Stan

Legendary Bad Luck Clarification

Sign in to follow this  

28 posts in this topic

LxPdR27.jpg

Legendary Bad Luck

A  blue post has been submitted by Aerythlea with the subject - Legendary Bad Luck Prevention and interesting clarifications.

It's a common misconception in Legion that the amount of type /played affects your chance to get a Legendary item. Two types of players are compared:

  • Player A who spends most of his time idling in Dalaran and doing his World Quests for emissary chests.
  • Player B who is more active in Legendary-eligible content, meaning he's clearing the Emerald Nightmare weekly, doing World Quests, daily Random Heroic Dungeons or Mythic Keystone runs.

What this tells us is that Player B has a much higher chance to obtain a Legendary, because he's doing more Legendary-eligible content than Player A.

BiS (Best-in-Slot) Legendaries Misconception

The second subject handles the type of Legendaries you get. Some are obviously considered better than others. At the end of the day, when you finally receive your first Legendary, it's one of the worst for your spec. Many players thing it's not fair and a reason to hand your raid spot to somebody with better Legendaries.

Again, two types of players are compared.

  • Player A, who gets this awesome Legendary, granting him a raid spot.
  • Player B, who gets a mediocre Legendary, despite engaging more in Legendary-eligible content.

This is false in many ways. Legendary drops aren't the single determiner to secure a raid spot. Player B moreover, will have more experience, it's even likely he will squeeze out more DPS than Player A, because he's actively participating in more Legendary-relevant (even harder) content, such as Mythic+ runs. The second reason why Player B is getting a spot in raid would be helping the guild out, assuming he's running Mythic+ and dungeons with his guild mates.

The whole blue post can be read below.

Blizzard LogoAerythlea

Legendary Bad Luck

Hey all,

I'd just like to clear up a common misconception I've seen come up a lot in of recent discussions regarding Legendaries.

In short:

Your total time /played and average item level has no bearing on your chances of obtaining a Legendary.

To be a little more specific:

Player A and Player B could both have exactly 10 days of /played at level 110 and neither of them have a Legendary yet.

Player A has spent most of that time idling in Dalaran or their Order Hall, simply kicking it by the water cooler in guild chat or trade chat. Beyond doing their daily Emissary Cache and a Mythic Dungeon here or there, they don't really do that much in the way of Legendary-eligible content. Now, Player A could get very lucky with their next Emissary Cache and get a Legendary, but they'd be a statistical outlier in this scenario.

Player B, on the other hand, has spent the majority of their time doing Legendary-eligible content. They do their daily Emissary Cache, clear Emerald Nightmare each week, do a Random Legion Heroic Dungeon regularly and participate in a lot of Mythic/Mythic Keystone dungeon runs to help out their friends etc.

At this point in time Player B's chance of getting a Legendary will be much higher than that of Player A. As Player B has participated in far more Legendary-eligible content, their bad luck protection will be ramping up and increasing their chances of a getting a Legendary from their next run of Legendary-eligible content. Hence the saying "if you do the content, the Legendaries will come."

"Then player A gets BiS legendaries, while Player B gets the !@#$ tier legendaries that are totally useless. Fast forward some time, Player A and Player B both try to get the same spot in a raid. Of course, player A gets picked because he has better legendaries that actually increase his performance."

Well in this scenario as Player B has been helping their guild out more than Player A has, I think most communal focused guilds would prefer to give the spot to someone like Player B who is actually contributing to helping the guild, rather than the person who got lucky and is simply there for the ride.

Also as Player B has spent more time doing current content than Player A, they will arguably know how to adapt and adjust to situations (like where they can squeeze out more DPS for example) more readily than Player A will.

There are plenty of groups and guilds clearing Normal and Heroic Emerald Nightmare & Trial of Valor with most of their roster not even having a BiS Legendary. A Legendary should not going to be the sole determining factor in whether or not a coordinated group is going to beat an encounter. Sure, the Legendary might bring enhancements or utility that may make the process smoother, but they're not a through-and-through substitute for skill and execution.

Only, many of us are doing the content but still aren't getting any or just getting bad once that we'll never use.

The system is still the worst idea you ever had and it's completely ruining the experience the game is supposed to deliver. It's no longer fun! Playing the game is NOT fun. Do you not see this?

The legendary system at it's best provides a sense of relief if you manage to get two good ones but at it's worst it just makes you furstrated, angry and disappointed.

That is NOT a good system. Let us target the items that are quickly becoming mandatory (if they aren't already) like you said would be possible.

That small change would make the expantion way better in every way. As it stands now, Legion is by far the worst expantion to date simply becuase of this legendary system.

How do you not see this Blizzard? Why aren't you listening to feedback?

We are listening to, and reading, the feedback and we're regularly forwarding the feedback on. If/when I receive any thoughts or information I can share in regards to feedback received, then I will share it with you as I always have. Not having an answer does not mean you are not being listened too.

(Source)

I'm interested to hear your thoughts :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The big problem is of course that some legendaries are so sh*t, subjectively AND objectively, that they're barely worth using. Solve that somehow and the problem is much smaller.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The legendary system is in need of a fix.  However personally, It has no bearing on how I play and how I raid.  I may be the lucky one but I have a great guild and have not lost a raid spot because I did not have a legendary.  I have earned that spot by knowing my class and knowing the fights.  That is what makes a great raider.  Not a legendary.  It is sad that our community judges a player's worth by whether he was lucky or not.  If he is geared properly, and knows what he is doing then he should be accepted not shunned.  As to the jerks who rate Legion as the worst because of the system I have some strong words for you:  Nobody cares.  these are the same people who complain about too much content and a myrid of other little things.  You don't have to play trolls.  I love Legion, I think its great Blizzard has put so much in to it.  Some things are not perfect but whatever, they are trying.  Personally I am glad.  So just play the game already. 

