Feral Druid for many years and I suck

[Kitarakae 2]

I have a question for all of you druids out there - my main is a feral druid - night elf 

 

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/saurfang/Kitarakae/simple

 

I have an ilvl of 514, I have been following icy veins suggestions on maximising my dps rotation, glyphs, talents etc .... and I still really suck.  I am lucky unbuffed if I get 20k and buffed 40 to 50k in raids.  I use two rotations I swap between the two depending on what is required - mangle for frontal assault (plus the usual icy veins rotation) and for attacks from behind rip (plus the usual icy veins rotation).

 

The first boss in the Seige of Ogrimmar really hit it home to me that maybe I am most definitely doing something wrong since the only aoe attack is swipe to get the corrupt globs down and that isn't getting them down fast enough.  I use droodfocus addon which is a great help - Ask Mr Robot and wow reforger for any reforging I might require but I am totally confused as to whether or not I should be reforging mastery, expertise, crit, hit, haste etc ... since I finally got the trinket rune of re-origination.  

 

Please help - I know that ferals have had major changes and nerfs over the years but this is getting beyond annoying that I can't seem to get nice dps to make a difference in any raid, dungeon or rare spawn.

[Tarazet 144]

You're right to feel that you must be doing something wrong. I leveled a Night Elf Druid to 90 during Pandaria after maining a Troll for a while, and I was doing 40-50k DPS as a Feral in single target fights with nothing but quest greens and 85-89 dungeon blues. I doubt very much that you would be doing that poorly in 500+ if you were following the priority (it's not really a rotation) properly.

 

The first thing is keeping Savage Roar up religiously, all the time, and above all else, but that's just the basic test of whether a feral has the potential to put out high numbers. To achieve great feral DPS, it takes careful setup. You need to make sure that when you apply your Rip, Rake and Thrash, they are as potent as you can make them. That means stacking Savage Roar, Tiger's Fury, and Dream of Cenarius together with those bleeds as often as you possibly can, which in turn means being efficient with spending Combo Points so that you can use your free Healing Touches more often. It was easier in 5.3 with Nature's Swiftness, and that is now gone, but you still should learn the DoC playstyle; it is a DPS gain. If you're playing carefully and thoughtfully, your largest sources of damage should normally be Rake, Rip and melee attacks. In heavy AoE situations Thrash will be your largest source of damage - on Tortos I did 280k by Thrashing the bats, without a Rune.  It is not the kind of spec where your DPS increases by just pushing your buttons faster or tuning your gear a little bit. It takes good timing, awareness and preparation.

 

As for stat priority, worry about that when you have the basics down. A raid finder Rune isn't going to proc frequently enough to make a huge difference, so you're still better off sticking with the Mastery build unless you get the trinket from normal ToT - which won't happen until you learn to play your class to the maximum.

 

As for AoE, the best thing you can do is focus down one target until you get 5 CP, use Savage Roar/Rip, Healing Touch, and then Tiger's Fury + Thrash. Thrash benefits from your Mastery, so it is your single best tool for dealing with large packs of enemies. If you prefer to stick with HotW, then keep up Savage Roar, Tiger's Fury + Thrash, and Swipe whenever you can while making sure you continue to autoattack one of the targets.

 

I'm currently taking a break from WoW, but I'll be happy to help you with any additional questions you've got.

 

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/ghostlands/Tarazet/advanced - armory

http://worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-ty7vbxmpnomw04ow/sum/damageDone/ - I normally tank for this group. This is the only log I have ever recorded as a Feral..

Edited September 17, 2013 by Tarazet

[Kitarakae 2]

Thanks for the reply - I religiously keep savage roar, stack tiger's fury and proc Dream of Cenarius.  That is the first thing I do before a fight.  Hence why I use Droodfocus so it reminds me to keep these up by being well timed.  I was not though, applying rip, rake or thrash (my setup I went as I said before if I was in front of target, mangle, rip,rake, ferocious bite - keeping the above up, then swapping rip and mangle for external attacks - that is definitely my problem) - I am not using thrash at all.  I also think my problem is that I am not maxing my playability for this class because I haven't been paying much attention to the way I play.  Druids are totally different from my other toons and their priorities.

