Meltrump 2 Report post Posted July 3, 2017 Hey peeps. The Assa-guide is not mentioning how your opener should be with Mantle Legendary. In-game I'm still trying different things and I can't really come to a conclusion. I have searched a lot on the net and people have very different ways of doing it - so now I'm reaching out to you. Hopefully you will share your knowledge :) Question 1: How to open with T19-4p? Question 2: How to open with T20-4p? Bonus question: Is it still worth breaking Vanish with Envenom if you have 2 Envenom Relics or is it now shit duo to T19-4p nerf and removal of AP? Thank you in advance! 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Carrn 284 Report post Posted July 5, 2017 On 7/3/2017 at 4:05 PM, Meltrump said: Hey peeps. The Assa-guide is not mentioning how your opener should be with Mantle Legendary. In-game I'm still trying different things and I can't really come to a conclusion. I have searched a lot on the net and people have very different ways of doing it - so now I'm reaching out to you. Hopefully you will share your knowledge :) Question 1: How to open with T19-4p? Question 2: How to open with T20-4p? Bonus question: Is it still worth breaking Vanish with Envenom if you have 2 Envenom Relics or is it now shit duo to T19-4p nerf and removal of AP? Thank you in advance! I haven't looked around to find enough people for the t20 opener, but I doubt it will be much different unless you play Exsang over Toxic Blade. My personal opener would be something like this: Garrote Mut Rupture Mut Vend Envenom Kingsbane Toxic Blade Vanish Envenom > Mut > Envenom Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Meltrump 2 Report post Posted July 5, 2017 Thanks Carrn. Breaking Vanish with Envenom without T19 4set and without envenom relics, rly? Not better to wait for rupture to hit 7,5 sec and then refresh it with Vanish? Or is that retarderede because you want to go nuts with Shoulder buff while Vendetta is running? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Meltrump 2 Report post Posted July 5, 2017 Mb better to break Vanish with Garrote when you have t20 4p and use Subterfuge? Thats a 185% increased dmg and it might fit better with the pandemic timing on Garrote from the opener, meaning you can fire it away without waiting and pull the whole 12 second shoulder buff sequence off in the first Vendetta window. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Carrn 284 Report post Posted July 6, 2017 4 hours ago, Meltrump said: Thanks Carrn. Breaking Vanish with Envenom without T19 4set and without envenom relics, rly? Not better to wait for rupture to hit 7,5 sec and then refresh it with Vanish? Or is that retarderede because you want to go nuts with Shoulder buff while Vendetta is running? The damage that you get from a guaranteed Envenom crit which is buffed by 50% is much more than the damage that you get from a 50% buffed Rupture which is guaranteed to crit only a couple times. You also get a huge benefit from Toxic Blade, which boosts the damage on your Envenoms, and the increased poison applications makes your Kingsbane significantly stronger as well. So yes, the damage that you pump out with the shoulder buff is really absurd if you set it up properly, but also refreshing Rupture so early is pointless. 10 hours ago, Meltrump said: Mb better to break Vanish with Garrote when you have t20 4p and use Subterfuge? Thats a 185% increased dmg and it might fit better with the pandemic timing on Garrote from the opener, meaning you can fire it away without waiting and pull the whole 12 second shoulder buff sequence off in the first Vendetta window. I'm not sure which will be more beneficial to open with; I suspect that playing Nightstalker and breaking with a full CP Rupture will still be strong, as Exsang will offer a lot of burst with that combo. Garrote doesn't really hit that hard either - 40% extra isn't enough to make it hit harder than Rupture, and with the reduced cooldown from the 2 set bonus, reapplication after Exsang with be easier rather than having the buff drop for a while, and Rupture will still deal a majority of the damage Every Sin Rogue is still very Mastery heavy and therefore not playing Bleed too much though, so until gear begins to migrate over (if it does), I expect we'll see things staying the way they are regardless of set bonuses. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Meltrump 2 Report post Posted July 6, 2017 10 hours ago, Carrn said: The damage that you get from a guaranteed Envenom crit which is buffed by 50% is much more than the damage that you get from a 50% buffed Rupture which is guaranteed to crit only a couple times. You also get a huge benefit from Toxic Blade, which boosts the damage on your Envenoms, and the increased poison applications makes your Kingsbane significantly stronger as well. So yes, the damage that you pump out with the shoulder buff is really absurd if you set it up properly, but also refreshing Rupture so early is pointless. I'm not sure which will be more beneficial to open with; I suspect that playing Nightstalker and breaking with a full CP Rupture will still be strong, as Exsang will offer a lot of burst with that combo. Garrote doesn't really hit that hard either - 40% extra isn't enough to make it hit harder than Rupture, and with the reduced cooldown from the 2 set bonus, reapplication after Exsang with be easier rather than having the buff drop for a while, and Rupture will still deal a majority of the damage Every Sin Rogue is still very Mastery heavy and therefore not playing Bleed too much though, so until gear begins to migrate over (if it does), I expect we'll see things staying the way they are regardless of set bonuses. It all makes very much sense. Never thought of the Envenom being 100% crit and Rupture only critting 100% on the first 6 seconds of it. Imma stick to Nightstalker talent and continuously break stealth with Envenom - got it! :) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Primalpunk 0 Report post Posted July 6, 2017 On 7/5/2017 at 1:51 PM, Carrn said: I haven't looked around to find enough people for the t20 opener, but I doubt it will be much different unless you play Exsang over Toxic Blade. My personal opener would be something like this: Garrote Mut Rupture Mut Vend Envenom Kingsbane Toxic Blade Vanish Envenom > Mut > Envenom Why do you cast Kingsbane before Toxic Blade? Doesn't Toxic Blade buff the initial Kingsbane hit? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Carrn 284 Report post Posted July 6, 2017 2 hours ago, Primalpunk said: Why do you cast Kingsbane before Toxic Blade? Doesn't Toxic Blade buff the initial Kingsbane hit? It will continue to buff the damage it inflicts over time, and casting TB after means it stays up even for 1s longer which means 1 more Envenom you can get in the window Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Vdeku 3 Report post Posted July 7, 2017 I hate you both :'( Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Carrn 284 Report post Posted July 7, 2017 3 hours ago, Vdeku said: I hate you both :'( To be fair that isn't me :P That said, the difference is probably negligible. I see people doing it both ways on different parses 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Meltrump 2 Report post Posted July 24, 2017 (edited) So guys... Now with the Mantle nerf? How will your opener look? I was thinking: Garrote -> Mutilate -> Rupture -> Vendetta -> Kingsbane -> Toxic Blade VANISH Envenom -> Mutilate -> Garrote -> Envenom -> Mutilate -> Envenom With T204p and Subterfuge Edited July 24, 2017 by Meltrump Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
