Genji Heroes of the Storm

[Trensicourt 5]

How is Dodge still a viable talent? It negates less than regular block.

[positiv2 953]

4 hours ago, Trensicourt said:

How is Dodge still a viable talent? It negates less than regular block.

Genji's high mobility makes Dodge a decent talent. There are heroes that can add an effect to their AA, like Arthas and his trait, and dodging this is better than blocking % of damage, as you negate the bonus. If the opposing team features more heroes like this, Dodge should be a real consideration.

[Trensicourt 5]

There aren't a lot of heroes that can debuffs to their basic attacks, so it's already a rare case. In addition, it's far more likely that the dodge gets used before an attack with a debuff is used. 

[positiv2 953]

19 hours ago, Trensicourt said:

There aren't a lot of heroes that can debuffs to their basic attacks, so it's already a rare case. In addition, it's far more likely that the dodge gets used before an attack with a debuff is used. 

It's not only about debuffs that get applied to you, but also buffs that are applied to the opposing hero, such as mana refill for Arthas. If the opponent attack with a regular attack, you have time to run away thanks to the high mobility of Genji. It is indeed a somewhat rare case, but Dodge is currently marked as a Situational talent, which fits the actual usability of the talent, doesn't it? It is not the primary talent in any of the builds, so I don't see a problem with that either. Are you trying to say that it should be outright Not Recommended, rather than Situational?

[Trensicourt 5]

I perfectly understand the buffs/debuffs for AA. Even so, it is still rare. In most games, there are 1-2 heroes that uses a debuff/buff. In those cases, it's a rare situation where Genji's dodge would have prevented the debuff/buff one out of the multiple regular basic attacks. 

 

I do believe that it should be outright not recommend, since the other options give far more protection. If Genji has an issue with general AA, then Perfect Defense should provide enough value to cover the incidental bonuses of Dodge. Heck, a good Augmented Defense can soak more damage per second than dodge. 8 second charge on Dodge is only sufficient for soaking a poke. In an actual fight, an 8 second dodge would not save Genji, but the other choices will.

Edited September 11, 2017 by Trensicourt

[positiv2 953]

9 hours ago, Trensicourt said:

I perfectly understand the buffs/debuffs for AA. Even so, it is still rare. In most games, there are 1-2 heroes that uses a debuff/buff. In those cases, it's a rare situation where Genji's dodge would have prevented the debuff/buff one out of the multiple regular basic attacks. 

 

I do believe that it should be outright not recommend, since the other options give far more protection. If Genji has an issue with general AA, then Perfect Defense should provide enough value to cover the incidental bonuses of Dodge. Heck, a good Augmented Defense can soak more damage per second than dodge. 8 second charge on Dodge is only sufficient for soaking a poke. In an actual fight, an 8 second dodge would not save Genji, but the other choices will.

The problem is that Dodge, Cyber Shield and Perfect Defense should be used under different circumstances. If the opposing team has slow-hitting heroes, preferably those that can  boost their basic attack as I said before, Dodge is the way to go. Perfect Defense will not be as good because you won't deflect as many damage instances. Cyber Shield will be useless, simply because the main source of damage will be AAs.

You can check HotS Logs. Dodge is the second most picked and has the second highest pick win rate from the tier, surpassed by Perfect Defense. I would say that the stats also speak in favour of Dodge not being Not Recommended.

[Guest Vins]

On 7/20/2017 at 11:34 PM, Trensicourt said:

I did more tests on Living Weapon, the level 20 upgrade for X-strike. In my games, a 2nd X-strike changed all my games from questionable or losing to winning. I find the talent to be a must pick if the enemy has "7 heroes" and situational if the enemy has "6" or have a tendency to clump up. For example, Living Weapon against Samuro or LTV and sometimes Rexxar is practically a free X-strike in any team fight. This works in duels against them too. I would put the talent to be situational, since a 2nd X-strike every 0-24 seconds allows Genji to dictate the pace of his team fights. This is especially true if Genji manages to pull an immediate 2nd X-strike that can be overwhelming to deal with.

