Sign in to follow this  
Followers 0
RyanStanley

Icicles vs. Haste

7 posts in this topic

On my server, we don't do heroic content.  So I thought I'd give ToT a try with my new build.  I am using a soft buffed haste cap of 37.52% which yields the 2 ticks of living bomb so I can stack mastery.  This seems to be much better than my last build, which was going for 50% buffed haste.  I'm at the soft cap for crit too it would appear.  What are you guys doing with the new mastery?

 

 

http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/xfqljgw9awly3ge7/

 

I realize these aren't the best logs, as it was new content for me (notice the failure on my part to realize the hunters didn't have the right pet for heroism), but the mastery actually helped me in this regard... most of my damage was from ice lance and living bomb (because i was scared to stand in place too long haha)  

 

What's the best build you guys have found for frost in 5.4?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It is very important to track temporary stat gains (trinket procs, meta gem, etc..) so that you can refresh bombs at the proper times.  

Haste affects:

  • Frostbolt
  • Mage Bomb
  • Brain Freeze procs
  • Fingers of Frost procs (a sub benefit from extra Brain Freeze procs)
  • Waterbolt (Pet)

Mastery affects:

  • Frostbolt
  • Frostfire Bolt (from Brain Freeze procs)
  • Waterbolt (Pet)

I would highly recommend Hit (15%) > Haste > Mastery > Crit

If you are going to cap Haste go to at least 48%

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You got me confused. The frost mage guide has the stat priority:

  1. Intellect;
  2. Hit Rating (until 15%);
  3. Haste Rating;
  4. Critical Strike Rating;
  5. Mastery Rating.

Crit before mastery.

Edited by Beer

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Can you tell me more about bomb refreshing for temp procs?  Currently I refresh only if it's going to expire or will prior to an evocation.  Just need to refresh on any proc?  Jade spirit count?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You got me confused. The frost mage guide has the stat priority:

  • Intellect;
  • Hit Rating (until 15%);
  • Haste Rating;
  • Critical Strike Rating;
  • Mastery Rating.
Crit before mastery.

I finally found someone who plays a Frost Mage exclusively to review the guide. I'll update it tomorrow and the stat priority will be closer to what you suggest.

Can you tell me more about bomb refreshing for temp procs?  Currently I refresh only if it's going to expire or will prior to an evocation.  Just need to refresh on any proc?  Jade spirit count?

Jade Spirit and trinket procs, mostly.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It is very important to track temporary stat gains (trinket procs, meta gem, etc..) so that you can refresh bombs at the proper times.  

Haste affects:

  • Frostbolt
  • Mage Bomb
  • Brain Freeze procs
  • Fingers of Frost procs (a sub benefit from extra Brain Freeze procs)
  • Waterbolt (Pet)
Mastery affects:
  • Frostbolt
  • Frostfire Bolt (from Brain Freeze procs)
  • Waterbolt (Pet)
I would highly recommend Hit (15%) > Haste > Mastery > Crit

If you are going to cap Haste go to at least 48%

In simC, on patchwerk, the difference between a frost haste build and a frost mastery build is about 5k. So, taking that into account, what you build should probably be more based on what your gear already is correct? If your gear has excessive mastery, you'll probably get more out of a mastery base build then a haste because you'll have less haste available than someone with more haste on their items.

Idea being this, Overall, you have 6k Mastery from items with about 2k from items (unreforged/enchanted/gemmed). Now, just guessing here, but let's say you can take away 1.5k of that mastery and turn it into haste. You then have 4.5k Mastery and 3.5k haste. Now, there is still 1k haste rating difference there that you'll need to make up before your haste will surpass your mastery.

Now, if we take the same percentage away from haste, 500, we have 6.5k mastery and 1.5k haste. 500 haste really doesn't feel like it helps us that much (maybe .1 second off your frostbolt cast? not sure on it's influence)

Saying this though, if you're going for an arcane OS, may as well build mastery since the difference in dps is minimal.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

  • SimC is virtually useless for mages (it's simply not setup correctly for mages) sad.png  We (the mage community) primarily rely on seeing what heroic raiders/benchmark setters are doing and copying them.

Stacking mastery over haste (for Frost) will not be horribly behind but you won't set records doing that either.  Haste improves our mage bomb performance, Mastery does not - and mage bomb is a large % of our damage as frost (for almost every fight).

If you don't have a high amount of Haste gear, then I would not play Frost and instead stick with Arcane.

