Starym

Exorsus GM Extensively Talks About ToS

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As promised, Alveona, Exorsus' guild master, has posted his opinions on the Tomb of Sargeras Mythic race on reddit. He goes really in-depth not only on the hot topic of Kil'jaeden, but the rest of the raid as well - from the difficulty curve, to what he thinks went wrong with the instance, hardcore raiding mythbusting and more.

As you can imagine he's not too thrilled with the whole thing, but the post is well explained and we can get a feeling of what their frustrations on the boss(es) were much better. It's definitely worth a read if you're interested in the perspective of top-end raiders and in what tuning of a new raid looks like in the extremely early days of a new (Mythic) tier. Here are some highlights from the post:

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I. Difficulty Curve:

7. Kil'jaeden. Boss received 3 waves of nerfs before actually being killable. Apart from nerfs, boss had some very serious bugs, leading to very slow progression. I’ve seen a lot of comments like “get good” or “you forgot what is challenge”. Of course I know that 80% of such posts is just trolling, however to make sure everyone understands what was happening - https://puu.sh/wSQN3/ac457ff435.webm . Good luck dodging such things. This bug ruined ~8% of our pulls. Now talking about nerfs – we barely have seen boss pre-first nerf, which reduced Armageddon damage, however this nerf itself didn’t really helped a lot. Until 10th of July getting to second phase was really hard (best way was to avoid tanking mob and push the boss asap). Transition phase itself had crazy timings, leading to knockback at the same time as Armageddon. Not to mention “Focused Dreadflame” damage was around 30m, meaning even if you’re splitting it with 9 persons with 20% versatility it’s still ~ 3.5m damage to each person, which is ridiculous, unless you’re immuning it. However after the second batch of nerfs (Adds hp nerf, Focused Dreadflame damage halved , 2 less Armageddon zones, knockback distance reduced, timings on all phases tuned to be more realistic) we’ve started making some real progression on the fight. The last, but bot least was damage on last phase from “Darkness of a Thousand Souls”, it has been nerfed by 40%, to make sure it’s possible to stay alive on last phase without bringing 6 healers.

 

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II. What’s went wrong with ToS?

3. Immunity stacking. Half of ToS encounters are way easier if you stack immunity classes (some of them are not even possible before some nerfs without such stacking). Soaking different zones, removing debuffs from you, ignoring some abilities. That’s something that has been a thing all the time, however in ToS it’s just came up to a new level, which is a very bad practice. Why such issues came up this time? I have no idea to be honest.

...

Talking about “why are you blaming Blizzard”, “stop your harsh comments” etc posts, I’m not writing all of this to blame, I really hope such info can help them to avoid making same mistakes twice, and I’m pretty polite, from my point of view. As a dedicated fan of a game I’m only interested in WoW PvE raiding scene to become more and more popular and attractive.

 

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III. Some hardcore raiding mythbusting

3. “Back in the days progression took 2 months and now they’re whining after x days of progression on a boss/raid overall”. You all should realize you can’t compare current situation with those old days, every top guild is running 6-7 splitruns and trying to gear up everyone to best possible gear asap, creating special addons for the bosses and wasting some enormous amount of time per day, which all were not a thing before. Fun thing is If we’re talking about Fallen Avatar, for example, average raid ilvl for top 2 kills were 929-930, with FA itself dropping 930 ilvl items (yes, it’s a bit inaccurate due to 2 legendaries and weapon, but still). So for example 1 more reset of a Mythic reclear will not increase your dps dramatically (unless you’re super lucky for titanforged relics), since you’ve got almost all necessary items in heroic splits / previous mythic clears.

Be sure to check out the whole thing for better context and even more info.

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Finally, a nice post to shut up all the people comparing Legion raiding to vanilla and BC, giving Exorsus grief for 'complaining' the boss was too challenging (you guys dont know what a challenge really is), and also to all the people complaining that they are 'cheesing' mechanics with good soak classes. Some people just dont appreciate the effort these guys put into this game, and this tier. Its already demoralizing enough to lose out to world first, but then to see all these comments giving grief to Exorsus for the things i listed above is really pathetic to say the least. You guys think the GM just 'complains' after finishing a tier for the sake of it? Of course not, he is only trying to help Blizzard do their best in the future to ensure broken bosses like Mythic KJ dont happen again.

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4 hours ago, Daemon said:

Finally, a nice post to shut up all the people comparing Legion raiding to vanilla and BC, giving Exorsus grief for 'complaining' the boss was too challenging (you guys dont know what a challenge really is), and also to all the people complaining that they are 'cheesing' mechanics with good soak classes. Some people just dont appreciate the effort these guys put into this game, and this tier. Its already demoralizing enough to lose out to world first, but then to see all these comments giving grief to Exorsus for the things i listed above is really pathetic to say the least. You guys think the GM just 'complains' after finishing a tier for the sake of it? Of course not, he is only trying to help Blizzard do their best in the future to ensure broken bosses like Mythic KJ dont happen again.

I agree, this is a really a good feedback at developers and designers and lets hope/pray this will increase the quality for untested encounters.

