Stan

How Devs React to Unsubscribing?

Sign in to follow this  

3 posts in this topic

TbytCT6.jpg

Did you know that unsubscribing because of a design change is quite rare and developers don't take any actionable feedback? Ghostcrawler talks about subscribers, how the developers maintain the game fresh and more!

Greg "Ghostcrawler" Street was the Lead Systems Designer for World of Warcraft before he joined Riot Games and now he's the design director on League of Legends. Even though he no longer speaks for Blizzard, he often gives insightful responses related to game design and this time it's no different.

The subject today is how (and if) developers react to players' unsubscribing as this is the only way to share displeasure with the game. Do they make any changes? Does unsubbing have any direct impact on developers' choices?

  • The devs care why you stop playing their game, but for games like WoW and LoL the reasons can be narrowed down into two:
    • Players have less time to play the game.
    • Players stop playing, because their friends don't play anymore.
  • Dropping a game because of a design change is rare, so for developers it's hard to take actionable feedback.
  • The best way to express your concerns is to discuss an issue on the official forums to make yourself heard.
  • In games that have lasted for so many years (Age of Empires, World of Warcraft, League of Legends) there are times when you gain and lose subscribers over the course of months or years.
  • If you lose to many players the main reasons why they quit is because they are getting bored and the developers need to be bold and innovate, but at the same time, they can't change the game too much to make it confusing for returning players.

Many similarities can be seen between Legion development and Greg's statement. Legion has a lot of TBC nostalgia (Illidan, Tier 20 Sets, Kil'jaeden, Isle of Quel'danas aka the Broken Shore) and many catch-up mechanisms to help returning players (Artifact Knowledge catch-up, increase of item level drops across dungeons etc.). One of the best things of Legion is you always have something to do, players aren't getting bored that quick and patches add a lot of content. For example, Patch 7.2 is the biggest content patch ever introduced to the game. The developers are successfully avoiding content drought in this expansion.

Blizzard LogoGreg "Ghostcrawler" Street (Source)

“Unsubbing is often seen as the only ‘real’ way by players to express their displeasure in a way that affects the devs. However, one thing I’ve never known is how devs themselves react to this. Do you double down? Scrap plans? Abandon the game?”

There are a couple of different ways to answer this.

Developers do care if you stop playing their game and they want to know why. However, for games like WoW and LoL, the answers are almost always “I have less time to play now (job/school/family” and “My friends don’t play anymore.” (I’m basing that on having seen a lot of data - it’s not super open to debate.)

Dropping a game because of a specific design change (despite what you might read on forums / Reddit) is actually pretty rare. I know it happens, but if you’re stack ranking the reasons why people quit, those specific responses end up being so far down the list that it is hard for a development team to take actionable feedback. It’s really rare you see “Wow, that change we made cost us 10,000 players. Let’s revert it!” So overall, I would not advocate boycotting a game as a way to make a statement, especially if deep down you still love the game. You’re just not likely to drive change as a result.

(As an aside, the best way to drive change is still to try and clearly articulate your concerns in some public forum and hope that the developers take it seriously. I have talked to plenty of players to know how frustrating that answer might be, because at the end of the day, there just isn’t some kind of magic key that you can use to 100% guarantee that you will unlock that lock. Nevertheless, it’s still the best hope you have.)

Now, there are long term trends in the lifespan of a game. At the end of the day, I have really only worked on three games (Age of Empires, World of Warcraft, and League of Legends). All three are games that have lasted for many years, but there are macro trends of engagement, meaning sometimes you’re gaining players and sometimes you’re losing players over the course of a few months or a few years.

And it’s interesting. When you see a lot of players leave over the course of say half a year, it usually spurs two diametrically opposed views on the development team. You will get one faction of “Players are getting bored - we must be bold and innovate!” You get another faction of “We are changing the game so much that we’re losing our soul! We need to get back to basics!”

Like with so many things, it’s rarely so cut and dried that you must pick one of those directions over the other. Often the answer ends up being that you need to innovate in one direction, while still making sure the game is easy to return to, and perhaps even getting back to something familiar or even nostalgic in yet other designs.

