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I've been wondering, does hitting Abathur's Ultimate EvolutionUltimate Evolution with those quest talents "Hit X targets with Y ability" counts towards the completion? In Hanzo's case, for Target Practice and Simple Geometry.

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5 hours ago, Valhalen said:

I've been wondering, does hitting Abathur's Ultimate EvolutionUltimate Evolution with those quest talents "Hit X targets with Y ability" counts towards the completion? In Hanzo's case, for Target Practice and Simple Geometry.

I don't believe so, as it doesn't count towards any other quests that I know of.

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Guest Herbert

I have to disagree with you placement of haunted mines as a bad map for Hanzo. If you build scatter arrow with redemption at level 1 you can easily clear any camp by level 7 and can easily clean up in the mines.

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I bought Hanzo with gold, reasoning "Why not?" And to my very great suprise... He's FUN. Maybe not competative, maybe not even viable, but certainly FUN. Lining up skillshots is incredibly satisfying, and rather than feeling like McGenericArcherMan, I do actually feel like Hanzo. I'm delighted.

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I would recomment people to hold off on choosing the lvl 1 talent if the enemy team has an Abathur. 
Try to find his locust in a lane. If the locust has a lot of its duration left, it means that Abathur is most likely behind the wall and you can shoot him with storm bow. The low hp warning effect doesnt trigger after the first storm bow. Shoot a sonic arrow then follow up with storm bow and try to land as many storm bows on him as you can. (Killing him is not the priority so do not try to land sonic arrow on him. After the first try of storm bow hits, leave to complete the hits on other heroes completly and then try to find him again to complete the quest. 
Altough this might be prevented by Abathur positioning himself behind but even one storm bow hit is already enough to get value from Target Practice. The dmg part doesnt scale with level so at lvl 20 its only a 14% dmg increase.

If the Locust comes late into the lane or you see that its timer is depleted then dont go for Target Practice since Abathur is most likely in his base. 
Remember you can quickly pick Target Practice by holding CTRL and pressing 1.

I dont understand why TotS, Hanamura, IS are his average maps his waveclear is pretty good after lvl 4 and if he goes after Serrated Arrows he can kill the enemy objective "boss" very fast if it happens that your team lost the objective fight. Same on haunted mines.
Even picking Explosive Arrows is beneficial because you can deal dmg to the monster and heroes near it who are pushing with it. 

I also wouldnt recommend picking Ignore All Distractions without Redemption because it will cripple Hanzos otherwise very good waveclear.
Fleet of Foot is actually a trap talent that doesnt work with Storm Bow builds. The increased range from Target Practice comes with a increased channel time which makes it impossible to keep up the speed buff not mentioning stacking it. Ninja Asassin is much easier to use the Fleet of Foot and it allows you to kite people with terrain while you shoot them with your abilities.

Edited by xevex

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11 hours ago, xevex said:

I would recomment people to hold off on choosing the lvl 1 talent if the enemy team has an Abathur. 

To quote the build description: 

"This build should never be used against Abathur; the slug can easily prevent you from ever completing Target Practice."    

11 hours ago, xevex said:

The increased range from Target Practice comes with a increased channel time which makes it impossible to keep up the speed buff not mentioning stacking it.

The channel time is slightly longer, but it is certainly possible to stack the buff. To accomplish this you will need to release the arrow as soon as the indicator reaches maximum range. If you hold the arrow longer, or if you miss, you will lose the buff.

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On 12/13/2017 at 3:14 AM, Valhalen said:

I've been wondering, does hitting Abathur's Ultimate EvolutionUltimate Evolution with those quest talents "Hit X targets with Y ability" counts towards the completion? In Hanzo's case, for Target Practice and Simple Geometry.

After several tests, I can confirm that Ultimate Evolution does not stack Target Practice. 

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11 hours ago, Straften said:

To quote the build description: 

"This build should never be used against Abathur; the slug can easily prevent you from ever completing Target Practice."    

Completing the first part is pretty much easy even with Abathur unless he stays at the base. Most Abathurs are behind walls mid map. 
Not to mention that if they are body soaking youre pretty much garanteed that you gonna get the quest all you neeed is a map awareness. In that case is mostly better to not trying to kill him making him think that burrowing will always save him from Hanzo which will help you to get the rest of the stacks easily. 