But i have another pov, if this post should "shut up" the people. In my opinion there is a reason why some people said "don't complain about difficulty, it should not be easy at all". The problem is, that Exsorus and Method were complaining and instead of giving a proper feedback (which is understandable due to progress and not giving a hint to other combatants). If there is no proper justification, then this will lead to such statements. Look, i absolutely understand that it is frustrating to fight a broken encounter and wipe over and over again. But what is Method and Exsorsus expecting if they tweet complains? The reaction of the community was predictable and they have to accept (and ignore) such statements.

And now i'd like to defend the work of developers and designers of Blizzard (and no, i'm absolutely not a fanboy). So again: what are these top-raiding-guilds expecting? How many % of WoW-Players will ever see the mythic fight of KJ? How can someone blame the developers and designers for not investing that much time in such an ecounter? I really wish myself back to the days without that difficluty smashing. With more time for developers to introduce fights like Lady Vashj, Kael'thas, Illidan and so on.

As a conclusion if someone is interested on my pov: cut off these first kill race. That doesn't improve my (and approximately 99% of the players) quality of raiding. If there are bugs and broken mechanics in such fights, accept it or let it be.

 

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I'm more annoyed at their kneejerk reaction. They are one of the very best raiding guilds in the world and help represent the hardcore WoW raiding scene. Blizzard messes up once in god knows how many years, and they react like that. Doesn't paint a very good picture if you ask me.

I'm glad that they sat down and had a more professional talk about what happened though. Good luck to them in Antorus, and hopefully Blizzard have learned from their mistakes.

Edited by Maruken
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2 hours ago, Maruken said:

I'm more annoyed at their kneejerk reaction. They are one of the very best raiding guilds in the world and help represent the hardcore WoW raiding scene. Blizzard messes up once in god knows how many years, and they react like that. Doesn't paint a very good picture if you ask me.

I'm glad that they sat down and had a more professional talk about what happened though. Good luck to them in Antorus, and hopefully Blizzard have learned from their mistakes.

Yeah they act like whiny kids.

Seeing KJ survive so long is nice imo.

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Method got him what, 9 days before you described him as 'killable'

He was therefore killable

Cry into your vodka and accept that you aren't as great as you think.

Edited by MrEdren
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13 minutes ago, MrEdren said:

Method got him what, 9 days before you described him as 'killable'

He was therefore killable

Cry into your vodka and accept that you aren't as great as you think.

He was referring to all the hotfixes before Method killed him, there were 3 huge un-documented waves changes to the fight before Method's kill. You can read them all here https://www.icy-veins.com/forums/topic/32075-method-wf-tos-interview/.

5 hours ago, Maruken said:

I'm more annoyed at their kneejerk reaction. They are one of the very best raiding guilds in the world and help represent the hardcore WoW raiding scene. Blizzard messes up once in god knows how many years, and they react like that. Doesn't paint a very good picture if you ask me.

I'm glad that they sat down and had a more professional talk about what happened though. Good luck to them in Antorus, and hopefully Blizzard have learned from their mistakes.

While I agree it was a kneejerk reaction this is FAR from Blizzard's first screwup in years in terms of the race/tuning. Basically every single Mythic only endboss (and a looot of Mythic bosses in general) are full of bugs and poor tuning when the WF guilds get to them. So I feel like KJ was like the final straw or something like that, it always happens every tier, just not for as long and as massive as KJ and both guilds that had to experience it kinda just threw their hands up in frustration (where throwing their hands up = posting on twitter :D )

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32 minutes ago, Starym said:

He was referring to all the hotfixes before Method killed him, there were 3 huge un-documented waves changes to the fight before Method's kill. You can read them all here https://www.icy-veins.com/forums/topic/32075-method-wf-tos-interview/.

While I agree it was a kneejerk reaction this is FAR from Blizzard's first screwup in years in terms of the race/tuning. Basically every single Mythic only endboss (and a looot of Mythic bosses in general) are full of bugs and poor tuning when the WF guilds get to them. So I feel like KJ was like the final straw or something like that, it always happens every tier, just not for as long and as massive as KJ and both guilds that had to experience it kinda just threw their hands up in frustration (where throwing their hands up = posting on twitter :D )

I guess I'm not really sure why this is unexpected - they don't allow external testing of Mythic endbosses, and IIRC they've really never allowed for the final boss of any raid (see also: C'thunkillable).  Not to dismiss it as a nonissue, but I don't know how much they can really do in-house.  I'm also still not convinced that they aren't aware of the issues and just using them to create fixes for larger (read: non world first) consumption.

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More that anything it just sounds like they are angry cause they got second and not first and they want something to blame. Method made a few comments on the difficulty and then just let it go. Exorsus needs just be happy that they cleared the content and got the world second and move on. 

Edited by Nathex
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7 hours ago, Maruken said:

They are one of the very best raiding guilds in the world and help represent the hardcore WoW raiding scene. 

"best" is objective. See those raid schedules? 