My perception has been that the players and developers in the “We’ve changed too much!” camp tend to be those who are less engaged with the game than they once were. Losing track of change usually happens to players who once played every day and are now playing once a week or once a month. They remember being super engaged with the game and knowing everything that was going on, and so the dissonance of that no longer being the case for them is really striking, perhaps even alienating. On the other hand, players who are still really engaged are the ones most likely to need something fresh and new so that they don’t run out of stuff to do. 

Overall as a developer, I tend to advocate being bold and innovating. This depends a lot on your business model. Some games really want to create new players as a fast as they can because they can’t hold on to current players for very long. (That’s not a holistic criticism - it’s just a different model.) But a game like League tends to be more reliant on keeping current players than it is on attracting new ones. (Example: if you’re a young man in Korea, chances are you either play LoL or have decided it’s not for you. There probably isn’t a young man in Korea who has just heard of this new LoL thing and wants to try it out.) For League, we weigh most of our decisions on resonance with active players. Yes, it is entirely possible to change so much that you drive players away, but we think the risk of stagnation is greater. So for League, the answer is usually double down. YMMV

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

" The developers are successfully avoiding content drought in this expansion. "

 

So far, at least. As has been traditionally for expansion packs. The drought always starts once teams are shifted into making the next expansion:

 

During WotLK: Drought after ICC is finished.

During Cataclysm: Drought after DS is finished.

During MoP: Drought after SoO is finished.

During WoD: Drought after HFC is finished.

(expected) During Legion: Drought after N'zoth raid is finished.

 

There have been "mild" droughts as well in some expansions in between raids, but that's definitely more polished in this xpac.

But stating "The developers are successfully avoiding content drought in this expansion." 100% remains to be seen. It's more of a "until now." which they have been successful in in the past as well (With some big dips such as the selfie patch and the voice comm patch)

 

Very bold statement by the moderator :P

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Rather than simply quitting the game for good, I just take a small (1-2 Months) break from the game. When I get back I have the entire Suramar (part 2) questline & Nighthold to go through.

What many people are currently facing is to not get burned out from the constant AP/WQ farm and progression raiding. 

What mostly got me this expansion was my desire to switch mains from mage to druid, in the end I played both of them which burned me out even faster.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

Sign in to follow this  

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

  • Similar Content

    • By Stan

      What's coming in Patch 7.3.2? The official patch notes are here!
      The patch is full of bug fixes and tuning in preparation for Antorus, the Burning Throne raid. The new raid won't open immediately, but at a later time after Patch 7.3.2 goes live. The update is available for background download through the Blizzard Battle.net app, so the patch will probably arrive sooner than expected with Antorus opening later after BlizzCon.
      Blizzard (Source)
      Patch 7.3.2 includes:
      General bug fixes and minor class balance changes. Additional currency support in Battle.net. Additional tuning in preparation for Antorus, the Burning Throne raid dungeon’s release. While this minor patch adds in additional tuning for Antorus, this raid won’t be available with the release of patch 7.3.2, and will open at a later date.
      CLASSES
      Druid Balance Touch of the Moon trait redesigned.  Now heals for an increasing amount per rank, with a fixed proc chance of 20% (was a fixed healing amount with a proc chance of 5% per rank). Additionally, will not proc if the caster is above 95% health. Shaman Elemental Shamanistic Healing trait redesigned. Now heals for an increasing amount per rank, with a fixed cooldown of 30 seconds (was a fixed healing amount with a cooldown of [30 seconds minus 2 seconds] per rank). CLASS HALLS
      Added three new missions: “Scour the Surface”, “Abandoned Armory”, and “Feed the Furnaces”. All reward follower armor upgrades. A Primal Sargerite vendor has been added to the Vindicaar (Maras). ITEMS
      Convergence of Fates now reduces the remaining cooldown on one of your powerful abilities by 4 seconds (was 5 seconds), and has 10% more primary stat. A number of class set items from legacy content can now be sold to vendors. LEGION COMPANION APP
      Restored the mission-complete button on the map. Updated to support 7.3.2 patch. PLAYER VERSUS PLAYER
      The weekly quest “Something Different” should now reward the correct Brawler's Footlocker based on the active season. The Primal Victory and Glorious Tyranny Illusions are now purchasable for 10 Marks of Honor for players who earned at least one of the following Achievements: Glorious Tyranny: Duelist or Hero of the Horde/Alliance in Season 14. Duelist or Hero of the Horde/Alliance in Season 15. Primal Victory: Duelist or Hero of the Horde/Alliance in Warlords Season 1. Duelist or Hero of the Horde/Alliance in Warlords Season 2. Duelist or Hero of the Horde/Alliance in Warlords Season 3.
    • By Stan