All of what I have said is for absolutely maximizing dps.  If you aren't in a Heroic progression group then simply play the spec you enjoy most!  These differences are not game breaking.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
Sign in to follow this  
Followers 0

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

  • Similar Content

    • By tanksta1
      [H] Salvation (est.2007) is a progression raiding guild on US-Cenarion Circle/Sisters of Elune.
      Objective
      Salvation is actively searching and recruiting players for current heroic content. What we look to do in the short-term is recruit players and gear them in our farm content. Mythic + will be run as well since it serves as another outlet to gearing up. By doing this we prepare them for our long-term goal, Mythic Mode Progression.
      Recruiting for Tomb of Sargeras
      Tanks- Closed Melee- Rogue x1 Ranged- Mages x1, Hunter x2, Warlock x2, Balance/Resto Druid x1 Healers- Holy/Disc Priest x1, Resto/Ele Shaman x1

      ***Exceptional applicants can feel free to sign up even if we aren't recruiting your class/spec. Outstanding applications will always be considered.
      We are also accepting players that engage in social aspects of the WoW community such as leveling, PvP, questing, dungeon finding, roleplaying and other challenging activites. We provide monthly guild events. For example, the Tournament of Tiny Champions. It’s a pet battle tournament where guildies compete with each other using 3-6 of their mightiest level 25 tiny champions. We are expanding this extremely fun side of Salvation so that everyone can join in on some action and prizes!
      Raiding Schedule
      Our schedule is as follows. We push content three times a week for 3 hours at a time starting at 6:00pm to 9:00pm PST Tuesdays, Thursdays, and Mondays. 
      Our Raiding Requirements
      You must be able to raid all three nights. Be on time for raid. Lateness will not be tolerated. Be able to play the optimal specialization for Legion raid encounters. (this requirement is more towards the pure dps classes and hybrid classes in some special cases) Come prepared with the knowledge of the Legion raid bosses and mechanics. Have Discord app installed and a working microphone to communicate. Discord browser and phone app is also acceptable. (Note: Some of these requirements will change as time goes on. Ex: Guild Discord server.)
      How to Join
      Please sign up on our guild website at:
      www.salvationcc.guildlaunch.com Want to reach me in game? On Discord? Questions or concerns? Hit me up at:
      Battletag: Zanngetsu#1255 Discord: Tankstâ2329  
    • By Dominia
      WE ARE LOOKING FOR DPS ONLY.
      WE ARE FULL ON DK, MAGE, DRUID, AND ROGUE CLASSES.
      WE ARE ON EARTHEN RING BUT YOU DO NOT HAVE TO SERVER TRANSFER OR JOIN THE GUILD TO RAID WITH US.
      <Mythic on Mains> is comprised of raiders who value their time and enjoy playing together. The core group has continually cleared current content Ahead of the Curve on both Normal and Heroic since Warlords of Draenor. 
       
      We raid Thursday and Sunday evenings from 7:45pm-11pm EASTERN.
      Invites: 7:45pm -- First Pull: 8:00pm -- End: 11:00pm

      REQUIREMENTS
      ilvl 890+
      Artifact 50+
       
      EXPECTATIONS
      1. Be available for both raid nights and for the entire scheduled raid time (Invites: 7:45pm, End: 11:00pm).
       
      2. Let us know of scheduled absences as far in advance as possible. We have low tolerance for repeated no-shows but we understand emergencies do happen.
       
      3. Use the highest available enchants and gems in your gear.
       
      4. Maintain an appropriate understanding of your class spec, talents, and rotations. 
      5. Bring appropriate buff food, potions, and flasks.
       
      6. Review fight strategies and videos when requested.
       
      7. Take suggestions for improvement and follow directions on voice chat.
       
      8. Bring the fun.
       
      REQUIRED ADD-ONS
      DBM or Big Wigs
      Exorsus Raid Tools
      GTFO (not required but highly recommended)
       