The best description i ever read about these "top guilds" their unpaid alpha testers.

I think it would of been hilarious to not nerf it for a length of time. Wait for a bunch of guilds to be on equal footing then announce "nerfs" next week and when servers will be back online and see who can kill him first. 

That be a race...100 guilds around the same ilevel knowing the nerf is in and the raid is open at X:XX o'clock.  It would be hilarious to see one of those crazy good 6 hour a week guilds beat these "top" guilds. 

 

Edited by Banard
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5 hours ago, Banard said:

"best" is objective. See those raid schedules? 

The best description i ever read about these "top guilds" their unpaid alpha testers.

I think it would of been hilarious to not nerf it for a length of time. Wait for a bunch of guilds to be on equal footing then announce "nerfs" next week and when servers will be back online and see who can kill him first. 

That be a race...100 guilds around the same ilevel knowing the nerf is in and the raid is open at X:XX o'clock.  It would be hilarious to see one of those crazy good 6 hour a week guilds beat these "top" guilds. 

 

It may be hilarious but it wouldn't show you who the best guild is. I suppose it would depend on the nerfs, but for example with C'thun the World First didn't necessarily go to the best guild, it was just there because the nerf came in EU raiding times and Nihilum was still raiding at the time slamming our heads against that unkillable wall, basically giving us the WF by default. So basically it would come down to luck and/or who got in the raid first. And again if the nerfs weren't that big you'd again need a long time to kill the boss and again the guilds which stayed and played the longest would have an advantage (presuming all guilds at equal player skill).

I do totally agree with you that any 100% fair race should NOT require these types of commitments from players, it's ridiculous to expect guilds to have 20+ of their members take 2-3 weeks off from work or even if they don't work to just not do anything else every day for that amount of time. Blizzard have it in their power to fix this (tournament realms, give all guilds the same fully geared chars, they can choose whichever class legendary, whatever, you limit the realm uptime to 4-6 hours a day or even less etc etc) but they will never do that because they don't really care about the race.

7 hours ago, MrEdren said:

I guess I'm not really sure why this is unexpected - they don't allow external testing of Mythic endbosses, and IIRC they've really never allowed for the final boss of any raid (see also: C'thunkillable).  Not to dismiss it as a nonissue, but I don't know how much they can really do in-house.  I'm also still not convinced that they aren't aware of the issues and just using them to create fixes for larger (read: non world first) consumption.

I'm not sure what you mean with that last sentence. I can tell you for a fact Blizz can indeed create well tuned bosses without anyone testing them, it's simply a matter of resources (and talent). Gul'dan didn't get any complaints, why do you think that is? Bevause they had time to do him properly and make a real boss, while with KJ there was less time and they didn't expend more resources to compensate and so he was in a worse condition. I mean I don't understand your argument I guess, it's clearly possible for Blizz to do proper endbosses without external testing (to a point, like a said there's always issues and bugs etc, it's just a matter of how big, how many and how fast they get fixed) and they didn't do it for Kj, that's ALL this is about.

I understand people really dislike these top guilds complaining (although I honestly can't understand why), but please trust me on this, if the general populace EVER ran into bugs and tuning issues like this when they came to any boss, there would be infinity billion more whining and complaining, and it wouldn't be anywhere near as constructive.

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19 hours ago, Allseye said:

I agree, this is a really a good feedback at developers and designers and lets hope/pray this will increase the quality for untested encounters.

But i have another pov, if this post should "shut up" the people. In my opinion there is a reason why some people said "don't complain about difficulty, it should not be easy at all". The problem is, that Exsorus and Method were complaining and instead of giving a proper feedback (which is understandable due to progress and not giving a hint to other combatants). If there is no proper justification, then this will lead to such statements. Look, i absolutely understand that it is frustrating to fight a broken encounter and wipe over and over again. But what is Method and Exsorsus expecting if they tweet complains? The reaction of the community was predictable and they have to accept (and ignore) such statements.

And now i'd like to defend the work of developers and designers of Blizzard (and no, i'm absolutely not a fanboy). So again: what are these top-raiding-guilds expecting? How many % of WoW-Players will ever see the mythic fight of KJ? How can someone blame the developers and designers for not investing that much time in such an ecounter? I really wish myself back to the days without that difficluty smashing. With more time for developers to introduce fights like Lady Vashj, Kael'thas, Illidan and so on.

As a conclusion if someone is interested on my pov: cut off these first kill race. That doesn't improve my (and approximately 99% of the players) quality of raiding. If there are bugs and broken mechanics in such fights, accept it or let it be.

 

Sure i dont disagree with your 'pov', maybe exorsus and method should of put more detail into their tweets but what i want to encourage the most is for casual players to have a more open mind about method and exorsus 'povs'. You say the reaction of the community was expected, but what im saying is that the community should not be so narrow minded, these guilds just smashes their heads against a boss for the better part of a week (more in exorsus' case), these guys should realise the frustration of these guilds. Sure maybe they should of gave a bit more insight in their tweets, but would you do the same if you just wiped on a boss all day for a week straight? I dont think so, be a bit more open minded, and see the point of view of these players.

