Rogue Leveling Guide

[Valks 2,373]

This thread is for comments about our 1-120 Rogue Leveling Guide.

[GeneralRhinox 0]

Are there recommendations for Assassination and Subtlety or just Outlaw for leveling?

Edited August 13, 2018 by GeneralRhinox
Typo

[Guest chops]

where have the assassination and subtlety guides gone for 1-120?

[Valks 2,373]

We will be adding guides for them at a later date, but we just wanted to ensure there was a Rogue guide to follow! I'll ping Gray and Ashine and see what the timeline plans are for the other two specs.

[7hegam3 1]

I'm waiting for this guide before starting BFA XD

+1 for assassins !

Edited August 15, 2018 by 7hegam3

[Guest Adrella]

I'm leveling my sub rogue with this guide and it's fantastic. I noticed that it has me using start Symbols of Death at level 34, but we get that at level 36

[Guest Ichigo]

Checked this for my level 42 Rogue, but couldn't find the talent Phantom Assassin available in the PvP section. Not sure if that's because it wasn't available for my level, but Thief's Bargain was unavailable for my level and still usable. Is it possible that Blizzard removed the talent without mentioning it? Or am I just not seeing it for some reason?

[Guest Entimidator]

On 8/15/2018 at 3:08 AM, Blainie said:

We will be adding guides for them at a later date, but we just wanted to ensure there was a Rogue guide to follow! I'll ping Gray and Ashine and see what the timeline plans are for the other two specs.

Did you ever get a response from Gray and Ashine?

[Guest Trose93]

Can you add assassination please

[Valks 2,373]

On 3/8/2019 at 12:10 AM, Guest Trose93 said:

Can you add assassination please

Will get Grayhound to add it, sorry for the delay!

[Farmbuyer 1]

Section 3.2.4 lists some PvP talents which have limited use during PvE leveling, " due to them not providing damage increases."  Dagger in the Dark is included in that not-recommended list, but it provides a 10%-100% damage boost to a common spell.

I haven't played my rogue since WoD so it's entirely possible that the tooltip recently changed and the [3.2.4] recommendation was previously for other reasons.

 

Edited July 7, 2019 by Farmbuyer

[Valks 2,373]

On 7/8/2019 at 12:23 AM, Farmbuyer said:

Section 3.2.4 lists some PvP talents which have limited use during PvE leveling, " due to them not providing damage increases."  Dagger in the Dark is included in that not-recommended list, but it provides a 10%-100% damage boost to a common spell.

I haven't played my rogue since WoD so it's entirely possible that the tooltip recently changed and the [3.2.4] recommendation was previously for other reasons.

 

I'll ask Ashine/Grayhound and get it fixed!

[Ashine 7]

On 7/8/2019 at 1:23 AM, Farmbuyer said:

Section 3.2.4 lists some PvP talents which have limited use during PvE leveling, " due to them not providing damage increases."  Dagger in the Dark is included in that not-recommended list, but it provides a 10%-100% damage boost to a common spell.

I haven't played my rogue since WoD so it's entirely possible that the tooltip recently changed and the [3.2.4] recommendation was previously for other reasons.

 

Hey, I've fixed the wording on that part and it should be going live soonish. The main reason Dagger in the Dark was not included in the recommended talents is because me and few others found that the DPS gain from that talent while leveling is very minor (to the point where many prefer to have the lower CD on Vanish to mount up quicker after finishing a quest etc).

Reasons for that were mainly that when leveling, you open with a Shadowstrike from distance generally thus not getting any stacks and after your opener, regardless of gear mobs were more or less dead within Eviscerate > Marked for Death > Eviscerate.

Secondly, usually while leveling you want to be pulling multiple mobs and therefore you would use Shuriken Storm over Shadowstrike.

One situation that the talent is good for is beefy boss-type mobs that require more than couple of globals to finish off.

[Qienna 0]

Why choose Prey on the Weak and then advise players NOT to use Cheap Shot when coming out of stealth?

[Snowise 0]

I'm just working through my alts leveling them with the nice XP buff "Winds of Wisdom".

I've setup my rogue with the talents given and read through the rotation and setup my bars, this was all really useful.