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have been playing for a couple of years from WotLK to now. I have gotten serious because I have liked the content on some of the expac's and eh..not so much on others. I didn't even level all my toons on WoD. But I am really liking Legion. Yes, its change and a lot of people will always complain about change. But I feel the changes were well thought out - well, expect for the leveling of profs. But that's just me complaining because i can't sit and level them through mats i've collected on other toons. I'm finding it challenging and it is going at a pretty nice clip now I understand it.

I felt strongly enough about this to actually join Icy Veins so I could comment. Blizzard, you did a good job on this one, thank you!

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It was pretty long before I got my first legendary. A healer in our guild got 3, not 1, 3 legendaries before I saw my first. Some folks got 2. She got 3 BiS legendaries while I got what is considered one of the worst Balance druid pieces (the boots). While I'm happy for her, I can't help but feel some yuckiness. It's not jealousy or envy, it's more bitterness on my part - not towards her. I don't know what it is but it doesn't feel great. I feel like my character is broken somehow, that no matter how many emissary boxes I open or mythics I go into, I'm just not going to see another legendary for a long time and when I do, it'll probably be Sephuz's Secret or Cinidaria. 

My issue isn't just with the whole bad luck scenario, it's that having "bad" legendaries feels oxymoronic in nature. They're legendaries simply because of ilvl in that aspect, because the equip just isn't that great for many of them. Imho, no legendary should be "bad". I can think of a million ways to improve and change the equip abilities of these to be more in line with what the spec needs. I mean, as it is, no legendaries assist or boost solar wrath or lunar strike, nothing boosts or assists moonfire or sunfire, yet and the one coming up seems like it may be bad news. There are so many things they could have done to make every legendary piece of equipment considered good, even if it albeit alters playstyle a bit. 

As just an example, how about having one that causes Moonfire or Sunfire to have a chance to generate empowerments for Wrath or Strike? How about one that causes Wrath or Strike to have a chance to cast Moonfire AND Sunfire on the target? Perhaps one that causes Moonfire or Sunfire charges to build up so the next one has a 100% chance to crit? Another that extends both Moon and Sunfire ticks by casting Wrath or Strike while empowered? Etc. Etc. Etc. So many ways to make legendaries NOT suck.

Now, I don't hate my legendary, I feel like it's saved me plenty but let's face it. I'm a balance druid and our healers are awesome, I probably use the ability way more than I need to - I would much rather a legendary that allowed me to boost my dps. As it is, I'm being turned down from random premade mythic groups because 1. I'm balance spec and there's a perception in the community that balance doesn't do great dps and let's face it, the truth is that with all the movement required for some of these mythic+s, that may be true (I shudder at volcanic) and 2. I have no dps legendaries. To hell if I've cleared it before or have Mythic equipment being worn, these are the reasons given to me. 

It makes me want to either just forget the spec and go heals (which I don't enjoy fulltime) or go feral (which isn't fun for me).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

To be honest about this Topic. What they wrote is just a justification for how shitty this legendary system is.
Someone on the WoW Forums wrote: "win of the casuals!" This is true. The casuals have won.
They can tell me what they want but even Player A will receive its legendary and even Player A will under very lucky circumstances get it before player B gets it.

They did soooo many things right in Legion, the artifact weapon feels great, the world quests are fine, but what they fucked up are:
1. Tab targeting; minor problem
2. Dmg balancing (we think specc A is too strong, we nerf it and buff Specc B, so Specc B is more powerful than Specc A, What???)
3. Random Luck Legendary Dropping System

My point about the legendaries is:
1. why not make them crafted? Questline that gives you the base item and you can get stuff from nhc/HC/Mythic and mythic+ dungeons to upgrade it
2. Craft it the way you want. Put some cool stats on it and choose from 2 effects for each item to put on

I dont mind if someone gets a drop before me or deserves it more than I do. But I hate is the fact that someone can get it in LFr without putting some effort into anything, while others clear mythic raids and dungeons and leave the game with empty hands.... you should be rewarded for effort, not just pure luck. it stinks ....

and... why this 895 to 910, back to 895 back to 910??

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
16 hours ago, Lokodot said:

Four weeks in a row now I have received a helmet from my weekly mythic cache.  I have 2 legendary items, but they are sephuz and prydaz which are actually downgrades compared to gear i have in my bags.  

For M+, surely Sephuz actually performs pretty well? It depends on the class I guess, but yeah. It's worth noting that you have 2 legendaries already, so you had very good luck with getting legendaries, just not the right ones. They still do well in certain situations, they just aren't the crazy good ones.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
16 minutes ago, Lokodot said:

I think you forgot to read the rest of my post.  You're taking my words out of context and therefore you are part of toxic community within World of Warcraft.  You completely ignored the majority of my comments.  You're a bigot and completely ignorant.  In the future I would ask you to keep your opinion to yourself if you're going to take others words out of context just to try and be toxic towards others in the community.

I just didn't see much point in replying to the rest, since it was essentially a complaint about the way legendary allocation works. I was in no way toxic, a bigot or ignorant, but thanks.

Given that my job here is solely about helping people, which I do every day, I strongly doubt I am trying to be toxic to the community on purpose as you said.

Regardless, back to the point at hand; as always with these issues, there will be a vocal group. Nobody is going to come onto a forum to say, "I love Blizzard, I just got a pretty decent legendary for my main spec and I am pretty happy about it." They will tell a few friends, maybe link it in /2, whatever it might be. The reason it seems that the majority of people are unhappy is due to the fact that the most vocal people on the subject will ALWAYS be those that are unhappy. 

Let's continue on with your suggestion though. Let's allocate legendaries a better way. Now, all legendaries are awarded based on effort put in. How do we measure this?

