Starym

Will We Fight Sargeras on Argus?

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Dev tweet implies he might be a boss in the Argus raid.


This twitter interaction cam up recently, where Creative Director/story and lore guy Alex Afrasiabi mentions fighting Sargeras...kind of. Now, we know we'll be dealing with the fallen Titan's avatar near the end of the Tomb of Sargeras, but this interaction is focused on Argus and the "man" himself.

This may just be general playfulness and an off-hand comment, but Blizzard could actually be aiming to "end" the Burning Legion story line with this expansion completely, in order to move on to the Old Gods and Void Lords. Since we don't really have any specific clues as to what bosses will appear in the Argus raid, and we're getting to re-kill Kil'jaeden in the Tomb already, there don't seem to be many candidates for the Argus raid endboss, unless it's just a re-re-do combo of Archimonde + Kil'jaeden.

So if Sargeras is showing up as the big bad at the end of Legion, what would be better: that he actually dies once and for all, ending the Burning Legion story line that's been the foundation for Warcraft, or that he's just defeated and retreats just like every other demon (and most important bosses, come to think of it) has done in the past?

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1 hour ago, MrEdren said:

20 mortals, well-armed or no, should NOT be able to take down a demigod.

He's in fact much more than a demigod. The titans are on the same "level" as the old gods. The old gods are created from void, while titans come from the light. There are no mightier entities than those two. I agree though that he's much more powerful than any group of mortals. I suspect (if he really is the final boss), he will just be imprisoned again. Hopefully behind some stronger "bars" :)

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In a way, it does sort of make sense to fight Sargie despite the inherent silliness of us being able to so much as dent him.

If\when we successfully kill or re-banish him... there really isn't anyone or anything else that can keep the OG's in check.  Sets up the next expansion pretty cleanly. 

Also Jaina is Queen Azshara.

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2 hours ago, Sintharis said:

He's in fact much more than a demigod. The titans are on the same "level" as the old gods. The old gods are created from void, while titans come from the light. There are no mightier entities than those two. I agree though that he's much more powerful than any group of mortals. I suspect (if he really is the final boss), he will just be imprisoned again. Hopefully behind some stronger "bars" :)

Actually, the titans are neutral. Naaru are the equivalent of void lords and said void lords are afraid and jealous of the titans, that's what prompted them to create the old gods and send em to find a baby titan to corrupt. As for greater beings, the one that towers above everything else in warcraft universe is by far Elune, probably being the only god, actual god. She created the light, the void and all that stuff or at least she was already there when everything came into existence. 

 

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15 minutes ago, Alexzsander said:

Actually, the titans are neutral. Naaru are the equivalent of void lords and said void lords are afraid and jealous of the titans, that's what prompted them to create the old gods and send em to find a baby titan to corrupt. As for greater beings, the one that towers above everything else in warcraft universe is by far Elune, probably being the only god, actual god. She created the light, the void and all that stuff or at least she was already there when everything came into existence. 

 

Titans are not "neutral". They are the void lord equivalent for the arcane. Void lord= shadow, Naaru= light , Titans = arcane, Demons=fel, wild gods = life

Edited by Cloudyyshape

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1 hour ago, Alexzsander said:

Actually, the titans are neutral. Naaru are the equivalent of void lords and said void lords are afraid and jealous of the titans, that's what prompted them to create the old gods and send em to find a baby titan to corrupt. As for greater beings, the one that towers above everything else in warcraft universe is by far Elune, probably being the only god, actual god. She created the light, the void and all that stuff or at least she was already there when everything came into existence. 

 

I'm pretty sure that vowing to eliminate fully 1/2 of the known universe means you aren't neutral.

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21 minutes ago, MrEdren said:

I'm pretty sure that vowing to eliminate fully 1/2 of the known universe means you aren't neutral.

Erm, not sure what you mean here, wasn't it just Sargeras that decided to go full retard and start destroying everything and the Pantheon was against it so he murdered them?

Or do you mean just their general opposition to the Void Lords?

Also, I don't think I can hate anything more in the lore than I hate the new Elune. They couldn't make her a titan since they decided that they were all dead, wrote themselves into a corner but NOPE, hey she's something TOTALLY different you guys, you don't even KNOW!111 The whole lore thing is really becoming a clusterfuck because they did the usual shit writer thing of retconning instead of connecting existing lore (although it all started way back in BC with the whole eredar/dranei thing so it's not like it matters in the slightest).

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Well, I think that IF we get the finally fight thr true Sargeras, it will be with some sort of gimmick during the fight, like having aid from a higher entity like the Naaru and/or possibly the Watchers, if not the entire resistance against the Legion so it becomes a cinematic battle. Let's not forget that the Pillars will play a pivotal role in this expansion, so probably they will be playing a role in the final battle too. And there is also Illidan reborn, which is said to be final hope against the Legion.

