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jmaster299

Crit/Stomp/OwtP build for BM

35 posts in this topic

Posted (edited)

Eyes of the Beast has some interesting theory crafting on BM for 7.2.5, with a significantly different build, stat, and legendary priority. I'll link the article below, but it's built on stacking crit and taking Stomp and One with the Pack as talent choices and using 2pc T19, 4pc T20, and the Legendary Belt and the new Legendary Ring.


The new Ring is way down on the list here, but Eye's, with it's new build, as it at the top. Stomp and One with the Pack are also not taken as talent choices except in mass AoE situations. I don't have either of the new legendary yet, and just using Mantle and Roar the Crit/Stomp/OwtP build is simming 16K DPS higher for me. And yes I'm using the most up to date Simcraft. And that's 16K DPS higher single target. I haven't even gotten into cleave or AoE sims yet.


http://eyesofthebeast.com/2017/05/patch-7-2-5-beast-mastery-preview-builds-legendaries-and-set-bonuses/

Edited by jmaster299

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Yes, a lot of people are both reporting, and enjoying, similar experiences.

Using the crit/stomp/owtp build is still a viable option at the moment, even without the ring - it's just further enhanced by the ring.

It's mostly dependent on the shoulders at the moment, as I tried a similar setup with belt/bracers and found myself with 80k lower sims.

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26 minutes ago, Luthixx said:

Yes, a lot of people are both reporting, and enjoying, similar experiences.

Using the crit/stomp/owtp build is still a viable option at the moment, even without the ring - it's just further enhanced by the ring.

It's mostly dependent on the shoulders at the moment, as I tried a similar setup with belt/bracers and found myself with 80k lower sims.

Eyes of the Beast says the build does best with the new Chest and Ring, so not having the shoulders should hopefully not be a problem if people can get the chest. I have all BM legendaries except the neck, and the new ring and chest. So I should have the two new ones fairly quickly.

I am keeping my fingers crossed that there is no tuning pass that breaks this build since we will need to focus on a different stat priority.

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Doesn't look like there'll be any nerf to this build, just requires you to farm M NH to get high TF tier pieces for the 2set.

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Yeah, the guide from Eyes recommends the 2pc T19, 4pc T20, Legendary Ring and Belt. I need to go update my original post, as I thought they were recommending the chest for some reason. It seems to be a 3rd option if you don't have the Belt or new Ring. I don't see them recommending the Shoulders at all.

Neither of them have Crit, but I have a 925+Socket T19 Chest and 910 T19 Cloak to keep as my 2pc. So those should serve me well as my 2pc T19.

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i'm curious, with this build what should crit be at? and I have the M 2 set T19, should I break the current four set for higher gear? currently I do have the shoulders and the belt

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Posted (edited)

Well the crit+OWTP build would increase the uptime of the shoulders buff, so it makes some sense.

However, when I see a simulation showing a 2% difference between two builds I don't really care that much. Not worth switching gear unless you already have higher level crit items in your bank just waiting for the patch.

Edited by Khallid

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34 minutes ago, Khallid said:

Well the crit+OWTP build would increase the uptime of the shoulders buff, so it makes some sense.

However, when I see a simulation showing a 2% difference between two builds I don't really care that much. Not worth switching gear unless you already have higher level crit items in your bank just waiting for the patch.

That's just it, even without stacking Crit gear, it's already simming higher. My gear is far from perfect for the old Master/Haste priority, and I have 28% Crit already. So it shouldn't require significant gear switching to be viable. It will require we focus on different gear to widen the gap with the other spec going forward, but it should offer better results for a lot of people right away.

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10 hours ago, Luthixx said:

Yes, a lot of people are both reporting, and enjoying, similar experiences.

Using the crit/stomp/owtp build is still a viable option at the moment, even without the ring - it's just further enhanced by the ring.

It's mostly dependent on the shoulders at the moment, as I tried a similar setup with belt/bracers and found myself with 80k lower sims.

I actually sim 10k lower with ring and crit, owtp, stomp build. As opposed to shoulder/belt same build.

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2 minutes ago, Keszey said:

I actually sim 10k lower with ring and crit, owtp, stomp build. As opposed to shoulder/belt same build.