It would be great is there was something on the page about what weapons to use. Should it always be a sword or are axes okay to use? Is the speed important?

Thanks

[Guest Flinthorn]

These guides are great, thank you so much!

The rogue guide is missing the very helpful section that summaries the abilities gained at each level and what you might use them for.  That part is quite helpful to players new to the game.  Any chance you could go back and add it?

[Guest Slayu]

Why is there not one mention of stat priority in this guide?

[Valks 2,373]

17 hours ago, Guest Slayu said:

Why is there not one mention of stat priority in this guide?

Stat priorities while leveling don't really mean much. You replace gear far too quickly to be gearing towards a certain stat and, at the end of the day, if you get an upgrade in item level, you normally want to take it (outside of things like Azerite Gear, if there is a specific, very useful trait).

[Guest Wyr3d]

I'll put this here since the forum specifically for  Subtlety Rogue Talents seems to have vanished off the face of the earth.

Tier 3 talents for Subtlety stares that Vigor is not recommended - the reason given is:
Vigor makes the spec more forgiving regarding mistakes, but is weaker than the other two options.

Um, what?

Assassination states:
Vigor is the best choice when using a default build and offers great ease and flexibility of play.

Outlaw states:
Vigor is currently the best option damage wise, and also the simplest to use.

All three specs have access to Deeper Strategem, the talent recommended for Subtlety rogues. Outlaw states it's a viable choice, but basically sacrifices overall DPS for higher burst damage. Assassin states it can do well at high level, but is still the weaker choice.

Why exactly are you recommending Deeper Strategem over Vigor here? Am I missing some key trait that Subtlety has that the others lack making this talent somehow better? I note that Shadow Focus has also not been recommened, so it can't be due to that talent's similar effect. 

The only other possibility would be Shadow Techniques, but this passive is so unreliable I can't see why this would be enough to suggest an alternative choice than Vigor. 

[Ashine 7]

21 hours ago, Guest Wyr3d said:

Why exactly are you recommending Deeper Strategem over Vigor here? Am I missing some key trait that Subtlety has that the others lack making this talent somehow better? I note that Shadow Focus has also not been recommened, so it can't be due to that talent's similar effect. 
 

Hey, theres a few reasons as of why Vigor is not that great for Subtlety:

Most of your damage comes during Shadow Dance windows which means that as long as you have enough Energy to get all of the global cooldowns off, gaining more energy effectively means nothing for Subtlety Rogue as outside of Shadow Dance the damage is fairly low.

Whilst Shadow Focus and Vigor have sort of similar effect, the way they play out is slightly different. Shadow Focus has more emphasis on the energy reduction in Shadow Dance windows whilst Vigor allows you to pool more and regenerate tad bit more energy also outside of Shadow Dance. And as explained earlier, cause Subtlety is all about Shadow Dance windows, you want to stack as much damage into those as possible.

Shadow Focus was also the recommended talent early in Battle for Azeroth, but now as gear levels have increased and since they reworked The First Dance azerite trait, we have more than enough energy to cover all global cooldowns, even without either Vigor or Shadow Focus.

 

 

 

[Guest Wyr3d]

Hey again,

Regarding tier 2; I see what you mean with Shadow Focus - in fact, the leveling guide suggests taking that - but I think the extra damage provided by Nightstalker  - even after the nerf - is the better option, even during leveling. The sub rogue I have been leveling with SF is okay on energy, but struggling with general damage, other than when she crits.

As for the tier 3, are you saying that Deeper Strategem is the better choice for a max level, high geared rogue? But maybe not so much for fresh 120s, and/or leveling characters? The leveling guide suggests Marked for Death - although I disagree with the choice to be honest. I think in the long run, Vigor is still probably the best choice for leveling, since the extra energy can be a life-saver - notably with multiple targets.

You state:
 

Quote

Most of your damage comes during Shadow Dance windows which means that as long as you have enough Energy to get all of the global cooldowns off, gaining more energy effectively means nothing for Subtlety Rogue as outside of Shadow Dance the damage is fairly low.

This confused me a little, since without the extra energy provided by Vigor, this isn't always possible in fluid combat, notbably with multiple targets. I imagine it can be managed with periodic resting, but I'd rather move from mob to mob at a quicker pace.