Stan

Developers React to Netherlight Crucible Concerns

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Players have been comparing the Netherlight Crucible to Reforging and Ornyx sat down with the development team to answer some of the concerns.

TL;DR

  • Reforging was a simple and mechanical choice of replacing worst stats with best stats on every item.
  • The Crucible is only affecting a small subset of items offering more varied situations than reforging 30 Hit into Haste.
  • Respeccing Crucible traits is generally a bad idea, because players would be able to pick traits based on perfect optimization for any given situation during raid progression.
  • Relics become Soulbound on inspection to avoid everyone porting in and out of raid to pass the relic around to see who it's best for.

You can learn more about the Netherlight Crucible in our guide.

    Blizzard LogoBlizzard (Source)

    Hey guys!

    We’ve been seeing a lot of discussion going back and forth on the Crucible lately, so we’ve had some conversations with the development team and I wanted to pop in and share a few points that came out of it.

    Regarding comparisons to Reforging – Reforging was always a simple, mechanical choice. Players were, at the end of the day, simply replacing their worst stats with best stats on every item that didn’t already have your best stats up to a mechanical limit. The Crucible, by comparison, is only affecting a small subset of items and presents much more varied situations than say “change 30 Hit Chance into Haste”.

    We’ve also seen a bit of discussion around players desiring the ability to respec the Traits that are locked on the second and third tiers of relics. We feel that the ability to respect Traits would lead to players picking traits based on perfect optimization for any given situation, which could lead to players leaving a raid to change to AoE-centric traits for the next fight during raid progression. While we feel that’s a nuisance in itself, this would also make the system feel like a watered-down version of talent rows, and would undermine the choice that is made when selecting your Relic Traits.

    That being said, Relics are items and will be replaced; we do expect players to make choices and experiment with this system. Since there is still new content ahead of us in Antorus, better Relics will be available and players who make choices they may not like now will have the opportunity to get new Relics before long with a potentially new set of Trait choices.

    As a note, we are also fine with the current state that Relics Soulbind on inspection in the Crucible. We believe the alternative of everyone porting in and out of the raid to pass the relic around and see who it’s best for is far, far worse. Players are smart and will be able to make educated decisions based on the information that’s available to them. As I said, we do expect experimentation however.

    A final note: I saw the post on Reddit laying out three choices for Relics, asking players which one they would pick -

    • Relic A : 930 Ilvl BiS main trait, 3rd BiS bonus trait, but forces worst tier 2 crucible trait
    • Relic B : 915 ilvl BiS main and bonus trait and 2nd BiS crucible tier 2 trait
    • Relic C : 940 ilvl 2nd and 4th BiS traits and BiS crucible tier 2 trait.

    The poster responded by saying the only way to know is to sim it. If you’re generally a player who simulates gear upgrades to make decisions, you’re probably going to do that anyway, and that’s fine. If you’re a player going off basic guidelines such as “I play a fire mage so I want Critical Strike” you will get by as you always do in this situation and pick what you think is best for your particular class or spec. 

    Thanks for all the feedback on the topic so far, I’ll be on the lookout for future discussions, as always.

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    17 minutes ago, Stan said:

    The poster responded by saying the only way to know is to sim it. If you’re generally a player who simulates gear upgrades to make decisions, you’re probably going to do that anyway, and that’s fine. If you’re a player going off basic guidelines such as “I play a fire mage so I want Critical Strike” you will get by as you always do in this situation and pick what you think is best for your particular class or spec. 

    That's a funny way of saying "It's not our fault."

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    4 hours ago, Yridaa said:

    That's a funny way of saying "It's not our fault."

    It isn't their fault.  They have developed a great game, and the balance is near perfect for any WoW expansion.  Get off your high horse.

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    We all hate RNG that can make 'any' item BiS, yet we also hate farming months for that one garantueed BiS item.... I doubt it will ever find a state where we are happy.

    From my point of view. It is a little something extra, I like the added trait/tree. The idea of closing the gap between best relic and worst relic (trait-wise) with this system isn't bad imo and increases the chance you find a relic that is an upgrade if your not BiS decked yet ;)

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    I don't see how people can rage so much on a rather nice system imo.

    Yes, it's random, and yes you have to farm, it has always been that in every wow xpac.

    "WoW is just a farm fest now huaaa"

    Well, i don't know, now you grind for stuff, before you had to grind for levels, gold for mounts/spells, and for powerful epic items that dropped at low rate (but hey, vanilla had no system that looked like legiondaries amirite ?!)