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4 hours ago, Daemon said:

You say the reaction of the community was expected, but what im saying is that the community should not be so narrow minded, these guilds just smashes their heads against a boss for the better part of a week (more in exorsus' case), these guys should realise the frustration of these guilds.

Yeah, the community could not be so narrow minded. But it will never be this way because there is no reason to do so. It's the top guilds decision to take 2 weeks off and do the race. They know endbosses are untested and that there could (or will) exists bugs. So don't complain about that fact, it's just ridiculous. There is no mercy in the community, and there hasn't to be. It's presumtuous to expect the developers fixing such bugs on untested ecounters within a short period. Such fixes serves a few people and so the costs aren't justifiable. 

8 hours ago, Starym said:

I understand people really dislike these top guilds complaining (although I honestly can't understand why), but please trust me on this, if the general populace EVER ran into bugs and tuning issues like this when they came to any boss, there would be infinity billion more whining and complaining, and it wouldn't be anywhere near as constructive.

Oh well, there is a reason to dislike such guilds. It's because they complain about something which is not relevant for about 99% of the community. Afterwards we're seeing "fixes" causes problems for a much greater part of the community (as we have seen for Elisande in Nighthold by creating more bugs which affected other difficulties). This happens because Blizzard don't take the time to fix it properly.

I agree, but if more people run in such problems the effort for fixes is justifiable. Whining and complaining it's not a problem itself, it depends on the impact of the problem, doesn't it?

 

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On 7/28/2017 at 6:32 PM, Starym said:

I'm not sure what you mean with that last sentence. I can tell you for a fact Blizz can indeed create well tuned bosses without anyone testing them, it's simply a matter of resources (and talent). Gul'dan didn't get any complaints, why do you think that is? Bevause they had time to do him properly and make a real boss, while with KJ there was less time and they didn't expend more resources to compensate and so he was in a worse condition. I mean I don't understand your argument I guess, it's clearly possible for Blizz to do proper endbosses without external testing (to a point, like a said there's always issues and bugs etc, it's just a matter of how big, how many and how fast they get fixed) and they didn't do it for Kj, that's ALL this is about.

I understand people really dislike these top guilds complaining (although I honestly can't understand why), but please trust me on this, if the general populace EVER ran into bugs and tuning issues like this when they came to any boss, there would be infinity billion more whining and complaining, and it wouldn't be anywhere near as constructive.

  • I mean that if they get their data from the top guilds, they can more easily figure out how far down to tune it for everyone else - they most certainly have the info to do so. 
  • Regarding GD, I don't claim to be a mythic raider so I can't answer that.  It does seem, however, that Helya was much more of an obstacle than GD was.
  • I can't agree or disagree that they had the resources but chose not to  use them, and tbh I don't think you can either unless you have a lot more inside info than I think
  • Vael, Viscidus, all of Naxx 40, Magtheridon, pretty much all 3 5-man ICC wings (not a raid, I know), Mimiron hardmode just to name several.

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Thing is, 100% fair race will NEVER happen, especially with random legendaries, titanforging/warforging/socketing/etc. 

Unless we're talking premades, the point is utterly moot.  Even then there will be guilds that put MORE time in, either in whole or in large parts of the whole, than the others.  More time in is more experience and that's not something Blizz can hotfix or premades can even out.

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I get the whole WF race and the prestige/accomplishment it can bring.  The thing about that is, If you're a "top guild", you're in the competition for world first, and tuning is THAT bad, you're only bringing frustration on to yourself.  Don't get me wrong, if you're even slightly competitive and you're in a world first race regardless of how bad tuning is you're going to repeatedly bash your head against the wall until something breaks, I get that.  However, don't complain and expect people to instantly go "oh you poor soul".

This post however was a constructive post.  It brought to light the reasonings behind the frustrations that they were displaying, and that is fine.

The casual player will probably never see Mythic until it's either previous or end of current tier content.  Do they really care if mythic bosses are tuned properly (especially at the beginning of current content)? Most likely not because it has no direct impact on them.  By the time semi-hardcore players see the content it will be nerfed a few times over with some tweaking left to do.  Hardcore players are directly impacted by mythic tuning and bug fixes.  

Quote

“Top guilds already killed all bosses on PTR”. Quite popular one, I admit. In fact every PTR test of a boss lasts ~ 2 hours, servers are not quite stable and ping is far from ideal (at least for us it’s 200-300ms). Main purpose of a PTR test for top guilds is to check abilities and find out which classes are the best for encounters, rather than simply to kill the boss asap and write in twitter “world 1st Harjatan PTR Mythic down”. Last boss is something we’re not seeing on PTR at all (not sure if it’s a good idea), but even for pre-last bosses we’re not able to test all the phases of it due to very limited timeframe + scaling / server stability etc.