Apex predator ring of the huntmaster ring? Because Apex predator ring is still trash - new ring will be great if you want to run the stomp/OWTP build.

I'm running belt/bracers on stomp build and it works great, shoulders are a good utility item atm and give almost 100% uptime using OWTP.

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Yes, I mean the SoTH Ring. Disappointing to say the least. Currently running shoulders/belt. With an 880 arcano and a 900 CoF. Tried running bracers with 905 shoulders simmed 2k higher.  The SoTH sims about 8k lower than both give or take.

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After a few tests and working around my gear I do sim higher and hit harder on the dummy (currently at 31% crit), even higher than before the patch dropped, so I'll be trying this for a while. My guess is that the nerf to the 4-piece Tier 19 bonus ended up being very big for the Bestial Fury build, and the Crit+OWTP build raises the uptime of Bestial Wrath enough to compensate.

Will need to revisit the talents when the next tier set drops. As the Eyes of Beast said, it should work well with 3 set bonuses. It may come down to legendaries at that point, since wearing 3 set bonuses limits which legendaries can be equipped. Although it sucks that whatever I have for my 2-piece tier 19 is going to stagnate.

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5 hours ago, Khallid said:

After a few tests and working around my gear I do sim higher and hit harder on the dummy (currently at 31% crit), even higher than before the patch dropped, so I'll be trying this for a while. My guess is that the nerf to the 4-piece Tier 19 bonus ended up being very big for the Bestial Fury build, and the Crit+OWTP build raises the uptime of Bestial Wrath enough to compensate.

Will need to revisit the talents when the next tier set drops. As the Eyes of Beast said, it should work well with 3 set bonuses. It may come down to legendaries at that point, since wearing 3 set bonuses limits which legendaries can be equipped. Although it sucks that whatever I have for my 2-piece tier 19 is going to stagnate.

Well said; the DF build got hammered by the nerf to BW uptime, so for the mean time the stomp build is far more viable.

Going into ToS you'll want to keep 2pc t19 as long as you can, but if you get the new legendary ring you'll definitely want to be playing the stomp build, the dps is incredible. But this also changes depending on what legendaries you have - if you have shoulders or the new chest, then you'll pretty much be left to 4pc T20 - the chest and shoulders are very strong and not something you'd want to pass up on.

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Ah I see what happened. I thought the tier 19 was the only nerf there, but the base cooldown reduction of Dire Beast dropped from 15 seconds to 12 seconds as well.

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7 minutes ago, Khallid said:

Ah I see what happened. I thought the tier 19 was the only nerf there, but the base cooldown reduction of Dire Beast dropped from 15 seconds to 12 seconds as well.

Yeah, our 4-set has essentially been nullified. But I think this sets it up well for coming ToS as the T20 set bonuses are designed around less frequent, but far more powerful BW burst phases.

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On 6/13/2017 at 7:47 PM, Luthixx said:

Yes, a lot of people are both reporting, and enjoying, similar experiences.

Using the crit/stomp/owtp build is still a viable option at the moment, even without the ring - it's just further enhanced by the ring.

It's mostly dependent on the shoulders at the moment, as I tried a similar setup with belt/bracers and found myself with 80k lower sims.

You wouldn't happen to know how to sim with two talents active in the same row. My fear is that Simulationcraft is not taking into account the damage of Dire Frenzy with owtp selected.

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47 minutes ago, Keszey said:

You wouldn't happen to know how to sim with two talents active in the same row. My fear is that Simulationcraft is not taking into account the damage of Dire Frenzy with owtp selected.

I think you'll just have to wait for simcraft to be updated, since currently it's not giving an accurate reflection of our current dps.

If you're running the DF build with Dire Frenzy you might be able to net quite good results, but the ring is better suited to the stomp build.

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  1. 16 minutes ago, Luthixx said:

    I think you'll just have to wait for simcraft to be updated, since currently it's not giving an accurate reflection of our current dps.

    If you're running the DF build with Dire Frenzy you might be able to net quite good results, but the ring is better suited to the stomp build.

    That's what I was referring to. I've switched to the crit stomp owtp build and am currently using the ring. I've gotten my dps to the same it was with the DF build with shoulders and belt. Now I'm wearing the belt and the new ring with crit/stomp build. I can only imagine the dps it adds with not being taken into account with the current SimulationCraft. Thank you for answering.