 

So you are 100% correct that I am doing something wrong and you definitely hit the nail on the head.  I will stick with the mastery build - and ignore Ask Mr Robot's tendency at present to want to reforge everything to critical strike.  

 

Once again, thanks for the reply, you have eased my mind somewhat - at least I was doing something right and not completely screwing up! I enjoy playing a feral - but will certainly take your advice seriously and pay more attention to how I play her re: the priority of attacks.  I also rechecked my dps figures using skada last night - single fight target dps was 39k no buffs, raid buffed 70k but thats average (some fights better than others) and not weighted for any individual fight but still pretty crap.

 

I hope that this post of yours helps other ferals out! :)

 

Enjoy your break.  I appreciate the time it must have taken to write the post.  Best wishes for your future endeavors!  

[Tarazet 144]

If you want it to give you proper reforges based on the non-Rune priority, you can go to the Edit Weights option and tell it to ignore the Rune of Reorigination. If you do want to play around with optimizing for the Rune, then choose the "Mastery proc" option. By the way, Icy-Veins will tell you to use Thrash only when you get an Omen of Clarity proc, because it is expensive. I think it's still worth spending a DoC charge on Thrash.

 

Currently you are running with Heart of the Wild as your T6 talent. I recommend changing to Dream of Cenarius. It's fairly close on single-target fights, but in AoE situations DoC is just vastly better.

[Kitarakae 2]

Yah I did that as a test setup late last night to see if it would help today but after your post I think I will go back to proccing DoC.

[Darkkonan 13]

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/borean-tundra/Darksteer/advanced

 

Personally, since they removed Nature's swiftness which allowed us to use DoC when convenient, I've dropped DoC and went with Heart of the Wild with much more success.  Even if DoC looks very slightly better in Sims, the actual practice in real fights makes it cumbersome and hardly worth it considering the amount of movement and target switching.  Since the change my dps has picked up on average about 8k.

 

Also... last time I checked, when using Askmrrobot, the default settings still has Mastery as a higher stat weight over Crit, but they are very close since Crits are combo builders for us,... and does not include a build for the Rune trink, unless you check the little box to make is so.  I think ignoring Askmrrobot is a bad idea.  The only change I've made from the default setting is adding a 50% cap to Crit.

 

As far as AoE on the first boss in SoO... remember you can't dps the blue globs.  So unless you are in swipe range of 4 or more black globs, your dps will not be good trying to AoE them... just grab one of the Black Globs and single target it down.... The Blue Globs are for healing, which you can still do by the way, as the number of Blue over Black increases over the length of the fight.  This fight, along with many others in this expansion, is not as friendly to melee as it is to ranged, so don't get discouraged.  In general, however, when doing AoE I just pop TF, then Thrash for bleeds and spam Swipe till I need to refresh the bleed from Thrash or another TF pop.  Pretty simple.

 

Trying to pull off an over-complicated priority rotation, in my opinion, is the biggest dps loss for Feral Drood's right now.  At an item level of 512 currently I am consistently pulling 115-120k on boss fights, and more often than not pulling well over 200k... with spikes above 700k on big AoE pulls.  Probably not the best, but much better than when I was trying the DoC build in 5.4, and I get no complaints.

 

I do agree that re-applying bleeds after Tiger's Fury, when possible with the right combo points, is pretty key to keeping the numbers up.  Even if I have just applied a new rip with 5cp, if my TF CD is up I will hit it and get to 5CP as as fast as i can and re-apply.  Remember that TF only lasts 6 seconds, even though the CD is 30secs.  I use the addon OmniCC so I can easily keep track of the CD... so I know if I have 24 seconds or more on the CD I can still refresh Bleeds and take advantage of the buff.

 

Speaking of addons, I prefer CatRotaionHelper over Droodfocus.  I do like the amount of information that Droodfocus displays, however when Im in the heat of battle all I really want to know is how many combo points I have on a target, and what my CD's are.  CatRotationHelper does not suggest the next button to push, but gives a nice clean little HuD.  Both work well with OmniCC... and it's personal preference.