The thing about this is that the true design of the PTR is for bug testing.  Personally I don't think raid testing should be on the PTR at all if the only reason they are doing it is to check abilities and find out which classes are best for the encounters.  That should be reserved for live raiding (yes I know not a lot of people will agree with this).  I personally think that raid testing should be done by Blizzard only QA employees in a closed environment, this way top guilds have to actually perform progression by learning the fights and mechanics in real time, thus giving them the actual accomplishment of WF and WS.

Quote

Tuning encounters for immunity classes. Lately a lot of abilities are being tuned for different immunes / damage reductions and similar mechanics, which are limiting classes we may bring to encounters. As an example – Mythic Kil'jaeden has 2 tanking Armageddon zones, however one of your tanks always has Fel Claws debuff, which increases your physical damage taken by 250%. So you’re forced to soak 30m phys damage Armageddon zone with someone, who can immune it (hunter/mage/paladin). And there’re plenty of other examples, especially in ToS (Dark Mark, Armageddon, Focused Dreadflame, Burning Sphere, Touch of Sargeras, Unstable Soul, Rain of Brimstone, Lunar Beacon)

I agree that this is becoming an issue.  I get that Blizzard is trying new things (or a revamp of old things), however, it's getting out of hand.  Even for Heroic my guild has been forced to bench players on K'J to favor immunity classes.

Quote

Implementing Balance changes in (7.X.5) patches right before new raid tier. Changing classes right before the raid is a awful decision. And it’s not only hardcore players issue. Let’s imagine I’m a casual player enjoying my class, looking forward playing it in a new raid. I know that i’m well aware of how to play my class, which legendaries, rotation and everything else I need to use. And suddenly, 2-3 weeks before a new raid my class is changed. What if I’m not a fan of them, there’s no time to reroll and for some people not enough time to adapt to all the changes. For the top guilds it’s not an issue, however because of that developers are getting new “balance and tuning” info too late, meaning some classes are staying too good for progression (hello Arms warriors), meanwhile other classes are just benched (Ret paladins, Frost DK etc).

This is complete crap.  With all of the extra content they added in 7.2.5 with the Broken Shore, relinquished gear, increase on TF levels and mythic+ changes it is 100% possible within 1 week to go from a fresh 110 to an ~890-900 item level character.  This is 100% determined by how you manage your time once new content comes out.  As an example my hunter went from 100 to 110 in about 1 days playtime (over the course of 2 days starting on a Friday evening after work), and was 870 item level within 3 days after that before even completing my order hall campaign.  By that following Friday I was about 895 item level which was still about 2 weeks before the release of ToS.  I am by no means a hardcore player, I just maximized the time I had.

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On 31/07/2017 at 8:42 AM, DeathsDesign said:

This is complete crap.  With all of the extra content they added in 7.2.5 with the Broken Shore, relinquished gear, increase on TF levels and mythic+ changes it is 100% possible within 1 week to go from a fresh 110 to an ~890-900 item level character.  This is 100% determined by how you manage your time once new content comes out.  As an example my hunter went from 100 to 110 in about 1 days playtime (over the course of 2 days starting on a Friday evening after work), and was 870 item level within 3 days after that before even completing my order hall campaign.  By that following Friday I was about 895 item level which was still about 2 weeks before the release of ToS.  I am by no means a hardcore player, I just maximized the time I had.

This last bit wasn't just a focus on gear, but on actually learning to maximise performance on the class. Gearing is easy, but speed-learning how to play a completely new class can be tough. If Survival suddenly became the best Hunter spec and one of the top class specs right before Argus, people everywhere would struggle horrendously to play it. It's by far the most challenging spec to maximise the potential of and takes far longer than a few weeks to master. People currently still play BM over SV regardless of how good SV sims simply because of how much more difficult it is to play.

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1 hour ago, Blainie said:

This last bit wasn't just a focus on gear, but on actually learning to maximise performance on the class. Gearing is easy, but speed-learning how to play a completely new class can be tough. If Survival suddenly became the best Hunter spec and one of the top class specs right before Argus, people everywhere would struggle horrendously to play it. It's by far the most challenging spec to maximise the potential of and takes far longer than a few weeks to master. People currently still play BM over SV regardless of how good SV sims simply because of how much more difficult it is to play.

That's a fair point, and I'll agree with you on that point.  I feel like for the average player it's harder to swap classes and play them to the potential they can play them at than it is for top teir players, it doesn't take away from all of the mental work they have to go through to perfect the class once they learn it.  For top tier players the curve is larger but for 80-90% potential it's shorter.  At least that's how I feel about it lol.  We are all just human after all and susceptible to mistakes.

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23 hours ago, DeathsDesign said:

That's a fair point, and I'll agree with you on that point.  I feel like for the average player it's harder to swap classes and play them to the potential they can play them at than it is for top teir players, it doesn't take away from all of the mental work they have to go through to perfect the class once they learn it.  For top tier players the curve is larger but for 80-90% potential it's shorter.  At least that's how I feel about it lol.  We are all just human after all and susceptible to mistakes.

Yeah, I know what you mean. Plenty of people are happy to play a class well, not many people seek to completely perfect their numerical DPS output, so they spend less time perfecting it.