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Posted (edited)

On 2017-06-14 at 2:56 AM, jmaster299 said:


Neither of them have Crit, but I have a 925+Socket T19 Chest and 910 T19 Cloak to keep as my 2pc. So those should serve me well as my 2pc T19.

Don't go with the chest terrible stats and t20 set is Bis stats. Aim for getting t19 legs and somthing like hands or cloak because the t20 ones are pretty meh ( t20 Cloak is haste/crit, t20 hands is crit/vers and t20 legs is  awful stats while t19 legs is bis stats with STOMP/OWTP build)

really infuriating to see people play the biggest stat piece with almost worst in slot stats.

Edited by Najjic

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2 hours ago, Najjic said:

Don't go with the chest terrible stats and t20 set is Bis stats. Aim for getting t19 legs and somthing like hands or cloak because the t20 ones are pretty meh ( t20 Cloak is haste/crit, t20 hands is crit/vers and t20 legs is  awful stats while t19 legs is bis stats with STOMP/OWTP build)

really infuriating to see people play the biggest stat piece with almost worst in slot stats.

If you're planning on running 2pc T19 and 4pc T20 you want your T19 pieces to be shoulders and legs - they're the ones that have crit on them compared to T20. The other stat may not be as nice, but that's a guaranteed way to hit 35% crit.

If you're getting your crit elsewhere, then yes, cape/gloves is the best option.

Going into ToS though, you want to hold onto your highest ilvl items - agi is the biggest scaling factor for BM and a 925 chest vs a 890 legs would be a lot better. 

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2 hours ago, Luthixx said:

If you're planning on running 2pc T19 and 4pc T20 you want your T19 pieces to be shoulders and legs - they're the ones that have crit on them compared to T20. The other stat may not be as nice, but that's a guaranteed way to hit 35% crit.

If you're getting your crit elsewhere, then yes, cape/gloves is the best option.

Going into ToS though, you want to hold onto your highest ilvl items - agi is the biggest scaling factor for BM and a 925 chest vs a 890 legs would be a lot better. 

I don't agree entirely. You should want to keep the lowest-budget items of tier 19 because their ilvl is going to stagnate anyway. The 925 chest is such a weird edge case because it's very high ilvl but also has versatility so it's a bad piece to begin with. Tomb of Sargeras will drop 925 replacements easily, because it's set 30 ilvls higher than Nighthold. By the time you get the 4-piece tier 20, a single 925 piece will no longer be impressive. The cape is the lowest budget item of all gear, so it should be the best one to keep under most situations. To complete the 2-piece bonus it will likely depend on your specific case, but gloves seems like the best one to take if they're all equal. Helm, legs and chest should be kept as high ilvl as possible, so in most cases you should go with tier 20 for those.

There are always some outliers where a crazy titanforged item might be worth wearing (at least for a while), but you should expect all your items to increase ilvl drastically in Tomb. You might also randomly get a 955 titanforged cape and decide that's better now, so you would need to switch stuff around. There are also outliers in the opposite side. I probably wouldn't keep the cape if it was 875, but then at that point it might not be worth keeping any of tier 19.

Just keep all your tier 19 in the bank and don't get rid of it yet. There's no definitive piece that is best under all situations.

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28 minutes ago, Khallid said:

I don't agree entirely. You should want to keep the lowest-budget items of tier 19 because their ilvl is going to stagnate anyway. The 925 chest is such a weird edge case because it's very high ilvl but also has versatility so it's a bad piece to begin with. Tomb of Sargeras will drop 925 replacements easily, because it's set 30 ilvls higher than Nighthold. By the time you get the 4-piece tier 20, a single 925 piece will no longer be impressive. The cape is the lowest budget item of all gear, so it should be the best one to keep under most situations. To complete the 2-piece bonus it will likely depend on your specific case, but gloves seems like the best one to take if they're all equal. Helm, legs and chest should be kept as high ilvl as possible, so in most cases you should go with tier 20 for those.

There are always some outliers where a crazy titanforged item might be worth wearing (at least for a while), but you should expect all your items to increase ilvl drastically in Tomb. You might also randomly get a 955 titanforged cape and decide that's better now, so you would need to switch stuff around. There are also outliers in the opposite side. I probably wouldn't keep the cape if it was 875, but then at that point it might not be worth keeping any of tier 19.

