot of knowledge but a little roundup would be lovely :). 

 

[Valks 2,373]

24 minutes ago, Apury said:

Hello there! :)

 

I did read through the Mistweaver article on Icy-veins but I couldn't find a real declaration of the differences in performance when it comes to mistweaving vs. fistweaving. Up until now I thought that fistweaving wouldn't be viable for raiding. Especially with the easy changes from heal to dps. Once the boss is on farm, windwalker would probably do more dps. Sure, there would be the case where some off healing is required, but I'm currently tlaking about raid progression. 

I could imagine to make double monk setups a bit more viable that way, due to the range/player limitations on Essence Font, hence the fistweaver could heal the melee camp and the mistweaver the range one but when it come sto throughput I just lack the knowledge. I did read that fistweaver don't count as melees anymore so they can be affected by spells that target range dps and (unless I did overread it) the off heal from doing actual DPS is also gone. So it is basically the mana reg mechanic to put out more expensive heals. 

I surely have to catch-up on a lot of knowledge but a little roundup would be lovely :). 

 

I think the key thing to understand here is that Fistweaving is not done to make you do DPS. Yes, it can help with certain timers or killing things, but in reality, it is done because it is a very small increase to your HEALING.

By taking certain talents, you can reset the cooldown of certain abilities and restore mana. This will end up in a very small increase in healing, but a large complication of the rotation. In honesty, people that fistweave are more likely to screw it up and ruin their rotation, therefore resulting in a loss of healing because they don't properly understand that Fistweaving is not about doing as much DPS as possible while off-healing. 

Fistweaving is using damage spells to help your healing get better. You are still a healer, not an offhealer or DPS. 

As the guide section on Fistweaving says:

Quote

...this playstyle offers only a minor increase in healing at the expense of complication the rotation...

 

[Apury 0]

I see! :) Thank youf or pointing that out. It seems like I did overread that sentence. Legion wasn't exactly great with giving me time to sleep ;p. However, do you perhaps know ressources to back that statement up, so that I know what I'm looking at? A sim that calculates messing up into it to see how much of an effect it has would be great. I'm well aware that the effect depends on how hard you mess up but well. 

Furthermore, what about the fistweaver count as ranges statement? Is that still a thing and if so, how badly does it affect the surely crowded melee hitbox?

[Valks 2,373]

2 minutes ago, Apury said:

I see! :) Thank youf or pointing that out. It seems like I did overread that sentence. Legion wasn't exactly great with giving me time to sleep ;p. However, do you perhaps know ressources to back that statement up, so that I know what I'm looking at? A sim that calculates messing up into it to see how much of an effect it has would be great. I'm well aware that the effect depends on how hard you mess up but well. 

Furthermore, what about the fistweaver count as ranges statement? Is that still a thing and if so, how badly does it affect the surely crowded melee hitbox?

I'll be honest, I don't know how to sim a rotation with errors. Perhaps someone else can help with that, since I wouldn't know how to include the errors, if it is possible. 

Do you remember when you saw this? Last time I saw this, Monks were actually the one healer that was classed as Melee. This has maybe changed, I'm not sure.

[Apury 0]

It wasn't too long ago. Like .. 1-2 months? I know that in at least WoD and prbably also MoP monks were concidered as melees to not get affected by range spells. However, here are posts that have it stated in it, but I couldn't find a real source:

19.dec " Meele DPS abilitys are pointless because we don't count as a meele. "

http://eu.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/16884964142

And here is a whole thread from 2.dec that talks about a "statement". So also not confirmed. 

http://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/20042844746

But none of those is the initial one that I saw. Could've been in a video of someone showing it in beta. I just have this superficial "knowledge" about it. Hence I'm wondering. 

[Pandacho 286]

I linked the last Blizz post regarding melee/ranged if it helps.

Here's the post: link