Amygdalla

Haste, sayyyy waaa??? (Resto Shaman)

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Haste - blink.png

This little word, and stat give me such a headache when it comes to my resto shaman, especially at the beginning of new patches that just change EVERYTHING...or does it???

 

So, everyone has all these extremely ubber complicated calculations about haste ...fancy schmancy geeky numbers that make me and my pre-med extensive knowledge on math feel like a total dumb@$$. Do you guys ever feel like that?? If so, welcome to the club...if not, well LUCKY YOU! and please HELP! lol

 

I try to follow the Haste topic by doing research on various sites, some give the calculations which i just space out wacko.png  - like a blacked out drunk - and remember or retain nothing. Some give percentage numbers which...well I try to compare with the ones who give rating numbers ...those are easy to follow....but what they NEVER tell you is that Haste and their different breakpoints depend on gear level......unsure.png well, or so I have been able to deduce. If I am wrong,  feel free to please correct me! dry.png

 

Now, how does this affect me?? Here's my battle.net armory link:

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/zuljin/Mojofosho/advanced

 

I am currently at 525 equipped ilvl. According to some sites around the net, they advise that if you do not have mana problems, I should be using my 2nd haste break point or higher (noxxic: http://www.healingwow.com/resto-shaman/stat-priority/)....wellll, I was not having mana issues and I thought this would help....so I tried that andmy healing output suffered GREATLY...went from 100k+ HPS down to about 70-90k HPS...angry.png

Safe to say, I was not amused. So I went back down to about 5% haste , reforged my mastery , and haste stats on my gear to crit..and VOILA...back to high heals..but the healing is slow now....not as fast as I would like, except when I have tidal waves buff for my healing and greater healing waves....but what about my casting for chain heal and healing rain?....

 

Someone, please help me understand this...mellow.png

 I dont want the joy of getting new gear being over shadowed by the "Oh shit, now I have to reforge and figure out this stuff again sad.png "

 

I will forever LOVE you!

 

ALSO please feel free to constructively criticize anything you might see odd or "derpy" on my toon. I am always looking for ways to improve other than what I try with my friends and guild through research. Its always nice to see other's input.

 

THANKS!wub.png

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To quickly clear this up;

 

  • Haste breakpoints are fixed values of Haste at which you get more free heals. They've been calculated for all of our HoTs and Icy Veins quotes them in rating and %. These values don't change with gear level.
  • Which Haste breakpoint you want to aim for depends on your gear level and whether you have the meta gem. If in doubt, take all your reforges and gems off and aim for the nearest breakpoint. You want to go over the breakpoint (so you get the benefit) but not by much.

I would advise that without the Legendary Meta, you go for a low value like the 12.5% one. With the Legendary Meta, go for the 30% one (since this also has a breakpoint at 30%). You can look up how much rating that is for you here (section 2.2).

Does that help? :)

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Hi Stoove,

 

Got it. I read the section on haste which to be honest is one of the best on the web in regards to approaching the topic for players. I currently have 2496 rating and I do not have the legendary meta. This is without reforging or geming for haste.

 

I tried a higher haste rating, but my healing was decreased - maybe that has to do with the fact that I don't have the legendary meta - and consequently went oom faster. However, I dont believe it was higher than 5k rating.  I guess I will wait until I can get that.

 

So far though, if I stay with 2496 Haste Rating, how much crit can I acquire? is there a cap for that or is it just as much as I can get?

 

Thank you for your help :)

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i off heal sometimes and am looking at that haste chart because i actually need to start healing better, but i dont really see a 2496 option. after 871 it kinda jumps to 5676.

 

i looked at your gear and talents and would recommend swapping elemental mastery for nature's swiftness, and rushing streams for ancestral guidance. with swiftness and raid buffs, youd only need to get a minimum of 871 haste. ancestral guidance is just a fun cooldown. it can be an extremely mana efficient way to heal the raid back up if you know a raid wide damage burst is coming in, or if everyone is in the danger zone you can really crank out some heals.

 

crit is awesome but the downside is you need a ton of it to make your chance go up, so per point of secondary stat you may get more from your gear by gemming split crit in yellows and full spirit and int in the other colors. stoove would probably know better, but since youre running amp & multistrike trinks 10k spirit seems a bit daring. i feel more comfortable mid 13k and ive still got horridons gasp.

