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Legendary Bad Luck Clarification

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Legendary Bad Luck

A  blue post has been submitted by Aerythlea with the subject - Legendary Bad Luck Prevention and interesting clarifications.

It's a common misconception in Legion that the amount of type /played affects your chance to get a Legendary item. Two types of players are compared:

  • Player A who spends most of his time idling in Dalaran and doing his World Quests for emissary chests.
  • Player B who is more active in Legendary-eligible content, meaning he's clearing the Emerald Nightmare weekly, doing World Quests, daily Random Heroic Dungeons or Mythic Keystone runs.

What this tells us is that Player B has a much higher chance to obtain a Legendary, because he's doing more Legendary-eligible content than Player A.

BiS (Best-in-Slot) Legendaries Misconception

The second subject handles the type of Legendaries you get. Some are obviously considered better than others. At the end of the day, when you finally receive your first Legendary, it's one of the worst for your spec. Many players thing it's not fair and a reason to hand your raid spot to somebody with better Legendaries.

Again, two types of players are compared.

  • Player A, who gets this awesome Legendary, granting him a raid spot.
  • Player B, who gets a mediocre Legendary, despite engaging more in Legendary-eligible content.

This is false in many ways. Legendary drops aren't the single determiner to secure a raid spot. Player B moreover, will have more experience, it's even likely he will squeeze out more DPS than Player A, because he's actively participating in more Legendary-relevant (even harder) content, such as Mythic+ runs. The second reason why Player B is getting a spot in raid would be helping the guild out, assuming he's running Mythic+ and dungeons with his guild mates.

The whole blue post can be read below.

Blizzard LogoAerythlea

Legendary Bad Luck

Hey all,

I'd just like to clear up a common misconception I've seen come up a lot in of recent discussions regarding Legendaries.

In short:

Your total time /played and average item level has no bearing on your chances of obtaining a Legendary.

To be a little more specific:

Player A and Player B could both have exactly 10 days of /played at level 110 and neither of them have a Legendary yet.

Player A has spent most of that time idling in Dalaran or their Order Hall, simply kicking it by the water cooler in guild chat or trade chat. Beyond doing their daily Emissary Cache and a Mythic Dungeon here or there, they don't really do that much in the way of Legendary-eligible content. Now, Player A could get very lucky with their next Emissary Cache and get a Legendary, but they'd be a statistical outlier in this scenario.

Player B, on the other hand, has spent the majority of their time doing Legendary-eligible content. They do their daily Emissary Cache, clear Emerald Nightmare each week, do a Random Legion Heroic Dungeon regularly and participate in a lot of Mythic/Mythic Keystone dungeon runs to help out their friends etc.

At this point in time Player B's chance of getting a Legendary will be much higher than that of Player A. As Player B has participated in far more Legendary-eligible content, their bad luck protection will be ramping up and increasing their chances of a getting a Legendary from their next run of Legendary-eligible content. Hence the saying "if you do the content, the Legendaries will come."

"Then player A gets BiS legendaries, while Player B gets the !@#$ tier legendaries that are totally useless. Fast forward some time, Player A and Player B both try to get the same spot in a raid. Of course, player A gets picked because he has better legendaries that actually increase his performance."

Well in this scenario as Player B has been helping their guild out more than Player A has, I think most communal focused guilds would prefer to give the spot to someone like Player B who is actually contributing to helping the guild, rather than the person who got lucky and is simply there for the ride.

Also as Player B has spent more time doing current content than Player A, they will arguably know how to adapt and adjust to situations (like where they can squeeze out more DPS for example) more readily than Player A will.

There are plenty of groups and guilds clearing Normal and Heroic Emerald Nightmare & Trial of Valor with most of their roster not even having a BiS Legendary. A Legendary should not going to be the sole determining factor in whether or not a coordinated group is going to beat an encounter. Sure, the Legendary might bring enhancements or utility that may make the process smoother, but they're not a through-and-through substitute for skill and execution.

Only, many of us are doing the content but still aren't getting any or just getting bad once that we'll never use.

The system is still the worst idea you ever had and it's completely ruining the experience the game is supposed to deliver. It's no longer fun! Playing the game is NOT fun. Do you not see this?

