Copymark

Fire or Frost? 5.3 & 5.4

Sign in to follow this  

14 posts in this topic

Hello everyone!

 

As mentioned in the title of this thread, I am currently unsure about what spec I should play with my Mage. Especially because patch 5.4 is only 2 weeks away from being released, I need some serious advice on what spec will be dominant in the beginning of 5.4. (I am currently playing Frost, since my equip always lacked some crit)

 

When 5.2 came out, we Mages were more or less forced to play Frost. But since Fire scales so ridiculously with your gear, it became the dominant spec as people started to farm the raid. Now here comes my question. I had a little WoW-Pause during 5.2 progression and have recently started to do some of the HCs in order to get some gear for 5.4 raiding. I used to play Fire always but in 5.2 until now, my gear lacked the amounts of crit I needed to play Fire successfully. With a gearscore of about 515 I usually ended up with something like 25% crit (unbuffed) which made the Fire rotation feel like playing a slotmachine. As a result, I switched to Frost and was very happy with the outcome. That is until now.

 

Frost seems to scale rather badly with gear, so I thought that with my new gearscore of 532, it would be a good idea to go back to Fire and have some great results this time. Now, I don't know whether my equip will offer enough crit for me to play Fire effectively, neither do I know if Fire will even be the dominant spec in the beginning of 5.4 (with a 532 itemlevel) or if Frost will be chosen by most mages once again. And since I don't want to go Fire for 2 weeks now and then go back to Frost as soon as the new Patch is released, I seek your mighty advice.

 

So I started this thread to get some help from you guys.

 

Here's my armory: http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/character/eredar/Copymark/advanced

 

I hope to hear from you soon and I am excited to see what you guys think of my situation smile.png

Edited by Copymark

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well i am currently 537 and i can perform very good in Arcane tbh.....Frost indeed does not scale up good with ilvl.

 

For me stay like this.....and see after release what you will do...even though as i have read Bombs are going higher in damage in 5.4 and due to mastery in arcane.......bombs will be the key.

 

On the other hand Frost is not dependent on the debuff applied on your target in 5.4 so that is something to consider.

 

You have probably understood that i just hate Fire :)

 

I personally will stick with arcane till the release of 5.4 and probably stay the first week too...to test it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Have you tested out your character's dps on the PTR? I usually do but haven't yet this time due to RL busy-ness. I'd be very interested to see data / get opinions from someone who has.

 

My toon is in a similar situation: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/dark-iron/Mariketa/simple  Mostly ToT Normal gear valor-upgraded with a couple heroic pieces thrown in. (ilvl 537)

 

I love Frost and will accept some dps loss to avoid swapping. If the disparity is too high, I will take Fire. (Do not care for arcane. I will only play arcane if it is hands-down best.) I am pretty awesome at Frost *brushes off frost-tipped fingernails* but I could get good at fire again with some effort. I really did enjoy fire when I played that spec, but there's an adjustment period that I dislike.

 

Honestly I doubt anyone could give us a "definitive" best spec. And many people dislike the constant spec swapping (me) - so many people run to the FotM. Last week I did LFR ToT3 (for funsies and hoping for pets) and got ambushed by a mage on their healer alt telling me how I was all wrong to do frost I should go fire and i'd "get 15k+ more dps on that fight - at least!". Well, maybe but 1. we killed it no problem no wipes. What I can get now is more than good enough for the content i'm doing (first few heroics in ToT, much less that LFR), and 2. with the patch coming out change is in the air. I'm real skeptical of "experts" telling me what to do on the tail end of content. I think blizz has done a much better job balancing the specs lately. What is most important? I was slamming most of the other dps on the meters both near top of damage done and near bottom of damage taken, and I generally know how to execute mechanics so I'm an asset to my raid team. Play what you like!

 

So what I did, and what I suggest you do, is - update your UI on your secondary fire spec and practice for 30 min. a couple times over the weekend on the target dummy. Try it out in a couple scenarios or something next week just to brush that skill off. (I did a couple brawler's bosses as fire too.) For the new raid I'm sticking with frost to start, but this way it won't be so painful to swap to fire if I feel like I'm losing too much dps.

Edited by Mariketa

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Arcane is the only mage spec not getting nerfed in 5.4, so I will continue to do what I do.

