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Blue Posts Roundup: October 14

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The latest blue posts roundup includes Ion's stance on World Firsts as some members of the community thought he was contradicting himself after the latest Q&A, the use of third-party platforms for community outreach, and WoW subscriptions.

Ion's Stance on World Firsts

Some players misconstrued Ion's statement about World Firsts after the Q&A and Community Manager Ythisens provided details about what he actually meant.

The World First Race is a community-created thing that became popular. It only affects less than a 0.1% of players and they design encounters to provide best experience, not with the World First Race in mind.

Blizzard LogoBlizzard (Source)

So apparently today Ion said the team loves watching the World First race. 

But yesterday in the Q&A, Ion said that the dev team doesn't care about the World First race, so if the Battle of Dazar'alor ends up with different final bosses for each faction, it doesn't matter, and it'll be up to players to decide what "World First" actually matters. (And yes, I'm also aware he said that they may end up making it so all the bosses will end up the same order regardless of faction, but they aren't sure yet)

I don't even care about World First, but isn't that like, seriously contradictory? You either care or you don't care about World First, but apparently Ion both cares and doesn't care about it in a 12 hour time frame of one another???

We love that the community rallies around World Firsts as this is a community created thing that became so popular, but when he says that we don't care about it he's just saying that we don't design with it in mind. It's a very niche thing as well as a niche type of player. We're talking about a less than .1% of players that even set foot inside the current raid tier at Mythic level that would even be competing for these World Firsts. 

Like Ion said in the Q&A we design encounters in the way that we feel would be the best experience. We might be wrong sometimes but that's the goal and we try to hit that.

World of Warcraft Forums

Blizzard uses third-party platforms to reach out to as many players as possible. Not everybody uses the official forums, some players prefer to use Twitter, Reddit, and other platforms.

Blizzard LogoBlizzard (Source)

Live QnA on Reddit, the Live QnA on twitch. Most the questions being taken from Twitter.
Can you please stop using these third party platforms for your community outreach? They are failing you. Why? Because they aren't actually the issues players seem to actually care about.
There is no guarantee on these third parties that the people actually play the game. The forums they need to have an active sub. I have noticed everytime you have one of these QnAs or Live Streams they are never actually the issues people are talking about on the forums.
And seeing that most people don't seem happy with your communication as of late why not cut out the middle man third party and go straight to your player base?

There's literally a sticky at the top of the forums where we asked you to submit questions for the Q&A.
https://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/20769766993

I saw that but why take any questions from Twitter then?

Not everyone uses the forums. Forums are a very small percentage of any user base, even WoW. 

There are some folks that use say Twitter for instance that refuse to come here, but still play the game. There are even folks submitting questions on Facebook that don't like either Twitter or the forums. Just like some players on the forums dislike Twitter, there are folks who have the opposite opinion.

My job is partly in customer service, so similar to Ythisens.

I'm not in Customer Service. 

I think there are valid things to criticize us for and in fact I support and encourage that, however it's pretty silly when someone makes a post about something that is stickied on the same page they had to visit to make their post. The same sticky that is there before every single Q&A since we've had a Q&A.

I wasn't being snarky at all. It was more of a "come on now -.-".

The difference Yth is that the people who make the effort to come to the forums to submit questions/complaints/etc. are the ones who feel strongly enough to make that effort in the first place.

Then that implies that you're saying the questions on say Twitter should be less valued when they're just as much of a player as you are. They could go through the same effort to write a tweet. I get the sentiment that on the forums you're able to articulate your statement/question better, however if you can't boil it down to a simpler question then your question is gonna have a hard time getting into the Q&A. Question cards can only be so long unfortunately >.>

Back in the day we had wowgmfeedback-us@blizzard.com to provide feedback about GM/CMs or even being able to email to a supervisor directly to its personal blizzard e-mail.

That still exists and is right here in the thread titled "Welcome - Please Read!":

What if I would like to submit feedback on posts from Blizzard employees but not post on the forums as call outs are against the rules?

If you have any sort of issue or feedback about a Blizzard employee's posts then you can submit that via email at wowcmfeedback@blizzard.com.

Did the OP consider that maybe they got an even higher number of questions from Twitter or other social media platforms?

We actually do get more questions on sites like Twitter than on the forums as in pure volume. I wouldn't say the quality is better, but there is quite a bit more there. 

No one should have to put up with that under any circumstance, it is enough to drive a person to the brink of insanity.

I cope by not letting the turtles make it to the water.

There's a sticky that also has Twitter updates pasted in it as well lol.

What's funny is that post exists because we're aware folks on the forums dislike Twitter. 