The legendary system at it's best provides a sense of relief if you manage to get two good ones but at it's worst it just makes you furstrated, angry and disappointed.

That is NOT a good system. Let us target the items that are quickly becoming mandatory (if they aren't already) like you said would be possible.

That small change would make the expantion way better in every way. As it stands now, Legion is by far the worst expantion to date simply becuase of this legendary system.

How do you not see this Blizzard? Why aren't you listening to feedback?

We are listening to, and reading, the feedback and we're regularly forwarding the feedback on. If/when I receive any thoughts or information I can share in regards to feedback received, then I will share it with you as I always have. Not having an answer does not mean you are not being listened too.

(Source)

I'm interested to hear your thoughts :)

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The legendary system is in need of a fix.  However personally, It has no bearing on how I play and how I raid.  I may be the lucky one but I have a great guild and have not lost a raid spot because I did not have a legendary.  I have earned that spot by knowing my class and knowing the fights.  That is what makes a great raider.  Not a legendary.  It is sad that our community judges a player's worth by whether he was lucky or not.  If he is geared properly, and knows what he is doing then he should be accepted not shunned.  As to the jerks who rate Legion as the worst because of the system I have some strong words for you:  Nobody cares.  these are the same people who complain about too much content and a myrid of other little things.  You don't have to play trolls.  I love Legion, I think its great Blizzard has put so much in to it.  Some things are not perfect but whatever, they are trying.  Personally I am glad.  So just play the game already. 

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I have been playing for a couple of years from WotLK to now. I have gotten serious because I have liked the content on some of the expac's and eh..not so much on others. I didn't even level all my toons on WoD. But I am really liking Legion. Yes, its change and a lot of people will always complain about change. But I feel the changes were well thought out - well, expect for the leveling of profs. But that's just me complaining because i can't sit and level them through mats i've collected on other toons. I'm finding it challenging and it is going at a pretty nice clip now I understand it.

I felt strongly enough about this to actually join Icy Veins so I could comment. Blizzard, you did a good job on this one, thank you!

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It was pretty long before I got my first legendary. A healer in our guild got 3, not 1, 3 legendaries before I saw my first. Some folks got 2. She got 3 BiS legendaries while I got what is considered one of the worst Balance druid pieces (the boots). While I'm happy for her, I can't help but feel some yuckiness. It's not jealousy or envy, it's more bitterness on my part - not towards her. I don't know what it is but it doesn't feel great. I feel like my character is broken somehow, that no matter how many emissary boxes I open or mythics I go into, I'm just not going to see another legendary for a long time and when I do, it'll probably be Sephuz's Secret or Cinidaria. 

My issue isn't just with the whole bad luck scenario, it's that having "bad" legendaries feels oxymoronic in nature. They're legendaries simply because of ilvl in that aspect, because the equip just isn't that great for many of them. Imho, no legendary should be "bad". I can think of a million ways to improve and change the equip abilities of these to be more in line with what the spec needs. I mean, as it is, no legendaries assist or boost solar wrath or lunar strike, nothing boosts or assists moonfire or sunfire, yet and the one coming up seems like it may be bad news. There are so many things they could have done to make every legendary piece of equipment considered good, even if it albeit alters playstyle a bit. 

As just an example, how about having one that causes Moonfire or Sunfire to have a chance to generate empowerments for Wrath or Strike? How about one that causes Wrath or Strike to have a chance to cast Moonfire AND Sunfire on the target? Perhaps one that causes Moonfire or Sunfire charges to build up so the next one has a 100% chance to crit? Another that extends both Moon and Sunfire ticks by casting Wrath or Strike while empowered? Etc. Etc. Etc. So many ways to make legendaries NOT suck.

Now, I don't hate my legendary, I feel like it's saved me plenty but let's face it. I'm a balance druid and our healers are awesome, I probably use the ability way more than I need to - I would much rather a legendary that allowed me to boost my dps. As it is, I'm being turned down from random premade mythic groups because 1. I'm balance spec and there's a perception in the community that balance doesn't do great dps and let's face it, the truth is that with all the movement required for some of these mythic+s, that may be true (I shudder at volcanic) and 2. I have no dps legendaries. To hell if I've cleared it before or have Mythic equipment being worn, these are the reasons given to me. 