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Hey Kitsu,

 

Thank you for the advise. When I get home from work today I will make some changes to reflect what Stoove has said in here and other threads I've read as well as what you're advising. I will come back and report on the findings <3 wink.png

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Also, a lot of really good players I play with have all advised that 9k-10k spirit is enough....so I am a bit surprised you said to go up a bit more with gemming, what's your train of thought on that? I don't really have any mana problems at 9.5-10k spirit, and while I know that spirit is the best stat for any healer, isnt it irrelevant after a certain point?

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it may depend on what content youre doing and how you play. i heal ten player and probably use healing surge too much. i like the crits. i heal with a druid who pretty much has pure output covered and a disc that provides a nice cushion, im mostly there for pure burst.

Edited by kitsu

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I usually do 10 mans, or Flex ~14 people. Currently ToT and SOO.

 

I hardly use surge, unless its a tank emergency. Mostly use RipTide on CD, Healing Rain on CD, Healing Stream Totem on CD, and my elementals  on CD for the 10% increase to healing. I use healing wave and greater healing wave as needed with the Tidal Waves buff, and then everything else is situational. I find that if I use surge too much, yeah, thats going to make me oom no doubt about it...whereas if i spread my cds and other healing spells as mentioned above, its a pretty good outcome. Usually top heals...well this 5.4 , bc 5.3 was kind of sucky for shamies as we were really mostly used for our burst heals with our healing tide and dmg mitigation totems.

 

*holy typo queen , batman! sorry bout them*

Edited by Amygdalla

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i like having a tree as the main output healer because their heals are so great when people are spread or stacked. if you and your group have something going where youre the main source of topping everyone off, thats pretty awesome and you'll probly not be impressed by the total output loss of ancestral guidance. it definitely isnt impressive on the charts, but when a couple big heals get multiplied across a raid in trouble it is pretty fun.

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I usually do 10 mans, or Flex ~14 people. Currently ToT and SOO.

 

I hardly use surge, unless its a tank emergency. Mostly use RipTide on CD, Healing Rain on CD, Healing Stream Totem on CD, and my elementals  on CD for the 10% increase to healing. I use healing wave and greater healing wave as needed with the Tidal Waves buff, and then everything else is situational. I find that if I use surge too much, yeah, thats going to make me oom no doubt about it...whereas if i spread my cds and other healing spells as mentioned above, its a pretty good outcome. Usually top heals...well this 5.4 , bc 5.3 was kind of sucky for shamies as we were really mostly used for our burst heals with our healing tide and dmg mitigation totems.

 

*holy typo queen , batman! sorry bout them*

 

 

 

I'm at a fairly similar gear level to you on my resto shaman I am currently sitting at some 12-13k spirit if I remember correctly. I can spam most heals, but I do run the risk of going oom towards the end in very healing-heavy fights.

I usually use my mana tide totem relatively early on in the fight, so that I can use it a 2nd (or 3rd) time. I usually use mine when I'm at approximately 180k mana for the first time. Even when spamming HR and CH that gets me through most fights.

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I tried going up to my 2nd haste breakpoint last night for a 10 man ToT.....disastreous. I was at 5300ish (dont remember exact # right now). I felt terrible healing and went oom fairly quickly so I had to use my mana cd's like Funq mentioned above (which i always doregardless) plus a potion...which I almost never have to use. I find that with stacking crit for "Resurgence" ,instead of haste at this point in time, my heals are more powerful. One of the main reasons my haste is as such an awkwards rating # is because that is the amount of hate provided just by gear, at this point. I am not reforging, or gemming, or enchanting for it (except for the gloves enchant bc I am maxed at mastery atm).

Maybe I am missing something.

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The step from 12.5% (first breakpoint) to 25% (second) is really huge. I'm not surprised that at ~ilvl 520 with no Legendary Meta you're struggling with that much Haste. When you get the Legendary Meta, you should be able to stack Haste as low as ilvl 510.

 

My personal experience in 10N is that going as low as possible on Mastery and stacking Haste to just over 30%, and otherwise just taking Crit, is really good. My Spirit is up quite high at the moment, but that's because I have one trinket with no mana regen proc.

 

Haste really is the best stat in terms of pure throughput, but you're right it takes a big toll on your mana bar. I'd advise trying something like a Haste/Crit build (rather than Mastery). If you're not using Ask Mr Robot to optimize your reforges/gems/enchants, then perhaps we can help you understand how to do it.

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Do you really advise Mr robot? I stopped using it because i didn't think it was as optimal as i wanted it to be. I'm trying to learn or understand how to do it on my own. It's tough, but its fun. If you guys don't mind, i would like to learn to do it through understanding it.

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Do you really advise Mr robot? I stopped using it because i didn't think it was as optimal as i wanted it to be. I'm trying to learn or understand how to do it on my own. It's tough, but its fun. If you guys don't mind, i would like to learn to do it through understanding it.