For those that haven't seen it yet, I try to maintain a thread where I post updates on the forums that are said from Warcraftdevs on Twitter. You can check that out here:
https://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/20767587764?page=1

Also if you have suggestions on how to improve that please let me know. I try to grab them when I can but sometimes I do miss them (speaking of which I just noticed I need to repost some things there). I've been throwing up hotfixes as well in there since folks requested that.

Ohh quit with the regurgitated "Not everyone uses the Forums" line.
People play the game and "refuse" to use the official forums? Sounds like a personal problem "They" need to get over. Twitter is not even third party, they are their own party. You by far are the worst at understanding best business practices. You sound like a newly hired TSR.

You may not like it but I'm being honest with you. Forums are not the most popular destination when it comes to where the game is discussed. I think forums are the best place given that a poster's ability to craft better posts is vastly superior here, but If your customers are largely in another place is it a good business practice to be where they are as well or ignore that they're in another place too? There is only one right answer to that question if you're looking at it from a business perspective.

Why do you think we also read other fan sites and third party sites like Reddit, Twitter, and Discord? Players are there. It's a simple fact and reasoning.

World of Warcraft Subscribers

The final blue post deals with sub numbers. Players have been canceling their subs for various reasons since the dawn of WoW and Battle for Azeroth is nothing exceptional. A similar thing happened during Legion, the reason being Legendaries. The team is interally discussing player concerns and proposing ways of fixing them.

Blizzard LogoBlizzard (Source)

Is it just me or have there been far, far more threads claiming to not continue their sub/cancel completely compared to all throughout Legion? Like, it's getting to a point where I'm wondering if Blizzard is worried or not. I don't want to go through another WoD debacle but I'm just personally noticing the increase in people who seemingly are done with my favorite game of all time.

This is troubling, no? Blizzard do you even care?

...Yeah, it was. Before this it was about flying and gated allied races.

Then before that it was Legendaries in Legion, etc. The list goes on for each expansion. I remember seeing people on the forums claiming that the 1.6 patch was going to kill the game because it allowed players to queue for BGs at the Battlemasters in capital cities and thus they were unsubbing, this was 13 years ago.

I don't want to diminish or invalidate anyone's criticism with this post but yes, GD has always been like this and always will.

I'm actually kind of sad to see this reply as it just feels inline with everything going on lately. shrug of the shoulders and oh well, btw we are making azurite more complicated, have a nice day!!. in this answer all I see is more of the same our way or the highway attitude from blizz. its disappointing.

...Just gotta say, despite saying you don't want to diminish or invalidate criticism, you do just that.

Sorry if that was the feeling at all as like I said I don't aim to do that by any means.

Even though we all know how GD can get, we by no means use that to dismiss any present feelings or overall concerns. We recognize everyone is coming from a good place when they raise a concern and every forum post does have a point. Sometimes the point is a little silly or we disagree with it, but that doesn't make it any less valid from that perspective of that player (even if they use McNuggets to explain it). Internally though we share a lot of the concerns you guys have, and conversations happen daily around them as well. We discuss what actually causes this problem and how to solve it. That includes fixing something if we feel it does need to be fixed.

 

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every single thing from blizzard's mouth nowadays is "we hear you, we're going to fix it" followed by complete incompetence and absolutely ZERO change. im a 14 year wow player and even im getting sick of this bfa BS. and its not even the in-game stuff that makes me angry, its these copy+paste replies that blizzard keeps spewing at us. every single question asked of them is answered almost identically to the next, without ever answering the question at all. i feel like listening to blizzard communicate is like watching a congress hearing: all vague, noncommittal replies that only serves to further piss people off. i seriously think its time for the wow community to ban together and boycott blizzard until they get their fingers out of their asses and fix this broken game. 

Edited by Demonpuke
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3 hours ago, Demonpuke said:

every single thing from blizzard's mouth nowadays is "we hear you, we're going to fix it" followed by complete incompetence and absolutely ZERO change. im a 14 year wow player and even im getting sick of this bfa BS. and its not even the in-game stuff that makes me angry, its these copy+paste replies that blizzard keeps spewing at us. every single question asked of them is answered almost identically to the next, without ever answering the question at all. i feel like listening to blizzard communicate is like watching a congress hearing: all vague, noncommittal replies that only serves to further piss people off. i seriously think its time for the wow community to ban together and boycott blizzard until they get their fingers out of their asses and fix this broken game. 

