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Warbringers: Sylvanas (The Burning of Teldrassil Cinematic)

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2 minutes ago, Arcling said:

Your posts are very childish. Also, did you read the book? She even executed her own Forsaken, just because they wanted to reunite with their living family members. And those Forsaken were just civilians, so not even a real threat to her.

No, she excecute them bcose they tried to leave the Horde (aka betray).

I'm not says that was a good thing to do.

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4 minutes ago, lChronosl said:

Not to mention that we are back at the "durr durr the Horde got spikes, like red and black and are ugly so they must be the bad guys durr durr"

We're not though. People are judging the horde based on their actions, not their aesthetic. The forsaken has always been shady and responsible for some really awful crimes like experimenting on people, creating plagues, attacking Gilneas etc but that worked when they were working in the shadows. It doesn't work when they lead the horde and do all this shit in plain sight. To their own people no less.

Personally i don't want the horde to be the morally reprehensible bad guys and the alliance to be the good guys because as i've stated previously, that's boring. I've been playing both factions up until now. I've seen both sides of the story, i've read the books, i've played the strategy games i know the lore of this world like the back of my hand and i have characters i love and hate on both sides. Warcraft 3 developed the story so much. It was no longer red vs blue, good vs bad. Both factions had pros and cons and i find it really disheartening that blizzard is obviously taking us back to that while trying to sell it to us as "morally grey". It's insulting and it really shows the lack of talent in blizzard's writing department. 

If this is truly their attempt at telling a "morally grey" story, well, then i don't even know what to say.

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31 minutes ago, Myke said:

Remind me, what principles did Garrosh have during his all-consuming the old god heart?

The heart is an excellent source of fibers

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1 minute ago, Demenzel said:

No, she excecute them bcose they tried to leave the Horde (aka betray).

I'm not says that was a good thing to do.

Indeed, but they didn't contribute into fighting force. They wanted to be with their families, plus some of them were already dying (Forsaken bodies deteriorate over time without strenghthening them with magic or some patchwork, as book mentioned).

 

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1 minute ago, Arcling said:

Indeed, but they didn't contribute into fighting force. They wanted to be with their families, plus some of them were already dying (Forsaken bodies deteriorate over time without strenghthening them with magic or some patchwork, as book mentioned).

 

I wasn't justifying her, I just picked up the reason

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5 minutes ago, Demenzel said:

I wasn't justifying her, I just picked up the reason

Yes, that was her reason. Not a good one indeed, as it convinced Anduin that there could bo no peace while Sylvanas lives.

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28 minutes ago, Nazamber said:

Actually...they were defectors, which is treasonous under most governments current, modern and in the fantastical world. The horde has always treated treason with death. 

Actually, no. You can only defect from the military. Witch they weren't, because they were civilians.

6 minutes ago, Liadobap said:

What about Forsaken that try to return to others and no deflecting, they also betray Horde?

Exactly.

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well this proves is it. we gonna have a sylvanace boss in BFA. thats the last nail in the coffin for those who said u dont know she burned the world tree. may i remind you that we had whole expansion for less than that. whole fireland thing was to prevent a world tree from getting burned and she goes ahead burning world tree. with this and aggressive azerite mining it is no longer an aliance vs horde thing.

i mean she kinda admitted that she is in war with living ! its like having whole past wow bosses evils in one !

she was (and still kinda is) one of my favorite wow characters (she was 1st character i bought in HOTS), i wished they made it more interesting than she going full psycho. at this point giving him grom treatment (from wod) would be stupid.

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Ppl judging already that Sylv will be raid boss forget alot of info that blizz gave. Sylv and death is biggest threat to Void, they can't control or corrupt undead. Would be possible that some void powers and corruption is just pushing alliance and all others with hatred twoard the only person that can't be affected by void. Go ahead, kill Sylvanas and then watch how world will be consumed in purple swirls and tentacles.

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Here's nobbel's video on this episode. 

As he said in this video, there is literally no way out of this one. They have two options: make the horde the bad guys or pull the old god/other third party corruption card and add story retroactively which is just awful storytelling. It's just sad really. 