Just keep all your tier 19 in the bank and don't get rid of it yet. There's no definitive piece that is best under all situations.

My comment was more so directed at having the right stat balance going into ToS for normal and start of heroic, but by the time you're into mythics, unless you have perfect stats on the items they'll get replaced quite quickly. 

BM has realistcally always been about agi > everything else, so hold on to your highest ilvl pieces for as long as you can.

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3 hours ago, Khallid said:

I don't agree entirely. You should want to keep the lowest-budget items of tier 19 because their ilvl is going to stagnate anyway. The 925 chest is such a weird edge case because it's very high ilvl but also has versatility so it's a bad piece to begin with. Tomb of Sargeras will drop 925 replacements easily, because it's set 30 ilvls higher than Nighthold. By the time you get the 4-piece tier 20, a single 925 piece will no longer be impressive. The cape is the lowest budget item of all gear, so it should be the best one to keep under most situations. To complete the 2-piece bonus it will likely depend on your specific case, but gloves seems like the best one to take if they're all equal. Helm, legs and chest should be kept as high ilvl as possible, so in most cases you should go with tier 20 for those.

There are always some outliers where a crazy titanforged item might be worth wearing (at least for a while), but you should expect all your items to increase ilvl drastically in Tomb. You might also randomly get a 955 titanforged cape and decide that's better now, so you would need to switch stuff around. There are also outliers in the opposite side. I probably wouldn't keep the cape if it was 875, but then at that point it might not be worth keeping any of tier 19.

Just keep all your tier 19 in the bank and don't get rid of it yet. There's no definitive piece that is best under all situations.

I hold on to basically everything, so I can swap out exactly which two pieces of T19 I use. But stat budget outweighs optimal stats when there is a 30 ilvl difference a lot of time. Keeping my 925, with a socket, chest will still likely be the biggest DPS increase of all my T19 pieces. Regardless of the stats it has on it. Mainly because, with the exception of my 910 cloak, all my other T19 is 895.

I do sim and obtain my stat weights, and will sim different gear combinations against each other to see what's better. But I can only make a plan based on what I have now. I have no idea what pieces of T20 I will get, and when.

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Posted (edited)

Hi guys. I agree that the new ring is a must have. But i would like to think about the second one.
 

Roar of the seven lions give Haste and Mastery. So stats are bad. According to stats and passiv, i see 2 interresting possibilities:
- Qa'Pla Eredun War Order that give mastery and crit, and reduce by 3 seconds kill command on each proc of Dire Beast

- Sephu'z Secret, particulary for the stats (2671 crit, 1068 haste), passiv is proc haste but not really good.

Couldn't be good to swap the waist for one of them?

And about trinket: There is the Nightborne's Hunting Horn (for my 890 version, i have 1879 agility and 1137 critical). With Entwined Elemental Foci (agi, + very often proc on crit), isn't they the best trinket?

Have a nice day guys.

Edited by Brice2010

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5 hours ago, Brice2010 said:

Hi guys. I agree that the new ring is a must have. But i would like to think about the second one.
 

Roar of the seven lions give Haste and Mastery. So stats are bad. According to stats and passiv, i see 2 interresting possibilities:
- Qa'Pla Eredun War Order that give mastery and crit, and reduce by 3 seconds kill command on each proc of Dire Beast

- Sephu'z Secret, particulary for the stats (2671 crit, 1068 haste), passiv is proc haste but not really good.

Couldn't be good to swap the waist for one of them?

And about trinket: There is the Nightborne's Hunting Horn (for my 890 version, i have 1879 agility and 1137 critical). With Entwined Elemental Foci (agi, + very often proc on crit), isn't they the best trinket?

Have a nice day guys.

Well, realistically this build is only viable until you get T20 set bonuses, so don't stress too much. But yes, qa'pla is a viable alternative again, although the belt is still stronger. However, if you're working towards getting 35% crit, then maybe swap out to one of those legendaries if you're well behind on crit.

EEF is still a mediocre at best trinket because it's procs are highly unreliable, but still a viable option for the moment.

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