New Sub Rogue DPS HELP

[madmaniac 0]

Was a Warrior, rerolling rogue for antorus. Anyhow I need to get help on my dps, I am trying to use DFA then Dance, but I feel like my DFA isn't getting buffed sometimes. I run about 200 MS at all times, could this be a big problem? Also I know I don't have shoulders or Bracers/Gloves so my numbers will suffer a bit cause of that. If you guys can help me in anyway it would be much appreciated bb.

Mythic Logs: If you want Heroic, just search Shankntwist Mal'ganis

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/YBvfbHgM2Ayp1JdF#fight=1&type=damage-done

Edited November 14, 2017 by madmaniac

[Carrn 284]

6 hours ago, madmaniac said:

I run about 200 MS at all times, could this be a big problem

In short? Yes.

Long answer? Probably, yes

You'll sometimes get lucky and manage the combo, but I don't you'll be able to pull it off very often. You can try running Marked for Death if you want, that might help you

As for your logs, I'll have a look at them tomorrow - I saw this post as I was on my way to bed

[madmaniac 0]

I appreciate it, need all the help I can get. Trying to get better internet ATM so I can raid efficiently. 

[MrEdren 114]

22 hours ago, madmaniac said:

Was a Warrior, rerolling rogue for antorus. Anyhow I need to get help on my dps, I am trying to use DFA then Dance, but I feel like my DFA isn't getting buffed sometimes. I run about 200 MS at all times, could this be a big problem? Also I know I don't have shoulders or Bracers/Gloves so my numbers will suffer a bit cause of that. If you guys can help me in anyway it would be much appreciated bb.

Mythic Logs: If you want Heroic, just search Shankntwist Mal'ganis

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports/YBvfbHgM2Ayp1JdF#fight=1&type=damage-done

Honestly if you don't have the legendaries I really don't think sub is a very good choice. 

[madmaniac 0]

18 hours ago, Carrn said:

In short? Yes.

Long answer? Probably, yes

You'll sometimes get lucky and manage the combo, but I don't you'll be able to pull it off very often. You can try running Marked for Death if you want, that might help you

As for your logs, I'll have a look at them tomorrow - I saw this post as I was on my way to bed

I will just wait on your word to see if I need to just go WW monk or stay on rogue.

[Valks 2,373]

5 hours ago, MrEdren said:

Honestly if you don't have the legendaries I really don't think sub is a very good choice. 

Cloak and soul ring can still do well if he has them on some fights.

[MrEdren 114]

13 hours ago, Blainie said:

Cloak and soul ring can still do well if he has them on some fights.

I don't think I completely agree, but that's immaterial - point is I think sin would be a much better choice since it's almost entirely mastery-dependent rather than legendary. 

[Carrn 284]

19 hours ago, MrEdren said:

Honestly if you don't have the legendaries I really don't think sub is a very good choice. 

This really isn't good advice. Sub is just as viable as other specs without legendaries, just because he won't be making a rank 1 parse doesn't mean it isn't a solid spec

Hell, I played it for Mythic prog and didn't have my Shoulders until a few weeks ago

16 hours ago, madmaniac said:

I will just wait on your word to see if I need to just go WW monk or stay on rogue.

Well I won't tell you which to pick - I really enjoy both classes. If you're worried that you can't play Rogue well, it looks like you're doing just fine. I won't go into a huge amount of detail other than with your opener, which needs some work. 

A couple points:

• your Dance and Symbols can line up all the time

• Symbols should be used on cooldown
• You don't need to refresh Nightblade while Symbols is running, but ideally you recast it before Symbols comes up
• That said, you can pick up your Nightblade uptime a little. It won't hit 100%, but above 90 is a reasonable goal

 

Here is what your first few seconds should look like

Obviously you aren't running the Spectre trinket so don't use that, but otherwise your opener should be identical to this. It doesn't waste CP on Nightblade, which will stay up for the duration of your burst. I know that with high ping the DfA > Dance combo is hard to pull off, but if you spam the button hard enough you might be able to get it regularly

Note that it will change if you ever get the legendary Gloves, but for now practice this. It should be muscle memory, so you don't have to worry about thinking through the first few seconds and can just go ham.

