Earfish

marksmanship Lack of dps as MM

8 posts in this topic

Whilst really trying to follow rotation, despite the fact i havent used pots or flasks, i cant seem to get the dps i am supposed to, and i cant figure what i am doing wrong? Anyone got any idea? have i focused to little on the master build?

 

Logs to latest ursoc kill: 

Personal https://www.warcraftlogs.com/rankings/character/8946250/10/#boss=1841

Group: https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/gB6VfJLqCvXHRk43/#view=rankings&fight=2

Armory: http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/character/grim-batol/Zarioth/advanced

 

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So already by looking at your logs I can tell your not using your vulnerable window to get as many AS off as you can 

And also your doing your oponer wrong. Lets start off with your oponer it should look something like this.

Pre pot>CD's>barrage>WB>AS>SW>AS>MS>AS>AS.   Then proceed with the normal rotation which is to always try and AS once or twice (If you have enough focus) before you use MS. I can help you more out toomrow. And nvm my add me thing your on eu idk if US can add EU people to their friends list. Also use WB and Barrage on cd, but only use barrage if you dont have a vulnerable up or if your vulnerable is going to expire and you cant use another AS. Another thing is using WB on cd the best way to line it up with a SW proc and do it like this WB>AS>SW>AS>MS>AS>AS

Hope this helps you until I can actually talk to you in game cheer mate

AS=Aimed shot

WB=Windburst

MS=Marked shot

SW=Sidewinder's

Edited by Thariian
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I'm not a MM hunter, but from just taking a look at your armory profile I can see there's something dreadfully wrong with your Mastery rating. Mastery is your No.1 priority stat, yet it's only at 20.93%--very low for your ilevel, especially considering it's your primary stat.

Addendum: After doing some research and calculations, Mastery, for some crazy Blizzard reason, scaling is astronomically low for MM hunters vs. BM hunters. Not much you can do about that except change out that agility gem for mastery, and take gear upgrades that give you a mastery boost. And listen to the pros who play the spec. Good luck.

Edited by Soulo
Clarification
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6 hours ago, Thariian said:

So already by looking at your logs I can tell your not using your vulnerable window to get as many AS off as you can 

And also your doing your oponer wrong. Lets start off with your oponer it should look something like this.

Pre pot>CD's>barrage>WB>AS>SW>AS>MS>AS>AS.   Then proceed with the normal rotation which is to always try and AS once or twice (If you have enough focus) before you use MS. I can help you more out toomrow. And nvm my add me thing your on eu idk if US can add EU people to their friends list. Also use WB and Barrage on cd, but only use barrage if you dont have a vulnerable up or if your vulnerable is going to expire and you cant use another AS. Another thing is using WB on cd the best way to line it up with a SW proc and do it like this WB>AS>SW>AS>MS>AS>AS

Hope this helps you until I can actually talk to you in game cheer mate

AS=Aimed shot

WB=Windburst

MS=Marked shot

SW=Sidewinder's

Pre cast WB before Trueshot. You will save many seconds.

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Firstly, Mastery looks low because of blizzard's double scaling on MM mastery. The shows numbers are for the range increase, the actual dmg increase is about 4x as high(20% mastery gives around 80% dmg increase on focus spenders)

 

Checking the logs you missed several of your most important casts:

  • 7/10 possible windbursts
  • 8/10 possible barrages
  • 1 marked shot
  • ~15 aimed shots

 

Before casting a sidewinders, make sure to bank up some focus so you have enough for at least 3 AS casts during the vulnerability windows, 4 is possible but depends a little bit on your haste. So be at around 80-90 focus before casting Sidewinders, cast your aimed shot, then wait a bit for your focus to regen before casting Marked Shot. Do make sure to cast MS within the vulnerability window.

 

Your main things to work on:

  • Cast your priority abilities on cooldown(windburst/barrage)
  • Cast more aimed shots during vulnerability windows, achieveable by casting an aimed shot before your marked shot after Sidewinders. This will help with focus capping also. 
  • Try to focus cap less by rotating your vulnerability windows better, especially try to not cast sidewinders while Windburst window is active(unless you're getting two charges of sidewinders)

 

Checkmywow.com helps you to quickly analyze some key metrics such as possible skill usage, be sure to check it out after a fight to see where you can improve!

