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Shadowcraft vs Ask mr robot!!! (+ bonus question)

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Hi guys!!!!Posted Image

First, sorry for my english it is not my native language.

Ok. I have two questions. Sorry if it is noob questions!I have tried to think about it but no clue.Posted Image

First question : Shadowcraft vs Ask mr robot.

OK do not understand. I have reforged my stuff according stat prio for assassination rogue.I like do it by myself Posted Image it is part of the game i think.

Quick check with "ask mr robot". It is sounds fine.

After I used shadowcraft and do not understand. He advises me to reforge most of my stat with haste and not mastery. And propose different gemming with more haste

I have put you below the two proposal of optimization with the two links. I am more agree with ask mr robot but maybe i am missing something (to be honest I am sure, I am relatively new player)

Is it like combat rogue where up to some point you can prefer haste to agi?

Hope I am not doing wrong since the beginning.

Ask mr robot


Shadow craft


Second question : choice between question

Ok sure this question is bad

So you have my link to armory with ask mr robot juste above.

You can see my dagger.

I gained this one :


with +412 hit and + 421 expertise

If I swicht I win + 526,1 dps

BUT If i take into account the gemming : I lost 120 agi and 393 mastery or 220 agi and 414 haste according the weapon I change.

Agi and mastery are my main stat. So does the gain in white hit will be ok vs the lose of my main stat? If I make the calculation in relative change for the different stat I am not convince.

For this question I am sure I am wrong. But would like to understand more.

Thanks for having read the post and if you have time to help me to better understand my rogue, I would be really grateful

sand i would finish by : heeeeeeeeeeeeeeelp -_-

cheers Posted Image


Edited by Slevin
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I always prefer to use Shadowcraft, along with using simcraft for advanced testing.

Haste over mastery is actually correct now.

When using your legendary meta plus 2 RPPM (real procs per minute) trinkets haste becomes better.

More haste = more trinket procs and more meta procs.

You are getting a DPS increase from the new weapon because the actual DPS on the weapon is higher.

DPS on the weapon in your main hand is better than any stats.

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wow thanks

quick ,clear and usefull

I will stick to this.

I will try sim craft to see what it is.

I v read about the RPPM but did not cougth the reason why, and thougth it was for heroic trinket only.Now it is crystal clear how I was wrong :P

Thanks very much again.

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Hi me again!

I have started quicly before leaving to reoptimize according your advices and new lfr loot(2nd token!!)

i have not finished and made what i had in bank rigth now.so do not judge me on my current optimisation:p

I am afraid that i wont be able to finish for the raid of tonight,specially cause of the new gemms to buy.i will have a mix between ask mr robot view and shadowcraft view!guess it is still better than the old optimization.

Two questions popped up in my mind following your advice!

1/ i have already loose 2% of mastery.is there a treshold to not go below for mastery,ex 80%? I think by shifting some other mastery stat for haste it is possible that i go below this rate of mastery.

2/if haste is now so important,why not use gemms + 320 haste?

Hope my questions are clear enough.


Edited by Slevin

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although i don´t have a rogue, i will still try to answer your questions:

1. there is no treshold or soft cap for mastery, it just adds damage to your poisons.

2. do not forget the other stats, f.e. with your current gear, shadowcraft gives the following stat weights for haste and agility:

agility: 2.739

haste: 1.228

let´s compare the haste only and the haste+agil gem:

quick sun´s radiance(haste)= 320*1.228 = 392.96

Deft Vermilion Onyx(agil+haste)= 80*2.739 + 160*1.228 = 415.6

And with the Agil+haste gem you can unlock 2 socket colors(red and yellow) instead of one for socket bonus

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Ok great.thanks it is clear.first time i understand how to calculate dps gain thanks weigth

Thks very much

I had the time to optimize according your devices just before raiding.

I would like to share my thougths,would be happy to discuss with you about it,if you want to share your experience.

First it is fun and smoother than before to play with more haste and with the set bonus :-)

Regarding my temmates yesterday i did good on bosses,but not on trash with short figth.

I think it is normal,as the reforge is based on proc,on shirt figth i havnt the time to benefit fully of the proc.

In addition i lost 25 percent of mastery.so maybe this is a lost for short figth and oae.

What do you think?

I am totaly confident in your advice and.will stick to this,but for me it is stressfull to drop so much mastery,poison being my main source of dps.+ when i have applied poison i can dps without being on the mob.

So maybe in practice i have the feeling that i should make a up between mastery and haste to rise my mastery a little bit(79%)

But i think i am too naive in theorycraft to be selfconfident on it.

If you want to discuss with me about it would be happy.



Edited by Slevin

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Hi up!!!

as you were quick before, maybe my attempt of thgouh is stupid?

Any advice is welcome :)

Still puzzled by all this stuff. I made some test in raid, my dps was bigger with more mastery.But I still believe that I am missing something


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In my current gear (527) I would lose about ~1k dps if doing mastery>haste instead of haste>mastery (I have legendary meta + 2 rppm trinkets) according to shadowcraft. What it actually means is that the more haste you have, the higher your mastery value is and vice versa. I run with 9-10k haste and 7k mastery unbuffed. That leaves me them both pretty equal and I enjoy running with more haste than more mastery cause I like rng :P. (more envenom uptime!).

Now for the actual answer. These days your dps depends VERY much from procs. You can't just say your dps was better with full mastery.

Going for full mastery makes you less reliant on trinket procs and is better on bosses where there is downtime on bosses, so you cant attack them. But now when I'm weighting haste, I don't just think the increased procs, but you have to remember increased energy regen, increased envenom uptime, increased poison procs, increased auto attacks.

When you add those, and that you have some mastery, I would do haste>~mastery>>>>>>crit reforging like you have atm. Mastery % "tresholds" don't matter, because they don't exist. Keep your gear at that and I'm pretty sure you rank up high on everything but trash. We just aren't good at it if they die fast.

I hope you understood something, it's 5 am here :P Going to sleep now. If you've got more to discuss, go ahead ;)

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Hi yes pretty clear.will come back to you in the coming next week end.after a full.week try.thanks for puting me in the rigth path (again).:)

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I said that I would come back to share


In a first time a switch to haste rogue, enough to be funny to play with keeping a certain amount of mastery(for various reason).

It did great

Now I have switched full haste(but I still prioritize to keep my hit and expertise cap even with  some stat could be still shifted to haste according Shadow craft ),it is doing great too.


Thks for having helping me during this "hard-questionning" period smile.png. I really appreciated.


To complete this post I put below 2 knwon links that helped me, in addition to our discussion, to confirm some feeling about haste vs mastery but also discover new thing about haste.





Edited by Slevin

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