zarontheinsane

Warr VS Pally

15 posts in this topic

Ok first of all, I'm not sure this is at the right place, but here goes.

I have played a Blood Dk and have loved it, but now I want another tank. I tried druid some but didn't really like how it felt like most of the time I was waiting for spells to come off of cooldown, even though it was only a few seconds at a time, I was having problems with holding aggro and people have told me that I would probably love either a paladin or warrior.

I want to know how each does in each of these situations and why you love/hate each class and also how good their survivability is such as defensive cds, self healing, and damage mitigation (I am quite diverse in what I do and need a toon that can handle all this) Tanking or dpsing through dungeons for leveling and for heroics, questing (not as big of a deal since most of the questing is easy, but how are each as far as group quests solo?), soloing or even 2 or 3 manning dungeons and raids (mostly classic and WoTLK), and how are each for bgs (especially carrying flags or defending bases), and how are each in arenas (for arenas I would most likely use ret/arms respectively), and also is fury (especially 2h fury) viable for soloing and pvp?

I know this is a lot to ask for, but they are some things I really want to know about each class and hope to hear a few different view points from expirienced players of each/both classes. Thanks in advance.

Edited by zarontheinsane

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I am not really into tanking specs, however Paladin tanks are extremely useful in raid environment, especially if you have any other paladins in the group as well. Thanks to Hand of Protection, you can solotank many encounters that would otherwise be unsoloable. Also, as a tankadin you have very strong self-heals and many "OH SHIT" buttons. Lay of hands.. :)

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Ok, thanks for that, hoping to see some more stuff about pallies and even a bit about warrs, I played around with a prot pally on ptr last night (wasn't quite sure what I was doing but checked Icy-veins guide to kinda learn it) just killing rares and fighting big groups as I sometimes do on my Dk when I'm bored and realized once I got the rotation down my life wouldn't even go below 90% then I took on about 5 groups of these guys that my Dk could only handle about 2 groups of at a time with cds, but used no cds on the pally and only went below 90% for just a sec, so I think pally may be the better choice because of its survivability and outlasting so much...and I hate fighting pallies in arenas lol. If I could only learn to manage my holy power better lol.

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Ok first of all, I'm not sure this is at the right place, but here goes.

I have played a Blood Dk and have loved it, but now I want another tank. I tried druid some but didn't really like how it felt like most of the time I was waiting for spells to come off of cooldown, even though it was only a few seconds at a time, I was having problems with holding aggro and people have told me that I would probably love either a paladin or warrior.

I want to know how each does in each of these situations and why you love/hate each class and also how good their survivability is such as defensive cds, self healing, and damage mitigation (I am quite diverse in what I do and need a toon that can handle all this) Tanking or dpsing through dungeons for leveling and for heroics, questing (not as big of a deal since most of the questing is easy, but how are each as far as group quests solo?), soloing or even 2 or 3 manning dungeons and raids (mostly classic and WoTLK), and how are each for bgs (especially carrying flags or defending bases), and how are each in arenas (for arenas I would most likely use ret/arms respectively), and also is fury (especially 2h fury) viable for soloing and pvp?

I know this is a lot to ask for, but they are some things I really want to know about each class and hope to hear a few different view points from expirienced players of each/both classes. Thanks in advance.

Regarding the Druid, if you were waiting for abilities to come off cooldown, you weren't following the rotation correctly. You should be GCD locked all the time using only 4 abilities single target - Mangle, Lacerate, Thrash, FF - and 3 abilities multi target - Mangle, Thrash, Swipe. This is probably why you had problems holding aggro as well. I routinely over-aggro other tanks even if they've been wailing on the boss for 10+ seconds already. Overall, Druids take less damage than any other tank if you use your active mitigation well. Our weakness is against frequent spike abilities, such as Tortos' Snapping Bite which still can kill me even on 10N if I'm not topped up.

Edited by Tarazet

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If you don't have a bunch of haste, paladins spend a lot of time waiting on abilities. I dislike paladin tanking due to having to wait for abilities and their AoE is less bursty than I'm used to. They have a substantial amount of raid utility through their heals, but they suffer for mobility and picking adds up quickly. They are very, very easy to tank with, though. By far the easiest tank class.