      Redditor eke00372 uploaded a video of Argus the Unmaker from PTR. Blizzard opened Antorus for testing and a guild was able to access the raid's final boss, even though testing should have ended with Aggramar. The fight is still very unfinished. The boss can be CCed and isn't even an elite.
      After defeating Aggramar, you talk to Magni and get teleported to the Seat of the Pantheon.
      The fight takes place in an area called Seat of the Pantheon.

      Rewards
      Multiple rewards await after you defeat Legion's final boss.
      Scythe of the Unmaker (Polearm Weapon Transmog).

      Shackled Ur'zul mount drops from Mythic Argus.

      Kirin Tor Summoning Crystal is obtained when you complete Blood of a Titan.

      Insignia of the Grand Army from completing The Death of a Titan.
    • By Stan

      Everything you need to know about Legendary items in Patch 7.3.2.
      In Patch 7.3.2, Legendary items can be upgraded to item level 1,000. Blizzard also added Legendary tokens and a ring that empowers traits from the Netherlight Crucible.
      Upgrading Legendary Items
      In Patch 7.3.2 Legendary items can be upgraded to item level 1,000. The Cursed Shard quest is started by looting Cursed Shard. The item has a variety of sources. It can drop in LFR or you can get it by doing the first Random Heroic Dungeon of the day. Once you bring it to Arcanomancer Vridiel in Dalaran, you will get 10 Wakening Essences. Collect 50 Wakening Essences to get Awoken Titan Essence and upgrade a Legendary item to 1,000.
      Sources
      The Kirin Tor emissary bag did not reward any essences on PTR, but this can be random and needs further confirmation. Maybe they can only be collected from Argus faction bags. Antorus bosses drop a random amount of essences. Garothi Worldbreaker dropped 4 in LFR.
      Source Amount Status Mythic Order Hall Cache (Once a week) 20 Wakening Essences Confirmed Antorus Bosses (Each boss) 4 Wakening Essences (LFR 1st Boss) Confirmed Emissary Bag (Complete 5 World Quests) ? Wakening Essences Amount TBA First Random Heroic Dungeon (Once a day) 5 Wakening Essences Confirmed Weekly PvP Quests (2v2, 3v3, 10v10)
      ? Wakening Essences Amount TBA Cursed Shard (The Cursed Shard quest / one-time-only) 10 Wakening Essences Confirmed New Legendary Items
      Two Legendary item will be added in Patch 7.3.2. The legendary ring will be available to players that defeat Argus the Unmaker on Normal difficulty or higher and the trinket is a drop from Argus the Unmakere. The ring's affix increases the effects of Light and Shadow powers from the Netherlight Crucible by 50%. You can find more information in our Netherlight Crucible guide.
      Light Powers: Infusion of Light, Light's Embrace, Light Speed, Refractive Shell, Secure in the Light, Shocklight. Shadow Powers: Chaotic Darkness, Dark Sorrows , Master of Shadows, Murderous Intent, Shadowbind, Torment the Weak. Recently, Blizzard updated one of the Path of the Titans trinkets (Aman'Thul's Vision) to item level 1,000 and now it is a Legendary item that does not count toward the 2 Legendary cap. Path of the Titans trinkets can be upgraded with Pantheon's Blessing up to item level 1,000, so we're not sure yet, if all trinkets will be of Legendary quality after upgrading them to the maximum item level. More information can be found here.
      Item Effect Source Aman'Thul's Vision Approximately 1.4 procs per minute Your spells and abilities have a chance to grant you 6,716 Speed, Avoidance, and Leech for 12 sec.