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      Say what you want about the xpac, but there are ALOT of us who are having fun. Can't wait for the PTR. 

      Flame on bros...
      Appreciate the kudos but I'll be honest, It's not near what we want it to be at. Lore talked on it in the AMA but long story short, we want to do more. 

      I don't want to talk any of it up on what we're discussing internally in this area as I'd rather we just do it. Actions speak far louder right? Communication and participation on our side flat out hasn't been the best, and we want to change that.
      The community will be spending so much time deciphering my dance moves
      This would probably appease a weird section of the secret finding groups.
      6-Month Subscription Mount
      The Dreadwake mount can be obtained by subscribing to the game for 6 months. The promotion was planned for a while now and it's not Blizzard's response to "dropping subs" as many players assume.
      Blizzard (Source)
      Month after BFA and arguably the worst release of an expansion in Blizzards 14 year history. 

      Almost all twitch and youtube supporters of blizzard are firing away at how the game is failing. 

      supreme lack of communication from Blizzard, no real changes on the horizon. 

      Patch 8.1 already hitting PTR soon. 

      And now..... Blizzard is pairing a cool new Mount with 6 months of subs. 

      Basically saying hey, if you want this mount, we're not going to put it into the store like our other store mounts, we're going to force you to buy 6 months of subs before our financial quarter end to help make this expansion not look like the piece of garbage that it is. 

      HAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH

      what a joke

      bfa has officially gone down the tube and is losing people astronomically if these are the tactics they are resorting to. 

      BFA was the Fastest Day 1 selling expansion, and I bet my testiies that it is also the fastest expansion of people unsubbing in the history of wow.

      edit: six months of subs....
      Or... maybe we've been planning to have this mount promotion for quite a while now, I don't know maybe lets say the last 8 or 9 months. Possibly longer ...but what do I know, I only work on the team that promotes and publishes things like this and apparently this mount means our game is dead. I guess someone forgot to tell all of us this was the case.

      You don't honestly think we scrambled to put this together at this last minute do you? Also where is the line for tin foil hats when you enter GD? I missed out on mine.
      I do think that there's maybe a conversation about water striders and boats floating on water that needs to happen though.
      You know... we said the same thing when we got on ours this morning! I think someone shouted out "My ship is taking on water!". Said person is also dressed like a pirate today, so it made it that much better.
      You lie, or maybe you don't. But the tables sure don't look good for this specific time to be releasing something to attract subs. Actions speak much louder than words.
      This kind of promotion doesn't attract new subs. It's more of a reward for existing and an offer for those that might want to swap to a 6 month as it is cheaper. It's just adding additional value to that. 

      If you just want the mount that's fine, like we stated in the blog announcing this, it will be on the store eventually. ?
      I think the 6-month sub requirement attached is what seems suspicious. Maybe this mount was planned for this pirate day for months, but I'd wager that the decision to add it to a 6-month sub was a more recent decision based on something else.
      It wasn't a recent decision. You can see that from when the shop banner was data-mined months ago and posted by fansites. Kind of a clue its been in the works for a while if you look into that stuff ? 

      I get why people would think that though, but businesses as big as Blizzard don't just operate like people would like to think they do. Things like this take a lot of time and go through a lot of departments to finally be in front of you guys.
      Hrm, the "ShopGametimeBundle"
      You are no longer Snowfox, you are now Linkfox.

      For those asking for the link backing up what I said, here you go.
      I don't care for the mount.
      That's fair.
      Your one mount that took 8 months to develop
      That's not what I said.
      I didn't care for the promotion of the other one, to watch a dumb stream.
      Some people aren't into streams and that's okay. We try our best to mirror everything as much as possible so those who aren't into that can still see it through their preferred channels.
      I'll buy your stuff if you actually make it interesting and fun
      Even as an employee I agree with you, to each person that definition is different. Me personally before I was an employee I always had a 6 month sub because it was just cheaper so to me the mount is just a bonus. It's not something your paying for but rather an extra "thank you". I get what you're saying overall though.
      To be honest, they're actually paying YOU a few dollars to get the mount.
      ^ This is honestly more likely the case with these kinds of promotions.
      Apparently, you won't receive The Dreadwake mount after directly converting 6 WoW Tokens into game time. You must claim the tokens for balance first and buy the correct bundle from the shop.
      Blizzard (Source)
      So, if i use 6 tokens for game time will i get the mount? as always, blizz is quite confusing when they worded the offer. Thanks in advance.
      Hey guys,

      I just wanted to confirm that you would NOT get the Dreadwake mount if you convert your WoW Tokens into game time directly.

      In this case you would need to claim the tokens for balance first and then buy the correct bundle from our shop, here:
      https://eu.shop.battle.net/en-gb/product/world-of-warcraft-mount-dreadwake-gametime-bundle

      Hope this helps!
      Protection Warrior in Patch 8.1
      Buffs are coming for Protection Warriors. Class balance is a "sore spot" right now. They haven't decided yet what form those changes will take (patch vs. hotfix).
      Blizzard (Source)
      Shamans got a blue; Here's to hoping Warriors get one.