 

If you stopped using Mr. Robot becasue you want to learn how do do it on your own, then you probably weren't using it well enough to begin with.  If you know what stats you want you can easily make stat weights for healing on Mr Robot that you will enjoy.  Mr. Robot really is the easiest way to optimize your gear since it can do it much quicker and more efficiently than any human.

 

Basically, Fiddle with the stat weights and look at what it tells you.  If you don't like a specific way its gemming, or reforging, or enchanting, adjust the weights so it puts more emphasis on what you want.  Once the stats look like you want then, you save the weights somewhere for you to remember, and just use it next time you get new gear.

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If you stopped using Mr. Robot becasue you want to learn how do do it on your own, then you probably weren't using it well enough to begin with.  If you know what stats you want you can easily make stat weights for healing on Mr Robot that you will enjoy.  Mr. Robot really is the easiest way to optimize your gear since it can do it much quicker and more efficiently than any human.

 

Basically, Fiddle with the stat weights and look at what it tells you.  If you don't like a specific way its gemming, or reforging, or enchanting, adjust the weights so it puts more emphasis on what you want.  Once the stats look like you want then, you save the weights somewhere for you to remember, and just use it next time you get new gear.

 

Good point. I didnt know you could use it and manipulate it until now that you just mentioned it.

 

I went ahead and manipulated the weights....can you tell me if this is a good export? I tried shooting for the 30% haste break point, since I want to try and like Stoove advised, assimilate to a different healing style that has better throughput. I tried to also make it so the reforging, gemming, and enchanting would give me 13000 spirit as well.

 

 

Not sure if this code will take you to what I set up...let me know.Thanks!

 

http://www.askmrrobot.com/wow/gear/7bab1965-2e7b-4eaa-a3b2-c55bd42215e3

Edited by Amygdalla

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Just watch out because you have the "Total Effective Spirit" box checked. That puts your Spirit level to about 10k rather than the 13k you want. That option basically takes into account the trinkets too!

 

As I said before, if you don't have the Legendary Meta then you won't get as good mileage out of Haste as you would otherwise. However, for 3-healing most 10m Normals (especially up to Nazgrim/Malkorok) it should be OK. If you 2-heal, I'd advise to avoid Haste until you get that Legendary Meta.

 

This must be very confusing. Honestly, the best thing to do is to experiment, and to try to get that Legendary Meta. It's nutfuckin' insane, and it will completely change your playstyle.

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 Yea, you should put static spirit probably.

 

And I'm really unsure if its  "good"  becasue only you know what you want out of the stats.  If the stats look wrong (such as, I'm trying to squeeze out a bit more mastery) then you may want to raise mastery or lower other stats to compensate.

 

Play around with the weights and experiment how they work

 

Biggest thing to rememebr with gems though.  Int = 1, mastery (for example) = .51. 

 

Since there are double stat on gems then the weight on the secondaries are double when it comes to gemming. (so mastery in this case would be slighly above intellect thus it would gem pure mastery in yellow and int mastery in red)

 

If you have mastery at .49, then it would gem int/mastery in yellow and pure int in red.

 

This holds true for the rest of the secondaries

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This one seems to be a pretty consistent set up...but was not able to record accurately due to group failing to stay "grouped". Gotta love raging children in premades.

 

While I know I need the legendary meta, and I will be farming for  this, Let me know what you think about this one? smile.png (by the warcraft titans, I will get this!)

 

http://www.askmrrobot.com/wow/gear/c4087ce0-99d0-4248-89c2-84f0a897b967

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woah woah, mrrobot keeps changing the stats on me (gems reforges and enchants) and switching back and forth between optimal gear....is this a glitch?

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woah woah, mrrobot keeps changing the stats on me (gems reforges and enchants) and switching back and forth between optimal gear....is this a glitch?

 

You sure you are still using the same weights or have completely updated your armoy?  When you log out the website sometimes funny things happen with your cookies

 

If it made very small changes (as im seeing now) then its possible they had a small problem with their algorithm.  Its suppose to give you the most optimal solution from the start, but if it changes after you do it using the same weights, it may have found a better one along the way.

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After a while of using it, AMR starts just homing in on the best combinations very quickly, but usually by that point you know exactly what reforges you plan on using and end up just using it to get close to specific breakpoints (for me it's hit) and then just ignore other stuff.

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If it made very small changes (as im seeing now) then its possible they had a small problem with their algorithm.  Its suppose to give you the most optimal solution from the start, but if it changes after you do it using the same weights, it may have found a better one along the way.