  • Total time spent playing?
  • Time spent in instances?
  • Time spent farming herbs?
  • Time spent mining?
  • Time spent crafting gear?
  • Time spent doing World Quests?
  • Time spent wiping on a certain boss?
  • Time spent in Mythic raids?

As you can see, this list goes on and on and on. I could list every activity in the game and we could have someone do that for 24 hours straight. Every single person has participated in an activity in game for the same amount of time, they pay the same subscription fee to put in the same effort for 24 hours of time spent playing.

So who gets the legendary first?

Well, maybe we can differentiate between the activities based on the amount of effort they put into it.

  • Total distance travelled to complete the activity?
  • Total number of keys pressed?
  • Total number of mouse clicks?
  • Total number of kills achieved?
  • Total number of players killed?
  • Total number of gold earned?
  • Total number of resources earned?
  • Total amount of reputation earned?

So - No, I was not being toxic. I just didn't want to reply to a suggestion which has been explained multiple times by Blizzard as to why it does not work. You cannot simply do an equation of Effort = Reward because there are far too many different ways to play WoW, even now within PvE. If you were to remove every single other aspect of the game except PvE, you would still have World Quests, World Bosses, Raids (LFR - Normal - Heroic - Mythic), Dungeons (Normal, Heroic, Mythic, Mythic +1, Mythic +2 ... Mythic +15), Reputation Farming. If you wipe for 3 hours on a Mythic raid boss, how does that compare vs. 3 hours of clearing a Mythic+10 dungeon? Which is more difficult? Which requires more effort?

If you remove RNG, you end up dealing with a horrendous situation of completely devaluing certain areas of the game.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Lokodot said:

You're a bigot and completely ignorant.

Well, now there's a way to prove your point is valid and a concern worth addressing.

..........and then there's this.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
22 minutes ago, Lokodot said:

You are taking my words out of context again and inserting your own words.  

I'm not quite sure how I am taking them out of context when you have plainly said that allocation should prefer effort over RNG? You aren't satisfied with the in-between of bad luck protection, correct? In your own words, you said that something needs to change, right? You don't want to go further towards RNG, you don't like the current system, so naturally, the only way to go is towards effort, right?

If you needed to expand on this, why didn't you in your second message rather than deciding to call me names for no reason? Especially given that my post was attempting to shed a positive light on something you weren't happy with?

24 minutes ago, Lokodot said:

I never full said they should base the loot 100% off the effort a player puts in.  One of my main points is that these people that log in and sit idle in Dalaran, or maybe run one dungeon a week are the ones getting legendary items in my experience in the game at the moment.

I'm not going to bother with any of the insults, I'll just be ignoring them and warning you accordingly. Moving on to this, in my personal experience, the people that have no legendaries in my social circle are the people that log every few days, do a few world quests, do a dungeon or two and log off. My girlfriend logs in once per week at max, does LFR, does a Mythic dungeon or two and logs off. No legendary.

35 minutes ago, Lokodot said:

Now back to your first post, you answered many of your own questions in that post and contradicted yourself.  You were talking about me having 2 legendaries and said that is good, but then also said they are situational at best.  One is a world PVP legendary, and  the other is a minor absorb shield that more useful to LFR level players and not mythic raiders.  

Sephuz is certainly not a world PvP legendary. In M+, you can proc it in a multitude of ways. In raids, certain spells proc it even on immune bosses. There are plenty of applications in PvE, so you can't just write this off as a PvP legendary. The neck is much more situational, but if you need it for soloing elites in World Quests, you can use it. 

54 minutes ago, Lokodot said:

Two Legendary items is on the lower end for most of the community as well.  I know many players with 4-7 legendary pieces on one toon.  Even if you combined the 2 I have they still don't amount to some of the effects on the BiS legendary items for different classes in the game.

0 legendaries here over what is now 8 (I think) 110s. Most geared one isn't that high, around 865, lowest is 820 or so.

38 minutes ago, Lokodot said:

The loot system is still broken, has been, and likely always will be, but to make a players success in this expansion based on being lucky or unlucky is wrong.  You reap what you sow and there are people doing little to no work and receiving the best items in the game while people that are working hard to be successful are being oppressed by this loot system which blizzard insists is not broken.

Is it better to make a guild's progression rely on one individual? Look at Tarecgosa in Firelands. You had guilds investing every run into getting a single item for one player that was a huge DPS increase, then that person would just leave the guild. They might stop playing, get bored, whatever. How would that one person be selected? Can that person guarantee 100% attendance?

Is it better to make them an RNG drop from one boss like the Warglaives were? Should you have to sit there and divide loot to what you feel is the "best" player of that class? Should you have people sidelined on receiving legendaries just because they aren't best friends with their GM? What if you miss a raid, your legendary drops and now you won't be seeing it again for the next 6 months?

Do you see what I am trying to say here? It's not perfect, but this system of legendaries is still better than it ever was before. The people that receive this stuff for doing nothing are the exception, not the rule. There are probably millions of people that never log on and don't have a legendary, have 810 item level and do a few world quests here and there. There's probably someone out there that has full 800 gear and 1 895 piece that they got lucky with a huge TF roll on, or a legendary that they can't use properly.

Does it honestly matter? They are a huge exception. There is undoubtedly someone that got a legendary on the first WQ they ever completed. Do you think that happens to every person playing except you?

55 minutes ago, Lokodot said:

You're clearly a close minded person because you're failing to see the bigger picture here.  I don't understand how you're even qualified to be a moderator on this website with the ignorance you've put on display here.

I'm sure you'll respond with more stuff like this, telling me how bigoted I am and whatever else. Go for it. I've said my piece, I'll be putting a warning on your account for what was honestly a ridiculous first response. You could have elaborated on your point, avoided this crap and simply had a normal discussion. Instead you decided to do whatever it was that you did.

Thanks for commenting.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On ‎11‎/‎20‎/‎2016 at 11:21 AM, Lokodot said:

Here is a radical idea, how about a system that actually rewards effort more than it rewards the so called "Player A" just because they are supposedly "luckier."