      REQUIRED VOICE CHAT
      Discord 
      If you are interested in joining us, please post the following information on Discord at https://discord.gg/vBvaDZy and someone will get back to you as soon as possible:
      Toon Name@Server
      Class: Spec/Off Spec
      Main Spec: iLevel / artifact level / AK level
      Prior Raid Experience
      Battletag
      CONTACT INFO
      BNet: Dominia#1504 or Malgolath#1310
      Discord: Dominia#5437 or Malgolath#0468
      Twitter: @TheRealDominia or @Malgolath
    • By Nergul
      About us
      Wardance is an active raiding guild whose goal is to see and conquer all of the current content and beyond while allowing our members to enjoy a life outside the game. We have been actively raiding as a team since ToC in Wrath of the Lich King some of us have been playing together much longer than that. We are a smaller guild and because our turnover among our core has been almost non-existent, we've hardly needed to recruit in the past as we are a close group.
      We are currently looking for exceptional individuals that want to progress through current raid content and beyond including future expansions. We will be working on completing mythics and achievements for the encounters and intend to raid through this entire expansion and beyond. If this interests you please contact us.
      Recruitment Info
      Recruitment Needs:
      Tanks: (Low) Druid // Monk
      Melee DPS: Rogue // Monk // Demon Hunter
      Ranged DPS: Priest // Mage // Druid
      Healer: Priest // Druid
      Please be at least 900+ ilvl and have decent progress on your artifact weapon.
      All Exceptional!!! classes/roles that may not be listed are still encouraged to apply.
      Preferred Applicants: Those who enjoy playing the game at a high level that prefer not to raid more than 2 days/6 hours a week. The ideal candidate will be one that is actively doing relevant content in game outside of our raid schedule with other guild members.
      Schedule Info
      Progression Schedule:
      Days (2): Tuesday & Wednesday
      Hours: 8:00 PM - 11:00 PM EST
      Farm Schedule:
      Days (1): Sunday
      Hours: 6:00 PM - 9:00 PM EST
      We pride ourselves on having a minimally invasive raid schedule, however we are very serious for the nights we are raiding as far as getting things done. We would like to see members online more than simply just raid nights and often do other things on those nights even though nothing is officially scheduled. We do not plan to alter our raid times but circumstances could come up that require us to do so. Despite any changes that may occur to the raid schedule we tend to preserve weekends as they are sacred to many of us.
      Contact Info
      Nergul#1277
      Auura#1871
      Recruitment Expectations & Member Conduct
      Our reputation on Zul'jin is very important to us, as it should be. We expect all of our members to act mature, and show the utmost respect towards others, whether it be in guild or out of guild. We do not participate in realm forum trolling or epeening. We let our guild achievements and attitude do the talking.
      As a recruit, our expectations as far as gems, enchants, consumable usage and attendance is identical to our veterans. Not meeting that expectation means you have failed your application. While we do not ONLY consider players decked in Mythic Raiding gear, please do not you waste your time and ours if your main cannot out-gear my alts, there are plenty of opportunities to gear up out there between dungeons, weekly chests, LFR, and pug raiding. Do not go AFK during trash, show up late to raids, or fail to understand the basic mechanics of your class or raid encounters or you will not make it to full member status. Assuming you reach the end of the 28 day Trial period, the officers will determine whether you were successful or not and will decide to either promote you to veteran, extend your probation or ask you to leave the guild.
      Loot
      Wardance runs a Loot List system (Modified Loot Council) where each member composes a monthly list of up to 12 items valuable to their class and spec and orders it in priority of greatest value. As long as the minimum 80% (rolling 5 week cycle) attendance threshold is maintained, the highest listing of the piece determines who loots the items and in what order. In the event of ties the loot council will step in and decide distribution based on several parameters such as guild rank, attendance, performance, biggest upgrade (including set bonuses), contribution to raid progress, etc. I assure you that these discussions are well thought out and fair.
    • By Aereth
      <Tempest> of Khaz'goroth/Dath'remar is recruiting!
      We are a laid back 21+ guild based in Australia for the most part. We understand that some don't have a large amount of time to commit to raiding due to real life commitments- jobs, kids, hassles etc :P
      Because of this we are dedicated to providing a stress free raiding environment 2 days per week in addition to an active social community. 
      Check us out at discord https://discord.gg/eNn7ugT
      We are currently 9/9N and 5/9H
      Social apps are available for all classes and levels! If this sounds like the guild for you please contact us!
      Previous tier progression was 1/7M, 3/3H and 10/10H NH
      Raiding info:
      We raid from 8pm sharp server time Sundays and Wednesdays for 3 hours and predominantly use loot council for loot distribution.
      Recruitment openings:
      DPS with tank OS- who is comfortable using it (druid or DH would be great but can be flexible with class)
      A DPS shaman - ele or enh (a healing OS would be great)
      We would also consider the following dps only classes in some circumstances:
      DH
      Rogue
      Druid
      Shadow Priest
      WW Monk
      Ret Pally
      Warlock
      We will of course give consideration to those who fall outside our recruitment needs if you think you may be a good fit for Tempest.
      If this sounds like you, or you would like some more info please pst or mail Aereth (Aereth#1439).
    • By Cahones
      Threat Level Midnight is a Heroic only raiding guild, we raid Sunday nights from 7-11 EST.  Most of the guild is real life friends who at some point or other have played the game at a pretty hardcore level, but do to real life commitments have settled on limiting ourselves to one night a week heroic content.  We have a very laid back and friendly atmosphere.  We're currently recruiting people that fit into this type of play.
      We typically run a 10-15 man raid size but try to push closer to 15 whenever possible due to how punishing some of the boss mechanics are on a small raid size.  We're looking to bolster our raid roster to continue progressing through Tomb.
      Current recruitment needs:
      Ranged DPS:  Currently a large need, looking to pick up 3-4 ranged dps.  Anyone that can offspec heal or tank is an added bonus.

       
      All exceptional players with the right attitude are always welcome to join.  We play the game to kick back and have fun, its an MMO so the more people we can do that with the more enjoyable it is for everyone.  Our guild activity specifically peaks around 8pm till late night hours Sat-Mon.
      If this sounds like a good fit for you or if you have any questions feel free to add me on either Bnet(Cahones#1561) or Discord(Cahones#3167).  Look forward to hearing from you!