wow Blizzard Explains Entire History of WoW

[Stan 5,020]

Blizzard's Game Director Ion Hazzikostas, Lead Gameplay Engineer Patrick Magruder and Visual Development Supervisor Jimmy Lo go through the entire history of World of Warcraft from the game's launch date, until the newest expansion, in a 50-minute video released by Wired.

[Yridaa 490]

I don't have the time for the video right now, but I will tomorrow morning with a cup of coffee and some breakfast!

 

I wonder how much retcon they'll talk about (if any, and omit the old lore), I'll make sure I polish my pitchforks and get some new torches at the store before I watch it!

[elmurufdd 45]

54 minutes ago, Yridaa said:

I don't have the time for the video right now, but I will tomorrow morning with a cup of coffee and some breakfast!

 

I wonder how much retcon they'll talk about (if any, and omit the old lore), I'll make sure I polish my pitchforks and get some new torches at the store before I watch it!

im sure there is a good deal not really a fan of ion myself some reason dude just rubs me the wrong way when he defends decisions about gameplay changes 

 

[Badadada 184]

1 hour ago, Yridaa said:

I don't have the time for the video right now, but I will tomorrow morning with a cup of coffee and some breakfast!

 

I wonder how much retcon they'll talk about (if any, and omit the old lore), I'll make sure I polish my pitchforks and get some new torches at the store before I watch it!

It's almost solely tech-talk and - as you may expect from Wired magazine - a very generalized one. Despite it's almost hour long runtime I doubt there's any new information in the video for regular World of Warcraft players.

[Yridaa 490]

So I had time to watch it this morning and it is indeed mostly about WoW as a game rather than WoW as a story or fantasy setting.

 

It is also very inconsistent. For some expansions, new races or classes are mentioned while for others, they're completely omitted. The same can be said for some other features; Dual class specialization was elaborated on quite a bit, but the free-form versions we've had since WoD's pre-patch was never mentioned. Achievements were never mentioned either even though they were extremely well received in WotLK.

 

Furthermore, when they talk about something like Classic WoW and talk about the raids they had, they showcase raids from... expansions. When they talk about the initial vanilla races, they showcase the new models instead of the old ones. They even show the Draenei and Blood-Elves and their starting areas while they're talking about Classic WoW.

 

This trend continues on and on "We introduced this in BC!" *shows a WoD area*. Other inconsistencies are also there. Garrosh wasn't the first "big bad" that originated in WoW at all. Just because it takes them 5 years to set it up doesn't validate this error.

 

It surprised me that Vashj'ir was never mentioned specifically even though this was indeed a tech talk. Vashj'ir was a massive undertaking just by itself because of the unique underwater setting, showing off advanced phasing or anything like that.

 

Hazzikostas mentioned specifically (but loosely quoted here) "We didn't bring Garrisons into further expansions but you can still go back and do that" and then immediately talk about Artifact weapons. Well guess what, we can't go back and do anything with them except unlocking them come BfA.

 

It also makes me question design decisions that they mentioned "We can do wild things with these (qt. the Artifacts) because we don't have to bring them into the next expansion and make things convoluted with layers and layers of new systems". This is a mindset that makes you play yourself. Instead of programming something and laying the foundation of something that you can work with for many years to come, you just spend a ton of man hours into something and just throw it away after a few years.

 

Oh, but at least you can bring the positive feedback with you for the next big thing you'll be working on for a few years and then drop like a brick all just the same. You just end up reinventing the wheel each expansion instead of building an empire over a decade.

 

I swear, these devs have a fetish for pruning things until all you have to do is press 1212121212 while falling asleep.

[PatrickHenry 293]

6 hours ago, Yridaa said:

Instead of programming something and laying the foundation of something that you can work with for many years to come, you just spend a ton of man hours into something and just throw it away after a few years.

Well, the talent tree system is vastly different than Mists, which was vastly different than Vanilla, but it's also vastly superior IMO.  

Some things you dont want to keep around.  

[Rhondis 148]

Just knowing Wired I knew it wasn't going to be about the games history in terms of story or lore, Wired seems to do interviews on the design or technical aspect rather than the story, lore, and key elements of the game.

1 hour ago, PatrickHenry said:

Well, the talent tree system is vastly different than Mists, which was vastly different than Vanilla, but it's also vastly superior IMO.  