11 hours ago, Straften said:

The channel time is slightly longer, but it is certainly possible to stack the buff. To accomplish this you will need to release the arrow as soon as the indicator reaches maximum range. If you hold the arrow longer, or if you miss, you will lose the buff.

Yes, its possible, not as easy as using Ninja Assassin.

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21 hours ago, Straften said:

The channel time is slightly longer, but it is certainly possible to stack the buff. To accomplish this you will need to release the arrow as soon as the indicator reaches maximum range. If you hold the arrow longer, or if you miss, you will lose the buff.

I did additional testing on this and discovered that the channel time is not increased. 

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On 12/18/2017 at 5:19 AM, Straften said:

I did additional testing on this and discovered that the channel time is not increased.

Which means its speeds up the channel time according to the added lenght. Well thats nice. 
Ninja Assassin is still the easier one to use. I was testing Fleet of Foot in try mode on an unmoving dummy and it was hard to stack the buff if you shot the arrow at the end of its lenght or even slightly before then. I dont see it being easier on live players.

Only map i can think of where Ninja Assassin is a really bad pick is Haunted Mines. That Map doesnt have enough terrain to use. 

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Ninja Assassin is Hanzo's "In Combat" Movement option and as such I have to think it's at least a reasonable option (a ? rather than an X).  When he gets jumped on, vaulting over a wall is almost his only method of escape.  Ninja Assassin makes it possible to get that escape option back multiple times during a team fight.  Don't get me wrong, both of the other options are also reasonable and have very good uses but I've certainly seen/used Ninja Assassin to great effect.

Also I would think Serrated Arrows would get the check mark over Explosive Arrow.  Both help his wave clear but Serrated also makes him one of the best junglers in the game.  The value there is almost impossible to ignore.

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I don't think this guide does Hanzo justice. I have around 50 games with Hanzo and a 60+% winrate with him.

The ratings for some talents are not right from my experience.

Ignore All Distractions should not be recommended. It's a terrible talent that doesn't help against mercs, teamfights, and monsters. The additional range should've been +1 aa range on baseline with the talent. The conditional part of this talent automatically makes it terrible for half the maps.

Serrated Arrows though deal less damage than Explosive Arrows can do mercs. With Never Outmatched and Piercing Arrows, Serrated Arrows clear faster than Explosive Arrows even without Redemption or Simple Geometry. I'd say Serrated Arrows is definitely recommended.

Ninja Assassin is definitely better than Fleet of Foot. With Piercing Arrows and Target Practice, Ninja Assassin makes Natural Agility always available. On the other hand, Fleet of Foot meager bonuses that you have to build up takes too long and is not as reliable as a free Natural Agility every few seconds.

 

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6 hours ago, Trensicourt said:

Ignore All Distractions should not be recommended. It's a terrible talent that doesn't help against mercs, teamfights, and monsters. The additional range should've been +1 aa range on baseline with the talent. The conditional part of this talent automatically makes it terrible for half the maps.

Indeed i dont know how it get to Storm Bow build saying it has a good synergy with Flawless Technique which is bullshit.
The talent is only good with Redemption nothing else. Its nice that late game you can kill catapults with one basic attack though.

6 hours ago, Trensicourt said:

Ninja Assassin is definitely better than Fleet of Foot. With Piercing Arrows and Target Practice, Ninja Assassin makes Natural Agility always available. On the other hand, Fleet of Foot meager bonuses that you have to build up takes too long and is not as reliable as a free Natural Agility every few seconds.

Indeed, the 6 seconds of movement speed you get is just meh. Renewing/stacking it is a pain in the ***. And there are multiple talents on other heroes that are not recommended because they promote overextending, this talent does that, it never helped me. 

Edited by xevex

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11 hours ago, Guest sChUhBiDu said:

I can approve what this guy from Tempo Storm s saying in the video.  Maybe some new thoughts for you guys

Tempo Storm cattlepillar – Hanzo talent overview and rundown

He can be played as a sustain aa hero though so the thing with Redemption is not entirely true (lets ignore the fact that there are multiple other better sustain dmg dealers) aa, aa, scatter arrow rinse and repeat. 

I see his point about Target Practice (i always just finish the first part and then let the rest finish it self,im really not gonna chase for 100 unscaled dmg when i hit a basic attack after every stom bow which is 179 dmg), but in my opinion Simple Geometry is not really needed to play him as a jungler and the 2 additional scatters are "added" to the edges, making the cone even wider>which means entirely useless in most teamfight situations while the extra range on Storm Bow can secure a kill which would otherwise wouldnt be possible. 