Warriors are, in my opinion of course, much more fun. They have a far more diverse toolkit than any other tank class. Rallying and Demo Banner give good raid CDs, while Vig and Intervene allow you to help out your raid members immensely. With Shattering Throw and Skull Banner, you can have a huge boost to your raid's DPS overall although you will put out less damage than any other tank. Rotation-wise, warriors are very active without being button spammy. Unlike paladins, it is extremely difficult to be a good warrior. You have no "OH SHIT" buttons. There is no LoH, no Purgatory, no bubbles. If you screw up, you're done. You can't compensate for poor usage of active mitigation through cheat death abilities or massive self heals. That said, with SBlk and SBar, warriors have unmatched abilities to simply not take damage AND smooth their damage intake. And mobility, oh the wonderful mobility. Many mechanics are trivialized simply by being able to charge back in or heroic leap out. Mocking banner makes picking up adds a breeze. Soloing dungeons, mobs, etc is extremely easy due to mobility and Second Wind. Victory Rush makes pulling packs of mobs quite easy.

TL;DR, if you want to faceroll and still feel OP, go pally. If you're looking for a challenge, go warrior.

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I have 4 tanks class toons (warrior, pally, druid and DK, now lvling monk). each class is unique, so it is hard to say which one is better.

i will try my best to give u a pro and con for warriors and pally. and some notes on dps side of the class

Warriors tank

Pros:

- flexible mobility (charge, leap, intervene)

- have high chances of spell proc, for shield slam and revenge (so u can literary spam like DK)

- very nice raid DPS boost (banner) and Raid defence CD (rally cry)

Cons:

- lack of self-heal (only victory rush n enrage regeneration)

- less magical damage reduction abilities

- alot of decision making for rage control and ability proc (whether to used shield block or shield barrier, revenge or shield slam on proc)

Paladin Tank

Pros:

- alots of healing options

(Sacred shield scaled with AP *hint vengence*, flash of light (minor emergency heals), LoH (oh sh*t) button, and BuBBLE!)

- have burst increase of DPS output n bit of healing *if u talent it* (Avenging wrath *+ Holy Avenger* = holy power spam = more uptime for Shield of the Righteous buff [the duration stacks] + glyph that increase SotR dmg)

- balance of active mitgation *in terms of physical and magical* (SotR gives alot of physical dmg reduction base on mastery, Sacred shield, word of glory *with the basion buff thing*, divine protection against magical *40%!*)

Cons:

- very little raid CD (only have devotion aura, but have nice utilities such as hands of protection and freedom (but don't help on wide scale raid)

- core abilities have CD, but thanks to one of the passive, haste reduce the CD n GCD of it (but that also means u need to sacrifice alot of stats for haste, in-order to have a smooth button smashing)

- only 1 or 2 mobility ability (1st tier talent, and hand of freedom)

Refering to your other question about questing or solo-able dungeon or flexiblity of gear in transition to dps,

DK is one of the best bec of their self-heal death strike + bubble from mastery (although doesn't absorb magic but Anti-magic shield can compensate for that. n also if u are quite geared in dps (a bit or normal n lfr gear) u can actually just switch to blood spec n tank LFR, i saw a DK done that n i was like WTF? but his tanking skill is quite good compare to another tank that was on LFR gear so i can't say much (i was playing my pally as heal at that time) + I tried it with my DK, it is quite challanging but fun

2nd would be Druid/monk *IMO* bec of their AoE ablility and their gear like DK can easily swap into Dps spec

3rd i would say pally bec they can self-heal and 3 *I'm about to die* button argend defender + LoH + bubble

4th is warrior bec they don't have much self-heal, so they have to rely on killing the 1st mob ASAP to get victory rush proc

DPS side of warrior/pally

Soloing:

fury/arms - they both do roughly around the same speed, one is proc base (or known as short burst type) and the other is consistance damage (probably at early lvl arms are better bec u just need few hits on mobs then they die, where fury proc might be wasted)

ret - they are ok but it is a bit annoying to keep up inquisition every 30 secs, and might go around same speed with warrior or a bit faster bec of sacred shield or eternal flame to keep them up while on move.