Edit*

I also want to point about that Strike at the Heart is a trap talent for Swift Strike build, since the damage and reliability of the talent does not match Shuriken Mastery in any way.  The fact that Genji has to hit a target at the end of his incredibly long range swift strike for mediocre damage makes it hard to use in team fights. The only times where I found the talent useful is taking down a low health target, which Shuriken Mastery does just as good and can provide a 2nd set of shurikens if Genji fails to take the target down immediately. This is much more forgiving than the low burst provided by Strike at the Heart, which also promotes dangerous play style.

Totally agreed. I'd also like to add on that the CDR on Living Weapon is EACH TIME you hit a hero with EACH STRIKE of it. So either the description text is wrong or this is a bug (but I don't think they changed it so this seems intentional). So if you have Jaina, ETC or Zarya on your team, this might be the strongest pick, for if you can hit 2 heroes with first two strikes and 3 with the third, it's an instant reset(2+2+3)*12=84, and you can easily get 2 resets with Frost Ring, Mosh, Surge and Entomb. 

And another problem with Strike at the Heart is that in order to get the bonus damage, you'll end up with being in melee range with your target, which makes it basically suicidal in team fights. And when chasing down low health targets, it's quite rare that you can get the distance between you and your target that precise. Most of the time it's much closer, so it's much more efficient to just dash in front of them and block their retreating route for your teammates to follow up or to remain a safe distance while trying to finish them off.

[Trensicourt 5]

The build I now play with is:

Level 1: Agile Dismount or Swift as the Wind

Agile Dismount is great for baiting Deflect procs and charging up Dragon Claw. You jump in out of sight, bait Deflect procs, and Swift Strike out. My games usually end with ~20-25K damage protected. Swift as the Wind is an alternative if baiting within the enemy team is too dangerous or you feel like switching Shingan for Flow Like Water resets.

Level 4: Dragon Claw

I consider this talent to be superior to Strike at the Heart; if Deflect is timed well, you'll always have Dragon Claw available. The damage is instant, higher, and splashes; it's basically impossible to miss the follow up. However, this talent is not for the light of heart as you well never get the charge up without taking risks.

Level 7: Perfect Defense

The key component to this Deflect build.

Level 10: X-Strike

Dragonblade offers lower utility and burst damage. and X-strike grants temporary invulnerability. Simply, X-strike is the better option for such a high risk build.

Level 13: Shingan

This talent has incredible utility. Shuriken Mastery may seem necessary for this talent, but Shingan is very powerful by itself and the burst damage from Dragon Claw easily makes up for Shuriken Mastery's bonus damage.

Level 16: Reflect

Another key component to this Deflect build.

Level 20: Zanshin or Living Weapon

Zanshin deals an amazing amount of burst damage to several heroes at once; however, it forces even riskier play in order to deal damage to multiple heroes. Consider this talent if the opposing has no follow burst or cc. Furthermore, if you are not gaining value from multiple heroes, but only a select few - Tracer, Tassadar, and more - it's better to pick Living Weapon.

Living Weapon is the way to go for a bait deflect build. Jump in the middle, bait Deflect procs, use Living Weapon as they collapse on you, and Swift Strike away. This is an incredibly versatile talent and allows for consistent high damaging combos every 10-30 seconds. Furthermore, you can make Living Weapon plays with multiple resets in wombo-combo style.

Edited November 12, 2017 by Trensicourt

[Guest JabbaTheButt]

I've been developing my own genji play (reached lvl 54 with him).

I've been really curious how truly effective my build is and i wish some feedback on it.

https://www.icy-veins.com/heroes/talent-calculator/genji#30.0!1321214

[Trensicourt 5]

I used to use that build but Dragon Claw becomes irrelevant later on as burst becomes more and more prevalent late game.

[ShadowerDerek 69]

The abilities and strategy section needs an update:

1) Dragonblade no longer reset Swift Strike's cooldown before acquiring The Dragon Becomes Me at lv 20.

2) Cyber Agility now has the same cooldown as Swift Strike (12s).