      I won't make a massive OP, there's been tomes written on how broken prot was since earliest stages of BfA beta. It's common knowledge that warriors make up for under 5% of all tank representation after 2 weeks of Uldir, in ALL types of content;

      They're weak, they lack a niche, their kit has been massively hurt by the GCD change, and they need a lot of love to become viable. Like. Without exaggeration, it's easier to heal a shadow priest who pulls aggro in a dungeon, than a prot warrior in that same dungeon...

      Blizzard? Are you doing this one class at a time, or can prots hope for some love as well? Cause it honestly feels really bad when the most iconic tank in the game is just so far behind it's not even worth using any more...
      I can’t speak to any plans for the patch, but I do know that we’re planning to make some tuning adjustments sometime in the next few weeks which should include some defensive buffs for Protection Warriors.
      Just curious but why can't you speak to any plans for the patch? You explained the tooltips for the proposed ele shaman changes, but can't speak about warriors? Or is it that there is nothing changing in the patch for warriors?
      Few reasons. Partially because I'm not a class designer, so I don't make those decisions. But also because the class team themselves haven't decided yet. We agree Prot Warriors need love, but aren't 100% decided on exactly what form those changes will take, which also means we don't know if it'll need to be in a patch or not. The Elemental changes require a patch, otherwise we'd just hotfix them in.

      Regarding this upcoming tuning pass, I wouldn't expect it to be something that solves every Prot Warrior grievance, but it should hopefully help while we look into potential further adjustments.
      Hate to say it (and hate to nail it to you Lore) but class imbalance is very very bad right now. I think most of us don't want classes that are OP or overtuned-- but we would like to see them fluid enough and competitive enough that we can feel comfortable that our individual investment will ensure us a spot and a chance at current WoW content.
      Class balance is definitely a sore spot right now, both in community feedback and our own internal discussions. We're working on it. It's a delicate thing; we want to solve the issue of players feeling like their class is undesired, but we also want to avoid the opposite issue where everyone feels like they need to reroll to whatever the new hotness is every few weeks (side note, that's part of why we do tuning adjustments in batches rather than every few days, to give things a little time to stabilize before the next round).

      I'd also like to submit the argument that, while class balance certainly isn't perfect right now, it's also the beginning of an expansion, which is *always* a bit shaky for class balance. There are absolutely outliers on either side of the spectrum, with some buffs and most likely some nerfs incoming, but aside from those few cases, our data (based on hundreds of thousands of boss kills, arena matches, etc) is showing that class balance isn't that far out of whack from how things were at the start of Legion, or Warlords, or Mists, etc.

      But like I said, we're working on it, and will have more to share soon.
       
    • By joat
      Who We Are
      Tequila Sundown is a mythic raid team formed within the <Karma Horde> guild on US-Stormreaver. Lead by a husband/wife team with high-level raiding experience dating back to WotLK, we're a "positively determined" progression team that maintains a light-hearted atmosphere while tackling mythic difficulty content. We're mature adults with jobs and family seeking like-minded players who have a passion for the game but want to avoid the needless angst or drama that often gets associated with progression raiding. We log on to have fun - so come have some fun with us!

      A Team Within a Community
      Our raid team is one of three within the larger guild of <Karma Horde>, which was formed back during WotLK. As such, the guild and Discord are very active and social. There are always people around online and in-game. The community atmosphere is welcoming and friendly to players of all levels. The guild enforces a Code of Conduct that has zero tolerance for hate/offensive speech.
      We are always looking to add players with a friendly personality and lots of passion for the game. We want players who are going to log in on non-raid nights and be down for all the other things we're into: pushing mythic+, doing world quests, PVP shenanigans, achievement hunting, hyper-competitive fishing.. there's so much to do and so many ways to enjoy the game. This is our favorite hobby and we'd like to play with you if it is yours, too.

      Progression Goals
      6/8H, 8/8N Uldir.
      We strive for a fun environment that takes the challenges of mythic seriously and giving the content the respect it deserves. Our aim is, as all mythic teams, full clear of content but with always keeping the friendly spirit of camaraderie alive. Performance matters, but so does staying positive and finding the fun in the difficulty of a raid. We do not require mythic raid experience to join our team but we do expect mythic-level dedication and accountability from all of our raiders. You must be able to take constructive criticism and have ownership over your level of play, and be willing to put in the effort to be a contribution to the team.

      Raid Days/Times
      Our mandatory raids are:
      Tuesdays 8:45pm PT - 11:45pm PT
      Thursdays 8:45pm PT - 11:45pm PT
      Optional:
      Sundays 8:45pm PT - 11:45pm PT
      Sundays are for farming the previous raid difficulty.