How would you measure this? Is it time put in as Blainie said?  Would it be based on dungeons run, monsters killed, bosses downed?  How?  You sure like to complain much but you don't have an answer.  RNG is in every MMO out there.  

1 hour ago, Lokodot said:

Two Legendary items is on the lower end for most of the community as well.  I know many players with 4-7 legendary pieces on one toon.

Really?  Must be your server then.  I have several toons across lots of servers and having 2 legendaries is pretty good. 

 

1 hour ago, Lokodot said:

The loot system is still broken, has been, and likely always will be, but to make a players success in this expansion based on being lucky or unlucky is wrong.  You reap what you sow and there are people doing little to no work and receiving the best items in the game while people that are working hard to be successful are being oppressed by this loot system which blizzard insists is not broken.

Why is a player's success based on that?  I have one legendary on my main (Just got it today) and I have been in many raids, mythics up to 10+ and been invited to many groups.  You know why?  I am a good player.  I know fights.  I do good dps (Ret Pally)  and I am friendly.  I have my gear ready to go for anything.  I listen and provide help where needed.  I put effort in even if It doesn't get me a legendary.  I earned my raiding spot without one.  I know many players like that.  Players who are successful and who do well in their roles.  You seem to think that a player is worthless if they don't have one, that they can't compete and be viable for raids and high level mythics.  That everything they do is pointless without the BiS legendary.  You are wrong.  Knowing how to play, what your role is and having a good attitude is far more important than what gear you have.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Right, so I registered to make this comment, mostly because Lokodot is coming across as super entitled. I pay £9 a month to play WoW. I play whenever I have the time. I don't do half the shit you guys do. Guess what, I'd like a legendary just as oftenas you. Why? Because all our "effort" in this virtual world is giving £9 to Blizz. Nothing else you do affects their bottom line. Stop being entitled, RNG is RNG. It's Random. You're lucky or you're not, stop crying about it. Or go sue some random government because you haven't won the lottery in this perfectly fair world.

Man, I honestly feel sorry for you Lokodot when you enter the real world...

 

(edit) Darkjester, I agree with pretty much everything you said. I've got Immortal and Undying, I don't mess around when I'm in a group but sometimes you just don't have the time to play, Blizz get this and understand that your £9 is the same as everyone elses £9. If they didn't I can guarantee they wouldn't be in the position they are right now (speaking as a game dev myself)

Edited by Aerashi

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, Darkjester79 said:

Really?  Must be your server then.  I have several toons across lots of servers and having 2 legendaries is pretty good. 

I wish I knew what server he was on. I'd totally move there and get myself 5 legendaries, it'd be worth the transfer money tbh!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, Lokodot said:

So you're pointing out the fact that you've spent more time leveling than playing toons at 110, yet you're commenting on a legendary thread that talks about people who spend time doing content at 110 on 1 toon.

In what way does that make you qualified to even have such a biased opinion on this topic?

You are aware that it takes about 10 hours to level from 100-110, right? The game has been out for nearly two months. I could have levelled 30 characters and still had 30 days of playing 1 character.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Blainie said:

You are aware that it takes about 10 hours to level from 100-110, right? The game has been out for nearly two months. I could have levelled 30 characters and still had 30 days of playing 1 character.

Right! Clearly the person does not. I am dumbfounded this person lambasted you so hardcore.  hell they got two legendaries, and here i am inheroic EN, been playing my DH tank exclusively since legion launched,  and not only do i not have my legendary i also don't have my hidden artifact appearance because it wont drop x.x, i have received 4 hateful eyes since legion launched but still no vengeance appearance. Feels bad man. Wish i was as lucky as that joe bro.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't see whats so hard about it. 

Legendaries are special. RNG-Legendary-System is unfair.

 

Connect any kind of content to points for spending on a legendary of your choice. E.g. you need 250 tokenpoints for one legendary. Mythic gives 1. Every additional mythic level gives 8% more (e.g. mythic2 gives 1,08) ETC ETC.

Not too hard to make it fair.

 

MIMIMIMI BUT WHAT ABOUT OTHER LEGENDARYS EVERYONE WILL PICK ONLY THE BEST MIMIMIMI... yeah thats blizzards problem.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Darsch said:

no vengeance appearance

Only managed to get the Brewmaster Monk one so far, been doing the criteria whenever I can on other characters and still nothing. I don't even play Brew! :(

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Amateurpeeweeeeh said:

Not too hard to make it fair.

How would you alter points for different affixes on M+? Some are harder than others, surely, no? Do you award more points for those that contribute more to deter boosting? Is it fair to allow someone to buy 50 M+ runs with either real money or gold and get their legendary faster than others?

How do you balance it vs PvP? Is a Mythic Helya kill worth more than achieving Rank 1? What about time disparity? Surely killing Mythic Helya in the first week is worth more than killing her 8 weeks later?

What about speed of completion in M+? 

I just think there are a lot more pieces at work here than a simple weighting of points.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Everything about the Legendary system is awful, and it is a blight on what is otherwise an incredible expansion.  Having such powerful items be randomly given out, with players having no actual control over it, was a poor mistake from the outset. Variance sucks, especially in this regard.

This is only magnified by the fact that some of the legendaries are absurdly powerful, while others are literally worse than 860 ilvl items, and the worst legendaries are the ones that EVERYONE can get(neck and ring), which exacerbates the problem.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

Sign in to follow this  

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

  • Similar Content

    • By Starym

       
      The first part of this huge interview, featuring how to get better at M+, class balance and more.
      In this first of a two part interview, the champs go into class balance, how to get better at M+, their thoughts on the affixes, the dungeons and much more.
      The Mythic+ crew of Jdotb (Resto Druid), Shakib (Veng DH), Darkee (WW Monk), Mittbitt (Balance Druid) and Marvink (Aff Warlock) shattered a large number of records recently and decided to have a chat with us on the most successful thing to come out of Legion, the Mythic Keystone Dungeon system. In the first part of this mythic interview, the dungeoneers talk about how to get better at running M+, class setup and balance, affixes, the dungeons themselves and more. With a huge amount of experience under their belts there's no one better to discuss the issues surrounding WoW's latest endgame activity, so let's dive right in.

