ArtOfTransmog

Mastering the Beast Mastery

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Greetings People of the Frozen Arteries Interwebs. 

My name is summerhowl, of ravenholdt. I had been advised that i should link my armoury so that people could better advise me based on what my current armor is. 

https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-us/character/ravenholdt/summerhowl

I have recently received Soul of the Huntmaster, and before that i have my trusty Roar of the Seven Lions and my Call of the Wild + CoF, which had served me fairly well recently, but now i feel a double talent build could prove a lot more effective but i am not too sure. i have only found success due to Ask Mr Robot and Icy Veins BM guide. on a regular, mostly single target boss pull, say, harjatan or maybe elisande, i am finding myself pulling ROUGHLY 800k, and burst up to roughly 1.1 mil. I am also ilvl 908 right now. 

Wether i use my Call of the Wild+ CoF, or Soul of the Huntmaster, (i always use my Roar of the Seven Lions, it was my first leggy and will always be with me) my dps stays roughly the same, but i want to try and get better. 

I can honestly say i've never been a huge fan of dire frenzy, as i am a huge pet hunter, and my stable is filled to the brim with rare unique pets, and i have my dire beast glyphed to summon my stable pets.

Ever since i have gotten my Call of the Wild, i have been running Way of the Cobra, Stomp, Bestial Fury (w my Call of the Wild, now running both Bestial fury and One with the Pack thx to my new ring), and either murder of crows for most boss fights, or volley for mythic dungies, and then Killer Cobra always b/c of my Roar of the Seven Lions allows me to run through more Kill Command/Cobra Shot combos, usually trying to throw in as many dire beasts as i can in that time due to my tier 19 bonus to empower my beasts, as well as throwing in any buffs appropriately (like Titan's Thunder when i have like 1-2 additional dire beasts up, or a Aspect of the wild when i need focus, or (since i am a troll) pop my berserking to add some more haste) 

I am consistently trying to pursue a 6 piece of tier, 4 piece from tomb and 2 piece from nighthold, as i have 905 helmet and pants, i think i can stand to hold on to them for a while. I also have an 895 Bloodthirsty Instinct, and an 890 CoF equipped, even w/o my call of the wild. I would like to know how religiously i should follow Ask Mr Robot, as currently the only thing i can replace my CoF with that is not mythic is a heroic Cradle of Anguish. Does this make sense? i am by no means a sim crafter. plz send knowledge friends. 

Edit (03/July/2017): So i just beat Kil'Jaeden last night and i was pulling roughly 750k throughout the fight. on thursday i had received tier shoulders and now have my 6 piece (Shoulders/Chest from Tomb and Helm/Cape/Gloves/Pants from Nighthold) and i had been informed on a separate forum that i could afford to lose quite a bit more mastery for some more crit and haste, if i wanted to run a Soul of the Huntmaster build. Currently i think i am going to stick with my Call of the Wild + CoF build for the versatile support, as i was really using all of my aspect abilities (wild, turtle and cheetah) during the kil'jaeden fight, although we did manage to beat him without me using my Call of the Wild.

As well as on said aforementioned forum, i should try to pursue high level Nighthold Gloves and Pants tier, i would assume for the correct stat alignment. I currently have 905 helm and pants from nighthold (got a lucky titan forge) and am currently trying to shift to a 4 piece from tomb for the sheer ilvl upgrade. 

 

So, in conclusion 

- How viable is dire frenzy compared to dire beast now? i like to show off my stable.

- what is the better leggy combo, Call of the Wild + CoF VS Soul of the Huntmaster, both using the zoo master build

- Trinkets? I doubt i will be replacing my 895 BTI any time soon, but as for my heroic CoF, should i be searching for something specific from normal or heroic tomb? 

 

Any help or advice at all would be appreciated. 

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There are two things to look at, currently, when it comes to Frenzy, and that is whether you still have the 2-piece tier 19. If so, you are going to find anywhere from 20-60k higher DPS (roughly) by using the WotC,  Stomp, OWtP, AMoC, and KB build. As soon as you ditch the tier 19 2-piece, you will be better off with the WotC, DF, BF, AMoC, and KB build. You will need to sim in order to know for sure whether using the 4-piecve tier 20 and 2-piece tier 19 combo will be best with the first or second build. The key with the first build is that Crit becomes king, up to 35%. Those are really your two raiding options when it comes to single target builds for Tomb. The first build is also pretty good in multi target due to stomp, so less changes to worry about making from boss to boss.