 

Personally I never use Thrash on single targets unless I find myself with everything on CD and no other Bleeds to re-up, rather than just standing there.  Feels like it yields better dps than Ferocious Bite when boss is above 25% health.  However, if I find myself wanting to get combo points quicker, I will use Ferocious Bite, even below 50 energy because it is an available finisher which when used with 5 combo points yields immediate 20 energy when using Soul of the Forest talent.  So it's a little situational for me.

 

 Also... unless you easily find yourself behind a boss for periods of time.. I find I get better results with just using Mangle over Shred.  True, Shred does yield slightly better numbers, when you can stand in one place behind a boss, but it uses more resources and is therefore slower in building combo points.. especially if your occasionally missing because of movement.  So when your trying to hit 5 combo points before a Bleed falls off.. Mangle is your friend.

 

In the end, what one person does may not work for you.. Find your play style that gives you the best results.  If your excellent at positioning and are spot on with a more complex rotation then go for it.  I won't begin to tell you that how I play is the best... just offering another point of view, but also open to suggestions.  The Feral rotation, in my opinion, is one of the most difficult in the game.. and we need to stick together and help each other out so we don't get sigh's when we join a group.  Good Luck

[Kitarakae 2]

Thanks for your reply Darkkonan I do appreciate it.  I do agree with you that DoC is really irritating to proc now - and from your experience if it only yields a smaller dps rate it may be worth switching to HoW - which is why I wanted to test Heart of the Wild.  I will test today to see how it goes and let the forum know.  My dps though with the suggestions already made is now very respectable on single targets - I have tried a heroic dungeon or three to practice the newer rotation - but I do prefer mangle over shred for frontal attacks on targets (sometimes it is difficult to get behind a boss).  I have two priority setups for that case and switch between them when the situation arises. 

 

I agree though that thrash is a waste of energy on single targets - but have also found that is dependent on the target more than anything else.  Some of those level 92 elites on the Timeless Isle hit like trucks.  Also, as an aside, in flexi SoO,  I did target the corrupt blobs not the healing ones but because of my inability to play my class to its maximum potential, is why I posted here as I do understand the feeling of the inward cringes from raid groups as a feral druid enters.  This is why I felt it so important to post this up - kind of like a wow group therapy session - Hi my name is Kit and I suck at my class ....  I too also want to assist any feral druid out there who is having problems as it is one of the hardest (if not the hardest) class to play effectively - I like challenges but I also do take advice on this seriously.

 

I am hoping that other ferals do join this forum as the more perspectives that I can personally get, the better I feel.  I am re-finding my feet again - and knowing that there will always be changes - will more than likely be doing so again.

 

Once again, thankyou for your reply I really do appreciate it.  I will let the forum know how HoW goes rather than DoC and keep you all updated on how I am faring.

[Darkkonan 13]

Thanks Kit...

 

It's true it's not an easy class to play... A melee class who has to move when changing targets, but whose main source of damage comes from dots that we can't apply till several seconds into a rotation... Where is the burst to compensate Blizz?  At any rate, this is actually an alt of mine, my main being a Prot Pally tank for our team.  So this guy sees more action on the Alt runs, and now sometimes in Flex when I share tanking duties.  We do have a few druids in our guild, but Feral spec is pretty sparse.  I think that's why I probably took up the cause... and I have no regrets.  I think Droods are just a class you can't help but just really like, and once you go feral, it's hard to let go of.  Unlike my Prot spec, however, it does seem hard to find good info. and advice about the spec.  Icyveins does a wonderful job with the guides, but starting information posts like this is where you find the really good stuff.  So again, lets keep it rockin... and change that "DK tank from Wrath" look on peeps faces when we show up in a group.  No offence DK's...  :)

[Tarazet 144]

My preference for DoC, even with the removal of NS, is because of situations where you have large packs and need to burst them down. This seems to happen in several encounters in SoO and it's always useful for efficiency on trash pulls as well. DoC is why I able to rank on Tortos having never done the fight before as a DD - those supercharged Thrashes really hurt a lot!