I dont really get him, hes talking about Hanzo as if his some kind of AoE dmg dealer which is probably his worst teamfight build. 
The AoE dmg gets healed up pretty quickly unlike the single target burst from Flawless Technique which is a godsent for securing kills. Yes i know Pierce Arrows basically doubles the dmg but hitting but you miss more kills without it and its not like Hanzo needs Pierce Arrows to del good dmg.
You can still give up Dragon Hungers for Never Outmatched and Serrated Arrow so that you can do mercs quick and objectives. 

I dont know. I have very different opinion about Hanzo i dont think hes some backline poke hero, i think hes a lot like Genji but "less super hero more ninja". : D Genji goes melee for the finish with Swift Strike while Hanzo gets a Storm Bow up or a Basic attack. Ofc you cant have both a Jungler Hanzo and a Finisher Hanzo but giving up Dragon Hungers is still okay for more PvE dmg. 
 
 

Edited by xevex

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On 12/26/2017 at 5:27 AM, TSRD said:

Ninja Assassin is Hanzo's "In Combat" Movement option and as such I have to think it's at least a reasonable option (a ? rather than an X).  When he gets jumped on, vaulting over a wall is almost his only method of escape.  Ninja Assassin makes it possible to get that escape option back multiple times during a team fight.  Don't get me wrong, both of the other options are also reasonable and have very good uses but I've certainly seen/used Ninja Assassin to great effect.

You make some good points about Ninja Assassin; I agree that it deserves to be moved to Situational.

On 12/26/2017 at 5:27 AM, TSRD said:

Also I would think Serrated Arrows would get the check mark over Explosive Arrow.  Both help his wave clear but Serrated also makes him one of the best junglers in the game.  The value there is almost impossible to ignore.

I will update the Level 4 Talents to all be situational, because the best choice really depends on your build. For example, Serrated Arrows is not very good without the other Scatter Arrow Talents.

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7 hours ago, Straften said:

I will update the Level 4 Talents to all be situational, because the best choice really depends on your build. For example, Serrated Arrows is not very good without the other Scatter Arrow Talents.

The only other talent Serrated Arrows "needs" is Never Outmatched which is frankly a great talent regardless of build.  Simple Geometry and Piercing Arrows aren't really at all required for Hanzo to do his Jungling masterfully.

Still, fair enough.  It is situational, I guess the Overwatch maps (ironically enough) would count as ones where the Jungleing aspect wouldn't be all that helpful.  On really any other map though I have yet to find a situation where getting giants, knights, sappers, firebats, goliaths, goats, and shaman easily isn't amazing.

Edited by TSRD
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5 hours ago, TSRD said:

The only other talent Serrated Arrows "needs" is Never Outmatched which is frankly a great talent regardless of build.

I agree with you here. The synergy between these two Talents is strong enough that you can take them outside of a specific build. However, one may as well go all in with the Scatter Arrow build if two Talents are already invested. There simply aren't any other Level 1 or Level 16 Talents that synergise quite as well here currently.  

Serrated ArrowsSerrated Arrows and Never OutmatchedNever Outmatched are great to experiment with, as these are probably the most versatile Talents in his kit. This is why they can be seen in the less competitive Basic Attack Build as options. Upon playing the Basic Attack Build with all of its variants, one should come to the conclusion that a full Scatter Arrow Build is superior in most respects. Several enemy shields would be the main situation where the Basic Attack Build could eclipse the Scatter Arrow build via Shieldbreaker ArrowsShieldbreaker Arrows. However, the meta is not shield heavy at the moment. The meta will inevitably shift with balance changes, but I digress.

5 hours ago, TSRD said:

Simple Geometry and Piercing Arrows aren't really at all required for Hanzo to do his Jungling masterfully.

For large camps like Knights or Goliaths, Piercing ArrowsPiercing Arrows really helps to speed things up. Clearing these camps faster not only saves you time, it means that you will leave with more Health.

RedemptionRedemption can be swapped with Simple GeometrySimple Geometry for equally fast Mercenary clear times. However, you will lose the Redemption bonus upon death. Simple Geometry retains its quest bonus when you die, allowing you to resume Mercenary captures immediately upon respawn. I agree that Simple Geometry and Piercing Arrows are not required to capture Mercenaries, but they are more reliable and yield faster clear times than any alternatives.

