Vlad

Genji Heroes of the Storm

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This thread is for comments about our Genji build guide for Heroes of the Storm.

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Hey everyone,

Enjoy this Genji Build Guide. As he is not yet released and players will need several weeks to evaluate the worth of all of his talents, this guide will probably see a lot of re-polish and updates.

Still, enjoy the guide, hopefully it will give you a bit of an edge over your opponents at Genji's release.

I hope someone finds the Easter Egg I've hidden in this guide. :)

- Kendric

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On 22/04/2017 at 11:12 PM, KendricSwissh said:

I hope someone finds the Easter Egg I've hidden in this guide. :)

I need healing. 

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Having played a fair bit with Genji, I find the most effective playstyle is to Cyber-Agility into melee range, unload Shuriken while Deflecting, and Swift Strike for the kill or to safety. If there's alot of people, UNLEASH THE DRAGON! Genji is actually the first hero we've gotten in a while to have a big teamfight ultimate (X-Blade).

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Misspell probably: last comment on X-Strike talent at level 20 reads "cooldown reduction of 48 seconds when hitting the entire enemy team", 5*12=60 right?

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1 hour ago, Guest DemonRimo said:

Misspell probably: last comment on X-Strike talent at level 20 reads "cooldown reduction of 48 seconds when hitting the entire enemy team", 5*12=60 right?

Thanks for pointing this out! I passed this onto Kendric.

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I've been enjoying Genji a great deal using the Deflect build.  The only change I make is to go with Flow Like Water on 13 over Shingan.  If I get close enough to safely point blank Shurikens into a target then I'm likely doing fine already.  The extra damage is nice but 3x Shuriken (especially with Shuiken Mastery) does the job well enough.  Having less cooldown on Swift Strike though can easily be the difference between life and death (yours and your enemies).

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3 hours ago, TSRD said:

I've been enjoying Genji a great deal using the Deflect build.  The only change I make is to go with Flow Like Water on 13 over Shingan.  If I get close enough to safely point blank Shurikens into a target then I'm likely doing fine already.  The extra damage is nice but 3x Shuriken (especially with Shuiken Mastery) does the job well enough.  Having less cooldown on Swift Strike though can easily be the difference between life and death (yours and your enemies).

What about Double JumpDouble Jump? Do you ever pick the talent?

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No, but maybe I should.  Swift Strike always gets you in and out of fights which is why I like lowering its cooldown so much, Cyber Agility is good but it's a bit harder to use mid fight comparatively (at least for me).  That said, with Shuriken Mastery finished, having another charge of Agility gives you two more charges of Shurikens.  Put that way I'd probably take Double Jump over Shingan as another two uses of Shuriken is probably going to do more damage (for me) than the bonus point blank damage Shingan gives.  If you take his Anti-Ability damage talent then Double Jump would be an easy pick.

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One thing to note that this guide has gotten wrong:

Living Weapon, the level 20 talent for X-Strike, can cause a far bigger cooldown reduction than 60 seconds max. It isn't worded well in the talent description, but it actually reduces the cooldown by 12 seconds for every instance of damage dealt by X-Strike to an enemy hero. That means you can get up to 36 seconds cooldown reduction per hero hit in perfect conditions, as there are three instances of damage dealt. I for a fact have been able to use it two or three times in a row with no cooldown  quite easily on maps with tight objectives (especially Infernal Shrines) from the cooldown reduction I've had. I therefore think it should be at least changed to a Situational rather than Not Recommended.

Edited by CobraJD
Correction

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4 hours ago, CobraJD said:

One thing to note that this guide has gotten wrong:

Living Weapon, the level 20 talent for X-Strike, can cause a far bigger cooldown reduction than 60 seconds max. It isn't worded well in the talent description, but it actually reduces the cooldown by 12 seconds for every instance of damage dealt by X-Strike to an enemy hero. That means you can get up to 36 seconds cooldown reduction per hero hit in perfect conditions, as there are three instances of damage dealt. I for a fact have been able to use it two or three times in a row with no cooldown  quite easily on maps with tight objectives (especially Infernal Shrines) from the cooldown reduction I've had. I therefore think it should be at least changed to a Situational rather than Not Recommended.

I can't really test it (as it seems to be quite rare, to hit someone multiple times with the X-StrikeX-Strike in mid/higher leagues), so i would really appreciate some kind of proof. Additionally, this does not really change the ranking, because of the aforementioned problem. Also, all talents have been tested thoroughly by Kendric, a pro player, and he deemed the talent not good enough based on his experience with the talent. So, even if it lowers the cooldown multiple times from one hit, it is not consistent enough.

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it's more than possible to get a full reset by landing 3 hits on a cc'ed target in the center and 2 hits on the sides, you can test it in try mode

the information is straight up wrong, the guide hasn't been updated to reflect actual gameplay yet

 

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I am going to change the talent's description if it helps avoiding confusion. 