 

Frost doesn't get nerfed as well. It just scales so bad that it sucks basically.. biggrin.png

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Most people agree that frost scales badly with gear, but I personally hate the rng nature of fire so have stuck with it till now.  Arcane suffered because you had to stand on your rune of power, but with the up coming change where you only have to be within 8 yards of the rune arcane may once again become viable.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I to have been switching specs throughout these last couple of weeks before the release of 5.4. Mainly so that I can get a feel for all of them in case my core needs me to switch. I had tried fire around 515, and it just was not holding up at all. So I switched back to frost and my dps went up like 20k, which was great. Now that I have been farming normal and heroics for awhile, I have now reached 530 (no cloak or meta yet, started late). What I have noticed on my way from 515-530 was, I hardly increased my dps at all lol. Frost just does not scale well with gear at all, period. It is fun to play, but in its current state can not compete when you start doing some of the harder heroics where dps really counts.

 

I have now switched to fire and am excited to test it out tonight in my core as we clear the rest of tot tonight. I have about 8-10 percent more crit now than I did when I played it before. Just from testing in LFR and on dummies, I can see that I have increased all ready. I have always liked fire, but just didn't have the gear to sustain it this tier until now.

 

With the nerf coming to combustion in 5.4, I am not sure how well fire is going to do. Arcane is getting a nice buff with the rune of power being changed, frost is getting a great mastery change and no more having to keep frostbolt debuff up. I understand why fire is getting nerfed, but it is still a major nerf to the only CD it has lol. So the first couple of weeks will tell a lot about what spec is going to be the " go to " spec for the tier. I still feel fire will pull ahead at later levels, but frost/arcane might be the way to go at first. Our core has 2 mages, both of us are fire and are staying fire for the start of SoO. I have a strong feeling I will switch back to frost though a week or 2 into the tier, but am not 100% sure yet. It will all depend on how well frost scales with the new mastery and how the fights are designed.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I to have been switching specs throughout these last couple of weeks before the release of 5.4. Mainly so that I can get a feel for all of them in case my core needs me to switch. I had tried fire around 515, and it just was not holding up at all. So I switched back to frost and my dps went up like 20k, which was great. Now that I have been farming normal and heroics for awhile, I have now reached 530 (no cloak or meta yet, started late). What I have noticed on my way from 515-530 was, I hardly increased my dps at all lol. Frost just does not scale well with gear at all, period. It is fun to play, but in its current state can not compete when you start doing some of the harder heroics where dps really counts.

 

I have now switched to fire and am excited to test it out tonight in my core as we clear the rest of tot tonight. I have about 8-10 percent more crit now than I did when I played it before. Just from testing in LFR and on dummies, I can see that I have increased all ready. I have always liked fire, but just didn't have the gear to sustain it this tier until now.

 

With the nerf coming to combustion in 5.4, I am not sure how well fire is going to do. Arcane is getting a nice buff with the rune of power being changed, frost is getting a great mastery change and no more having to keep frostbolt debuff up. I understand why fire is getting nerfed, but it is still a major nerf to the only CD it has lol. So the first couple of weeks will tell a lot about what spec is going to be the " go to " spec for the tier. I still feel fire will pull ahead at later levels, but frost/arcane might be the way to go at first. Our core has 2 mages, both of us are fire and are staying fire for the start of SoO. I have a strong feeling I will switch back to frost though a week or 2 into the tier, but am not 100% sure yet. It will all depend on how well frost scales with the new mastery and how the fights are designed.

I'd be interesting in hearing how fire went for you.  My raid asked me to move back to Frost because they weren't happy with my fire output.  I think it's basically because it's tough getting off good combustions in some situations.  Also I probably just wasn't the best at it, but I still think the RNG completely kills it.  I can have a 160k ignite or a 30k ignite at any given time doing exactly the same thing and I just couldn't stand that.  I hope frost is fixed for 5.4.  Not many mages have chimed in to say how they are doing on the ptr....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Frost is worse on ptr than it is live.  If you are in a normal raiding group then play what you like. Heroic progression groups may require you to play fire or arcane (much better damage at those ilvl's).  You'll never set dps records as frost but it doesn't matter for most groups because it's dps is still fine (but significantly behind the other two).  Arcane will pull ahead in multidot fights but fire is better single target currently.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'd be interesting in hearing how fire went for you.  My raid asked me to move back to Frost because they weren't happy with my fire output.  I think it's basically because it's tough getting off good combustions in some situations.  Also I probably just wasn't the best at it, but I still think the RNG completely kills it.  I can have a 160k ignite or a 30k ignite at any given time doing exactly the same thing and I just couldn't stand that.  I hope frost is fixed for 5.4.  Not many mages have chimed in to say how they are doing on the ptr....

