T16 Warlock Style - Heroic & Mythic

[Omaric 246]

I don't think we could have randomly said basically the same things any better sir.  Cheers.

 

Except your use of the Fire and Brimstone acronym.  Come to the dark side, where acronyms are evil and correct!

[Skyrge 9]

Thanks guys. Makes sense Omaric, I will try to wait til they're stacked. Do I have the discipline to wait while our Enh Shamm spikes up to 750k? Tune in next week to find out !

[Omaric 246]

Haha, yeah it's tough to hold out.  I used to stand up in range of Garrosh and continue casting while running back to the ranged stack point.  Don't worry though, with full buffs you've easily got the potential to wipe the floor with those pesky windfurying bastards.  :D

[Zagam 1,983]

Zagam, do you have any logs you can post of H Thok progression? I'd like to compare your demo logs with my aff logs.

Yeah go to the logs I just recently linked.  Go to wipes and there should be plenty to pick from.  On some of the lower openers, namely two of them, notice that PBI played the dick card and didn't proc til after DS wore off.  I also got better as the night went on learning how to weave in my bonus Dark Soul and when to pop in and out of Meta to squeeze out more DPS. 

 

Paragons 25 Heroic: As Affliction

Dark Bargain & Unending Resolve (+ Twilight Ward) can easily solo soak aim, even through amber puddles/rapid fire if you weren't positioned properly in advance.

 

Demonic Circles can be placed while being mesmerized (Kunchongs), so either place them in the center before mesmerizes go out, or if you forget you can place it as you're walking towards your death. "Free" life grip.

 

Glyphed CoEx on bloods; Shadowfury for stun.

 

KJC a must with the incredible amount of movement. During purple mist keyboard turn in a circle close enough to the boss so you can lock in MGs and refresh instant dots (Reapply UA before this goes out because you will not be able to stop and reapply it as you are forced to run forward).

 

Unbound Will over Burning Rush (if you aren't Human) - Unbound Will can break whirling of Ka'roz (the first boss to become active after one dies). 20% hp is better than 50% from a single tick of whirling.

 

Make sure to Soul Swap your dots from the target about to die and reapply them to the next target/s to maintain your 10 stack of Agony. When they "die" they do not give shards, so when they drop below 5% copy your dots and then finish it. I admit I was terrible at this after the first couple bosses - usually dodging something as the boss is about to die (spamming MG) so I was focusing on mechanics rather than dps.

 

I ran with Dark Regeneration for a third defensive cooldown for Iyuukuk's fire lines and saved all my defensives for them (not green puddles). Every fire line that was on me I popped Fel Imps Cauterize and a CD (Unending Resolve, Dark Regen + Healthstone if healing is lacking, or lastly Dark Bargain + Twilight Ward and only after I dipped below half so they could heal me up before taking the remaining damage).

 

Make sure you CoE (Ka'roz expecially because he's away for long periods hurling amber or whirling) your rogues will be on the main target (Kunchong, the second boss for amber, etc) applying their poison, meanwhile your dots are ticking on an un-debuffed boss. Or they may have gotten transformed into a scorpion and can't apply their debuff. Keep an eye on it like any other fight.

This fight sounds delightful.  I personally can't wait for Siegecrafter as soon as we get Thok hopefully Tuesday/Wednesday next week.  Sad because I'll only have two hours of raiding the following week because of Blizzcon.  Progression halted.

[Zagam 1,983]

I'm just wondering what's the best use of the second DS for Destro and Affliction. Destro I've just been using it right after my opener to build embers for the second round of procs, but the real quandry is on affliction. When DS runs out after the opener affdots has agony showing in the mid 30s with a good bit of duration left. Is it worth casting DS again without procs to rebuff UA and Corr? My gut tells me just wait for the next proc, confirm or re-educate?

   Now that I think about it, same question for Demo. I'm the last caster in our 10 to get PBoI, so as long as it doesn't drop H-WF I shouldn't have to roll . As soon as that bad boy replaces Breath I'm coming home to Demo! I would assume you just hold the second use after starving through the opener until you have fury and a proc or mechanic to work with.

