Starym

Antorus M Race Day 6: Argus Mythic Footage

21 posts in this topic

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A Mythic only phase video, many Aggramar kills and Method GM Sco explains why Argus isn't dead yet in detail.

It's been a few days since we've checked in on the Antorus Mythic progress race, but not that much has happened since then as, thankfully, Argus is still alive! The big news is that a whole bunch of guilds got past Aggramar, resulting in us getting some footage of the Mythic-only phase of Argus the Unmaker, courtesy of Chinese guild Style War:

You can also follow Style War live as they tackle Argus Mythic right here:

Everything started with Finnish guilds Memento getting the World 4th on Aggramar, catching up to the standard top 3 of Method, Exorsus and Limit, followed by the above mentioned Style War, who managed to nab the Asia first as well. Bleached Bones (EU 4th)  were next on the Argus access train, followed by Alpha (Asia 2nd), ScrubBusters (EU 5th) and Easy (US/OC 2nd), and so we now have 9 guilds progressing on the probably final boss of Legion. We then have a large group consisting of 22 guilds that have downed Coven of Shivarra and are at Aggramar's door, with another 11 still fighting the Coven. Today should bring Method's Aggramar World First video, which will swiftly be followed by Limit's and perhaps Exorsus' own videos as well, so stay tuned for that.

Today also saw Method's GM Sco reveal the very complex and intricate reason why they still hadn't killed Argus, as he explains in this video:

As the second reset approaches, Method and Exorsus still have 2 days to make Antorus into quite an easy race, whereas Limit only have one to finish it all up before the significant influx of gear that is the 2nd round of clears. With so many bosses dying on the first and second days, it's at least a little bit of a relief that Argus wasn't that much of a pushover. Now let's see if he can salvage the entire raid by living a bit longer.

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Judging by that chinese guild video, he really looks impossible, just like C'Thun was before nerfs. It is really meant to kill your raid.

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If only there had been a tier before with the same balance problems so that blizz could have learned what not to do when balancing end-raid bosses ...

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1 hour ago, Baguettson said:

If only there had been a tier before with the same balance problems so that blizz could have learned what not to do when balancing end-raid bosses ...

I know I'm in the minority here, but I don't think they need or even want to 'balance' a boss like that yet - it's almost certainly working the way they designed it to.  It's supposed to be the final challenge of the expansion, not to mention being the biggest McGuffin in the entire wow canon (old gods are undeveloped and a cheap cop-out explanation for things).

Why would they want it to be steamrolled in the first week?  They're 100% certainly collecting data from each pull,  and they will absolutely know if the boss is 'unkillable' or not.  

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39 minutes ago, MrEdren said:

I know I'm in the minority here, but I don't think they need or even want to 'balance' a boss like that yet - it's almost certainly working the way they designed it to.  It's supposed to be the final challenge of the expansion, not to mention being the biggest McGuffin in the entire wow canon (old gods are undeveloped and a cheap cop-out explanation for things).

Why would they want it to be steamrolled in the first week?  They're 100% certainly collecting data from each pull,  and they will absolutely know if the boss is 'unkillable' or not.  

/signed

Fully agree. If the boss would have died, people would scream "pushover, easy, dissapointment". If the boss doesn't die, people will scream "badly tuned, unkillable, dissapointment".

There is no way to please all these whining internet babies. If top guild steamroll 9/11, that means the other normal guilds will be able to clear the content without the need for big nerfwaves. Meaning = properly tuned to start out with.

Furthermore, to cater to the top guilds while not hindering the rest of the playerbase, the endboss can be (nearly) unkillable. Making it an extreme achievement and a true race.

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1 hour ago, AartS said:

/signed

Fully agree. If the boss would have died, people would scream "pushover, easy, dissapointment". If the boss doesn't die, people will scream "badly tuned, unkillable, dissapointment".

There is no way to please all these whining internet babies. If top guild steamroll 9/11, that means the other normal guilds will be able to clear the content without the need for big nerfwaves. Meaning = properly tuned to start out with.

Furthermore, to cater to the top guilds while not hindering the rest of the playerbase, the endboss can be (nearly) unkillable. Making it an extreme achievement and a true race.

