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nokcihc

Multi-Target DPS with Priority Targets

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I've always been curious how this should be handled. As a healer I don't keep up with DPS theorycrafting too much other than to know rotations so spot when someone isn't doing what they should be.

However, my guild is currently stuck on Heroic Horridon and when comparing our logs other guilds, it seems like we're fairly low on the DPS numbers for a guild in Heroics. Our top DPS on Horridon is usually doing at max 150k and on average our DPS do about 130k. Comparing this to other guilds(even guilds on my server that we are ahead of in progression) that seems fairly low.

Now my reasoning behind this is that my guild focus fires down the big adds on every door before worrying about cleaning up the small adds. Basically that means next to no AoE minus AoE that is included in single target rotations and small amounts of actual AoE as we're cleaning up the smaller adds.

A good example of this in my opinion is that our Survival Hunter does about 140k on the fight fairly consistently compared to another hunter on server in about the same gear level doing over 200k.

So anyway, my question here is on a fight like Horridon where there are priority targets that need to die ASAP, should AoE rotations still be used? Or should the adds be burned down one by one?

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im pretty sure aoe means "all objectives equal" so an aoe rotation for each class will do the most dps to as many targets as possible, but the dps to each single target will be slower. what you are talking about is a Cleave rotation, which sacrifices minimal single target dps to add splash damage to nearby monsters. most classes have an aoe, cleave, and single target rotation along with a "low max health" rotation for adds that will die fast.

any ranged class that has procs should be able to focus horridon and keep using him as a proc battery. they should also have a macro like this:

/stopcasting

/target Direhorn Spirit

/cast <whatever>

/targetlasttarget

the main thing is that the fight is non-stop, there is no downtime from the pull countdown to the end of the fight, there are always hostiles that need to die even if its just horridon himself.

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The DPS for progressing guilds is around 150-170k during door phase. You can't compare kill logs to wipe logs. My dps is often around 180-190k (my guild already cleared that fight) during door phase and then it skyrockets to 250-260k at the end.

You need to understand the fight mechanics. With each doors smashed the boss gets 50% increased damage debuff. So the stronger your group (meaning you clear mobs faster and can have some time dpsing boss between doors) the higher your dps will be during whole encounter. Also the dps will go up at the end where there is only Horridon left with 200% debuff.

The basic idea is to kill priority target but also do some aoe dmg without sacrificing single target dps too much. Hunters should use single target rotation while using Multi shot instead of Arcane shot. This way you lose like 10% damage on focused target but get 25-40% more damage due to aoe. The focused targets need to die fast but in the end all the adds should.

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There are many variable within the Horridon fight which can affect dps, let alone the dps themselves.

Raid composition is a major one at lower gear/skill levels (which is why many guild struggles with normal mode Horridon).

I haven't even attempted hrc Horridon so I can't give any advice but the advice Khalam gave above is pretty good. Especially the dps scaling on the fight.

The dmg horridon takes scales throughout, but if you have a competent group which just isn't getting the adds down with sufficient time to put some dps on Horridon before the next door, you wont notice any dps scaling until you get to the final phase.

Positioning can be a big factor in cleave/AoE dmg too, do you keep Horridon close enough to be cleaved with the adds? Do your tanks have the adds under control and gathered nicely for AoE or you have your melee chasing them all over the place? Is your raid clumped when possible for efficient AoE(and tanking) and Healing?

There is a lot more we could discuss but one thing I would be careful of is comparing players. "My hunter only does this but this hunter does that!" Not saying this was meant in any illmannered way but there are so many variables which need to be taken into consideration before any comparisons could be in any way viable.

If you want logs looking over, I know this forum has many players happy to take a look and critique shot percentages and uptimes, and most importantly, suggest viable and effective improvements.

Hope this is of some use. Xint.

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Just like with healing, AoE on stacked targets is very different from AoE on spread out targets, and most classes don't excel in the latter situation. We like to have everyone clump close to the right side of the door and slowly move towards the next one to avoid ground effects. If you have healers or hunters running around like chickens with their heads cut off, you're going to have adds everywhere and it hurts your DPS.

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Heroic Horridon is a blend of ST (assume cleave is actually ST) and AoE, but for the most part the more small adds that die before the Dinomancer drops the better. At all doors interupting the Dinomancer and knocking him down to 50% is a priority, ALONG with the following: Door 1 not a real concern as to AoE or ST dps. Door 2 has a different priority, while ST dps'ng the priests with someone who can interrupt you can still have some dps doing AoE as long as the first priest dies before 2 & 3 drop and they both die sometime shortly after the Dinomancer drops. Door 3, has door adds that can be ST dps'd by melee while ranged AoE the warlords and just as the Dinomancer drops they can all be gathered up and AoE'd or killed with some blend of AoE/ST. All this time getting the debuffs dropped/knocked off really helps your healers to not worry about people taking 120k damage ticks in addition to their regular damage. Not standing in stuff puts a smile on your healers too. By the time you get to the 4th door your group will have gotten the hang of it. Firecasters hurt. Again this goes to what was said before, you don't want to gather up all 3 bears and AoE them, you don't want all 3 shamans down at the same time. We tended to put the first bear on top of the first or second firecaster so they both went down together and the shaman should die about the time the Dinomancer drops, then switch to him, and then back to a single bear/shaman before the other. Watch for your group moving away from the door and ending up with 2 or 3 firecasters left standing together by the door. Your dps has to not concentrate on the meters and instead concentrate on the kill, at times they have to switch to ST and at others they can go back to AoE. All this time in between doors and cleaning up the adds you have to dps the boss, keep dots and diseases on him as much as possible. If the adds are close to the boss make sure your dps is spreading the love to make sure their dots and diseases are refreshed, one or two AoE strikes to do this will not make or break downing the adds but an extra few hundred thousand damage per dpser on the boss might. Unlike normal you can not ignore the boss until the end, and speaking of that when war-god drops be prepared for his third shout to sync up with a dire call and make sure everyone has cd's waiting for it. As mentioned above when you get to this last phase your raid dps will skyrocket 2-4 times what you had up to this point. When we had seen all the mechanics thru the 4th door we would wipe if anyone died before the forth door and did it again because for your first kill you are pretty much going to have to have all alive after the 4th door.

Edited by Amicitia

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im pretty sure aoe means "all objectives equal"

Since when did they change it from Area of effect?

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What he means is (i think), when you're truly AoEing, there isn't a priority amoung which are dying first, as they're all getting blasted down with your area of effect abilities/spells. When there is a priority to AoEing, it loses the AoE aspect and becomes more of a "hurt them all, but THIS ONE MUST DIE FIRST" which takes a few people out of AoE and makes them single target. Most melee due to the nature of their abilities.

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What he means is (i think), when you're truly AoEing, there isn't a priority amoung which are dying first, as they're all getting blasted down with your area of effect abilities/spells. When there is a priority to AoEing, it loses the AoE aspect and becomes more of a "hurt them all, but THIS ONE MUST DIE FIRST" which takes a few people out of AoE and makes them single target. Most melee due to the nature of their abilities.

Melee will always do more DPS on one target in particular over others, because of their autoattacks. Some ranged also operate in a similar way, since they operate best by doing their single target rotation while weaving in AoE spells where they can fit them in. (Fire Mage for example)

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