      Let's start simple: why do you do it?
      Darkee: I do it for the challenge and prestige.
      Jdotb: For the challenge and fun of it. Having a stable team makes m+ a lot more enjoyable.
      Marvink: It’s a source of end-game replayability that lets you push your limits outside of raids. Pushing actually feels like raiding in a smaller more close-knit environment, and you get to constantly try to beat even yourself with the scaling content.
      Shakib: The moment of glory at the end of a world first run.
       
      For people that are just starting out running higher and higher M+ runs, as well as for those that want to get into the WF race, what would be your advice to them?
      Jdotb: A few things: first, try to find a group that you can run with all the time so you can develop solid communication and start building some in-house strats. Being on the same page as your group is incredibly important. Five pretty good players being vocal, knowing what mobs will be pulled, etc. will beat five all stars that haven’t played together. Second, make a lot of equipment sets and get comfortable switching among them. One for avoidance cap, one for trash aoe, one for pure single target, etc. It helps a lot to tailor your equipment to each specific encounter. Third, watch vods and steal strats.  You can find other groups doing a lot of really innovative stuff if you pay attention.  Don’t try to reinvent the wheel every dungeon.

      Shakib: The best advice I can give to anyone trying  to become better at M+ is to play with the same people. It doesn’t have to be the same exact 5 people every single time since some people might not be able to ALWAYS play. I personally play regularly with 10-15 people. Sure, I try to stick with the same 5 as much as possible during a push week and that would be the best scenario for everyone, but it can be hard sometimes so at least having people you know or have played with before helps a lot. Having to explain the strats to a new person will slow down your progression and might even make it not enjoyable.
       
      What would be the top 3 tips you would give to other high M+ teams?
      Jdotb: Sometimes you will have to replace people if you want to push for world firsts. It sucks, but it’s necessary. Prioritize playing with people that are available all the time. It’s hard to overcome playing infrequently even if it’s with really good people. Always be open to new strats for your runs.  If someone asks, “Why do we…” or “Why don’t we…”, take the time to really consider if there isn’t a better way.
      Shakib: At the highest level of m+ you have to treat 90% of the mechanics as if they are going to kill or nearly kill you. Mechanics that you used to ignore now become deadly. This applies for bosses and trash. Communication is key. I do think that having people that call out CC throughout the dungeon is very important. At a very high lvl overlapping a 6 second silence with a stun can result in a wipe, especially in huge packs where 1 cast goes off and the dungeon is over.
       
      You mostly use the same setup for your runs, could you talk about the choices there and why your class/spec is the best for this type of play? 
      Darkee: Windwalker brings high damage and “good enough” survivability. It really shines in mass aoe pulls due to our exponential scaling with Spinning Crane Kick. This allows the other 2 dps to bring more single target focused builds. We also have exceptional burst damage for high priority short lived adds (one example being the adds that shield the third boss in Seat).
      Jdotb: Four of us (Shakib, Mitt, Marvin and Jdotb) have been running together for several months. Darkee is a recent addition. His spec (Windwalker) does the most dps of any class in m+ right now by a country mile. Windwalker defensives are ok but not great, but Windwalker dps is so good that it doesn’t matter. The common theme among the rest of us is that our classes are very good at living.
      Marvink: Our group composition just sort of fell into place. For me, affliction will always have its place in high dungeons. Their damage is very competitive but a large portion of their appeal is the insane personal self-sustain. Having one less person the healer has to worry about a lot of the time helps quite a bit. As there are many dungeons with demons this expansion, Banish is very helpful in some dungeons on Bolstering and Bursting week allowing you to pull a little larger than you would without it. And don’t forget the important Arcway buff through enslave demon.
      Shakib:  Vengeance demon hunter: While dh’s don’t bring much group utility (ex: BoP, Leech aura, Battle res…) we bring an insane utility toolkit (trash control) and the strongest overall damage during a dungeon for a tank spec. We also have very good self sustain, especially during Metamorphosis, which almost makes us invincible. The great self-sustain lets our resto druid have even more globals to dps.
      Restoration Druid: The reason that druid is one of the two top pick for a healer spec is mainly because of their survivability via bear form and Barkskin. On top of that they are able to heal pretty much any situation while dealing a pretty decent chunk of damage if they pick the talent Feral Affinity. Ironbark is a very nice external on a short cooldown. Typhoon during a sanguine week is a lifesaver. Brez is definitly a big plus.
      Affliction Warlock: This spec is currently great at everything. They have a multitude of talents to pick from which our lock swaps between depending on the dungeon. Their damage is top tier while also having insane survivability (several defensives, the self-healing from drain is powerful, lets you somewhat ignore some mechanics while healing through them). Really good utility also for many situations. Stun, gateway, the decurse from the infernal pet but most importantly they can enable huge pulls by equipping Sacrolash's Dark Strike which slows every enemy affected by Corruption by 60%. This allows us to do some big pulls where I kite and the dps take care of the pack without having to deal with mechanics (mostly used in dungeons like Neltharion’s lair, Blackrook and seat). Healthstones <3
      Balance druid: Once again, same as resto druids you are basically never worried of a balance druid dying during intense damage taken periods because of their bear form. Brez and Typhoon are also nice to have. While not having a low cooldown interrupt can be an annoyance on heavy casting fights like Medivh in Upper Kharazan, Solar Beam is extremely strong for huge caster pulls - 8 seconds of silence is HUGE.
      Windwalker monk: This is a recent pick up, while windwalkers have always been a really good dps pick for m+ they were lacking survivability to justify bringing them. With the start of the new tier windwalker monks have been destroying dps meters which made us pick Darkee as our 5th. They always have cooldowns up. Leg sweep is the best aoe stun in the game. We also really like playing with 1 melee in our comp.
       