      Aman'Thul's Grandeur
      When empowered by the Pantheon, your Intellect is increased by 6,700 for 15 sec.
      Drops from Argus the Unmaker. The item is not listed in the standard Legendary loot tables. Insignia of the Grand Army Increase the effects of Light and Shadow powers granted by the Netherlight Crucible by 50%. The Death of a Titan (Quest) - Defeat Argus the Unmaker on Normal difficulty or higher. Legendary Tokens
      Patch 7.3.2 adds new Legendary tokens to help keep gameplay on your main rewarding. Legendary tokens will start dropping when you collect ALL Legendary items on your class, in other words, on your main. Collecting ALL Legendary items designated for a single specialization won't suffice. Legendary tokens are BoA, so they can be sent to your alts (even when they are on a different realm). Use them to discover a random Legendary item.
      Class Item Effect Death Knight Bone-Wrought Coffer of the Damned Identify Legendary Demon Hunter Demonslayer's Soul-Sealed Satchel Identify Legendary Druid Living Root-Bound Cache Identify Legendary Hunter Deepwood Ranger's Quiver Identify Legendary Mage Spell-Secured Pocket of Infinite Depths Identify Legendary Monk Hand-Carved Jade Puzzlebox Identify Legendary Paladin Light-Bound Reliquary Identify Legendary Priest Coffer of Twin Faiths Identify Legendary Rogue Hollow Skeleton Key Identify Legendary Shaman Giant Elemental's Closed Stone Fist Identify Legendary Warlock Pocket Keystone to Abandoned World Identify Legendary Warrior Stalwart Champion's War Chest Identify Legendary FAQ
      You can start collecting Wakening Essences right away. You don't need to loot Cursed Shard or accept any quests first. All Legendary items that drop after Antorus opens will have item level 1,000. All crafted Legendary items will be of item level 1,000 by default when Antorus opens. Awoken Titan Essence is used to upgrade a single Legendary item to item level 1,000. You need to collect more Wakening Essences in order to upgrade additional Legendary items. Legendary tokens won't drop unless you collect ALL legendary items on your class. Blizzard mentioned in the latest Q/A that the team is closely monitoring the drop rate of Legendary items. Two legendaries are a standard for raiding, so they may increase the drop rate of the first few Legendary items on a character. At the moment, Blizzard has no plans to increase the Legendary item cap to 3. If you have any questions feel free to leave them in the comments.
    • By Stan