Yet, it does not change my perception of the talent being worse than others at Level 20. 
To go for a talent that will net you ideal value every once out of 30 or so times you cast it is not good enough to make it worth recommending. 

Of course you can claim it's good in an ideal world. If it works for you, feel free to pick it. But I've had too many games that have been decided by Zanshin. 

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I have a question: while I understand that Perfect Defense normally will provide superior protection/damage, can Augmented Guard be taken against comps with very high burst damage? I feel like it would gain lots of value if the enemy team had a Jaina and Alarak or some other form of large ability damage. Would probably still be a niche pick at best, but still might be worth considering. What are your thoughts? Thanks!

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28 minutes ago, Niteshadow said:

I have a question: while I understand that Perfect Defense normally will provide superior protection/damage, can Augmented Guard be taken against comps with very high burst damage? I feel like it would gain lots of value if the enemy team had a Jaina and Alarak or some other form of large ability damage. Would probably still be a niche pick at best, but still might be worth considering. What are your thoughts? Thanks!

If the enemy team is burst-focused, the shield after the end of DeflectDeflect will usually disappear by decaying over the 4 seconds, rather than be used to soak up damage, as the burst will have ended by then. 
Since most of burst-focused heroes rely on spells and ability damage rather than on AA damage, Cyber ShieldCyber Shield can be used to mitigate the damage in case you use DeflectDeflect too soon, putting it on cooldown.

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35 minutes ago, positiv2 said:

If the enemy team is burst-focused, the shield after the end of DeflectDeflect will usually disappear by decaying over the 4 seconds, rather than be used to soak up damage, as the burst will have ended by then. 
Since most of burst-focused heroes rely on spells and ability damage rather than on AA damage, Cyber ShieldCyber Shield can be used to mitigate the damage in case you use DeflectDeflect too soon, putting it on cooldown.

Alright. Thanks for the prompt reply!

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I've seen genji picked a lot in the hgc crucible so I decided to try him out. After many games these are my talent choices https://www.icy-veins.com/heroes/talent-calculator/genji#25.0!1121111

It's pretty much what the pros went for as well, picking the consistent damage from shuriken talents and the Dragonblade for teamfights.

Genji is a poke hero, I usually stay on the side or behind the enemy and put pressure and when I see an opportunity for Dragonblade I jump in. Dragonblade is superior to X-strike because its easier to land and after 2 slashes it surpasses x-strike in damage, the level 20 Dragonblade is also really strong, it means Dragonblade will never end. X-strike does give genji more mobility and its an easy point and click ability but Genji doesnt need more mobility, he needs more consistent damage to finish off low health enemies.

The level 20 talent, Zanshin seems underwhelming, I rarely stay in range of more than 2 heroes when using deflect, sometimes I even miss-time it and I absorb no damage.

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On 2017-5-29 at 10:18 AM, Fransoa said:

I've seen genji picked a lot in the hgc crucible so I decided to try him out. After many games these are my talent choices https://www.icy-veins.com/heroes/talent-calculator/genji#25.0!1121111

It's pretty much what the pros went for as well, picking the consistent damage from shuriken talents and the Dragonblade for teamfights.

Genji is a poke hero, I usually stay on the side or behind the enemy and put pressure and when I see an opportunity for Dragonblade I jump in. Dragonblade is superior to X-strike because its easier to land and after 2 slashes it surpasses x-strike in damage, the level 20 Dragonblade is also really strong, it means Dragonblade will never end. X-strike does give genji more mobility and its an easy point and click ability but Genji doesnt need more mobility, he needs more consistent damage to finish off low health enemies.

The level 20 talent, Zanshin seems underwhelming, I rarely stay in range of more than 2 heroes when using deflect, sometimes I even miss-time it and I absorb no damage.

That's pretty much the build I use. However I usually go with X-Strike instead of Dragon Blade, but maybe it's because I don't have much pratice with Dragon Blade and tend to get myself in tight situations. And I love ZanshinZanshin. I've scored some neat kills with it by baiting opponents.

I completely agree with you: Genji is a poke hero. He is meant to just throw Shurikens and wait for the right opportunity to finish the low health opponents (usually when their CDs are exausthed). The Shuriken build is usually more rewarding because you can catch those fleeing and deal massive damage thanks to Shuriken MasteryShuriken Mastery and ShinganShingan. I always end up performing poorly if I go with the Swift Strike build.

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On May 29, 2017 at 8:18 AM, Fransoa said:

I've seen genji picked a lot in the hgc crucible so I decided to try him out. After many games these are my talent choices https://www.icy-veins.com/heroes/talent-calculator/genji#25.0!1121111

It's pretty much what the pros went for as well, picking the consistent damage from shuriken talents and the Dragonblade for teamfights.

Genji is a poke hero, I usually stay on the side or behind the enemy and put pressure and when I see an opportunity for Dragonblade I jump in. Dragonblade is superior to X-strike because its easier to land and after 2 slashes it surpasses x-strike in damage, the level 20 Dragonblade is also really strong, it means Dragonblade will never end. X-strike does give genji more mobility and its an easy point and click ability but Genji doesnt need more mobility, he needs more consistent damage to finish off low health enemies.