Your trinkets and relics aren't ideal either, but they're not awful. For your relics, you should check out this spreadsheet here. You can use it to target specific relics that will be your BiS traits - traits are basically all that matters for Sub. It has weights for the Crucible as well, to help with that.

[Carrn 284]

18 minutes ago, MrEdren said:

I don't think I completely agree, but that's immaterial - point is I think sin would be a much better choice since it's almost entirely mastery-dependent rather than legendary. 

Both specs are highly dependent on mastery, but neither spec will get a rank 1 parse without the proper legendaries.

In any case, Sub is a fun and useful spec regardless, and it's completely possible to perform well without the 'BiS' setup - I know, cause I did it for like 90% of this expansion. Just because something isn't 'ideal' doesn't mean it isn't worth playing. 

[MrEdren 114]

3 hours ago, Carrn said:

Both specs are highly dependent on mastery, but neither spec will get a rank 1 parse without the proper legendaries.

In any case, Sub is a fun and useful spec regardless, and it's completely possible to perform well without the 'BiS' setup - I know, cause I did it for like 90% of this expansion. Just because something isn't 'ideal' doesn't mean it isn't worth playing. 

He's talking about mythic level though - why would you use an underperforming spec if the tools to be more productive in another spec are already there?

[madmaniac 0]

I appreciate all levels of imput, I think I will stick with the Sub spec with my rogue and just raid with the rogue, I see what my issue was with the opener, I was just following the rotation throughout. but that helps everything line up wayyyyy better.

 

[Carrn 284]

10 hours ago, MrEdren said:

He's talking about mythic level though - why would you use an underperforming spec if the tools to be more productive in another spec are already there?

My point is that I don't believe either spec is better or worse if it doesn't have legendaries.

And even at a Mythic level, no at this point spec doesn't really matter, gear has more than caught up to boost the other specs. 

8 hours ago, madmaniac said:

I appreciate all levels of imput, I think I will stick with the Sub spec with my rogue and just raid with the rogue, I see what my issue was with the opener, I was just following the rotation throughout. but that helps everything line up wayyyyy better.

 

Glad to hear it :D 

I'm on this website multiple times a day, so if you want any more advice or anything you're welcome to bring more recent logs and come say hi

[Valks 2,373]

On 11/15/2017 at 12:33 PM, MrEdren said:

I don't think I completely agree, but that's immaterial - point is I think sin would be a much better choice since it's almost entirely mastery-dependent rather than legendary. 

I'm not saying it's better than shoulders, but you can't be saying that cloak isn't good on some fights. It's amazing on Inquisiton/Harjatan/KJ. It could definitely be a good pick for OP if they had it for those, especially if they want to improve their current parses on In/Harja.

[MrEdren 114]

2 hours ago, Blainie said:

I'm not saying it's better than shoulders, but you can't be saying that cloak isn't good on some fights. It's amazing on Inquisiton/Harjatan/KJ. It could definitely be a good pick for OP if they had it for those, especially if they want to improve their current parses on In/Harja.

I didn't mean it to come off that way (although re-reading it, yeah it kinda did) - it's awesome for a lot of fights, just not what I'd call an every-down piece (or I guess to localize, um... hang on.  *google*  ah here we go) it's not going to get 100 caps. 

[Valks 2,373]

9 hours ago, MrEdren said:

I didn't mean it to come off that way (although re-reading it, yeah it kinda did) - it's awesome for a lot of fights, just not what I'd call an every-down piece (or I guess to localize, um... hang on.  *google*  ah here we go) it's not going to get 100 caps. 

Yeah, that's fair. It's definitely not a BiS, but it's not a throw away :p

[MrEdren 114]

52 minutes ago, Blainie said:

Yeah, that's fair. It's definitely not a BiS, but it's not a throw away :p

Not at all.  I pretty much always use it in m+ now, and I'm sure it'll have uses in Antorus.