You seem to be confused between "hard" and "mathematically impossible". The other bosses are hard, and pretty fun to do (that's where the top guild had it easy, simply because when you play everyday of the week with only top 10 players and do split runs, and can field insane rosters with like Limit going with 18 ranged for coven, all very well stuffed, you expectedly don't have the same experience as anyone else), that's a good job.

BUT Argus being "impossible" means he is NOT "nearly unkillable", that means he IS unkillable.

The other problem come from the weird progression curve antorus has : this enormous jump in difficulty makes no sense, and that's also bad balance.

 

EDIT : you might also note that, although EN was absolutely destroyed by top guilds, being cleaned in less than 20 hours, people have still liked it, the MM is still seen as hard, and the tier was generally good.

Edited by Baguettson
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3 hours ago, MrEdren said:

Why would they want it to be steamrolled in the first week? 

You can have something be very hard and not mathematically impossible. You have to stop looking at things from a black and white perspective.

 

Even Blizzard has managed a few raid bosses that were indeed very hard and not impossible.

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30 minutes ago, Yridaa said:

You can have something be very hard and not mathematically impossible. You have to stop looking at things from a black and white perspective.

 

Even Blizzard has managed a few raid bosses that were indeed very hard and not impossible.

I don't think I have to do anything of the sort.  Nobody has published a proof showing that it's literally impossible.

Mythic hasn't even been open for a full week yet - I think we can hold off on calling the fight unwinnable for now.

Edited by MrEdren

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You guys really, truly, believe it to be mathematically impossible? Common... and the Sco video is a meme to all comming up with that answer. Show me the math, just a small spreadsheet will do, that serves as an argument for this statement of impossibility.

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2 hours ago, AartS said:

You guys really, truly, believe it to be mathematically impossible? Common... and the Sco video is a meme to all comming up with that answer. Show me the math, just a small spreadsheet will do, that serves as an argument for this statement of impossibility.

And dont forget that not every raid member has the phanteon trinket yet, that means that THEY ARE NOT PREPARED to face him... maybe in a few weeks, with the 20 trinkets they will be able to properly fight him

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I guess it will become easier as they get more gear. Does anybody know the best pull % for any guild that has gotten into the mythic phase?

Edited by Maxkitty

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Just need more gear and they can do it lol Blizzard can't win.  Make it too "easy" (easy said by players that'll never see the content) and people will complain.  Make it "impossible" (doubt impossible, just needs more gear) and people will still complain.  

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You should be able to do any boss with any level of stuff imo (at a reasonable level ofc). Also the excuse of "oh they need more stuff" makes no sense, because they are already very well stuffed (split runs and all...).

I don't know how you can doubt people who did the 10/11 M Antorus in less than a day to judge if a boss is hard or not.

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9 hours ago, Yridaa said:

What about a graph (totally derived from said sheet)

CFrbdq3[1].png

Lol at one's math skills for claiming mathematical impossibility based upon this. I do hope this is not all the opinion of "omg impossible" is based upon. I see that video as a joke, don't hear Sco actually saying it so himself. Math is about numbers, not gut feeling.

Very hard, yes. A huge step upwards, without a shadow of a doubt. Impossible or badly tuned, not convinced yet.

As said before, this boss is there for the race. The gear is likely no (to a very minimal) issue as with all the split runs they are most likely geared for several weeks worth of gear. Ofcourse it can turn out to be impossible (which it can, sure blizz can fuckup) I will surely accept that outcome. But for now their is little to no evidence of said impossibility.

Don't claim impossible for the only reason that it hasn't been done yet ("I bet the earth is flat, no one managed to sail across"). 

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11 hours ago, Yridaa said:

What about a graph (totally derived from said sheet)

CFrbdq3[1].png

Instructions were unclear, flushed computer down toilet, please help

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It'll be interesting.

If he's tuned for all 20 players having their trinkets maxxed out...sure, ok.   Kind of a cheap time-gate but w/e.

But if he's literally impossible until Blizzard hotfixes some things, then that's really bad on them.

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