Raid wise:

Warrior - fury atm is strong, hardly see any arms or good arms to try to go agaisnt a fury (same gear wise), but gearing x2 2H good luck or more luck with x2 1H (bec u will try to win against war/pally tank and DW frost DK)

Raid advantage: crit Banner for raid

Ret - they have a very strong a burst compare to warrior but after that... well keep pray for every hit is a crit to minize your dps drop rate until 2 mins then u burst again.

Raid advantage: Devotion aura - reduce 20% magical damage for the whole raid member

PVP!!:

sadly i don't PvP, so i can't give u any what is nice for warrior or pally but... from what i hear/read in the internet.

Warrior (dps) - they hit like a truck

Ret - when he burst, CC/disable him/her or else u gonna see a train coming, if he bubbles, get rdy to burst him down

Tank - no clue, just my 2 cent, maybe prot pally bec of their utilities and heals

Overall:

Base on what i have writen and what I see base on how u feel like when playing DK, i would actually say Druid, but Paladin is also quite close since they can self-heal-ish and a few spells are similar like consencration (glyph) and death and decay

will edit/add some more when i free up my mind to think about it, now lunch break is about to finish

Edited by dxkid

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You've got many a good answers here already, but here's my 10 cents.

I don't actively play either class, so my experience is mainly from co-tanks and alts.

I'd say Paladins are definitely top notch at the moment. They're very consistently good in my experience and they are many.

Warriors are a bit more rare, and they're not as consistently good as Paladins, but they're easier to tell whether the player is good or poor.

Paladins can recover from those shit-hits-the-fan situations more easy so there's more leeway there, which makes it harder to tell the "exact" skill of the player.

Warriors on the other hand are easier to differentiate a good player from the bad based on their toolkit usage. As mentioned before, they have a wide array of different abilities for different situations, but can't recover from big mistakes on their own.

Also I'm a bit jealous of their active mitigation abilities as well as the amazing mobility.

In short. If your'e willing to put in the effort you can swing either way. The playstyles are very different so whichever tickles your fancy.

Edited by Ceraius

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Hi there,

I thought I'd wade in with my 2 cents. I have all five tanking classes at 90, and am to some degree an LFR hero on all of them - read into that what you will! Of the two options you've laid out, I would recommend the Warrior for enjoyment, and the Paladin for effectiveness.

Warriors are fun because they have a very active play-style that is more difficult to master. You must control and react to your opponent, and must use your vast array of movement options to be effective. Warrior AoE threat is very poor, as is their baseline survivability. This requires you to use your abilities well and react to circumstances to be effective, making for a fun but challenging experience.

Paladins are currently more effective, as their more predictable playstyle works very well. Their basic rotation puts out excellent AoE threat, and grants high survivability. Mastering the reactionary abilities is relatively simple and more forgiving of mistakes. Timing is to a greater degree dictated by your rotation. Paladins are easier to master and simpler to play which allows you to focus more on the encounter, but provides a less challenging and engaging experience.

DKs are also very effective, with Monks and Druids somewhere in between. These are, of course, my opinions and only relevant to patch 5.3.

Please let us all know what you choose!

Edited by Pandrel

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My main is a paladin (ret/prot since 2008) but I do have a 65 prot warrior and am having a lot of fun with it. I agree with all of the points already made about both classes but figured I'd throw in some more. Both ret and prot are extremely fun right now at high gear levels where you can get to obscene amounts of haste, and the magic is you can share most pieces between both specs (anything with no crit is viable prot gear). Prot paladins can bypass the mechanics of many fights to make them easier on your group by enabling you to solo tank encounters (Iron Qon, Durumu come to mind) or avoid some tank swap debuffs (Horridon). Ret is a very good spec for soloing old content because of the powerful heals, bubble, and insane burst. Most bosses through Lich King will be dead before guardian/wings are done. Cata stuff is a little tougher because of the big jump in HP and damage.