First raid again as fire from my last experience. It actually went really well. H qon wasnt so good but I kept getting shafted by the shield dog during his phase and during the last phase when all 3 comes down. Had a 150k ignite that I was getting ready to combust off of and rng happened with the shields on my side. So my output was not very good on that one. But on consorts and lei shen I was in the top 3, which I never was when I played frost. I actually kept up with the other fire mage for most of consorts but he pulled away at the end, I couldn't get a trinket proc during lust to save my life lol. But I really did enjoy playing fire again and am probably gonna stay fire with arcane OS. I only keep frost currently for H horridon because I just hate dealing with the stupid dino.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't have the time to do real raiding, so I will only raid using LFR, and the good side for me is I can stick with Frost :) Everything I see and read, get used to Fire and keep it. Frost just won't keep up at any time.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

First raid again as fire from my last experience. It actually went really well. H qon wasnt so good but I kept getting shafted by the shield dog during his phase and during the last phase when all 3 comes down. Had a 150k ignite that I was getting ready to combust off of and rng happened with the shields on my side. So my output was not very good on that one. But on consorts and lei shen I was in the top 3, which I never was when I played frost. I actually kept up with the other fire mage for most of consorts but he pulled away at the end, I couldn't get a trinket proc during lust to save my life lol. But I really did enjoy playing fire again and am probably gonna stay fire with arcane OS. I only keep frost currently for H horridon because I just hate dealing with the stupid dino.

Well, i guess eventually i'll just have to go back and suck it up.  Hopefully in 5.4 getting screwed on a combustion won't kill your output like it does now....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well, i guess eventually i'll just have to go back and suck it up.  Hopefully in 5.4 getting screwed on a combustion won't kill your output like it does now....

 

For start of 5.4 I decided to do arcane. Only because of the combustion nerf. I had been trying to keep up with the other fire mage in our group for awhile until I recently found out he was one of the best ones on server, so I stopped trying lol. But the combustion nerf is what I am worried about. I always had trouble getting a decent ignite off unless its the begining of the fight, and with the nerf it's gonna make it harder for me. So I went arcane and have been doing well in my testing situations and things. So I will be raiding as arcane atleast for the first couple of weeks unless it turns out that fire still becomes dominant then I will switch back. Actually looking to raid on my boomkin as soon as I get him caught up on legendary =) lol.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The range buff that Blizzard implemented in 5.4 has turned out to be essential for the Immersius fight. In fact, the sha splashes almost make Incanter's ward worth it just for the mobility and instant cast.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
Sign in to follow this  

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

  • Similar Content

    • By Frozst
      Anyone already done the math on this?  Does it make it more beneficial to have Let It Go x3 (Frost, Arcane, Frost) and sacrifice iLVL on the artifact weapon or to have 3 other (not as effective) relics but with a higher iLVL. 
      Example:
      Let It Go (865, 885, 850)
      Other Relics (Ice Age 895, Obsidian Lance 895, Ice Age 900)
    • By Beautyman
      Oi, mates! Let me just briefly introduce me and this guild. My name is Beautymen and I have been playing ever since WoTLK. During this great expansion I was heavily involved into raiding on Quel'Thalas. Ever since I left these days behind the sensation of raiding and progressing has been tickling my sensitive parts. Therefore, when Legion launched I came back to play with my mate Kraishan and we founded Mythic Busters.
       
      What is Mythic Busters?
      Our guild, Mythic Busters, is a friendly bunch of people from all around the world who are looking to get into raiding. Especially, when you have been gone from the game for some time, you might have lost your raiding mojo and find it hard to be re-introduced.
      This guild offers you the chance to start raiding again in Legion through a fun and relaxed way. No hard requirements, just fair and square play. We have several divisions within the guild to cater to different players. For instance, we run Mythic+ to gear up new players and currently we are building progress and farm runs through the newest raids.
       
      What makes raiding different with you guys?
      Good question, me. Well, if I might be so egocentric as to say that first of all: I believe we have created a great atmosphere within our guild. I, as a raid leader, try to entertain the raid group on Discord by keeping our nights social and fun.

      Sounds great. When do you raid?
      Right now we raid on Wednesdays and Sundays from 7:30PM (invites) till about 11:00PM server time. These raids are currently focused on ToS HC progression. On Fridays we also run a normal mode farm for alts/lowerer geared members.
       
      Awesome. Who are you looking for?
      We accept any and every social player who is either experienced or new to raiding. Just be a chill or dude or dudewoman! And of course, ready slash willing to learn.
       