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2 hours ago, Valhalen said:

Well, I think that IF we get the finally fight thr true Sargeras, it will be with some sort of gimmick during the fight, like having aid from a higher entity like the Naaru and/or possibly the Watchers, if not the entire resistance against the Legion so it becomes a cinematic battle. Let's not forget that the Pillars will play a pivotal role in this expansion, so probably they will be playing a role in the final battle too. And there is also Illidan reborn, which is said to be final hope against the Legion.

Yep, I expect that we'll be seeing Gullidan at the end of the Big Climactic Battle Sequence.

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13 hours ago, Starym said:

Erm, not sure what you mean here, wasn't it just Sargeras that decided to go full retard and start destroying everything and the Pantheon was against it so he murdered them?

Or do you mean just their general opposition to the Void Lords?

Also, I don't think I can hate anything more in the lore than I hate the new Elune. They couldn't make her a titan since they decided that they were all dead, wrote themselves into a corner but NOPE, hey she's something TOTALLY different you guys, you don't even KNOW!111 The whole lore thing is really becoming a clusterfuck because they did the usual shit writer thing of retconning instead of connecting existing lore (although it all started way back in BC with the whole eredar/dranei thing so it's not like it matters in the slightest).

It was just Sargeras, but the whole thing was kicked off by the Pantheon sending him out to seek and destroy Old Gods everywhere in the universe.  Once he went full Simple Plan, then yeah he was just being a loon.  EDIT: Also, not all the Titans were opposed to the idea.

I honestly don't know much of anything about Elune lore-wise; I assume she's an Old God of some sort (I'm also not convinced that the Naaru and 'the light' are the good guys here).  

Is it just me or do the X'era cutscenes look ripped wholesale from FF14's Hydaelyn\Ascian bits?

Edited by MrEdren

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Blizzard changed so many things about the lore through the years that I wouldn't be surprised if they found a way to make him weak and then create a new ennemi never seen before much more powerfull than him... 

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Let's not forget that Azeroth itself is a titan, just one that has not "matured into being" so to speak.  It could be that a victory over Sargeras requires the Pillars to in essence "wake up" Azeroth for this final fight.  I'm probably reaching but this would tie in lore without having Blizzard back themselves into a "retcon" corner.

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1 hour ago, DeathsDesign said:

Let's not forget that Azeroth itself is a titan, just one that has not "matured into being" so to speak.  It could be that a victory over Sargeras requires the Pillars to in essence "wake up" Azeroth for this final fight.  I'm probably reaching but this would tie in lore without having Blizzard back themselves into a "retcon" corner.

I can't see them waking up Azeroth just yet.  That is what we will likely do during the Old God expansion, where we have to battle N'Zoth, Queen Azshara, and possibly the resurgence of the Black Empire.  Who, once defeated, will free the world of Void Corruption and (stretching) prove that "life" is capable of defending itself against future corruption.  The "birth" of Azeroth will be the end of WoW - a new titan to protect the universe; one more powerful than Sargeras, and with full knowledge of the Void Lords and how to defeat them.  I can see them using Shadow Priests and Warlocks to reveal the full Void plot, through class-quests; since both classes tap into the power of the Void.

I doubt we will fight anything but an avatar of Sargeras.  Even with a massive amount of support from a wide variety of characters, the battle would be incredibly one-sided, if we were to face the true Sargeras.  The Legion will be destroyed on Argus.

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Interestingly, everyone says that we mortals can't deny Sargeras, but let's not forget the heroic sacrifice of Broxigar. The weapon he wielded may well have been born of the powers of Cenarius, but he alone managed to injure Sargeras, as he stood atop a mountain of slain demons.

 

Now, champions of the mortal world wield more powerful weapons than ever before, many of them even used by the Legion.

 

I don't think the denizens of Azeroth have ever been more prepared to finally put a stop to Sargeras' Burning Crusade! And the Void Lords are the real threat that's been hidden from us this whole time. We'll have to be far stronger to defeat them.

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5 minutes ago, HMNIW said:

Interestingly, everyone says that we mortals can't deny Sargeras, but let's not forget the heroic sacrifice of Broxigar. The weapon he wielded may well have been born of the powers of Cenarius, but he alone managed to injure Sargeras, as he stood atop a mountain of slain demons.

He only made a small dent on his body, and since then the power of the Titans has been changed. In the novels, the Old Gods would be more powerfull than Sargeras if set free, but in the new version stated in the chronicles book we know that a titan can easily defeat an old god just by grabbing him. 