5 hours ago, TSRD said:

On really any other map though I have yet to find a situation where getting giants, knights, sappers, firebats, goliaths, goats, and shaman easily isn't amazing.

The Scatter Arrow build has awe inspiring clear speeds. Its almost like having bribe stacks without having to farm them!

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33 minutes ago, Straften said:

RedemptionRedemption can be swapped with Simple GeometrySimple Geometry for equally fast Mercenary clear times. However, you will lose the Redemption bonus upon death. Simple Geometry retains its quest bonus when you die, allowing you to resume Mercenary captures immediately upon respawn. I agree that Simple Geometry and Piercing Arrows are not required to capture Mercenaries, but they are more reliable and yield faster clear times than any alternatives.

Redemption is my preferred choice just because I find it much easier to complete than Simple Geometry.  Sure you lose it on death but I don't tend to play Hanzo very aggressively when I focus on camp clearing.  Also while I do agree that the other two Scatter Shot talents (well Piercing is both a Scatter Shot and a Storm Bow talent) make his clearing faster, I was simply saying they were not required.  I do end up prefering Piercing the vast majority of the time.

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1 hour ago, TSRD said:

Redemption is my preferred choice just because I find it much easier to complete than Simple Geometry.  Sure you lose it on death but I don't tend to play Hanzo very aggressively when I focus on camp clearing.  Also while I do agree that the other two Scatter Shot talents (well Piercing is both a Scatter Shot and a Storm Bow talent) make his clearing faster, I was simply saying they were not required.  I do end up prefering Piercing the vast majority of the time.

What do you mean? You should finish the quest around 4:00 to 8:00. I usually finish the quest around 3:30 to 5:00.

Edited by Trensicourt

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55 minutes ago, Trensicourt said:

What do you mean? You should finish the quest around 4:00 to 8:00. I usually finish the quest around 3:30 to 5:00.

3:30-5:00 seems pretty fast to me (at least for a "usually", I could see it happen occasionally).  I've not played with it much myself but I have been watching a number of streams using him and don't see that as a time that it "usually" completes.  Still, I don't doubt it's regularly completeable by 8:00 or so.

Anyhow, that last post was more about my personal preferences.  I just like Redemption far too much to pick Simple Geometry often (I can't stand Hanzo's basic attack speed).  I've seen plenty of people make Simple Geometry work though, it's just not good for me.

Edited by TSRD

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On 1/3/2018 at 9:10 PM, TSRD said:

3:30-5:00 seems pretty fast to me (at least for a "usually", I could see it happen occasionally).  I've not played with it much myself but I have been watching a number of streams using him and don't see that as a time that it "usually" completes.  Still, I don't doubt it's regularly completeable by 8:00 or so.

Anyhow, that last post was more about my personal preferences.  I just like Redemption far too much to pick Simple Geometry often (I can't stand Hanzo's basic attack speed).  I've seen plenty of people make Simple Geometry work though, it's just not good for me.

Imo, most streamers don't know how to finish Simple Geometry easily because they swear by Q build.