Edited by Hariwald
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Wouldn't be first time. Just as they did with Grommash. He was supposed to be final boss of WoD and suddenly in mid of expansion we got him as ally against demons. Then he is hero and draenei go batshit crazy with light. Tought Christie Golden will help a bit with story writting but its just getting worse and worse. Only guys responsible for quests lore still do things right, main plots are crap.

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There has been more than a few occasions where I have questioned the direction that the writing team at Blizzard has taken. As much as I continue to hope that they don't go down roads better left alone, I am always reminded of Diablo III and the pure awfulness that we were fed after all the hype. I distinctly remember Chris Metzen stating that Diablo had the richest lore out of all the franchises and then we got Diablo III...

The point being, the writers are not infallible and they can screw up. I am not convinced that this is one of those times though. I believe there is a lot of depth here that we are simply not seeing, or are unable to see, or are refusing to see. I am an optimist usually, so I am inclined to believe that Blizzard will give us an intriguing story that will only enhance our gaming experience.

Considering how many Warchiefs the Horde has gone through, I hate to think that Sylvanas is going to be on the chopping block with all the others so I am hoping that there is a greater purpose here that we simply are not privy to yet.

One can hope, right?

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25 minutes ago, Dravixus said:

Considering how many Warchiefs the Horde has gone through, I hate to think that Sylvanas is going to be on the chopping block with all the others so I am hoping that there is a greater purpose here that we simply are not privy to yet.

Would have been much worse if they turned it into redemption story. Better to have her killed than become next Kerrigan. That being said, it's still possible to go that way, but given how SC also had Void, it's way too repetitive. Main issue is, they didn't bother to develop other leaders much. Orcs and Darkspear troll still don't have official replacements for Garrosh and Vol'jin. Only viable replacement is Baine, but so far he didn't do much. Maybe Lor'themar too, but he never showed such ambition. Alliance has it a bit better, since they've lost much less.

Edited by Arcling

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Wow. Just wow. This has to be the pinnacle of shit writing in WoW (and that's a pretty fucking high bar to pass). So the Warchief who was supposed to be cunning manipulative and "morally grey" literally just burned the tree to spite some rando sentinel that pitied her. I mean holy shit this is next level stupidity here.

Not that they could ever justify the burning of the tree (other than what was my personal only hope, a secret old god - ilgynoth type infestation that only she was aware of), but this literally went from cold calculating evil to emo child burning their toys because someone told her mean things.

Now if she was always going to burn the tree and the conversation with the elf was coincidental then the video itself is just idiotic and wrong (as well as the description which explicitly states it was because of the elf).

Ah well, another expansion where it's /ignore the entire story because it's written by 12 year olds... Guess this really isn't a game for me anymore, narratively speaking at least.

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Imo it will be crappy Kerrigan 2.0. Too many similarities bettwen this 2 chars, their story, enemies etc. Windrunner sister comic even suggest that by looking how void is afraid of Sylvanas. 2/3 of expansion will be some questionable things that Sylv will do, but culminating in her ascend to greater power and facing void with rest. Again we will see alli + horde working together until blizz create new plot. One thing that is probably most possible is that Sylv will no longer be warchief, but not neccesary by death or coup but more like Thrall "I got world to save" style.

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I have to say as a Horde player I am not pleased that Sylvanas burned the world tree with civilians inside. And with that video we know she knew they were there. Really disappointed Saurfang just lets the order happen without saying a word. Especially since he just had us save a bunch in Lor'danil. This to me isn't morally gray, murdering civilians is evil and Sylvanas just leapt off the deep end. 

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I just played through War of Thorns Part 2 and after doing so and thinking on some things further, I am a bit conflicted. 

On one hand, I am a bit disappointed at the somewhat juvenile approach to what appears to be Sylvanas's attempts at gaining the upper hand. The tactics were generic, the purpose was lacking (which could also be a result of the lackluster build up...), and it all doesn't do very much to further faction pride (the jury is still out in regards the whether or not that was the intent).

On the other hand, I remain hopeful that we simply are not seeing the whole picture. I don't need a Game of Thrones-esque story and plot line. I am even ok with a story that bridges the gap between young and mature enthusiasts/readers. So even if the predictions that have been laid out in this thread materialize into reality, if it is done well, I can get behind it.