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5 hours ago, Ancalagon said:

I can't see them waking up Azeroth just yet.  That is what we will likely do during the Old God expansion, where we have to battle N'Zoth, Queen Azshara, and possibly the resurgence of the Black Empire.  Who, once defeated, will free the world of Void Corruption and (stretching) prove that "life" is capable of defending itself against future corruption.  The "birth" of Azeroth will be the end of WoW - a new titan to protect the universe; one more powerful than Sargeras, and with full knowledge of the Void Lords and how to defeat them.  I can see them using Shadow Priests and Warlocks to reveal the full Void plot, through class-quests; since both classes tap into the power of the Void.

I doubt we will fight anything but an avatar of Sargeras.  Even with a massive amount of support from a wide variety of characters, the battle would be incredibly one-sided, if we were to face the true Sargeras.  The Legion will be destroyed on Argus.

I don't think Azeroth's awakening will be the end of WoW or Warcraft, I think it'll happen sooner rather than later. They'll just do the usual thing of her awakening, helping us out with something (maybe defeating Sargeras or later defeating Old Gods) thus expending her energy or whatever fluff thing they go with and then going back to hybernation because she isn't ready to awake just yet. Personally I'd bet money on us fighting some iteration of Azeroth titan in the next xpansion that's being corrupted by the Old Gods and the only way to save her is be doing 15 billion damage to something or other.

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2 hours ago, Starym said:

Personally I'd bet money on us fighting some iteration of Azeroth titan in the next xpansion that's being corrupted by the Old Gods and the only way to save her is be doing 15 billion damage to something or other.

Excellent point, that does seem most likely.

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16 hours ago, Starym said:

15 billion damage

that's like, 1 execute crit next expansion, right?

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I expect we will fight Sargeras in some form at the end of this expac. Blizzard made it pretty clear that they were wrappin up all burning legion stuff with this expansion. Now, the question at hand though is how we are "fighting" him. So because of some spoilers we know certain peeps are traveling with us to argus. So imagine almost an Archimonde type deal where there are big named NPCs "helping" us. As far as actually killing Sargeras I imagine more we'll weaken him and end up sealing or imprisoning him or something old school style. Even then the order hall naaru questline really points at army of light stuff, so it may be we weaken him and a Naaru or the army of light or something will get the killing blow.

So yes we will fight sargeras, yes he will be finished off/dealt with, but no we won't get killing blow, some npc will and sargeras will be banished, purified, something like that. 

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On 12/21/2016 at 11:58 AM, demonardvark said:

So yes we will fight sargeras, yes he will be finished off/dealt with, but no we won't get killing blow, some npc will and sargeras will be banished, purified, something like that. 

I do wonder if there is some way that Sargeras could be held accountable for what he has done by the remnants of the Pantheon? Maybe there is some part of them still left or something that helps us.

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On 12/19/2016 at 10:59 AM, Asthannoln said:

Blizzard changed so many things about the lore through the years that I wouldn't be surprised if they found a way to make him weak and then create a new ennemi never seen before much more powerfull than him... 

You're referring to Dragonball Z Syndrome.

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1 hour ago, Blainie said:

I do wonder if there is some way that Sargeras could be held accountable for what he has done by the remnants of the Pantheon? Maybe there is some part of them still left or something that helps us.

Pretty sure the titans are All The Way Dead, but the celestials (Algalon... Harbaron?) should still be around.  Not to mention Magni and whatever else Ilgy was on about.  We'll definitely have big time allies if it comes down to that.

Edit: And the Keepers, can't forget about them.  Not that I'd want Mimiron on my side.

Edited by MrEdren

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On 12/22/2016 at 2:39 PM, MrEdren said:

Pretty sure the titans are All The Way Dead, but the celestials (Algalon... Harbaron?) should still be around.  Not to mention Magni and whatever else Ilgy was on about.  We'll definitely have big time allies if it comes down to that.

Yeah, there's no way they're going to allow us to be the ones to actually kill him. It'll be Dragon Soul-style again. He gets weakened, we then help some big guys, they end up killing him.

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13 minutes ago, Blainie said:

Yeah, there's no way they're going to allow us to be the ones to actually kill him. It'll be Dragon Soul-style again. He gets weakened, we then help some big guys, they end up killing him.

Sounds about right.  Although they've never actually given any sort of insight at all about what's required to actually kill a Titan or an OG - the lore just says 'an old god and titan died but no history was recorded' etc etc etc.  