[Kitarakae 2]

I have done a bit of an experiment - I procced DoC for a few days and then changed to HoW.  DoC is really irritating to proc without Natures Swiftness, particularly in LF groups -  and while it does a lot of damage on mobs with those thrashes, I found it really annoying.  I then switched to HoW for a few days and while my dps went down a little (not much mind you) from DoC I did find it much easier to use.  I think with the proccing DoC or utilising HoW is a personal preference either/or seems to do the job really effectively.  However, if they bought back natures swiftness - I would personally go back to proccing DoC.  Now though, for ease of use, I am sticking to HoW.  I have also changed my rotation so mangle plays a bigger role with a swap to shred when I can safely get behind a target.  My dps is now very respectable thanks to all those who posted although I do suffer the dps spikes but overall I am happy with how I am going and where my feral is heading :).  Thanks again and keep posting! :)

[saief 0]

I started a druid saturday and just finished leveling and basic gear 496 everywhere with a 450 weapon today (wednesday night). 

 

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/mannoroth/Saief/simple

 

Im glad too read some of the comments here, ill try to adjust my playstyle too. I am an eternal unsatisfied on my class. I was playing a combat rogue with great success, pulling awesome dps and burst then switched ret paladin to get more utilities/heal to help my wife and then again, pulling nice dps with the same gear and enchant that of my druid (495). Now ive tried a bit the feral and im so far down the dps list its incredible.

 

I mean, with the pally i just run in , grab every mob and start aoe-ing like crazy and heal at the same time,i feel invicible. I do feel very fragile and weak with the cat atm by having problem surviving elites on the island, pulling huge pack of mobs or getting a kill on a player.

 

But i do feel like the cat is an hybrid between my pally and my rogue and its what drove me to level one. 

 

Perhaps ill just have to live with the fact that every fast fight ill always be bottom. I mean, i dont do ton of damage while opening and setting myself up.

 

Im gonna try some suggestion i saw here and see how it improve my dps.

 

I would like to know one thing though. 

 

Can someone explain to me (english is not my mother tongue) how Heart of the wild work as a cat, i dont really understand the description really well and how come you find it superior to DoC in term of damage gain? is it just because of the 6% agi gain?

[Kitarakae 2]

Having been a feral cat since BC days (that's a long time for me to try to understand and adjust play style) and having so many changes done to ferals and druids in general (its a wonder there are a few of us still around) I can understand your frustration.  Why I use HoW is because it is more easily proccable than DoC - DoC uses healing touch to proc.  If you proc it before a raid and the raid goes according to plan you can pull off some great moves.  If you need to proc it again it transforms you back into a nelf or wargen which is not helpful in the midst of battle.  It also benefitted greatly from natures swiftness which now has been removed from the druid talent pool and replaced with ysera's dream. 

 

How heart of the wild works - firstly its easier to use now than DoC with slightly less dps - other than it being the longest spell explanation in the game how it works is this:  If you are in feral druid spec you get the benefits of the spell:

 

Increases Stamina, Agility, and Intellect by 6% at all times.  When activated, increases all healing done and dramatically improves the Druid's ability to perform roles outside of their normal specialization for 45 sec. Grants the following benefits based on current specialization:

 

Feral Druid

plus the buff benefits underneath the guardian, restoration and balance as well. Therefore:

 

Guardian buff is: Agility, Expertise, Hit Chance, and armour bonuses increased, Vengeance granted, chance to be hit by melee critical strikes reduced.

 

Restoration buff is: Mana cost of all healing spells reduced by 100%.

 

Balance buff is: Spell Damage and Hit Chance increased.  Mana cost of all damage spells reduced by 100%.

Mind you this is how I read it and I may be wrong but having looked at the way it works on target dummies I believe this to be accurate.  I hope this is helpful and less confusing.

[Tarazet 144]

Heart of the Wild is mainly taken for the Agility buff. Using it to nuke Wrath is not currently a DPS gain. It is possible to use the active HotW effect for temporary hybrid capability (tanking, throwing powerful Rejuvenations on people in Cat Form, or using a powerful Tranquility), but I don't recommend doing so routinely - only if the raid leader decides it will make the kill easier.

 

DoC is still good, but no longer the runaway best choice due to the removal of Nature's Swiftness (which allowed another use of the damage boost once per minute). It does allow you to take better advantage of occasions when RoR or other trinket procs come up at just the right time.