It makes me want to either just forget the spec and go heals (which I don't enjoy fulltime) or go feral (which isn't fun for me).

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To be honest about this Topic. What they wrote is just a justification for how shitty this legendary system is.
Someone on the WoW Forums wrote: "win of the casuals!" This is true. The casuals have won.
They can tell me what they want but even Player A will receive its legendary and even Player A will under very lucky circumstances get it before player B gets it.

They did soooo many things right in Legion, the artifact weapon feels great, the world quests are fine, but what they fucked up are:
1. Tab targeting; minor problem
2. Dmg balancing (we think specc A is too strong, we nerf it and buff Specc B, so Specc B is more powerful than Specc A, What???)
3. Random Luck Legendary Dropping System

My point about the legendaries is:
1. why not make them crafted? Questline that gives you the base item and you can get stuff from nhc/HC/Mythic and mythic+ dungeons to upgrade it
2. Craft it the way you want. Put some cool stats on it and choose from 2 effects for each item to put on

I dont mind if someone gets a drop before me or deserves it more than I do. But I hate is the fact that someone can get it in LFr without putting some effort into anything, while others clear mythic raids and dungeons and leave the game with empty hands.... you should be rewarded for effort, not just pure luck. it stinks ....

and... why this 895 to 910, back to 895 back to 910??

 

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16 hours ago, Lokodot said:

Four weeks in a row now I have received a helmet from my weekly mythic cache.  I have 2 legendary items, but they are sephuz and prydaz which are actually downgrades compared to gear i have in my bags.  

For M+, surely Sephuz actually performs pretty well? It depends on the class I guess, but yeah. It's worth noting that you have 2 legendaries already, so you had very good luck with getting legendaries, just not the right ones. They still do well in certain situations, they just aren't the crazy good ones.

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16 minutes ago, Lokodot said:

I think you forgot to read the rest of my post.  You're taking my words out of context and therefore you are part of toxic community within World of Warcraft.  You completely ignored the majority of my comments.  You're a bigot and completely ignorant.  In the future I would ask you to keep your opinion to yourself if you're going to take others words out of context just to try and be toxic towards others in the community.

I just didn't see much point in replying to the rest, since it was essentially a complaint about the way legendary allocation works. I was in no way toxic, a bigot or ignorant, but thanks.

Given that my job here is solely about helping people, which I do every day, I strongly doubt I am trying to be toxic to the community on purpose as you said.

Regardless, back to the point at hand; as always with these issues, there will be a vocal group. Nobody is going to come onto a forum to say, "I love Blizzard, I just got a pretty decent legendary for my main spec and I am pretty happy about it." They will tell a few friends, maybe link it in /2, whatever it might be. The reason it seems that the majority of people are unhappy is due to the fact that the most vocal people on the subject will ALWAYS be those that are unhappy. 

Let's continue on with your suggestion though. Let's allocate legendaries a better way. Now, all legendaries are awarded based on effort put in. How do we measure this?

  • Total time spent playing?
  • Time spent in instances?
  • Time spent farming herbs?
  • Time spent mining?
  • Time spent crafting gear?
  • Time spent doing World Quests?
  • Time spent wiping on a certain boss?
  • Time spent in Mythic raids?

As you can see, this list goes on and on and on. I could list every activity in the game and we could have someone do that for 24 hours straight. Every single person has participated in an activity in game for the same amount of time, they pay the same subscription fee to put in the same effort for 24 hours of time spent playing.

So who gets the legendary first?

Well, maybe we can differentiate between the activities based on the amount of effort they put into it.

  • Total distance travelled to complete the activity?
  • Total number of keys pressed?
  • Total number of mouse clicks?
  • Total number of kills achieved?
  • Total number of players killed?
  • Total number of gold earned?
  • Total number of resources earned?
  • Total amount of reputation earned?