 

 

It may be a glitch. I am using the same weights, as I am going to try that stats set up, first. I have the addon that picks the best gear in my bags...so when I put on the gear it chooses , log out, reload the site again, it chooses the other weapon and offhand..and i believe the bracers....back and forth because it gives me two optimal choices.

 

Main Hand   (502)
Amun-Thoth, Sul's Spiritrending Talons
Off Hand   (528)
Norushen's Enigmatic Barrier
Wrist   (528)
Bracers of Final Serenity

 

 

and then

 

Main Hand   (503+8)
Regail's Crackling Dagger
Off Hand   (528+8)
Juggernaut's Power Core
Wrist   (540)
Bracers of Final Serenity

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After a while of using it, AMR starts just homing in on the best combinations very quickly, but usually by that point you know exactly what reforges you plan on using and end up just using it to get close to specific breakpoints (for me it's hit) and then just ignore other stuff.

 

Oh wow, thanks for letting me know. I am keeping on the better stats Items

 

Main Hand   (503+8)

Regail's Crackling Dagger

Off Hand   (528+8)

Juggernaut's Power Core

Wrist   (540)

Bracers of Final Serenity

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Oh you're using Best in Bag.

 

I never really trusted that TBH..  I just picked the gear I thought was better.

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      Single-target rotation can be optimized by a CastSequence macro.
      This is two-parts and our two most important goals for the spec’s changelist going into BfA (and they tie in with each other):
      First is to add something interesting to the base rotation. As many have pointed out, Balance Druid’s baseline rotation is pretty predictable, and doesn’t offer much in the way of procs or reactionary gameplay. New baseline passive: Solar Wrath has a 20% chance to grant Lunar Empowerment. Lunar Strike has a 20% chance to grant Solar Empowerment. The goal here is to break up the monotony of chain-casting of only one generator with procs that incentivize you to use the other generator.
      Second is to make Solar/Lunar Empowerments more meaningful. The damage bonus they provide on live isn’t negligible, but they don’t provide anything interesting other than damage. It’s hard to make a damage bonus with no created gameplay feel like a bonus psychologically, when you know in the back of your mind that everyone’s damage is tuned to be similar at the end of the day. We’re trying two changes here:
      Solar Empowerment is changing into: Causes your next Solar Wrath to explode for an additional X% of its damage to all nearby enemies (also hits the primary target). This helps to differentiate the two Empowerments a bit mechanically and visually. It also gives Solar Empowerments, which are now granted by Lunar Strike, an AOE component so that when it procs while you’re AOEing with Lunar Strike, you feel good about getting and using the Solar Empowerment proc. Currently the Solar Empowerment bonus is half the value of Lunar Empowerment’s damage bonus, and scales by Mastery at the same half rate.
      Starlord talent is becoming baseline, making Lunar and Solar Empowerment always reduce the cast time of their affected spells by 15%. This is a simple and direct way for Empowerments to be felt and desired. Starlord is being redesigned into: Starsurge grants you 3% Haste for 15 sec. Stacks up to 3 times. Gaining a stack does not refresh the duration. (Tier 20 4-pc bonus)