Your legendary set-up will be equally as important. You got very lucky to get Roar that early on. I still don't have it and barely got the Shoulders about 6 weeks ago. CotW + CoF was a great combo for me though, luckily. I used it with the helm for most of the expansion, with decent parses and great value to my guild (which doubled when I finally got the shoulders). I am running with the shoulders and Roots now, as they perform better than the bracers with CoF. I also got very lucky getting a 915 Engine of Eradication and 920 Tarnished Sentinel in the first two weeks though.

You should really be running sims on yourself to get a good idea of where to go. Sims answer more questions for your character than anyone on these forums can. If your PC has issues running simulationcraft, there is a great website called Raidbots that has servers to perform sims for you, as well as some amazing options to evaluate gear in your bags. (Download SimC addon to copy and paste for ease of use when comparing gear). GL!

Edited by Sharknad0

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3 hours ago, ArtOfTransmog said:

I also have an 895 Bloodthirsty Instinct

This makes me extremely jelly!

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Well, first off, your talent combination is subpar. If you run Stomp then you have to go with One With the Pack. If you run Dire Frenzy then you pick Bestial Fury. Basically those are the only the correct combinations, Stomp with Bestial Fury doesn't work as well. However, Stomp + OWTP requires a much higher crit than what you have.

 

From my experience heroic Cradle of Anguish (which is 915) is better than 890 CoF, when using the Soul fo the Huntmaster, and I've been getting more dps with it than with the bracers anyway. The Huntmaster ring is best with the zoo build, keeping tier19 2-piece bonus plus tier20 4-piece bonus. The Cradle can be tricky, and maybe bad in some progress fights, especially if your healers are having trouble. I haven't tested it in mythic bosses yet.

 

I personally advice against using Ask Mr Robot for BM hunters. My in-game dps is always higher than their simulations. As far as I can tell, their algorithm for how to execute Killer Cobra is incorrect, because my logs always show more Kill Commands than what askmrrobot predicts. I think raidbots.com is better.

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Just now, Sharknad0 said:

This makes me extremely jelly!

You just said you got a 915 Engine and 920 Sentinel, both of which are better than a 895 Bloodthirsty Instinct, so why are you jealous?

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8 hours ago, Khallid said:

From my experience heroic Cradle of Anguish (which is 915) is better than 890 CoF, when using the Soul fo the Huntmaster, and I've been getting more dps with it than with the bracers anyway. The Huntmaster ring is best with the zoo build, keeping tier19 2-piece bonus plus tier20 4-piece bonus. The Cradle can be tricky, and maybe bad in some progress fights, especially if your healers are having trouble. I haven't tested it in mythic bosses yet.

 

I definitely understand the cradle being tricky on progression seeing as health can be an issue. i will keep my CoF around for that situation. but does the tarnished sentinel medallion ever come into good light? or is it just meh compared to cradle of anguish and CoF? B/c i doubt i am going to have to replace my 895 BTI in any capacity. 

As for Legendaries, i am def going to keep my belt on, (and yes shark i was extremely elated when i got it. Heroic Nightmare Dragons like 6-8 months back.) And i think i am going to go forward as such:

- Keep a 2 piece from T19, and a 4 Piece from T20 at all times, belt at all times

- Try to attain 35% crit (and much less mastery) for zookeeper build (as honestly i want to stay away from DF as much as i can), and when i get there THEN i use my soul of the huntmaster. 

- Until then, i think i will stick with CotW + CoF as it provides more versatile benefits as opposed to a straight up dps increase which i don't think will be that much right now seeing as though my crit is still so low, plus i need turtle a ton to soak armageddon on Kil'Jaeden. Plus i am already topping the charts of my guild's raid team. 

 

As for Sim-ing, i know what it is, i have no idea how to get into it, or if my computer can even run it. guilty i am a filthy mac user b/c my last pc (which wasn't even a gaming pc) was too old and slow and couldn't run WoW. I hope to get an actual gaming PC soon enough though, i've been wanting one for years. 

Main question right now is this, I am likely going to be sticking to my guns with my current build (WotC, Stomp, BF, Murder, and KC) as my crit isn't nearly high enough for OwtP to be viable in any capacity (i don't think, could be wrong), but would it be smarter to us my CotW + CoF or my SotHM so i can have both OwtP and BF at once? My ilvl is 1 higher with Soul, as i have 910 bracers w mast/vers on them. 

 

Thx for all the help guys. 

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11 hours ago, ArtOfTransmog said:

 

I definitely understand the cradle being tricky on progression seeing as health can be an issue. i will keep my CoF around for that situation. but does the tarnished sentinel medallion ever come into good light? or is it just meh compared to cradle of anguish and CoF? B/c i doubt i am going to have to replace my 895 BTI in any capacity. 