      Antorus will open soon and it's time to look at all the trinkets that drop inside the new raid that will go live with Patch 7.3.2.
      An overview of all trinkets from Antorus, sorted by class roles.
      Last week, we previewed all Tier 21 set bonuses and in this overview, we're exploring all trinkets and their various effects. All the data should be up-to-date as of the latest Patch 7.3.2 Build 25326.
      Tank Trinkets
      It's interesting to point out the synergy between Eye of F'harg and Eye of Shatug. Both trinkets have two effects and drop from the Hounds of Sargeras (second boss). Every 30 seconds, you can switch between those two trinkets. I imagine it to work exactly like Anathema / Benediction did back in Vanilla. Obviously, only 1 Eye of the Hounds trinket can be equipped at the same time and if your nearby tank-specialized ally bears the opposite eye, you gain either Versatility or Armor. It will be interesting to see how the switching plays out during progression.
      Name Effect Source Aggramar's Conviction Aggramar's Fortitude - Taking damage has a chance to increase your Versatility by 4,354 for 14 sec. When empowered by the Pantheon, your maximum health is increased by 1,619,543 for 15 sec, and you are healed to full health. Argus the Unmaker Apocalypse Drive Hammer-Forged - Reduce the damage of the next 10 melee attacks against you by up to 981,700 each. Lasts up to 20 sec. Suffering melee attacks reduces the cooldown of this ability by 1 sec. (2 min cooldown) Garothi Demolisher Diima's Glacial Aegis Chilling Nova - Increase your Armor by 8,357 for 12 sec, and inflict 348,257 Frost damage to enemies within 12 yds and reduce their movement speed by 70% for 12 sec. (60 sec cooldown) Asara, Mother of Night Eye of F'harg Eye of the Hounds - Grants 528 Versatility to a nearby tank-specialized ally bearing the opposite Eye.
      Swap Hounds - Transform to Eye of Shatug. (30 sec cooldown)
      F'harg Eye of Shatug Eye of the Hounds - Grants ??? Armor to a nearby tank-specialized ally bearing the opposite Eye.
      Swap Hounds - Transform to Eye of F'harg. (30 sec cooldown)
      F'harg Riftworld Codex Unstable Portals - Taking damage has a chance to open a portal to another world, either healing you, providing an absorption shield, or empowering you with shadowflame magic. Approximately 3 procs per minute. Portal Keeper Hasabel Smoldering Titanguard Bulwark of Flame - Channel a Bulwark of Flame that absorbs 18,405,746 damage for 3 sec. When the Bulwark expires you unleash 4 Waves of Flame, dealing 966,089 Fire damage to all enemies in their path. You cannot move or use abilities during Bulwark of Flame. (2 min cooldown) Aggramar Healer Trinkets
      Name Effect Source Carafe of Searing Light Refreshing Agony - Sear an enemy with holy light, inflicting 588,708 Holy damage over 18 sec. Restores 4,991 mana each time damage is dealt. (60 sec cooldown, 50 yd range)  Varimathras Eonar's Compassion Eonar's Verdant Embrace - Your healing effects have a chance to grow an Emerald Blossom nearby, which heals a random injured ally for 127,273 every 2 sec. Lasts 12 sec. When empowered by the Pantheon, your next 4 direct healing spells grant the target a shield that prevents 250,782 damage for 30 sec. Approximately 1.2 procs per minute. Argus the Unmaker Garothi Feedback Conduit Feedback Loop - Your healing effects have a chance to increase your Haste by 855 for 8 sec, stacking up to 5 times. This is more likely to occur when you heal allies who are at low health. Approximately 10 procs per minute. Garothi Worldbreaker Highfather's Machination Highfather's Timekeeping - Your healing effects have a chance to apply a charge of Highfather's Timekeeping for 60 sec, max 5 charges. When the ally falls below 50% health, Highfather's Timekeeping is consumed to instantly heal them for 216,140 health per charge. Approximately 10 procs per minute. Asara, Mother of Night Ishkar's Felshield Emitter Felshield - Place a Felshield on an ally, absorbing 2,416,492 damage for 9 sec. When the shield is consumed or expires, it explodes dealing 50% of the absorbed damage as Fire split amongst all enemies within 8 yds. (60 sec cooldown, 50 yd range) Admiral Svirax Tarratus Keystone Tarratus Keystone - Open a portal at an ally's location that releases brilliant light, restoring 1,633,314 health split amongst injured allies within 20 yds. (1.5 min cooldown, 50 yd range) Portal Keeper Hasabel Caster / Ranged DPS Trinkets
      Name Effect Source Acrid Catalyst Injector Cycle of the Legion - Your damaging spells that critically strike have a chance to increase your Haste, Mastery, or Critical Strike by 92 for 45 sec, stacking up to 5 times. When any stack reaches 5, all effects are consumed to grant you 2,183 of all three attributes for 12 sec. Approximately 9 procs per minute.  Garothi Demolisher Norgannon's Prowess Norgannon's Command - Your damaging spells have a chance to increase your Intellect by 11,483 for 12 sec. When empowered by the Pantheon, you gain 6 charges of Norgannon's Command for 15 sec. Your damaging spells expend a charge to inflict an additional 161,332 damage to the target, from a random school of magic. Argus the Unmaker Sheath of Asara Shadow Blades - Your damaging spells have a chance to conjure 6 Shadow Blades. After 2 sec, the swords begin launching foward, each dealing 56,864 Shadow damage to the first enemy in their path and increasing damage taken from your subsequent Shadow Blades by 10% for 3 sec, up to 50%. Approximately 1.7 procs per minute. Asara, the Mother of Night Terminus Signaling Beacon Legion Bombardment - Call a Legion ship to bombard the target's location for 9 sec, dealing 353,311 Fire damage to all targets within 12 yds, including the ship. (2 min cooldown, 50 yd range) Admiral Svirax Melee DPS Trinkets