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      The loot mode will automatically activate when you enter a dungeon or raid that's trivial for you (your character is 10+ levels higher than the dungeon or raid's intended level). The number of items dropped by bosses will be the same as it would have been if you were in a full party or raid. All items on the loot table will have a chance to drop, regardless of your set Loot Specialization. Loot will be tradable and split among members of your party or raid. Blizzard (Source)
      Since the Patch 7.3.5 change to use personal loot rules in leveling dungeons, we’ve heard a lot of feedback from Transmog hunters concerned about how this has affected the ability to collect appearances from older content. We hear you, and agree it’s a problem, so we’ve been working on a more robust solution for Battle for Azeroth. Once these updates are implemented, entering a dungeon or raid that is trivial for you (i.e.: your character is 10 or more levels higher than the dungeon or raid’s intended level) will activate a “legacy loot mode.” That loot mode will work like this:
      The number of items dropped by bosses will be the same as it would have been if you were in a full party. So if you’re in a 5-player dungeon, you’ll get 5 players’ worth of loot. For raids with a flexible raid size (such as Raid Finder), this will act as though there were 20 players in the raid. All items on the loot table will have a chance to drop, not just the ones that are designated for your spec. If you have multiple players in the group, the loot will be split among those players, but be tradeable. For example, if you’re clearing with one other player and kill a boss that should drop 4 items, you’ll each be able to pick up two items and trade them between each other if you like. While the personal loot change was a key part of what allowed us to expand leveling dungeons to encompass a wider range of levels, and we’re happy with it in that environment, we recognize that it’s not a great experience for those who enjoy clearing older content for transmog, and hope that these changes will make that more enjoyable once they’re complete. 
      Thanks again for all of the feedback!
      Squish [Return to Top] 
      Numbers and item levels are crunched down in the 8.0 pre-patch. Player power is unaffected by the stat squish. Blizzard's also reducing item levels, so for instance, Legion Legendary items will be of item level 190 (down from 1,000). Multiboxing Changes [Return to Top] 
      In order to balance World PvP, the /follow command will not work in combat with War Mode enabled. Click here to learn more about multiboxing changes in the pre-patch.
      Datamined Global Strings
      ERR_INVALID_FOLLOW_PVP_COMBAT - You can't use follow while engaged in PVP combat. ERR_INVALID_FOLLOW_TARGET_PVP_COMBAT - You can't follow a player who is engaged in PVP combat. War of Thorns Event [Return to Top] 
      The pre-expansion event will be available starting the week of July 24. The Horde will begin their match upon the kaldorei. The attack has two stages. Completing the first part unlocks Darkshore World Quests, whereas the second part rewards two mounts: Smoldering Reins of the Teldrassil Hippogryph & War-Torn Reins of the Undercity Plaguebat.
      War of Thorns Preview (Alliance Pov) - TBA War of Thorns Preview (Horde PoV) *contains spoilers* Environmental Changes (Darkshore, Lordaeron) *contains spoilers* UI Changes & Map Improvements [Return to Top] 
      Layout of the default user interface has been slightly updated in Battle for Azeroth. The bottom right bar has 6 slots and the right bars 12 slots each.

      Map Improvements
      The map has been improved in Battle for Azeroth. Boats and zeppelins are now visible on the map.

      World bosses in Outland, Pandaria, and Draenor now have their spawn locations indicated on the map. Click the icon to access more information about the boss (model, loot).

      PvP Changes & War Mode [Return to Top] 
      Battleground Changes
      Strand of Ancients and Ashran along with all related achievements have been removed. Alterac and Isle of Conquest (40v40) have been added to a separate queue also known as Epic Battlegrounds. The option to Blacklist Battlegrounds has been removed. Legion PvP Post-Season
      The final Legion PvP Season is coming with the launch of the 8.0 pre-patch, but comes with no rewards.
      War Mode
      Server types are changing in the pre-patch with the introduction of War Mode. We no longer have separate PvP/PvE realm types. Instead, players decided to opt in World PvP, by enabling War Mode.
      War Mode can be activated in Stormwind and Orgrimmar. Enabling War Mode increases XP gains by 10% Enlisted and grants access to PvP talents in the outdoor world. Players with enabled War Mode will be sharded with other players from different realms that have it on (with the exception of RP realms). If you decide to keep War Mode off, nobody will be able to attack you while questing.
      Animations [Return to Top] 
      Hunters and Warlocks had updated spell animations that will go live in the pre-patch.
      Content Removal [Return to Top] 
      First Aid, Mage Tower and many other things are going away in the Battle for Azeroth Pre-Patch. Folks at reddit have compiled a really list of things going away and you can find it here.
      Voice Chat Service [Return to Top] 
      Voice chat is now directly implemented into the game. A chat message will appear whenever you join a party or raid, giving you the option to join it. You can change your preferences under System > Voice Chat.