As for Legendaries, i am def going to keep my belt on, (and yes shark i was extremely elated when i got it. Heroic Nightmare Dragons like 6-8 months back.) And i think i am going to go forward as such:

- Keep a 2 piece from T19, and a 4 Piece from T20 at all times, belt at all times

- Try to attain 35% crit (and much less mastery) for zookeeper build (as honestly i want to stay away from DF as much as i can), and when i get there THEN i use my soul of the huntmaster. 

- Until then, i think i will stick with CotW + CoF as it provides more versatile benefits as opposed to a straight up dps increase which i don't think will be that much right now seeing as though my crit is still so low, plus i need turtle a ton to soak armageddon on Kil'Jaeden. Plus i am already topping the charts of my guild's raid team. 

 

As for Sim-ing, i know what it is, i have no idea how to get into it, or if my computer can even run it. guilty i am a filthy mac user b/c my last pc (which wasn't even a gaming pc) was too old and slow and couldn't run WoW. I hope to get an actual gaming PC soon enough though, i've been wanting one for years. 

Main question right now is this, I am likely going to be sticking to my guns with my current build (WotC, Stomp, BF, Murder, and KC) as my crit isn't nearly high enough for OwtP to be viable in any capacity (i don't think, could be wrong), but would it be smarter to us my CotW + CoF or my SotHM so i can have both OwtP and BF at once? My ilvl is 1 higher with Soul, as i have 910 bracers w mast/vers on them. 

 

Thx for all the help guys. 

raidbots.com does all the hard work of the sims for you, and takes 1/4 of the time. It's not hard to use, just download the SimC addon, and to get the data in-game, type /simc and copy the text where it asks into raidbots. Do the simulation comparisons in the gear compare section, but you'll definitely find your dps is really low until you can hit 35% crit.

As for everything else, you want to use that soul of the huntmaster ring ASAP.

For specific tier pieces, you'll do fine with the helm / legs but you need 35% crit and you'll have to get it from other sources (rings/neck/enchants/socket).

CotW + CoF are pretty outdated, that combo will get replaced pretty quickly, unless you somehow run a NH and get a 925+ CoF.

895 BTI isn't very high, and an Engine of Eradication at 900+ will easily outdps it.

Cradle is good, but only for bosses you have on farm and the healers can easily manage, it will be useless in mythic, especially prog, since there is so much avoidable raid damage in ToS.

My honest advice for the mean time would be: until your crit gets a lot higher, switch to the DF build, stomp is only really viable with high crit.

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3 hours ago, Luthixx said:

raidbots.com does all the hard work of the sims for you, and takes 1/4 of the time. It's not hard to use, just download the SimC addon, and to get the data in-game, type /simc and copy the text where it asks into raidbots.

The whole point of using Raidbots is that it's a browser-run simcraft. You don't need to download anything.  You only need to tell the website your name and server and it will load your armory and do all the calculations automatically.

15 hours ago, ArtOfTransmog said:

I am likely going to be sticking to my guns with my current build (WotC, Stomp, BF, Murder, and KC)

Well, then. Why do you ask for help if you're going to disregard the advice? You should be using DIre Frenzy.

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16 hours ago, Khallid said:

The whole point of using Raidbots is that it's a browser-run simcraft. You don't need to download anything.  You only need to tell the website your name and server and it will load your armory and do all the calculations automatically.

But if you want other data like your talents that you can do quickly in dalaran, it'll save you logging out repeatedly to update your armoury. 

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On 7/3/2017 at 10:43 AM, Khallid said:

You just said you got a 915 Engine and 920 Sentinel, both of which are better than a 895 Bloodthirsty Instinct, so why are you jealous?

Because I killed Ursoc a million times trying to get better than an 865 and never did. Would have been nice to have one this high, before I got these two.

Edited by Sharknad0

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On 7/3/2017 at 7:00 PM, ArtOfTransmog said:

As for Sim-ing, i know what it is, i have no idea how to get into it, or if my computer can even run it. guilty i am a filthy mac user b/c my last pc (which wasn't even a gaming pc) was too old and slow and couldn't run WoW. I hope to get an actual gaming PC

Trust me, check out raidbots.com. Hit stat weights and input your server / character name. You won't regret it. Downloading /simC would be a benefit, but not necessary if you don't mind logging in and out to swap things for testing.

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On 2017-07-05 at 3:21 AM, Luthixx said:

But if you want other data like your talents that you can do quickly in dalaran, it'll save you logging out repeatedly to update your armoury. 

If you install simc addon and use raidbots, you never have to logoff to update your armoury as the simc addon takes a copy/paste of your spec, gear that you are currently wearing and all the gear that is in your bags. SimC addon + Raidbots.com is better and faster than Mr. Robot.

Edited by nToxik
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