Some things you dont want to keep around.  

I agree with this wholeheartedly. Even though the Talent tree system was amazing and made you feel like you had a choice in creating a character that you want, it also had that one glaring problem that there's always that one build or route that was superior. It was nice seeing the talent tree return in a form of our weapons but even that wasn't as exciting as it used to be back when it was first introduced in Vanilla.

I actually really love the way they do talents now, the way they keep balancing them really changes the way you play the game. Albeit it may not be perfect when they go about balancing each classes talents but all throughout Legion I always had a different talent setup that kept my Enhancement Shaman fresh, exciting, and more engaging.

 

8 hours ago, Yridaa said:

It also makes me question design decisions that they mentioned "We can do wild things with these (qt. the Artifacts) because we don't have to bring them into the next expansion and make things convoluted with layers and layers of new systems". This is a mindset that makes you play yourself. Instead of programming something and laying the foundation of something that you can work with for many years to come, you just spend a ton of man hours into something and just throw it away after a few years.

 

Oh, but at least you can bring the positive feedback with you for the next big thing you'll be working on for a few years and then drop like a brick all just the same. You just end up reinventing the wheel each expansion instead of building an empire over a decade.

 

I swear, these devs have a fetish for pruning things until all you have to do is press 1212121212 while falling asleep.

I believe the Artifact system was more of a foundation for newer systems such as the Heart of Azeroth as well as a throwback system to the good ol' Talent trees back in Vanilla. I honestly don't blame them for creating new systems that were spent hours and hours into and they just toss it out like nothing. In an old game such as WoW you always have to keep implementing new and creative ideas even if they work or not. That is why we are seeing a return to Mythic+, the better improved Artifact system (Heart of Azeroth), the throwing out of the Legion legendary system and so forth. While they have proven you can actually fix some aspects of the game and make them at least bearable much like the Class halls and the mission tables there are some aspects that prove that certain systems just fail to make a good impact on the game.

Also about the pruning, it was necessary this time around. Yea, I get it. I was there. I main Shaman so when they removed a ton of my totems I was upset just like you. But after a few a months into Legion I realized how often I used some of those totems... which was hardly. Pruning is kind of like a necessary evil to get rid of old clunky spells, and this goes back to my earlier statement about the new talent system with Patrick. Even though it is not perfectly balanced, they designed the talent system in which you can add more to your rotation or take less from it. And I love that aspect, it's what kept my enhancement shaman's rotation different each time a new raid tier came out. We also starting to see some spells and abilities return such as class buffs and unique situational tools (I.E Tremor Totem). This leads me to believe that they are rethinking some of their pruning options and actually bringing back some spells that were pretty damn useful. 

Edited June 30, 2018 by Rhondis

[PatrickHenry 293]

30 minutes ago, Rhondis said:

Pruning is kind of like a necessary evil to get rid of old clunky spells,

I, for one, am glad that I dont need a bag full of symbol of Kings in order to get into a raid every week.

[Yridaa 490]

3 hours ago, Rhondis said:

Even though the Talent tree system was amazing and made you feel like you had a choice in creating a character that you want, it also had that one glaring problem that there's always that one build or route that was superior.

That didn't change at all. You take the magic damage mitigation for magic bosses and you don't for other bosses. You pick the big aoe heal for large spread out bossfights and you don't if you can stack up. You pick a burst dps talent for adds that need to die quickly but you don't for sustained fights. This didn't change. Maybe it does for the lower tier raids where you don't care, but that was still true with the old talent system as well...

 

3 hours ago, PatrickHenry said:

I, for one, am glad that I dont need a bag full of symbol of Kings in order to get into a raid every week.

Are you just as happy when they removed your Seal of Truth/Seal of Righteousness/Seal of Command/Seal of the Crusader? When they removed your Blessing of Sacrifice? Your Holy Wrath? Your Sanctity Aura?

[Rhondis 148]

11 minutes ago, Yridaa said:

That didn't change at all. You take the magic damage mitigation for magic bosses and you don't for other bosses. You pick the big aoe heal for large spread out bossfights and you don't if you can stack up. You pick a burst dps talent for adds that need to die quickly but you don't for sustained fights. This didn't change. Maybe it does for the lower tier raids where you don't care, but that was still true with the old talent system as well...