I don't have as much experience with warriors but as others have stated their mobility is absolutely amazing and they bring some pretty significant raid cooldowns. I actually see more videos of prot warriors soloing old content rather than arms/fury, it just seems to take a bit longer. I doubt any spec will be able to dethone blood DKs though considering they can solo CURRENT content. Both classes are a lot of fun though in different ways, checking both out on the PTR is definitely a good idea.

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- less magical damage reduction abilities

I would argue with this one. Warriors, through Shield Barrier, have excellent magic damage reduction. Shield Barrier is like having a Guard or an AMS that the warrior can put up every few seconds. Proper use of active mitigation allows warriors to be extremely effective against magic damage.

- alot of decision making for rage control and ability proc (whether to used shield block or shield barrier, revenge or shield slam on proc)

I would also argue with this one. When SS procs, use it. It's quite simple.

Edited by Estarriol

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Not to mention when spell reflect works, boy does it work.

As to lower baseline surivivability.....I don't see it, warriors have perhaps the best passive survivability in the game, Def stance is 25% damage reduction no other tank has better, and coupled with second wind, none of this having to worry about death striking at the right time, or keeping sacred shield up. Our stuffs there all the time. Warrior survivability just isn't a concern whilst soloing anything but mop raids

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Wow, loads of responses. Most seem tp prefer tankadins, but having both I have more fun with my warrior. The lack of an oh-shit button isn't a hindrance, it just forces you to use your normal mitigations in proper order. Once you get the hang of it you don't need oh-shit buttons. Plus, an observation from me, warrior tank DPS seems higher than pally tank. I may just be flat out wrong, but from my seat there is a difference and no better way to avoid damage than to kill the enemy.

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I play all 3 plate classes as tanks. If you like blood, you'll like prot paladin.

The reason why: haste.

Both specs are the only 2 tank classes that benefit from haste.

Both have more unified skills than the warrior. Like how weakened blows is rolled into icy touch, which is already part of your rotation. For paladins its hammer of the righteous. You're active mitigation is rolled into death strike ala blood shield. For paladins shield of the righteous provides threat and mitigation (and eventually healing).

Sure warriors have a larger toolkit, but the skills are more fragmented. Managing both shield block as separate from shield slam, will feel a bit janky. There's a bit steeper learning curve on learning to prioritize the larger amount of skills.

Tanking Tortos for example: As a paladin or dk i never worry about snapping bite since i have virtually 100% uptime on blood shield or shield of the righteous (thanks haste). Whereas on my warrior i need to be more aware to have a shield barrier ready, and pool the rage for a shield barrier.

Im not sure if paladin tanking is easier, but it definitely more streamlined.

Edited by denuan

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Wow, honestly did not expect so many responses, but thank you to everyone who has put in their opinions and advice (special thanks to Dxkid for the long post that tried to answer everything). I hate to say, but not quite sure what to use. Have been busy trying to get my dk and druid (trying to learn boomy OS after i hit 90 since i leveled as resto in dungeons) so haven't been able to play around with pally and warrs on ptr like i have wanted, kinda leaning more toward paladin since it seems to be more like the dk which i absolutely love. Got some stuff going on most of saturday and its friday night now, but i will be doing more research into each one and try them out on ptr on sunday and more into next week.

I like pally like i said because it is similar to dk in many ways,

-oh crap buttons: bubble + LoH + Fol vs rune tap + purgatory + conversion + vampiric blood + icebound fortitude + ds with 5 stacks of scent of blood

-consecration vs death and decay

-self heals and damage absorbs ds and blood shield vs SotR and WoG

-class only mounts Deathcharger vs (forget the names but the shiny pally horses)

But warr has some similarities

-can get to oponents quick death grip vs charge or heroic leap

-have a way to restore health quickly if it gets low necropolis rune tap vs second wind

-..........no offense warrs but i think that is really about it

I really think pally may be the better one (for me at least) so going to start doing some grinding to get the last of the heirlooms (only need trinks now, may just steal those off of my rogue which im leveling slowly with a friend and just send back and forth as needed).