      This doesn't instantly make Empowerments the most interesting class mechanic in the game, but it should be a step forward.
      05/01/2018 12:19 AMPosted by Cyouskin
      Fury of Elune, Sunfire, and Lunar Strike do not share the same splash radius.
      We’ve increased/standardized the splash radius of Lunar Strike, Fury of Elune, Full Moon, and Sunfire to 8 yds. Many of the 3-5 yd radius AOEs in the game started off as: Let’s make this spell effect that looks explosion-y, but won’t impact AOE damage too much, so let’s make it a small 3 yd radius. In practice, having AOE capability means players want to make use of it, and when it’s 3-5 yds it’s very difficult to and thus can be frustrating. 8 yds means you can more easily hit a basic clump of enemies on you or the tank.
      05/01/2018 12:19 AMPosted by Cyouskin
      Lunar Strike is insignificant in AOE despite having a splash mechanic.
      Lunar Strike’s radius increasing from 5 to 8 yds should be noticeable, but we can probably safely nudge up the splash damage a bit (25->33%) and see how it plays. Note that next week you’ll see a 10% reduction to Lunar Strike’s base damage – that’s to mirror a new 10% reduction to its base cast time (2.5->2.25 sec). This makes Lunar Strike’s cast time and Astral Power generation to be each exactly 50% higher than Solar Wrath, and makes it no longer slower resource generation/ramp with Lunar Strike than Solar Wrath.
      05/01/2018 12:19 AMPosted by Cyouskin
      Stellar Flare suffers from a very heavy cost. A Starfall that costs 60, plus the Stellar Flare (10), plus the fact we aren't casting a filler (8), means Stellar Flare costs a bit too much.
      Stellar Flare requiring a Starfall to be down to get a large portion of its damage felt bad – it’s a kind of weird negative synergy with both being Astral Power spenders. We’ve removed the Stellar Empowerment portion of it, and instead its damage is increased by Balance mastery (the portion that increases Astral Power spender damage), and kept its 10 Astral Power for now.
      One use case for Stellar Flare was that it can be a spender for targets that can’t all be covered by a single Starfall (even though Stellar Drift covers the entire world and pulls the floor above), and this use case pointed even more toward removing the Stellar Empowerment requirement portion of it. I think Stellar Flare is still looking for its place on the spec - we’ll continue to look for opportunities to improve/change it.
      05/01/2018 12:21 AMPosted by Cyouskin
      AOE gameplay is too reliant on Shooting Stars. Other talents do not come close to the         performance of Shooting Stars.
      Shooting Stars looks/feels cool, but provided just a little too much Astral Power. Especially considering that the talent row it’s now on (with Stellar Drift and Stellar Flare) provides no other resources generation, reducing its Astral power proc makes sense.
      05/01/2018 12:19 AMPosted by Cyouskin
      Force of Nature suffers from scaling issues. The other talents have a notable effect on Astral Power generation.
      Agree that summoning some Treants on a long cooldown doesn’t bring much in terms of mechanical interaction. It now generates some Astral Power over its duration.
      05/01/2018 12:21 AMPosted by Cyouskin
      The current rate of Astral Power generation is pretty low.
      Starsurge’s cost hasn’t been changed, but some amount of Astral Power generation has been added to a few places – Warrior of Elune, Force of Nature, Fury of Elune (now a generator instead of spender), Nature's Balance (new design). Additionally, the average cast speed of your two generators has been meaningfully sped up, with Starlord’s 15% cast time reduction becoming baseline. Definitely will be keeping an eye on pacing feedback.
      05/01/2018 05:50 AMPosted by Maruul
      And for the love of god remove Nature's Balance, I have never seen a talent that makes me more depressed. I dread the day I have to pick it because it's the best, it is horribly unexciting and makes the rotation even more wrath spam. Don't make it baseline, don't buff it, just delete it.
      Agree here. The bonus it provided ended up making the single-target rotation less engaging, even if it was sometimes nice to have in multitarget situations.
      The new/redesigned version of Nature's Balance is: While in combat, you generate 2 Astral Power every 3 sec. While out of combat, your Astral Power rebalances to 50 instead of depleting to empty. It's a combination of the live Blessing of An'she talent (which has been removed and one half folded into this one) and the new effect which removes out-of-combat Astral Power degeneration while below half, allowing you to enter combat with up to 50 Astral Power, which allows a Starsurge or Starfall on the opener.
      05/08/2018 05:18 PMPosted by Gärzen
      Welp the new build came out today and another nerf in the form of Soul of the Forest only reduces the cost of starfall by 10 down from 20. Thats the nail in the coffin right there, destroyed the rest of our niche. This was the build we were looking forward to.
      Starfall’s base Astral Power cost has been reduced to 50. We probably should have waited to make that change to Soul of the Forest along with the rest of the changes to the spec. Overall, that reduction to Soul of the Forest is still the right thing (I think many of you agree) - 1/3 off the cost of Starfall for a talent is pretty overboard – but without the context of the rest of the changes it’s understandable that it doesn’t look right.
      05/13/2018 03:53 PMPosted by Comfybundles
      Please give us a way to spread Moonfire on multiple targets.
      Twin Moons is a new talent that causes Moonfire to deal additional damage and also hit a second nearby enemy within 20 yds of that target. (a.k.a legendary shoulders) This was useful functionality that helped with ramp in multitarget situations and was also visually satisfying.
      One other change is to Celestial Alignment/Incarnation: Chosen of Elune. Instead of providing +50% Astral Power generation on Lunar Strike/Solar Wrath, they now provide 15% Haste (and their damage bonus has been tuned down slightly for now). The spec’s resource is a bit of a not-super-stable balance of Astral Power and Lunar/Solar Empowerment generation/consumption, and Celestial Alignment/Incarnation: Chosen of Elune sometimes caused resource/Empowerments overflow, a problem that a Haste bonus doesn’t have.
      Thanks for all the well-written and constructive feedback, especially from the original poster.