   OK while I'm here, last thing I swear! How do we best handle the opener on garrosh? Dumping both big CBs into him left me without embers for the adds or weapon, so last night I started giving him the first CB with both trink procs up, turn on F&B, Conflag, RoF and Incin until I had at least 2 embers then Immo (if I hit Immo first I seem to lose that first ember and have to turn F&B on again), do some single target to weapon, Havoc SBurns onto Garrosh as adds get low, then finish off weapon. Our strats working so I guess I'm just asking to optimize my own output.

Personally, I would bank on the bonus DS for Affliction by either guaranteeing I'd have it for execute or using it during another period of high damage potential.  I was reacting last night to using my bonus DS when both trinkets popped.  I also took the liberty of using my 2nd potion when 'the stars alligned.'  As all specs, I'd save it for either execute phase since all Warlocks jump up during execute, or when the opportunity presents itself. 

 

For Garrosh, I opened last night to the tune of 900k while soloing the weapon and getting in some AoE.  I did the same as you delivering two monster CBs in the first 10 seconds of the fight.  I kept Incinerate spamming until I was back to one charge, but instead of opening with FnB Immolate, I used FnB Conflag.  When you have only 1 Burning Ember, don't open with Immolate because it doesn't generate Emberbits on hit.  Conflag and Incinerate do.  ONLY use FnB Immolate if you have more than 2 Burning Embers.  This should get you back on track to not drop out of FnB.

 

Demo's opener is VERY different from before, but it follows the same pattern...get as much into your Doom as possible, squeeze out some DPS, then start building for your next burn phase.  Pre-casting Soul Fire is very advantageous to this strat especially if the 2pc procs.  I'm going to keep working on Demo this week doing an entire Flex as Demo, even when Destro seems more ideal just so I can really get back into the flow of it all.  I'll, as always, report back.

[Rakupenda 15]

I don't think we could have randomly said basically the same things any better sir.  Cheers.

 

Except your use of the Fire and Brimstone acronym.  Come to the dark side, where acronyms are evil and correct!

Too used to acronyms with o's in the middle *grumble grumble*

 

This fight sounds delightful.  I personally can't wait for Siegecrafter as soon as we get Thok hopefully Tuesday/Wednesday next week.  Sad because I'll only have two hours of raiding the following week because of Blizzcon.  Progression halted.

I liked Siegecrafter more than Paragons, personally. Paragons got more fun once your raid got used to dodging whirls and rapid fire. After Iyuukuk and Xaril die the fight is smooth sailing.

 

Too many different mechanics to know and react to that the majority of only last a minute or two, but maybe you like that sort of variety (think your first night on normal mode, and then add a mechanic). I prefer more scripted fights. They usually have more mechanics that last he entire fight, and once you master the first round it's a matter of rinse repeat (tenacity/stamina test). Paragons has three+ per boss (of which range dps only has to deal with 1-2 of them) and it ends up being more diverse mechanics to deal with overall.

[Zagam 1,983]

All I got to say is one thing: Thank the high heavens they didn't randomize the order they come in.

[Rakupenda 15]

All I got to say is one thing: Thank the high heavens they didn't randomize the order they come in.

^ This

 

The interesting thing I realized about the fight is the designer's creative use of the Paragon's powers after they die (at least how Blizzard appears to intended it). Example: You use Ka'roz's amber bomb to break the 50% encased in Amber Regen mechanic of Korven. You use Korven's amber to encase the mesmerized.

[Skyrge 9]

 

 

For Garrosh, I opened last night to the tune of 900k while soloing the weapon and getting in some AoE.  I did the same as you delivering two monster CBs in the first 10 seconds of the fight.  I kept Incinerate spamming until I was back to one charge, but instead of opening with FnB Immolate, I used FnB Conflag.  When you have only 1 Burning Ember, don't open with Immolate because it doesn't generate Emberbits on hit.  Conflag and Incinerate do.  ONLY use FnB Immolate if you have more than 2 Burning Embers.  This should get you back on track to not drop out of FnB.

 

 

 

Thanks Zagam, that's how I've been handling my F&B, always good to have confirmation when you're on the right track. I duddits! (Wow will anyone get that reference?) Only thing worse than running out of embers during an aoe nukefest is having to move midcast on a 30megaton Chaos Bolt.