Edited by Trensicourt

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      Cho'gall: the uncontested champions to provide energy to Auriel. They are a huge lane presence, combined with 8 skills in total makes them a fantastic pair with Auriel to generate energy in double. While they lack the burst of other heroes, they will be constantly dealing damage thanks to their low cooldowns and combined abilities, which will translate in energy really fast. The Cho'gall + Auriel is often a powerful combo even in rankeds, although rarely picked. Lunara: a skillful Lunara player will know how to spread her poison among various targets, giving Auriel a healthy sustain in energy, becoming much stronger at later levels. Raynor: even after his nerfs, he still is one of the best Heroes in the game for sustained damage and situational burst, which translates into energy for Auriel really fast.  Fenix: high sustained damage and exceptional poke makes Fenix a really good hope bearer, specially since his high self sustain through his shields allows Auriel to focus her heals on other allies. Valla: a combination of high burst damage and sustained damage, which makes her a fantastic source of energy, regardless of her build. Tassadar: the recent rework turned him into a powerhouse, with massive burst damage. A single Shock Ray that hits an enemy can fill over half of Auriel's energy gauge, and that's without the quest talent. In addition, with Force Wall being baseline now, he can create obstacles that Auriel can use to stun her enemies with Detainment Strike. Kael'thas: high AoE burst. Living Bomb is specially powerful since it can easily spread to other targets in chains. Phoenix is specially useful to generate energy as well when defending objectives. Sylvanas: given the right circumstances she can surpass Lunara in energy generation, if she follows the Shadow Dagger build and gets enough stacks. Gul'dan: combines the best of both worlds: spike damage and damage over time. The low cooldown on Fel Flame makes him a giving constant damage in the form of energy. The damage over time from Corruption is decent to generate hope, but only if it hits multiple targets. Cassia: much like Valla, she has a bit of everything: burst and sustained damage. If she hits at least two blinded enemies with Fend your energy will skyrocket. While the recent rework nerfed her damage in the early game, she can more consistently provide energy in the late game. Hanzo: long range poke that makes him pretty reliable for getting energy from afar. In specific maps his Scatter Arrow is insane for energy generation. Chromie: huge damage spikes with her skillshots. A Chromie with good aim for Sand Blast will fill the gauge really fast. Dragon's Breath is absolutely fantastic as well and will often max the gauge in one go if used on a crowd of Heroes + minions/structures. Sgt. Hammer: while in Siege Mode she can generate huge amounts of energy if positioned correctly. Auriel can also stay near to peel for Hammer with Detainment Strike if needed. Alarak: can potentially become the one of the strongest candidates for Bestow Hope if he manages to get over 150 stacks of Sadism. Other than that, he is pretty solid with a point-and-click poke in the form of Lightning Surge (specially if related talents are picked) and high burst with Discord Strike. Mephisto: very high AoE sustained damage. Lightning Nova can fill the energy really fast if it hits at least two heroes. Consume Souls is fantastic because it provides a global source of energy. Kel'Thuzad: potential for overflowing energy thanks to his eye-watering combos. However, this reliance makes hard to keep her trait on him all the time since he is very cooldown reliant. Orphea: in a similar fashion to Kel'Thuzad, she relies a bit too much into landing her combos to provide consistent energy, but it is still very reliable and above average. Zagara: can provide fantastic pressure with her basic attacks and abilities, with a lot of sustained damage that will rapidly fill energy for Auriel. Since she will most of the time have a Roachling or Hunter out, this translates into more damage. Zarya: her synergy with Auriel is fantastic since neither use Mana as resource, meaning less needs to visit the Healing Well. Zarya's piercing splash damage from her basic attacks also results in constant amounts of small energy that holds really well. Jaina: her potential rivals Kael'thas, with a very strong burst potential. However, this is gated by her very high cooldowns and over-reliance on the rest of the team to setup ideal situations for her damage to flow. However, if you notice your Jaina pops Icy Veins and either of her Heroic Abilities during a teamfight, swap your Bestow Hope for her.  Ragnaros: very high burst damage, although he needs to be in range to do so. However, he can be affected by Auriel's trait even while under his Molten Core. Nazeebo: I absolutely love pairing with Nazeebo for the simple fact he can make Zombie Walls every 14 secs, which is great to stun opponents with Detainment Strike. However, both his meta builds can grant a lot of energy. Malthael: provides a very large sustained damage through his trait. Not as good as Lunara's, though. Zul'jin: potentially the best energy generator for Auriel in the entire game due his Twin Cleaves (specially if talented into) and high damage from basic attacks. However, he is ranked so low because he can only be this fantastic hope bearer once he completes his "You Want Axe?" quest, which is usually late in the game. Qhira: combines damage-over-time with burst, in a similar vein to Gul'dan, being capable of giving consistent damage. The only thing that gates her from being higher is her reliance on Basic Attacks, meaning she won't always give consistent energy; but will do so in long teamfights. Azmodan: massive burst damage once he completes his quest. Ranked so low for similar reasons to Zul'jin. He is also very cooldown dependent (more than Kel'Thuzad), meaning he is unable to contribute with energy at regular basis. However, should you notice he is about to use his globe, put the trait on him. The Butcher: once he completes the Fresh Meat quest, he deals insane amounts of damage fills up the energy with two or three basic attacks. However, since a good Butcher will not engage recklessly, he will only generate energy reliably during Team Battles and skirmishes.
    • By Damien
      This thread is for comments about our Kibler's Quest Warrior.
    • By Damien
      This thread is for comments about our Gle's Bomb Warrior.
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