With all that said, it all feels rushed, in a slapped together kind of way, and that worries me more than anything.

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1 hour ago, Arcling said:

Would have been much worse if they turned it into redemption story. Better to have her killed than become next Kerrigan. That being said, it's still possible to go that way, but given how SC also had Void, it's way too repetitive. Main issue is, they didn't bother to develop other leaders much. Orcs and Darkspear troll still don't have official replacements for Garrosh and Vol'jin. Only viable replacement is Baine, but so far he didn't do much. Maybe Lor'themar too, but he never showed such ambition. Alliance has it a bit better, since they've lost much less.

I do kind of feel that the Horde is getting the short end of the shaft right now.

I've been with the Horde for so long, with all of its ups and downs, it would be silly of me to abandon ship now. I'll stick with them and remain hopeful that something awesome comes of all of this.

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4 minutes ago, Dravixus said:

I do kind of feel that the Horde is getting the short end of the shaft right now.

I've been with the Horde for so long, with all of its ups and downs, it would be silly of me to abandon ship now. I'll stick with them and remain hopeful that something awesome comes of all of this.

Just wait till Sylv will unite horde and alli in last stand. Then she will get infused with some ultimate death power to save us all. All hail Sylvanas!

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As a 110% Horde fanboy I really don't like where the story is heading and hope she won't receive the Garrosh treatment, but based on the fact that she burned down the tree AND used plague on her own forces during the Battle for Lordaeron scenario, it's pretty clear to draw a line between morally gray and evil...

If "there's more to the story" actually means giving her a corrupted tag, then I don't even want to know the rest... We've seen too much corrupted characters down the line... Azshara... Arthas... Garrosh...

TL;DR: I'm really perplexed after watching the animated short and not really sure why she did not kill Malfurion herself in the questline...

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at this point story can go three paths as

1- they say its just war and ignore all the evil, which is the most unlikely and stupid one.

2- give him grommash treatment, meaning as everyone said she is immune to void and this expansion all about that, at best with some combination of redemption and we need her, she becomes the good guy, which is stupid seeing what she has done, i mean whole first WC3 was to save a world tree !! but unfortunately it is the most likely case since blizzard has done worst unreasonable plot twists

3- She becomes next (and way worst) garrosh, which is sad but makes most sense at this point, but its unlikely.

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3 minutes ago, blackstar128 said:

at this point story can go three paths as

1- they say its just war and ignore all the evil, which is the most unlikely and stupid one.

2- give him grommash treatment, meaning as everyone said she is immune to void and this expansion all about that, at best with some combination of redemption and we need her, she becomes the good guy, which is stupid seeing what she has done, i mean whole first WC3 was to save a world tree !! but unfortunately it is the most likely case since blizzard has done worst unreasonable plot twists

3- She becomes next (and way worst) garrosh, which is sad but makes most sense at this point, but its unlikely.

Plz tell me where you get that argument about world tree saving? It was mount hyjal that was aim of Archimonde, not Teldrassil. Teldrassil is just reminder how selfish and ignorant some nelfs were (looking at you Fandral). Also everyone who completed nelf starting area knows that there is corruption in Teldrassil. Burning that damn tree only hurts nelfs as other races didnt give a fuck about it.

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4 minutes ago, Erialis said:

Plz tell me where you get that argument about world tree saving? It was mount hyjal that was aim of Archimonde, not Teldrassil. Teldrassil is just reminder how selfish and ignorant some nelfs were (looking at you Fandral). Also everyone who completed nelf starting area knows that there is corruption in Teldrassil. Burning that damn tree only hurts nelfs as other races didnt give a fuck about it.

it was a different world tree but it was a world tree the same.

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Wow - so many theorycrafting going on, but I think i think people should just ignore these videos in relation to lore forecasts. Both Warbringer animated short was great so far, but try to think of them only as fancy teasers to the new expansions, rather than anything that may contain useful bits of information. These are a look back at the characters past, but neither of them had any meaningful story to tell. If Jaina or Sylvanas is about to go full evil, I'm pretty sure we will know in time.

Edited by Badadada

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