      Name Effect Source Forgefiend's Fabricator Fire Mines - Your melee and ranged attacks have a chance to plant Fire Mines at the enemy's feet. Fire Mines detonate after 15 sec, inflicting 63,094 Fire damage to all enemies within 12 yds. Approximately 7 procs per minute. Garothi Demolisher Golganneth's Vitality Golganneth's Thunderous Wrath - Your damaging abilities have a chance to create a Ravaging Storm at your target's location, inflicting 524,262 Nature damage split among all enemies within 6 yds over 6 sec. When empowered by the Pantheon, your autoattacks cause an explosion of lightning dealing [ 4,785,800% of Mainhand Weapon Speed ] Nature damage to all enemies within 8 yds of the target. Lasts 15 sec. Approximately 1.8 procs per minute. Argus the Unmaker Gorshalach's Legacy Echo of Gorshalach - Your melee attacks have a chance to grant an Echo of Gorshalach. On reaching 15 applications, you lash out with a devastating combination of attacks, critically striking enemies in a 15 yd cone in front of you for 1,927,240 Fire damage. Approximately 10 procs per minute.
      Gorshalach's Legacy - Lash out with a devastating combination of attacks, critically striking enemies in a 15 yd cone in front of you for 1,927,240 Fire damage. Consumes all applications of Echo of Gorshalach.
      Aggramar Seeping Scourgewing Shadow Strike - Your melee attacks have a chance to deal 329,772 Shadow damage to the target. If there are no other enemies within 8 yds of them, this deals an additional 176,662 damage. Approximately 3 procs per minute. Varimathras Shadow-Singed Fang Flames of F'harg - Your melee and ranged abilities have a chance to increase your Strength or Agility by 4,548 for 12 sec. Approximately 3 procs per minute.
      Corruption of Shatug - Your autoattacks have a chance to increase your Critical Strike by 2,201 for 12 sec. Approximately 3 procs per minute.
      F'harg Hybrid Trinkets
      Aman'Thul's Vision's secondary "When empowered by the Pantheon..." effect increases your primary attribute, not just Intellect as indicated in the tooltip. The item ignores the maximum cap of Legendary items (2) that can equipped at once. In order for the secondary "When empowered by the Pantheon..." effects to proc, your raid members need to have four Path of the Titans trinkets equipped. The proc only works in Antorus the Burning Throne and Aman'Thul's Vision's buff serves as a wild card for the effect to activate. You can learn more about Pantheon trinkets here.
      Blizzard (Source)
      While it won't function in Mythic+ we did change the six requirement so you only need four unique buffs to trigger the Pantheon secondary proc inside Antorus. You can have any possible combination of the unique five to activate this additional proc. Aman'Thul's Vision ignores the rule as a "wildcard" filling any gap that you might be missing from the other five. Trinkets listed in this section can be used and are winnable by multiple class roles.
      Name Winnable by Effect Source Aman'Thul's Vision All class roles Aman'Thul's Grandeur Your spells and abilities have a chance to grant you 3,840 Speed, Avoidance, and Leech for 12 sec. When empowered by the Pantheon, your primary stat is increased by 3,831 for 15 sec.-  Argus the Unmaker Khaz'goroth's Courage Melee DPS & Hunters Khaz'goroth's Shaping - Your damaging attacks have a chance to make your weapon glow hot with the fire of Khaz'goroth's forge, causing your autoattacks to do [ 4,681,000% of Mainhand Weapon Speed ] additional Fire damage for 12 sec. When empowered by the Pantheon, your Critical Strike, Haste, Mastery, or Versatility is increased by 9,215 for 15 sec. Khaz'goroth always empowers your highest secondary stat. Argus the Unmaker Prototype Personnel Decimator Casters & Melee DPS Prototype Personnel Decimator - Your ranged attacks and spells have a chance to launch a Homing Missile if your target is at least 10 yds away, dealing up to 243,786 Fire damage to all enemies within 20 yds. Targets closer to the impact take more damage. Approximately 4 procs per minute. Garothi Worldbreaker Vitality Resonator Casters & Healers Reverberating Vitality - Redirect the life force of an enemy, increasing your Intellect by up to 9,705 for 15 sec. This grants more Intellect when used against targets at high health. Essence of Eonar
    • By Stan

      The upcoming Patch 7.3.2 is now available for background download in the Blizzard Battle.net app.
      Patch 7.3.2 Release Date Speculation
      So far, each Legion patch has been released 77 days apart. If Blizzard keeps to that schedule, Patch 7.3.2 would go live on November 14, 2017 in Americas or November 15, 2017 in Europe.
      Antorus the Burning Throne
      If the patch goes live as expected, Antorus the Burning Throne raid would open on the same day in Normal / Heroic difficulty with LFR's first wing & Mythic difficulty available one week later (November 21).
      The background download has an estimated size of ~850 MB.