So - No, I was not being toxic. I just didn't want to reply to a suggestion which has been explained multiple times by Blizzard as to why it does not work. You cannot simply do an equation of Effort = Reward because there are far too many different ways to play WoW, even now within PvE. If you were to remove every single other aspect of the game except PvE, you would still have World Quests, World Bosses, Raids (LFR - Normal - Heroic - Mythic), Dungeons (Normal, Heroic, Mythic, Mythic +1, Mythic +2 ... Mythic +15), Reputation Farming. If you wipe for 3 hours on a Mythic raid boss, how does that compare vs. 3 hours of clearing a Mythic+10 dungeon? Which is more difficult? Which requires more effort?

If you remove RNG, you end up dealing with a horrendous situation of completely devaluing certain areas of the game.

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22 minutes ago, Lokodot said:

You are taking my words out of context again and inserting your own words.  

I'm not quite sure how I am taking them out of context when you have plainly said that allocation should prefer effort over RNG? You aren't satisfied with the in-between of bad luck protection, correct? In your own words, you said that something needs to change, right? You don't want to go further towards RNG, you don't like the current system, so naturally, the only way to go is towards effort, right?

If you needed to expand on this, why didn't you in your second message rather than deciding to call me names for no reason? Especially given that my post was attempting to shed a positive light on something you weren't happy with?

24 minutes ago, Lokodot said:

I never full said they should base the loot 100% off the effort a player puts in.  One of my main points is that these people that log in and sit idle in Dalaran, or maybe run one dungeon a week are the ones getting legendary items in my experience in the game at the moment.

I'm not going to bother with any of the insults, I'll just be ignoring them and warning you accordingly. Moving on to this, in my personal experience, the people that have no legendaries in my social circle are the people that log every few days, do a few world quests, do a dungeon or two and log off. My girlfriend logs in once per week at max, does LFR, does a Mythic dungeon or two and logs off. No legendary.

35 minutes ago, Lokodot said:

Now back to your first post, you answered many of your own questions in that post and contradicted yourself.  You were talking about me having 2 legendaries and said that is good, but then also said they are situational at best.  One is a world PVP legendary, and  the other is a minor absorb shield that more useful to LFR level players and not mythic raiders.  

Sephuz is certainly not a world PvP legendary. In M+, you can proc it in a multitude of ways. In raids, certain spells proc it even on immune bosses. There are plenty of applications in PvE, so you can't just write this off as a PvP legendary. The neck is much more situational, but if you need it for soloing elites in World Quests, you can use it. 

54 minutes ago, Lokodot said:

Two Legendary items is on the lower end for most of the community as well.  I know many players with 4-7 legendary pieces on one toon.  Even if you combined the 2 I have they still don't amount to some of the effects on the BiS legendary items for different classes in the game.

0 legendaries here over what is now 8 (I think) 110s. Most geared one isn't that high, around 865, lowest is 820 or so.

38 minutes ago, Lokodot said:

The loot system is still broken, has been, and likely always will be, but to make a players success in this expansion based on being lucky or unlucky is wrong.  You reap what you sow and there are people doing little to no work and receiving the best items in the game while people that are working hard to be successful are being oppressed by this loot system which blizzard insists is not broken.

Is it better to make a guild's progression rely on one individual? Look at Tarecgosa in Firelands. You had guilds investing every run into getting a single item for one player that was a huge DPS increase, then that person would just leave the guild. They might stop playing, get bored, whatever. How would that one person be selected? Can that person guarantee 100% attendance?

Is it better to make them an RNG drop from one boss like the Warglaives were? Should you have to sit there and divide loot to what you feel is the "best" player of that class? Should you have people sidelined on receiving legendaries just because they aren't best friends with their GM? What if you miss a raid, your legendary drops and now you won't be seeing it again for the next 6 months?

Do you see what I am trying to say here? It's not perfect, but this system of legendaries is still better than it ever was before. The people that receive this stuff for doing nothing are the exception, not the rule. There are probably millions of people that never log on and don't have a legendary, have 810 item level and do a few world quests here and there. There's probably someone out there that has full 800 gear and 1 895 piece that they got lucky with a huge TF roll on, or a legendary that they can't use properly.

Does it honestly matter? They are a huge exception. There is undoubtedly someone that got a legendary on the first WQ they ever completed. Do you think that happens to every person playing except you?