[Omaric 246]

Thanks Zagam, that's how I've been handling my F&B, always good to have confirmation when you're on the right track. I duddits! (Wow will anyone get that reference?) Only thing worse than running out of embers during an aoe nukefest is having to move midcast on a 30megaton Chaos Bolt.

 

Dreamcatcher is a good read, but no capitalization??  Wtflips!!

 

I prefer getting Immolate out first because it starts buffing my RoF on all the mobs by 50% right away.  Let's be realistic too, it doesn't take long to get Embers rolling in that circumstance.  Within a GCD or two you have the Embers to get deep and dirty into your rotation.  You also aren't getting your Conflag buffed by all your procs.  Immolates are easier to refresh after procs, but you don't get your Conflag charges back.  To each their own though!

[Skyrge 9]

Dreamcatcher is a good read, but no capitalization??  Wtflips!!

 

I prefer getting Immolate out first because it starts buffing my RoF on all the mobs by 50% right away.  Let's be realistic too, it doesn't take long to get Embers rolling in that circumstance.  Within a GCD or two you have the Embers to get deep and dirty into your rotation.  You also aren't getting your Conflag buffed by all your procs.  Immolates are easier to refresh after procs, but you don't get your Conflag charges back.  To each their own though!

   All good points. I HAD it figured out, now I'm back to thinking! I kid, "to each their own" is right. I think you could go either way and not really notice the difference. By the by, I had a tank complain about me Shadowfurying the adds in a flex pug, he said I was syncing up their swing timers? My tanks have had no problems on normal, anyone heard of this?

[Omaric 246]

I've never heard of it as a complaint, and in my 3+ years of tanking never complained about it.  I guess it's a thing if you think about it.  If you're unlucky and have all the aggro you could get hit simultaneously by every mob.  Seems kind of nit picky though, especially seeing how you're straight up halting damage for a period of time, enough to let healers catch up and tanks recharge their CD's.

[Muoric 3]

By the by, I had a tank complain about me Shadowfurying the adds in a flex pug, he said I was syncing up their swing timers? My tanks have had no problems on normal, anyone heard of this?

 

I've heard of it and it can in theory be a problem. Just a case of how many mobs, how hard do they hit (slow + heavy is worse) and how much health does the tank have. Basically with a low health tank and heavy hitting mobs they can one shot the tank after their swings come at the exact same time. Seen that happen in toes (lfr) a few times on the adds before 3rd boss.

[Skyrge 9]

Interesting. I, however, will still be stunning them bitches. Maybe THAT'S why I have 860k health, gives me time to get the B-res off .

[Liquidsteel 279]

I've heard of it and it can in theory be a problem. Just a case of how many mobs, how hard do they hit (slow + heavy is worse) and how much health does the tank have. Basically with a low health tank and heavy hitting mobs they can one shot the tank after their swings come at the exact same time. Seen that happen in toes (lfr) a few times on the adds before 3rd boss.

I first encountered it on Tortos heroic. I'd stun the bats and it would cause them to rape the tanks shield and start healing. Started doing it just before the stomp / when they were low enough to die in the 3 seconds.

[Kazistrasz 216]

Yes, when a mob is stunned its swing timer is reset. Stunning a lot of adds will make them all swing at once on your tank, which can lead to some instagibbing if they're not prepared for it. That said, a good tank can stagger those swings out using positioning and movement with the mobs (i.e., be in range of some of them to get some swings but move before the others get to range and swing).

[Djargo 4]

Next boss for us is Malkorok, did u actually play Destro there Zagam? looking on the fight there seems to be so much to move from where, it would be easier as affli with KJC to move from, where as chaos bolts cast time is so anonying, I know demo could be an idea, but im so sad about that spec ever since the nerfs ;_;

[Lockybalboa 618]

Next boss for us is Malkorok, did u actually play Destro there Zagam? looking on the fight there seems to be so much to move from where, it would be easier as affli with KJC to move from, where as chaos bolts cast time is so anonying, I know demo could be an idea, but im so sad about that spec ever since the nerfs ;_;

 

 

Destro works fine. Just have to plan things out a little. The small add coming out so much helps out for embers. All three specs do well tbh, I was demo for the progression kill (pre-nerf) mostly for the Dark Apoc glyph so I could eat blood rage easier.