      If you had to pick the single strongest and weakest class and spec for pushing high M+, what would they be?
      Darkee: I think class balance is more like a tier list rather than clear-cut winners and losers. However, if I had to choose the best/worst, Mistweaver would be the worst. There are many contenders for best but my vote goes toward affliction lock. Strong damage, very strong survivability and they bring utility in the form of healthstones/gates/summons/soulstone.
      Shakib:  Affliction warlock is definitely the strongest overall spec. Good at everything, great survival, great utility. I can’t think of a downside of bringing a warlock. I would usually bash on Shadow priests but I think enhance shaman is the weakest key pushing spec in the game, not only are they melee which makes them more vulnerable to dying in big packs but they also have probably the weakest defensive toolkit in the game. From what I’ve heard they have really good single target and 3-4 target cleave but after that pretty much any other class is better.
       
      Do you feel Blizzard have done a good job with class balance throughout Legion? And do you have high hopes for BfA in this regard?
      Darkee: This answer would just be salt coming from a windwalker main (Rank 1 Krosus parse getting beat by rank 830 warrior parse). However, I think balance will be much easier in BFA with the removal of tier sets.
      Marvink: M+ has basically always been ruled by how much AoE burst you can get, you can always pull more if you have the damage. There’s always been some sort of mix of classes and trinkets that just rule the scene and not much has been done to limit the effectiveness of them outside of raids, one gets changes and another one takes its place.
      Shakib: The class balance has been decent throughout the xpac, the main balance that I would like to see is defensive changes. The defensive toolkit a class has is usually the main reason they are brought into a high m+ dungeon. Blizzard has surprised me several times this expansion when it comes to dungeons. Never did I think there would be this many changes done to balance dungeons out, it’s not a perfect balance but at least we know that they care about dungeons a lot more than before. They even hotfixed some of the bugs or “exploits” that were happening pretty quickly recently. Especially having a dungeon tournament hosted by blizzard themselves so my hopes are very high for BfA and future expansions.
       
          
      Let’s start from the most obvious: rank the dungeons in order of difficulty on the highest M+ numbers.
      Mittbitt : (Most difficult) Seat of the Triumvirate - Some of the trash is always brutal regardless of affixes, and the the last two bosses can make or break your key.
      Maw of Souls - The trash is not too controllable and does significant damage to all players, and the second boss can get fairly chaotic. Also the timer is not generous at all.
      Neltharion’s Lair- Ularogg Cragshaper, and Dargrul eat up a significant amount of time overall for the key by getting an undesired transition or add. Also the trash in the dungeon is very strong, specifically the scorpions at the end.
      Darkheart Thicket- Dresaron and Shade of Xavius can be quite scary, more so Xavius requires a great deal of durability.
      Halls of Valor -Hyrja can be a big block in whether or not you can complete the key, and some of the trash can be quite difficult if not dealt with correctly.
      Black Rook Hold - The bosses can be challenging, however the trash gets hard to deal with quickly.
      Upper Karazhan - Each boss has their own element making them difficult, however Shade and Mana Devourer can get messy and require extra coordination to kill.
      Lower Karazhan - Overall I don’t feel that this dungeon is exceptionally difficult, however the Mounted Strike can chunk anyone in melee range of Attumen the Huntsman, and unless you have a comp to cheese Garrotes, Moroes can get sketchy quickly.
      Eye of Azshara - The only two scary bosses in here are Lady Hatecoil, and Wrath of Azshara. Although not too difficult the winds pushing players around is obnoxious and can get very dangerous very quickly.
      Vault of the Wardens - The trash and the mini bosses are quite dangerous, other than that avoiding extra phases on Glazer are one of the essential parts to getting more time available in the key.
      The Arcway - Getting left side at the beginning of they key makes the timer much more relaxed and makes it the easiest key, unfortunately we did not get left side on our timed 27. What makes this key particularly difficult is Ivanyr, Nal’tira, and the large amount of time that Advisor Vandros takes up.
      (Least difficult) Court of Stars - Overall the trash is not too difficult, and mainly only the second boss is frightening as the damage caps early on the last boss, and the first boss is straightforward.
      Shakib: Lower-arcway-vault-court-upper-eye of azshara-blackrook hold-cathedral-darkheart-neltharion-halls of valor-maw-seat.
       
      If you could change a few dungeons which would they be and how would you change them?
      Darkee: Something needs to be done about that entire archer area in Blackrook. Getting through it with me only dying twice is considered a success. I would make it so you can’t out-range shoot but drastically lower the damage it deals.
      Marvink: I’d remove the very far back Warden spawn in Seat, and add a profession to the Starlight Rose Brew in Court of Stars. I’d also make Hyrja only able to cast the ability she’s currently linked to, not if she just has stacks.
      Mittbitt : I would reduce the amount of role play in some dungeons, such as the Court of Stars boat ride and talking, Neltharion’s Lair waterfalls and maybe even the shuffling of the rocks on Ularogg Cragshaper.
      Shakib: Court of stars: The rng on the buffs is interesting and cute at low lvl keys but becomes frustrating when you need a perfect buff combination (on top of having people change professions just to maybe have it up during your 1 run) to finish a key in time. I think in m+ it should either be a set combination of buffs or just disable all of them just like we saw in the MDI.
      Seat: similar to CoS, the warden locations should be set spawns.
      Arcway: Having a 50/50 on the door that’s open at the start is another point that can greatly impact the dungeon time (maybe less if warlocks wouldn’t be able to control the OP chaosbringer pet on the left side of the dungeon). Maybe a decent fix would be a toggle left/right as you start the keystone depending on the side you think your comp can clear faster on.
       