55 minutes ago, Lokodot said:

You're clearly a close minded person because you're failing to see the bigger picture here.  I don't understand how you're even qualified to be a moderator on this website with the ignorance you've put on display here.

I'm sure you'll respond with more stuff like this, telling me how bigoted I am and whatever else. Go for it. I've said my piece, I'll be putting a warning on your account for what was honestly a ridiculous first response. You could have elaborated on your point, avoided this crap and simply had a normal discussion. Instead you decided to do whatever it was that you did.

Thanks for commenting.

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On ‎11‎/‎20‎/‎2016 at 11:21 AM, Lokodot said:

Here is a radical idea, how about a system that actually rewards effort more than it rewards the so called "Player A" just because they are supposedly "luckier."

How would you measure this? Is it time put in as Blainie said?  Would it be based on dungeons run, monsters killed, bosses downed?  How?  You sure like to complain much but you don't have an answer.  RNG is in every MMO out there.  

1 hour ago, Lokodot said:

Two Legendary items is on the lower end for most of the community as well.  I know many players with 4-7 legendary pieces on one toon.

Really?  Must be your server then.  I have several toons across lots of servers and having 2 legendaries is pretty good. 

 

1 hour ago, Lokodot said:

The loot system is still broken, has been, and likely always will be, but to make a players success in this expansion based on being lucky or unlucky is wrong.  You reap what you sow and there are people doing little to no work and receiving the best items in the game while people that are working hard to be successful are being oppressed by this loot system which blizzard insists is not broken.

Why is a player's success based on that?  I have one legendary on my main (Just got it today) and I have been in many raids, mythics up to 10+ and been invited to many groups.  You know why?  I am a good player.  I know fights.  I do good dps (Ret Pally)  and I am friendly.  I have my gear ready to go for anything.  I listen and provide help where needed.  I put effort in even if It doesn't get me a legendary.  I earned my raiding spot without one.  I know many players like that.  Players who are successful and who do well in their roles.  You seem to think that a player is worthless if they don't have one, that they can't compete and be viable for raids and high level mythics.  That everything they do is pointless without the BiS legendary.  You are wrong.  Knowing how to play, what your role is and having a good attitude is far more important than what gear you have.

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Right, so I registered to make this comment, mostly because Lokodot is coming across as super entitled. I pay £9 a month to play WoW. I play whenever I have the time. I don't do half the shit you guys do. Guess what, I'd like a legendary just as oftenas you. Why? Because all our "effort" in this virtual world is giving £9 to Blizz. Nothing else you do affects their bottom line. Stop being entitled, RNG is RNG. It's Random. You're lucky or you're not, stop crying about it. Or go sue some random government because you haven't won the lottery in this perfectly fair world.

Man, I honestly feel sorry for you Lokodot when you enter the real world...

 

(edit) Darkjester, I agree with pretty much everything you said. I've got Immortal and Undying, I don't mess around when I'm in a group but sometimes you just don't have the time to play, Blizz get this and understand that your £9 is the same as everyone elses £9. If they didn't I can guarantee they wouldn't be in the position they are right now (speaking as a game dev myself)

Edited by Aerashi

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10 hours ago, Darkjester79 said:

Really?  Must be your server then.  I have several toons across lots of servers and having 2 legendaries is pretty good. 

I wish I knew what server he was on. I'd totally move there and get myself 5 legendaries, it'd be worth the transfer money tbh!

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9 hours ago, Lokodot said:

So you're pointing out the fact that you've spent more time leveling than playing toons at 110, yet you're commenting on a legendary thread that talks about people who spend time doing content at 110 on 1 toon.

In what way does that make you qualified to even have such a biased opinion on this topic?

You are aware that it takes about 10 hours to level from 100-110, right? The game has been out for nearly two months. I could have levelled 30 characters and still had 30 days of playing 1 character.

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3 hours ago, Blainie said:

You are aware that it takes about 10 hours to level from 100-110, right? The game has been out for nearly two months. I could have levelled 30 characters and still had 30 days of playing 1 character.