      You sold me at dudewoman! How do I join?
      Feel free to respond underneath this post or whisper me ingame (Beautymen-QuelThalas or Beautyman#2868).
    • By blackempire
      Wazzup this is my first forum post and stuff and im wondering what you think it the best talent to go for!
    • By Treylawny
      <Trust> may be what you're looking for if you enjoy killing internet dragons with a group of like minded players! Currently we are 8/9 Heroic, soon to be stepping into Mythic ToS. We are recruiting to finish rounding out our raid team. <Trust> is located on the [US] Doomhammer/Baelgun pve servers, alliance side! Check us out!
       
      About Us:
      <Trust> is a recently formed guild, founded by a group of long time players that have been raiding together for a couple of years now. Founded out of a desire to continue raiding in a casual-progression manner, we work towards defeating mythic bosses. <Trust> is a raiding guild, first and foremost.
       
      Our Raids:
      <Trust> maintains a progression-oriented 2-day semi-casual raiding team. That's 'semi' as in we expect our team members to always prioritize life first; but not 'casual' as in we take downing bosses less seriously. We strive to maintain a balance of taking our progression raids seriously while having plenty of laughs along the way.
       
      Raid Schedule:
      Tuesday & Thursday: 5p – 8p server (8p – 11p eastern)
      Friday(optional): 5p – 8p server (8p – 11p eastern)
       
      Recruitment:
      <Trust> is looking for full time Resto Druid, Mages, Hunters, and Warlocks for our raid team. We are also open for good people to join as casual players, pvpers, with the option to join farm content or alt raids.
       
      More Info:
      Feel free to reach out to us:
      Recruitment Officer:
      In game - Treylawny
      Battletag - Treylawny#1813
       
      Guild Lead:
      In game – Oleic
      Battletag - Jarg#1591
       
      -OR-
       
      Website and Application: <Trust> (US)Doomhammer/Baelgun
      (The app is quick and painless as its used primarily to get your name to us quickly!)
       
      Discord is our way of communicating during raid; also used for casual chatting!
       
    • By molodirazz
      All applications will be reviewed and considered however if you are playing a class/spec combination we need then your chances of joining will be higher.
      A little bit of info about us:
      We are a group of friends and serious raiders on EU Twisting Nether looking to recruit skilled like-minded players into our roster for Mythic Legion raids and onwards. We will offer a sociable and fun raiding environment while maintaining a strong desire for progression. Our Discord is very active and we encourage all members to chat and play together not only for raids. The guild formed late March 2016 and fully cleared 13/13 Mythic Hellfire Citadel pre nerf shortly after. We've since been improving our world ranking every tier.
      We currently raid 3 days per week on Mythic: Wednesday, Sunday and Tuesday 19:15-22:15 server time. While it is not a lot we try to make the most out of our time. We run optional heroic/normal/alt/previous tier raids during off days in which raiders are welcome to come to. Our members also play other games outside raid times together where anyone is welcome to join(LoL, Dota, HotS, Overwatch etc.).
      Our loot system for Mythic is RC Loot Council.
      What we expect from you:
      - We are a raiding guild with only a 9 hour per week schedule so you are expected to attend and be ON TIME! However we understand things can come up sometimes but please let us know.
      - Be able to speak and understand the English language and not be afraid to communicate with other members during raids.
      - Actively doing dungeons/world quests to improve your gear and artifact weapon.
      - Have a strong understanding of the current raid tier and be able to play your class to it's potential.
      - Always come to raids prepared(i.e. bringing food and potions, etc).
      - Come fully gemmed and enchanted with the correct stats for your class and spec.
      - Access to Discord and a working microphone.
      - Have a computer that can handle 20 man raiding and a good, stable internet connection.
      - Exorsus Raid Tools, Weakauras2 and RC Loot Council addons installed. We may ask you to install others.

      If you have any further questions please contact us at battletags: Vims#21684 Azkey#21565
      To apply please visit our guild website: http://asylum-tn.enjin.com/recruitment
      __________________________________________________________________________
      Requirements to be considered into current main raids:
      - 920~ ilvl
      - 52+ traits.
      - 3/9 in ToS.
      - Exceptions to the requirements may be made..
      _____________________________________________________________________________
      We're currently looking for the classes below but may consider other classes as well.
      Death Knight: Blood.
      Druid: Guardian and Balance.
      Hunter: MM/BM.
      Monk: Brewmaster.
      Rogue: Open.
      Warlock: Open.
      Any and all applications will be considered.