    We are talking about extreme optimization, and if there wasn't that, there would be another system, maybe a less random one, but that would be longer to attain (so, it would be the same, you retards). It's not their fault, because you people are bitching over minor stuff, and acting like you're all stupid with a very easy-to-understand system.

    Stop asking for a perfect game because WoW doesn't fit some kind of world in wich you wanna live where you have to farm, but it's varied, but you have to work for it, but it's not too hard, and not too long, but rewards skill and time invested.

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    3 hours ago, genbag said:

    I don't see how people can rage so much on a rather nice system imo.

    Yes, it's random, and yes you have to farm, it has always been that in every wow xpac.

    "WoW is just a farm fest now huaaa"

    Well, i don't know, now you grind for stuff, before you had to grind for levels, gold for mounts/spells, and for powerful epic items that dropped at low rate (but hey, vanilla had no system that looked like legiondaries amirite ?!)

    We are talking about extreme optimization, and if there wasn't that, there would be another system, maybe a less random one, but that would be longer to attain (so, it would be the same, you retards). It's not their fault, because you people are bitching over minor stuff, and acting like you're all stupid with a very easy-to-understand system.

    Stop asking for a perfect game because WoW doesn't fit some kind of world in wich you wanna live where you have to farm, but it's varied, but you have to work for it, but it's not too hard, and not too long, but rewards skill and time invested.

    I'm going to agree with you here. MMO's by definition are meant to eat a lot of your time and put in systems to keep you playing. MMO's are nothing but glorified slot machines, pay your 15 a month for infinite pulls on the machine. The irony is right now there is a plethora to play and seek out to build your character. It's grindy yes but there's a lot to do. Versus other expacs people finishing the content of a patch after not sleeping for a week then spending the next 5 months in forums whining that wow is dying and there is nothing to do. People complain when there isn't enough content yet complain when there is content because now there is stuff to do. MMO's are designed to take time hence grinding can be a thing. 

    However, netherlight is imo really isn't that grindy for most of the playerbase. The mythicoryouarefilthycasual group certainly but for the rest of the playerbase not so much. From classes i play and discords of others most of the tier 2 traits sim incredibly close to eachother in value. That just really leaves value on the third double relic trait that you are fishing for and you get 3 shots per relic. Most specs value 2-3 relic traits really high so odds are you are going to get a decent one. Now, you may not get absolute BIS every time you get a relic, but when you get pants or a chest piece in raid it doesn't always mythic titanforge with a slot. That's to get you to pull the slot machine again. 

     

     

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    4 hours ago, Tri said:

    From classes i play and discords of others most of the tier 2 traits sim incredibly close to eachother in value.

    And this was my initial belief, their basic explanation, and the obvious intent of the crucible, IMO.

    It adds INITIALLY a big jump, 15iLVL, and the rest of the traits come, not bringing a ton to the table for anybody, but offering something to continue to improve (aside from simple AP and concordance buffs.)  

    Min/Maxers will always be out there, but overall it's fairly a wash for everybody.  

    TL;DR - It's something very minute that buffs everybody but so little that complaints about it are pretty lackluster at best.

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    I don't understand how this is defend-able when cutting edge content is bordering (And sometimes exceeding) mathematical probability of success; then call out people being retards for criticizing the system, and then have mods liking your post for calling them retards.

     

    You just insulted the entire cutting edge mythic raiding player base. And we sure as hell don't say there isn't anything to do. We maintain at least 5 characters to prepare for the next raid, because we don't know if we need 5 rogues again or 2 guardian druids to make it mathematically probable, or whether it is 10 paladins for their bubbles and LoHs that's going to do the job this time.

     

    Good day to you, <Insert acceptable or even applaud-able insult>.

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    On 9/22/2017 at 11:55 AM, Tri said:

    That's to get you to pull the slot machine again.

    It's like Vegas all over again!

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        Argus the Unmaker drops interesting trinkets with secondary on-equip effects and Blizzard explained how they work in more detail.
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        Hey guys,

        A slightly different discussion here, but just popping in with a note that the secondary Equip effect on the Antorus trinkets that note "When empowered by the Pantheon...", such as 'Aman'Thul's Grandeur' on Aman'Thul's Vision or 'Khaz'goroth's Shaping' on Khaz'goroth's Courage will only function within the Antorus raid once it is live.

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