Again big thanks to everyone for trying to help me out, i will definitely have to play around with warr on ptr more (was disappointed when i tried 2x 2h fury :c ) and may end up making one later on once i play pally and eventually have each at 90 (will at some point have 90s of the following blood/frost (which i may change to blood/unholy), Resto/boomy druid, Prot/ret pally, Prot/fury(?) warr, Aff/destro lock, bm(solo build)/bm (everything else build yeah i dont like SV or MM) hunter, sub/combat rogue, bear/kitty druid and may even have to talk myself into making a monk sometime). So yeah, im a pretty diverse person that plays pretty much everything and does everything. I own a guild (level 25 Posted Image ) and always am having to help people out with their classes or roles or needing to play a different role based on what people are needing for stuff.

Edited by zarontheinsane

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      See you in Antorus!
    • By fox436
      Dry Rub is a small 10+ guild on the Daggerspine (U.S./CST) server that is looking to expand our numbers for Antorus and beyond! We are all set to hit the next raid immediately and are looking for some extra players to join us in our Heroic progression. Currently we have H ToS on farm status with the odd hiccup on H KJ due to roster size and variations. We are not elitists, we do not spam meters or force requirements on players. Someone has to be on the bottom of the damage and there's nothing wrong with that. As long as you can perform the mechanics within a boss fight, are a decent learner and have the initiative to go the extra mile when needed, then you are welcome to join our guild! This recruitment is a long-term plan for beyond Antorus and throughout the Battle For Azeroth.

      We do not do applications- this is a video game and that is a stupid requirement. We will talk to you briefly, feel you out, see what it is you are looking for and if you are interested and think you will be a positive addition to our ranks then go ahead and send me a private message either on here or in-game.

      Currently our interests in recruits are:
      1x Replacement Tank (Demon Hunter, Monk, preferred)  
      1x Auxillary/primary healer (we have enough heals for our group but to expand we will need a third healer (Shaman/Druid preferred)  
      3x DPS- We have a decent roster of ranged and melee currently. We are in need of Warriors, Rogues (not Outlaw, you know why) SV Hunters (if are good at it, GL), Feral/Moonkin Druids, Windwalker Monks, Demonology Warlocks and Shadow Priests.
      This is our current interest for recruits currently. These classes and specs will be looked at with preference but we don't want you to think that we will not consider you just because your spec may overlap with our current roster. We are accepting all classes and specs (almost) and that will not change until our roster has increased to require re-balancing. We have a dedicated Guild Master and Officer crew who will be working with you to improve your game and improve your understanding of things. If you are a good listener and can follow directions well then you will work out great with us, regardless of your DPS (within reason, please be at least 700k+ on a dummy). The one exception to this we have is that No Protection Paladins are being considered currently.

      Our raid times are Friday and Saturday, 10pm-1am CST and our current schedule is a full clear of H ToS to KJ on Friday and if it spills over, finish it up on Saturday. Our clears up to H KJ take roughly an hour to an hour and a half max and KJ takes up the rest of the time as we work with new players and their understanding of handling certain mechanics. We not not going to turn away players who may not be the highest damage or happen to make the odd mistake (we all do, and we all have "those fights"). We want open minded players who have something to contribute besides their ability!

      Our loot system is Personal. We do not believe in any Loot Council, they do not fit the atmosphere and climate we bring to our raids and we want our players to be responsible for their own loot. The only thing we ask is if you receive something you know is not an upgrade and someone else could benefit from, throw it in the raid chat and allow a /roll for it. If you are unsure of it we will explain to you the benefits of the item and whether or not you will actually gain from it.

      The Addons we will be requiring to raid are DBM (obviously), Pawn, Weak Auras (just that you use it, no specific requirement outside what you know you need to be tracking), and a clean UI that allows you to raid optimally. If you do not use these addons currently or do not understand how to use them efficiently, we are more than happy to help you figure them out!

      Our current raid team (Guild) consists of:
       
      1x Blood Death Knight (MT)
      1x Blood Death Knight/ Guardian Druid (OT)

      1x Holy Paladin (MH)
      1x Discipline Priest (OH)

      1x Beast Mastery Hunter
      1x Havoc Demon Hunter
      1x Frost Mage
      1x Assassination Rogue
      1x Affliction Warlock
      If you have any questions or just want to hang out sometime shoot me a message on here or in-game - Fox#1587 or Moon#1672.