[saief 0]

Thanks for the answer! 

 

I was wondering too the difference in dps between 

 

soul of the forest and incarnation.

 

I do use incarnation at the moment since im on a pvp server and i love to be able to vanish. In dungeon or lfr i tend to use it on cooldown with berserk to spam ravage (while applying rake and rip if needed) but someone said that Soul of the forest is a massive dps gain over it.

[Tarazet 144]

Thanks for the answer! 

 

I was wondering too the difference in dps between 

 

soul of the forest and incarnation.

 

I do use incarnation at the moment since im on a pvp server and i love to be able to vanish. In dungeon or lfr i tend to use it on cooldown with berserk to spam ravage (while applying rake and rip if needed) but someone said that Soul of the forest is a massive dps gain over it.

 

Soul of the Forest is your only choice in PvE content that has you spending Combo Points steadily.

[Paloro 39]

Incarnation is really only viable in PvP as the DPE of Ravage! makes it not worth taking.  On a multi-target fight, SotF will be your choice of talent and on single-target, the highest output comes from FoN.

[Tarazet 144]

Incarnation is really only viable in PvP as the DPE of Ravage! makes it not worth taking.  On a multi-target fight, SotF will be your choice of talent and on single-target, the highest output comes from FoN.

 

FoN, no kidding.. it has kind of a brutal effect on the rotation since you are constantly energy starved, especially if you are running a high-Mastery and low-Haste build, but I suppose numbers are numbers. I take it that using FoN would also favor taking HotW.

Edited October 10, 2013 by Tarazet

[Paloro 39]

FoN, no kidding.. it has kind of a brutal effect on the rotation since you are constantly energy starved, especially if you are running a high-Mastery and low-Haste build, but I suppose numbers are numbers. I take it that using FoN would also favor taking HotW.

 

I've actually never used HotW + FoN.  If it is truly single target I will use DoC + FoN, but I am also at an itlvl where the energy loss is recuperated by either using AoC or 4p T16.

[saief 0]

i gotta say i miss a bit incarnation for vanish in pve but changing it+DoC atm for me was a great dps boost. I ended up choosing HotW and FoN.

 

Force of nature : its really fun to use and its off global cooldown and these trees adjust with your stats. The 40yd range + insta root on summon is great for pvp too and they can off tank for me. My only problem with them is weak aura see their rake as mine too so sometime my rake fall and i dont notice right off the bat. 

 

Soul of the forest was a small dps boost but mostly made the rotation just a tad smoother, lessening the "OMG IM STARVED" aspect of the kitty.

 

Since i was not using DoC at all but i had it as a talent HotW is already proven a dps upgrade + i saved the day twice yesterday by using it and healing my ass off to save people, which worked and made me look like a hero :3 

 

So thanks for everyone participating in that post, my dps is looking way better now. I still only have a 450 ilevel weapon, i dont know for the cat how much it play on the dps but right now i can get up to 80k dps (in 495 ilevel) to 100k if its tank and spank. 

 

I still have some issues like dropping rip,rake or savage roar so i need to work on my uptime but so far there is a huge improvement from 30k-40k to 80k

[Tarazet 144]

OUCH at the 450 weapon.. check with a BS to see if you can get something better made, you should see dramatically better numbers with a nicer weapon.

[saief 0]

i got a big question.

 

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/mannoroth/Saief/simple

 

I could change 

 

head, leg, gloves, shoulders for T14 and get the 4 set bonus or keep my timeless isle gear. But im losing around 600-700 stam and agi + some crits and others. 

 

Im afraid to lose dps on it but when i ask Mr.Robot what is best in my bags, it says that to equip the 4 pieces.

 

im not sure if 5% more damage on mangle and +4 sec to rip is worth losing that much agi/stam and beneficial stats.

Edited October 14, 2013 by saief

[Kitarakae 2]

I have a question for you first: which T14 set? The LFR, the normal raid or heroic raid set? 

[saief 0]

Oh sorry, i thought i wrote it! 

 

Its the LFR version, 483 i think

[Paloro 39]

It would not be worth it for you to switch for those set bonuses.

[saief 0]

ok thank you paloro :)