The level 20 talent, Zanshin seems underwhelming, I rarely stay in range of more than 2 heroes when using deflect, sometimes I even miss-time it and I absorb no damage.

While Dragonblade may be the better ult for more experienced Genji players, I find X-Strike to be much better for people who are newer to the character or, alternatively, if the enemy team is REALLY bursty. Having that 1.25 seconds up in the air after you dive into the back line without the damage would still be worth it, just because of the amount of time you can deal damage but take none in return. You can dive in with Swift StrikeSwift Strike, throw some Shurikens, DeflectDeflect, then pop X-Strike to make sure you aren't instantly focused down. The damage can be fantastic, but the fact you can't take any damage in the air is what makes it the ult I really enjoy most of the time.

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2 hours ago, Niteshadow said:

While Dragonblade may be the better ult for more experienced Genji players, I find X-Strike to be much better for people who are newer to the character or, alternatively, if the enemy team is REALLY bursty. Having that 1.25 seconds up in the air after you dive into the back line without the damage would still be worth it, just because of the amount of time you can deal damage but take none in return. You can dive in with Swift StrikeSwift Strike, throw some Shurikens, DeflectDeflect, then pop X-Strike to make sure you aren't instantly focused down. The damage can be fantastic, but the fact you can't take any damage in the air is what makes it the ult I really enjoy most of the time.

I like to purposely dive into the enemy team with X-Strike and then pop Deflect, to bait opponents.

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Living Weapon is, by experience, a very good talent on maps with choke point or against teams that like to group up. I already managed to ult 3 times in a row with this talent, and even without a full reset, the cooldown reduction is good to take. Sharpened Stars seems less powerful, since at this stage of the game, the ennemy will likely have anough forms of damage mitigation or healing that poking will be almost ineffective. Zanshin seems underwhelming if you didn't take Reflect at lvl 16, but I didn't test it yet.

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There's some good comments from Niteshadow and Farbas on Ult and L20 talent picks..... Maybe these could also be used in expanding the discussion on contingencies under which you'd pick each respective talent? I'm guessing Dragonblade also more useful/viable with more melee opponents and thus X-Strike more so with the more important backline targets?

I'd love a bit more comment on this as I'm still newish to Genji, and I've mainly been using X-Strike and typically living weapon for the cd in better organised team fights (and just more my style with that style of assassin), but have begun to wonder if maybe I should be using dragonblade ult a bit more for sustained damage in some situations.

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4 hours ago, Kiarbitrager said:

There's some good comments from Niteshadow and Farbas on Ult and L20 talent picks..... Maybe these could also be used in expanding the discussion on contingencies under which you'd pick each respective talent?

If you mean in the guide, it's already covered - "X-Strike can act as an escape mechanism that allows Genji to dodge incoming burst damage and crowd control"

4 hours ago, Kiarbitrager said:

I'd love a bit more comment on this as I'm still newish to Genji, and I've mainly been using X-Strike and typically living weapon for the cd in better organised team fights (and just more my style with that style of assassin), but have begun to wonder if maybe I should be using dragonblade ult a bit more for sustained damage in some situations.

Knowing which talent to pick (or at least know which situation you are in) based on the team you are with and against is art, and can be learned only through experience, especially with the heroes you are playing with or against. Living WeaponLiving Weapon is unreliable and should not be picked outside of low MMR QM or bronze. ZanshinZanshin is way more reliable and acts as a AoE as well.

If you believe sustained damage might be better, go ahead and pick DragonbladeDragonblade instead. However, keep in mind that the ability is more skill reliant, so if you fail at first, do not give up.

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I did more tests on Living Weapon, the level 20 upgrade for X-strike. In my games, a 2nd X-strike changed all my games from questionable or losing to winning. I find the talent to be a must pick if the enemy has "7 heroes" and situational if the enemy has "6" or have a tendency to clump up. For example, Living Weapon against Samuro or LTV and sometimes Rexxar is practically a free X-strike in any team fight. This works in duels against them too. I would put the talent to be situational, since a 2nd X-strike every 0-24 seconds allows Genji to dictate the pace of his team fights. This is especially true if Genji manages to pull an immediate 2nd X-strike that can be overwhelming to deal with.

Edit*

I also want to point about that Strike at the Heart is a trap talent for Swift Strike build, since the damage and reliability of the talent does not match Shuriken Mastery in any way.  The fact that Genji has to hit a target at the end of his incredibly long range swift strike for mediocre damage makes it hard to use in team fights. The only times where I found the talent useful is taking down a low health target, which Shuriken Mastery does just as good and can provide a 2nd set of shurikens if Genji fails to take the target down immediately. This is much more forgiving than the low burst provided by Strike at the Heart, which also promotes dangerous play style.

Edited by Trensicourt

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