      Recruitment Needs
      Healer: Holy Paladin or Disc Priest preferred. DPS off-set a bonus.
      DPS: Will consider mythic capable ranged DPS.
      Interested? Next steps: 
      Please check out our team's wiki on the <Karma Horde> subreddit.
      Read the Guild Code of Conduct
      Complete and submit a New Raider Application
      Join the guild's Discord server
      Add the Raid Leaders on bnet:  joat#1832 & lambkill#1856  
      Looking forward to hearing from you!
    • By Stan
      Bellular is back with a new video for new and returning players, highlighting additional features of the game, including Professions, the Auction House, transmog, Pet Battles, achievements, events and micro-holidays.
      New and Returning Player Guides
      Part One: What is World of Warcraft? Part Two: Character Creation Part Three: Movement & User Interface (UI) Part Four: Leveling Up & Mounts Part Five: Social Features & Communities Part Six: PvE Content Part Seven: PvP Content
    • By Starym
      Method's WF and Limit's W2nd G'huun Kill Videos
      Uldir Race Day 9: Two 8/8s, Wipe Counts, Nerdscreams and More
      Congratulation Tweets, Hall of Fame for Method's WF
      Method Gets the G'huun World First! - Kill video from the stream, wipecount and more.
      Uldir Race Day 8: 4.1% G'huun Lives to the Second Week - Method get the boss down to 4.1%, Limit may have extended their lockout and we get World First and second Mythrax kill videos.
      Uldir Race Day 7: G'huun Down to 12% and Nerfed - A 12% try from Method and a nerf to the big worm.
      Uldir Race Day 6: Method Catch Up, Mythrax Video - Method and Exorsus catch up and we get a Mythrax kill video.
      Uldir Race Day 5: Limit World First 7/8 - Limit head to the top and take a strong lead with their Mythrax the Unraveler World FIrst.
      Uldir Race Day 4: Zul Down, 6/8 by EU and US - Method get the World First on Zul, Reborn and Limit catch up to them quickly.
      Uldir WF Race Day 3: US 5/8, Devourer Down - Limit grab the World First after some more hotfix nerfs to Fetid Devourer.
      Uldir Mythic WF Race Day 2: Fetid Devourer Endboss - EU guilds catch up but no one can get past the 5th boss, Fetid Devourer and 8 guilds are stuck at 4/8.  Uldir Mythic WF Race Day 1: 4 Bosses Down - Big Dumb Guild and Limit get 4 bosses down before EU servers come up, Blizzard nerfs Fetid Devourer and we get to see three WF kill videos. ____________________________________________________________________
      The gates of Mythic Uldir have opened and the US and OC servers are coming up after maintenance. Now it remains to be seen who will go in early and grab those World Firsts before the EU an Asian guilds have had a chance to enter the first raid of Battle for Azeroth. As always, we'll have summary posts for each day early in the EU morning.
      Of the possible contenders on the US/OC scene we have Wildcard Gaming, formerly Easy, who have already taken a WF in Heroic, with their G'huun kill, and seem eager to get their new name heard, so they might just be the leading US guild. On the other hand, Limit has been a dominant presence in the US/OC scene for a long time now, grabbing most WFs and being the only real competition to the EU and Asian guilds in the endgame. We also have SNF and Big Dumb Guild who have gotten some World Firsts in the past, and have been known to raid early, so the competition for those first few kills should be high. Blood Legion also seem to have returned after a long hiatus, as they will be raiding "semi-competitively" in BfA, but it remains to be seen what exactly that means.
      As always, we'll be using Method's raid progress coverage for our own summaries and you can head on over to their site to follow the race live, both today with the usual updates and tomorrow with the guild itself streaming the race live. For other streams of the progress race, head on over to twitch's WoW page and you'll be sure to find tons of players showing off their journey through Uldir.
      We'll also be using this article as a hub for all the race summary posts.

      The race is about to begin and you can check out all of our coverage right here.
    • By Starym
      Just when you thought they were gone, the hotfixes make their comeback! Today we get some Tol Dagor nerfs, some fixes and improvements for Island Expeditions, including some achievements now being account-wide and a brand new World Quest to win one! There's also the usual PvP and quest fixes, as well as another Heart of Azeroth tweak.
      September 21 (source)
      Dungeons and Raids
      Tol Dagor Overseer Korgus’ Incendiary Rounds’ damage and Blast Rounds’ pushback decreased by 25%. Island Expeditions
      A new world quest has been added to win one Island Expedition. Click on the map and set sail for adventure! Some Island Expedition achievements have been made account-wide. Resolved additional issues that could prevent players from gaining progress in Island Expeditions for the weekly quest “Azerite for the Horde / Azerite for the Alliance”. Items
      Fixed bugs that were preventing Truffles in Stormsong Valley from behaving as expected. Heart of Azeroth Ablative Shielding is no longer reduced by Stagger. Player versus Player
      The Weekly Quest "Something Different" can now be completed by participating in Shado-pan Showdown, as intended. “Something Different” now grants a 340 item level Dread Gladiator piece of gear from the Brawl Footlocker. Players who have already turned in “Something Different” this week can now complete it a second time. World Quests
      Fixed an issue where the "Pest Problem" did not count towards the Storm's Wake emissary. There are now a greater number of Ancient Texts that are “Past Due”. Previous Hotfixes
      September 18th September 17th September 14th