[Twona 1]

I went affliction for H Malkorok, seemed to do very well and can get shards back from the adds. They die extremely fast and getting a havoc + CB off was too hard since they would be dead before CB even landed.

[Simplexity 0]

Next boss for us is Malkorok, did u actually play Destro there Zagam? looking on the fight there seems to be so much to move from where, it would be easier as affli with KJC to move from, where as chaos bolts cast time is so anonying, I know demo could be an idea, but im so sad about that spec ever since the nerfs ;_;

 

I did pretty well on Malkorok this week as Destro with Soul Leech/Soul Link/GoSac. You'll have a ~900K HP pool which will make your Soul Leech shields almost 150K, letting you safely just turret and never worry about moving from orbs (only when you have to soak an Implosion). If you're doing 300K DPS your Soul Leech shield will completely fill in 5 seconds so it will always be up between orbs.

[Kazistrasz 216]

Starting heroics tonight.

 

Wow, I haven't said that in quite a long time. I should stop taking long breaks from this game.

 

For Immerseus, Swelling Corruption says it triggers on Single Target abilities. 

I'm assuming this means only the initial cast and the DoT itself doesn't trigger it when it ticks, yeah?

If I drop RoF on the boss (in addition to dropping one on the adds), will that trigger a stack if it's the only thing it hits?

Since I use GoSac, is it permissible (IYO) to sac the imp and go past 2 stacks (like, 4?) using Singe to quickly dispel myself? (Whichever video I watched said it could be dispelled, or at least I thought the video said that...).

[Rakupenda 15]

Starting heroics tonight.

 

Wow, I haven't said that in quite a long time. I should stop taking long breaks from this game.

 

For Immerseus, Swelling Corruption says it triggers on Single Target abilities. 

I'm assuming this means only the initial cast and the DoT itself doesn't trigger it when it ticks, yeah?

If I drop RoF on the boss (in addition to dropping one on the adds), will that trigger a stack if it's the only thing it hits?

Since I use GoSac, is it permissible (IYO) to sac the imp and go past 2 stacks (like, 4?) using Singe to quickly dispel myself? (Whichever video I watched said it could be dispelled, or at least I thought the video said that...).

You said you were 25 man, right? The stacks aren't really that big of an issue. You dot it up and do a couple abilities, then switch to adds. It's basically normal with some adds. Every stack taken from the boss and applied to a player spawns an add, 50? total.

 

The first eight bosses are undertuned for heroics, imo.

[Soulzar 42]

What I do is build myself up to 3-4, dispel with unbound will, drop some RoF cast CB's until i stack up again.. then swap and nuke down the adds.  I have not used, though imagine the imp dispel will also work which would basically allow you to cheese the entire mechanic.  That said, you will need to swap off to adds anyways.. so its not a huge thing to worry about.

 

Also, it was mentioned by Zags I think.. while generally you prepot then use your second pot at the end during execute, you will want to use your second pot on his reform after first transition, as the fight is front loaded and gets easier as you go on, so best used as soon as its off cooldown for that second burn.

 

GL on PBI

Edited October 29, 2013 by Soulzar

[Zagam 1,983]

Starting heroics tonight.

 

Wow, I haven't said that in quite a long time. I should stop taking long breaks from this game.

 

For Immerseus, Swelling Corruption says it triggers on Single Target abilities. 

I'm assuming this means only the initial cast and the DoT itself doesn't trigger it when it ticks, yeah?

If I drop RoF on the boss (in addition to dropping one on the adds), will that trigger a stack if it's the only thing it hits?

Since I use GoSac, is it permissible (IYO) to sac the imp and go past 2 stacks (like, 4?) using Singe to quickly dispel myself? (Whichever video I watched said it could be dispelled, or at least I thought the video said that...).

Rain of Fire and Fire and Brimstone spells will not apply a stack.  Immolate's initial hit will give a stack, but each tick thereafter will not. 

 

You can't sacrifice your Imp AND have Singe Magic.  If you want Singe, you need to go Supremacy and keep your Imp out.

Correction: Sacrificing an Imp gives Single Magic, but not the AoE version. 

[Rakupenda 15]

PBI yay! Finally!