      Which is your favorite and least favorite dungeon to run?
      Darkee: My favorite is Upper with Court being a close second. Least favorite is easily Blackrook.
      Marvink: My favorite dungeon by far is Court of Stars. I despise Halls of Valor (I’m look at you Hyrja).
      Mittbitt : My favorite dungeon to run is currently Vault of the Wardens. I enjoy the layout of the dungeon and how it allows me to optimize my cooldowns. My least favorite dungeon to run is Upper Karazhan, I do not enjoy the bosses, nor the tuning for the dot on Mana Devourer.
      Shakib: Favorite dungeon is hands down Lower Kharazan. There’s nothing I love more than pulling big and lower is a goldmine of huge trash packs. Turns out dh’s are also quite strong at doing exactly what I love :). (Seat is really close behind.) My least favorite dungeon has to be Neltharion’s lair. Even though it is a pretty straight forward dungeon there’s something about the environment and the mob type that just gets to me.
       
      What are the easiest affixes and do they vary from dungeon to dungeon?
      Shakib: I would say that the Sanguine, Volcanic, Fortified set of affixes is the easiest for 12 out of the 13 available dungeons. The one that stands out as not a “harder” dungeon but just much slower. A LOT of time gets wasted during the scavenger hallway. I would say that the easiest set of affixes for Blackrook Hold is Teeming, Quaking, Fortified, the pulls are usually really big pulls so adding a couple mobs here and there doesn’t slow you down as much as people may think in there, at least not as much as Sanguine.
       
      Are there some affix combos you just will not get out of bed in the morning for?
      Darkee: Teeming Explosive is a bad joke. Explosive in general is just not fun. It doesn’t help that monks deal 50% less damage to them during our main cd, and our main cd is up at the start of every big pull. I just don’t play unless I have to during Explosive.
      Jdotb: Obviously some of the affix combinations are particularly disgusting, but we’ll run keys most every day regardless. We’re fiends. At the very least, affixes like Bolstering and Tyrannical make you appreciate the Volcanics and Fortifieds.
      Marvink: Bolstering, Explosive, Tyrannical. Not my cup of tea for that amount of trash management, and marathon boss fights are never fun.
      Mittbitt : I will always get out of bed for some mythic plus regardless of the affix combos, however the affix combo that least excites me is Bolstering, Grievous, Tyrannical.
       
      What do you think of the current affixes as they are now? Which should be changed or even removed completely and are there any you’d like to see added in BfA?
      Jdotb: Tyrannical is the big offender at the moment. You don’t have to dive very deep into the analytics to see that all the highest keys are on Fortified weeks. The 40% hp on Tyrannical is the problem - it just makes the bosses take waaaaay too long. The damage bump is fine where it’s at, but the hp buff needs to be cut to at most 25%, maybe even 20%. Bosses are already the hardest parts of high keys because of scaling; making them do more damage AND live almost half again as long is insurmountable.
      Bolstering is probably a bit too punishing. If you screw up, you can’t really undo it without wiping. If the Bolstering buff had a duration (maybe 10-15s) or a cap (maybe 10 stacks) it would be a lot more palatable.
      Explosive starts to feel a little overwhelming on high keys because the orb health scales with the key level so instead of just requiring a global cooldown, the orbs now need people to focus them for several casts.
      Volcanic is a joke now that probably needs to be reworked. It isn’t threatening and half the time it doesn’t even require you to move.
      Quaking for the most part is ok but can be devastating on boss fights where you absolutely need your Prydaz, Xavaric's Magnum Opus shield up to live through certain mechanics. There isn’t a way to play around that currently. If Quaking always did damage to your hp pool directly instead of eating shields, I think it would improve the affix a lot.
      Mittbitt : I feel that Tyrannical needs some tuning, possibly by dropping the hp that bosses receive and beefing up trash more. However, Tyrannical boss hp and abilities get out of control much sooner, and honestly are the least enjoyable mythic plus weeks where we typically farm 20-24 keys.
       
      What’s your favorite, least favorite and funniest “trick” you’ve used in the past to get that tier done in time?
      Jdotb: My favorite trick would have to be keeping the cats in the front of DHT from jumping. That made the instance so much less frustrating.
      Least favorite trick is delaying on the second platform of Viz’aduum. He always targets me with the disintegrate so I have to spend a minute or two running back and forth between two spots.
      Funniest trick was probably taunting Ularogg to keep him from going underground (has since been fixed) - if you were successful, he would instantly punch you really hard and probably kill you on higher keys, so the taunt “winner” would usually be the dead guy.
       
      That's it for the first part of this interview, we had to cut it up into two for, well, obvious reasons! Huge thanks to the Mythic + crew for the insightful answers and you check back in a few days when we finish this up with their thoughts on addons, raiding and its impact on M+,  the Mythic Dungeon Invitational, their suggestions for the future of M+ and much more!
      Part 2.
    • By joat
      Who We Are
      Tequila Sundown is a growing raid team formed within the <Karma Horde> guild on US-Stormreaver. Lead by a husband/wife team with high-level raiding experience dating back to WotLK, we're a "positively determined" progression team that maintains a light-hearted atmosphere while tackling mythic difficulty content. We're mature adults with jobs and family seeking like-minded players who have a passion for the game but want to avoid the needless angst or drama that often gets associated with progression raiding. We log on to have fun - so come have some fun with us!

      A Team Within a Community
      Our raid team is one of four within the larger guild of <Karma Horde>, which was formed back during WotLK. As such, the guild and Discord are very active and social. There are always people around online and in-game. The community atmosphere is welcoming and friendly to players of all levels. The guild enforces a Code of Conduct that has zero tolerance for hate/offensive speech.