 

Are you just as happy when they removed your Seal of Truth/Seal of Righteousness/Seal of Command/Seal of the Crusader? When they removed your Blessing of Sacrifice? Your Holy Wrath? Your Sanctity Aura?

To address the first part, no no it wasn't. If you listen to a lot of the complaints about the old talent system, it was because there was always the better one regardless of what situation. There is no if's, and's, or buts. The old talent system was unique and fun but if you truly wanted to raid you had to follow the same template just as everyone else. Whereas in this new talent tree you can actually spec into talents depending on your legendaries, tier sets, and situations, and stats. Sure, there is always that one best talent setup for min/maxing but we are starting to see more options come into the fold in terms of play style. Otherwise my own shaman wouldn't have had his rotation changed at least 4-6 times all throughout Legion.

 

As for the second part, I never really played paladin. But you failed to see my point or probably didn't read most of what I said so I'll just repeat myself. Pruning is a necessary evil Yridaa. Whether you like it or not, pruning must happen. Were choices made by the dev's all good? No. Did some abilities needed to go? Yes. But not all of them. And that's why I stated later on that they were actually bringing back some abilities that had a function and was used on a regular basis such as some utilities as well as class buffs. Who knows, maybe down the line in BfA they will bring back Holy Wrath, Sanctity Aura, Blessing of Sacrifice etc. etc. you just have to have patience. And if you're playing a class that just goes 121212 then switch. That was the major issue with some classes such as Balance or Markmanship was that they were too linear and boring in terms of engaging the player along with challenging them.

 

 

[Evincare 39]

On 6/30/2018 at 9:54 PM, Rhondis said:

Who knows, maybe down the line in BfA they will bring back Holy Wrath, Sanctity Aura, Blessing of Sacrifice etc. etc. you just have to have patience.

 

Afaik there are quite a few Abilities resurrected for BfA. From the top of my head Hammer of Wrath for Ret Pallies comes to mind. I think I read somewhere, Killshot will be re-added as well, but couldn't confirm that just now. Adding to that, pretty much all of the buffs will be back - although they don't solve the 1212 problem. Just browse the BfA parts of the classguides - if you don't mind class spoilers.

[PatrickHenry 293]

On 6/30/2018 at 2:33 PM, Yridaa said:

Are you just as happy when they removed your Seal of Truth/Seal of Righteousness/Seal of Command/Seal of the Crusader? When they removed your Blessing of Sacrifice? Your Holy Wrath? Your Sanctity Aura?

If they brought them all back now, would you be complaining that they got rid of the Judgment window and current playstyle?  

I think Ret plays better as a class now than it ever did in the history I've had with it.  And it's a long history.

TLDR - like vanilla wow, it was fun while it lasted, but its better now.

Edited July 2, 2018 by PatrickHenry

[Rhondis 148]

1 hour ago, PatrickHenry said:

If they brought them all back now, would you be complaining that they got rid of the Judgment window and current playstyle?  

I think Ret plays better as a class now than it ever did in the history I've had with it.  And it's a long history.

TLDR - like vanilla wow, it was fun while it lasted, but its better now.

The same could honestly be said about Enh Shaman as well with it's really linear play style back then. Even though I miss my Flame Nova, Unleash Elements, Chain lightening etc. Enh Shaman plays far better currently than it does now, it's not as linear and requires some really good resource management if you want to dish out good DPS. But otherwise them pruning most of the totems and some of the abilities turned out to be good for Enh Shaman. My only real gripe about the prune was that they took away our CD - Ascendance - and turned into a talent choice that is pretty lack luster compared to other choices you have.

Edited July 2, 2018 by Rhondis

[PatrickHenry 293]

On 6/30/2018 at 2:54 PM, Rhondis said:

Whether you like it or not, pruning must happen. Were choices made by the dev's all good? No. Did some abilities needed to go? Yes. But not all of them.

And that therein lies the entire heart of the problem.  

Nobody will be happy 100% of the time, and its literally impossible to please everyone equally.  

When the devs listen and change something, there are cries for 'sanctity of play' like here.  When they dont listen and keep it, inevitable screams about not listening to the player base.

But i wholeheartedly agree there are some major screw ups.  Also major successes.  Clearly more of the latter or else there probably wouldnt be a decade+ long history.