Right! Clearly the person does not. I am dumbfounded this person lambasted you so hardcore.  hell they got two legendaries, and here i am inheroic EN, been playing my DH tank exclusively since legion launched,  and not only do i not have my legendary i also don't have my hidden artifact appearance because it wont drop x.x, i have received 4 hateful eyes since legion launched but still no vengeance appearance. Feels bad man. Wish i was as lucky as that joe bro.

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I don't see whats so hard about it. 

Legendaries are special. RNG-Legendary-System is unfair.

 

Connect any kind of content to points for spending on a legendary of your choice. E.g. you need 250 tokenpoints for one legendary. Mythic gives 1. Every additional mythic level gives 8% more (e.g. mythic2 gives 1,08) ETC ETC.

Not too hard to make it fair.

 

MIMIMIMI BUT WHAT ABOUT OTHER LEGENDARYS EVERYONE WILL PICK ONLY THE BEST MIMIMIMI... yeah thats blizzards problem.

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2 hours ago, Darsch said:

no vengeance appearance

Only managed to get the Brewmaster Monk one so far, been doing the criteria whenever I can on other characters and still nothing. I don't even play Brew! :(

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1 hour ago, Amateurpeeweeeeh said:

Not too hard to make it fair.

How would you alter points for different affixes on M+? Some are harder than others, surely, no? Do you award more points for those that contribute more to deter boosting? Is it fair to allow someone to buy 50 M+ runs with either real money or gold and get their legendary faster than others?

How do you balance it vs PvP? Is a Mythic Helya kill worth more than achieving Rank 1? What about time disparity? Surely killing Mythic Helya in the first week is worth more than killing her 8 weeks later?

What about speed of completion in M+? 

I just think there are a lot more pieces at work here than a simple weighting of points.

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Everything about the Legendary system is awful, and it is a blight on what is otherwise an incredible expansion.  Having such powerful items be randomly given out, with players having no actual control over it, was a poor mistake from the outset. Variance sucks, especially in this regard.

This is only magnified by the fact that some of the legendaries are absurdly powerful, while others are literally worse than 860 ilvl items, and the worst legendaries are the ones that EVERYONE can get(neck and ring), which exacerbates the problem.

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      King Mechagon Normal Kin'garoth Normal 7 hour kill in Antorus MOTHER Normal in Uldir Taloc Normal in Uldir Vectis Normal in Uldir Argus Normal in Antorus Portal Keeper Hasabel Normal in Antorus Garothi Worldbreaker and Eonar Normal in Antorus
    • By Stan
      We've entered Visions of N'Zoth Week 10 which means that the weekly Conquest cap now rewards item level 460 gear (up from 445), so make sure to collect 500 Conquest to get the weapon this week.
      PvP rewards for collecting 500 Conquest in Season 4 were of item level 445 (Weeks 2-9) so far Starting this week, the item level of Conquest rewards has been increased by 15. Don't forget that there's a catchup system in place, allowing you to continuously earn rewards if you start playing later in the Season. Don't forget that you must earn rewards from Weeks 1-9 to start receiving ilvl 460 rewards. Season 4 Conquest Schedule
      Week
      Item Level
      Item 1
      Item 2
      1
      440
      Weapon
       
      2
      445
      Head
       
      3
      445
      Legs
      Wrist
      4
      445
      Trinket
       
      5
      445
      Chest
       
      6
      445
      Hand
      Waist
      7
      445
      Shoulder
       
      8
      445
      Trinket
       
      9
      445
      Feet
      Finger
      10
      460
      Weapon
       
      11
      460
      Head
       
      12
      460
      Legs
      Waist
      13
      460
      Trinket
       
      14
      460
      Chest
       
      15
      460
      Hand
      Wrist
      16
      460
      Shoulder
       
      17
      460
      Trinket
       
      18
      460
      Finger
      Feet
      19
      460
      Weapon
       
      20
      460
      Head
       
      21
      460
      Waist
      Legs
      22
      460
      Trinket
       
      23
      460
      Chest
       
      24
      460
      Legs
      Finger
      25
      460
      Shoulder
       
      26 460 Head   27 460 Hand Feet 28 460 Chest   29 460 Shoulder   30 460 Wrist Waist
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