      We care more about the people we play with than their item levels or progression rankings. We want players who are going to log in on non-raid nights and be down for all the other things we're into: pushing mythic+, doing world quests, PVP shenanigans, achievement hunting, hyper-competitive fishing.. there's so much to do and so many ways to enjoy the game. This is our favorite hobby and we'd like to play with you if it is yours, too.

      Progression Goals
      We are 3/11 Mythic, Heroic AOTC Antorus progression.
      We strive for a fun environment that takes the challenges of mythic seriously and giving the content the respect it deserves. Our aim is, as all mythic teams, full clear of content but with always keeping the friendly spirit of camaraderie alive. Performance matters, but so does staying positive and finding the fun in the difficulty of a raid.
      We do not require mythic raid experience to join our team but we do expect mythic-level dedication and accountability from all of our raiders.

      Raid Days/Times
      Our mandatory raids are:
      Tuesdays 8:45pm PT - 11:45pm PT
      Thursdays 8:45pm PT - 11:45pm PT
      Optional:
      Sundays 8:45pm PT - 11:45pm PT
      Sundays are for raiding the previous raid difficulty.

      Recruitment Needs
      DPS: Will consider all specs, but would love to add a dedicated Shadow Priest & Elemental Shaman.

      The Nitty Gritty
      If you're intrigued, please check out our wiki on the <Karma Horde> subreddit. This will give you a deeper dive into the raid team.
      https://www.reddit.com/r/FTH/wiki/tequilasundown

      Contact Us
      You can reach us on bnet: joat#1832 & lambkill#1856
      or Discord: joat#1832 & saever#4432
    • By Stan

      The latest Alpha Build added Blight - a new Mythic Keystone affix. Damage and healing done is increased when injured, and reduced when healthy.
      Blight is a new interesting Keystone affix added in Battle for Azeroth Alpha Build 26032. Damage and healing done is increased when injured, so it will be up to the healers to find the sweet spot between having party members deal more damage and dead, because healing a player to full health will not be efficient if your party wants to utilize the damage increase.
      Affix Description Blight Damage and healing done increased when injured, and reduced when healthy.
      Relentless is a second affix that might be added in Battle for Azeroth. It has been around for a while, but hasn't been implemented yet. When the affix is active, trash mobs are temporarily immune to Loss of Control effect, meaning they can't be feared, mind controlled, stunned, rooted etc. for a short period of time.
      Affix Description Relentless Non-boss enemies are granted temporary immunity to Loss of Control effects.
      We'll keep you updated about new affixes as they become available.
    • By Stan

      Battle for Azeroth goes back to standard weapon drops. Check out new faction-themed weapons from Warfronts!
      Warfronts in Battle for Azeroth drop faction-themed items and our first preview covers weapons!
      We datamined the following weapons related to Warfronts so far (Alpha Build 26032):
      Alliance
      Bows

      Daggers

      Guns

      Maces (1H)

      Maces (2H)

      Off-Hands

      Polearms

      Shields

      Staves

      Swords (1H)

      Swords (2H)

      Wands

      Horde
      Axes (1H)

      Axes (2H)

      Bows

      Daggers

      Guns

      Maces (1H)

      Maces (2H)

      Off-Hands

      Polearms

      Shields

      Staves

      Swords (1H)

      Wands

      Warglaives

    • By Stan

      The WoW MVP program will be moved to an application-based recruitment system soon. Existing MVPs should reapply for the process. Open recruitment begins early next week, after the President's Day holiday in NA.
      Blizzard (Source)
      <This is going to be a bit of a meta discussion, and not something focused on World of Warcraft, as a whole. Those of you who are active on the forums and among the other World of Warcraft communities will probably have more thoughts on this than those who visit the forums on rare occasion.>

      Hey guys!

      Over the past year we've had it on our plate to breathe a bit of life in the MVP program for World of Warcraft (you may have seen me mention it here and there, and I know the MVPs have been eagerly waiting for movement on this). After nearly a year of discussions, we're finally ready to start moving forward with a refresh of the MVP program for World of Warcraft!

      Most of our active posters here know that when the MVP program was founded, it's goal was to recognize active forums poster who contributed to our community through things like high-quality class guides or assisting and guiding new players with helpful information. While being active and posting in a constructive manner will still be something we take into account, we realize that we now live in a world with Icy Veins, Wowhead, Reddit, and numerous other communities that didn't necessarily exist at the onset of this project. This leads our MVP group to not being able to actively fulfill it's original purpose on our singular forums platform.

      All of this led us to think we needed to be realigning the purpose of the program slightly, as we want to more actively empower the group to engage in discussions with us on various community issues, happening on the forums and in our greater community. This would also include working to provide insight into community and gameplay feedback they may see around the community, with direct conversations between the WoW community team and the WoW MVP group as a whole on a regular basis, much as we do in our conversations with folks on Reddit, Discord, etc., something that hasn't been utilized to its best.

      To facilitate this, we will be moving the WoW MVP program to an application-based recruitment system, which will address a few concerns we have currently with the recruitment process, as well as letting us asked targeted questions to candidates during certain recruitment periods, and hopefully widening the audience. We expect to open recruitment early next week, after the President’s Day holiday, so be on the lookout for a thread if you're interested!

      Of note, these changes DO NOT affect any region or franchise outside of World of Warcraft in North America, and these changes also do not apply to our awesome Customer and Technical Support MVPs who do great things.

      We look forward to getting to work on the program and hearing your feedback!
      I hope this doesn't mean Crepe is losing his MVP status. I notice community MVPs are not listed as being spared these changes.
      We're asking the MVPs to reapply for the process, but we will be keeping everyone who is able to meet the newer standards going forward! 

      I wouldn't expect any of the familiar faces you know to go away unless it's their own choice.