 

 

 

 

 

 

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With a murder of crows, substituted for barrage, I am doing pretty much the same 250k dps if not higher on that and other single target fights despite being 858iL which is 11 item levels lower.  I know the other poster said to get 3 aimed shots in per vulnerable debuff.  I find that I can only get 2 in before the debuff expires at my current haste rating of 15% (I can get 3 after Windburst as there is no GCD at the end of Windburst cast, however this causes focus issues for me anyway), so with it looking like you only have 10%, I don't think you would be able to get any more in either.  You can try and do the 3rd aimed shot and hope you have enough focus to apply the vulnerable with marked shot before the 3rd aimed hits despite it being expired from the sidewinders.  However, I found that this causes focus issues and further complicates the rotation, as well as just not being able to fire the Marked Shot because of lack of focus, which means that 3rd aimed shot is going to hit without the vulnerable debuff.  I have found the best approach as far as simplicity is this following main rotation:  

1. Sidewinders>Marked Shot>Aimed Shot>Aimed Shot

Then I have Windburst coming off of cooldown soon after, and do this:

2. Windburst>Aimed Shot>Aimed Shot

Then if I have the marking targets proc again, I repeat the initial rotation.  If I do not get a proc before sidewinders is halfway to two stacks, I do sidewinders at that time (halfway to 2 stacks) as I found that I can cast the sidewinders and get 2 aimed shots in by the time the Sidewinders will be available again.  So I just do #1 Minus the marked shot.  By this time hopefully a Marking targets proc will occur and you can do the first rotation again.

I have found that this allows me to maximize my focus and vulnerable debuff time.  If I do more than 2 aimed shots on any of those vulnerable debuffs, it just means that I will not be able to do two on the next one due to focus depletion. In this rotation I have the vulnerable debuff applied for a majority of the fight.  I realize that doing Marked shot at the end of the rotation like:

Sidewinders>Aimed Shot>Aimed Shot>Marked shot

is able to have the vulnerable debuff be reapplied by marked shot at the end of that vulnerable debuff, but again, I cant utilize it If i dont have focus anyway, and if I try to utilize it, it gets the rotation out of whack.  You can try and do that, however, it seems that it can cause your focus to be too depleted for the next vulnerable debuff if you keep trying to pump out aimed shots on the vulnerable that came off the marked shot at the end.  Doing Marked shot at the beginning is a good way of making sure you have focus available.  However, that being said, doing Marked shot at the end should pretty much always yield higher dps, and even if you feel like you are running out of focus and shouldn't cast aimed shots off of the Marked Shot vulnerable debuff, there is a chance you may get a Lock and Load proc that you could use without depleting focus.

I do not cast anything outside of the vulnerable debuff.  With this rotation the downtime while it may seem to be a lot, is not actually that much. The time between the marking targets proc rotation and the time that windburst is coming off of CD is minimal.  As is the time between either two of those and the time that the Sidewinders is halfway to 2 stacks.  All of these combined, equal almost no time without vulnerable active.  Also from what I've seen in SimulationCraft, Murder of crows is the better choice for single target fights.  Not only does it supposedly yield a slightly better dps, It also makes the rotation a lot less messy.  As I found that barrage with its cast time and hefty focus use just mess up other parts of the rotation a bit.  With minimal larger adds with more health, Murder of Crows can also be applied towards the tail end of their life and you will regain the use on their death if it hasnt already expired.  You can then apply it to the boss or to another add.  If there are a ton of small adds, barrage would likely be the better choice.

 

 

Edited by Acartheus

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Thanks alot for the answers guys! Loads of concrete tips that i will try to apply at my best.

When it comes to murder of crows VS barrage, i think that MOC might be more useful on bosses with only one "form" without emuniy or any adds spawning at all (for example ursoc) whilst Barrage has to be more useful on all the other cases (like Hellfire Assasult, Illgynoth and the spiderd). Of course it is possible to bring loads of tomes to be able to respec before every boss. I agree that MOC makes the rotation a lot cleaner, but if you have to choose one of them, i guess that MOC does less dmg then Barrage in the bigger view.

As Acartheus mentioned, the lack of haste makes it impossible to fit 2 AS before MS if Trueshot or BL is not active. Midfight, the focus will be to low after MS to cast AS, and it might be more efficiant to save it up for Windburst or Barrage on cooldown?

 On the opening, (i didn't use prepots in the logs) i reckon the best way would be Pre pot>WB (2 sec on DBM)>Trueshot>Barrage>SW>AS>AS>AS>MS>SW>AS>AS>MS, with the posibility to fit more AS depending on lock and load, and BL, instead of saving Windburst til after the first barrage. Is there a reson to save it Thariian? Also, casting a AS before the first SW seems like a waste when you have trueshot active, cause this will make you lose time for the garantueed MS procs, right?

When it comes to WB, is it better to cast this at any time when its available, even if you have 2 WB with procs? Is it better to wait with barrage and WB after the SW if you still can fit a MS after? The big problem here is the shortage of focus, often when WB or Barrage is rdy you have to wait 1-3 sec before you can cast them, is it then sometimes better to use one SW to cast those immediately? 

 

Again, thanks for the response, love it! <3

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