Though I agree about your point on Blizzard's non-committal replies, I think you should calm your horses and jump out of the whiney bandwagon people seem so excited to jump on to. Especially considering your age and the probability that you have been playing this game for a very short amount of time. Your, obviously, emotional investment seems more keyboard-warriory (a.k.a. bored at school, but do not worry, I am now bored at work 🙂 ) than honest (considering how often you comment negatively on these forums). 

Though the vast criticism is often justified (seriously Blizz, what were you thinking with the Az armor?), people should really get to grips with their humanity again and stop "spewing" BS at Blizzard. I am a very veteran player of WoW for more than 13 years and never ever has there been so much meaningless hate. Just go into the comment section of update posts at mmo-champion.com. 

Surely, anyone can see that this is not fully justified by whatever Blizzard did or did not do and that the vitriolic narrative of let's "band together and boycott Blizzard" is so highly reminiscent of stuff that is happening in the outside world. Just replace Blizzard with the State (= establishment parties). Hating and toxicity has become a norm on social networks and forums (especially on gaming websites or FB pages/groups - literally every FB post by UniLad Gaming for example has a highly liked comment which says something along the lines of "company keeps screwing with its gamers, let's band together". Yeah, sure...). And I find it very regrettable people just keep being ignorant of the fact that Blizzard (and other similar companies) are obviously trying. The feck, wouldn't you be passionate about your work at Blizzard if you were there? Heck yes. So they are as well. 

I obviously still want to thank all the constructive critics, because they give very valuable feedback to Blizzard and it is very important that there is this a community "Watchdog" on Blizzard's work. Just please try to do your best to dissociate yourselves from the toxic masses. 

P.S. This is not to justify Blizzard's recent failings in BFA, only to shake the insanity out of the raging crowds.

 

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4 hours ago, Gilifire said:

Though I agree about your point on Blizzard's non-committal replies, I think you should calm your horses and jump out of the whiney bandwagon people seem so excited to jump on to. Especially considering your age and the probability that you have been playing this game for a very short amount of time. Your, obviously, emotional investment seems more keyboard-warriory (a.k.a. bored at school, but do not worry, I am now bored at work 🙂 ) than honest (considering how often you comment negatively on these forums). 

I believe that by "14 year wow player" meant "playing wow for 14 years".

Or he'd have written "14 years OLD wow player"

Edited by Baguettson

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10 hours ago, Gilifire said:

Though I agree about your point on Blizzard's non-committal replies, I think you should calm your horses and jump out of the whiney bandwagon people seem so excited to jump on to. Especially considering your age and the probability that you have been playing this game for a very short amount of time. Your, obviously, emotional investment seems more keyboard-warriory (a.k.a. bored at school, but do not worry, I am now bored at work 🙂 ) than honest (considering how often you comment negatively on these forums). 

Though the vast criticism is often justified (seriously Blizz, what were you thinking with the Az armor?), people should really get to grips with their humanity again and stop "spewing" BS at Blizzard. I am a very veteran player of WoW for more than 13 years and never ever has there been so much meaningless hate. Just go into the comment section of update posts at mmo-champion.com. 

Surely, anyone can see that this is not fully justified by whatever Blizzard did or did not do and that the vitriolic narrative of let's "band together and boycott Blizzard" is so highly reminiscent of stuff that is happening in the outside world. Just replace Blizzard with the State (= establishment parties). Hating and toxicity has become a norm on social networks and forums (especially on gaming websites or FB pages/groups - literally every FB post by UniLad Gaming for example has a highly liked comment which says something along the lines of "company keeps screwing with its gamers, let's band together". Yeah, sure...). And I find it very regrettable people just keep being ignorant of the fact that Blizzard (and other similar companies) are obviously trying. The feck, wouldn't you be passionate about your work at Blizzard if you were there? Heck yes. So they are as well. 

I obviously still want to thank all the constructive critics, because they give very valuable feedback to Blizzard and it is very important that there is this a community "Watchdog" on Blizzard's work. Just please try to do your best to dissociate yourselves from the toxic masses. 

P.S. This is not to justify Blizzard's recent failings in BFA, only to shake the insanity out of the raging crowds.

 

ive been playing for 14 years, my guild switched from EQ to Wow right after launch. this game has gotten me through eight years of military service, two undergrad degrees and now a grad degree. to say its been a big part of my life would be an understatement. never once have i ever jumped on the blizzard-hate bandwagon, just the opposite in fact. ive been defending blizzard and wow from the haters for years, and bfa is no different. 

your condescending tone and complete and utter dismissal of my feelings and opinions, as though they are somehow invalid because they dont line up with yours, is literally exactly what blizzard does. you try to pretend like im some jerk going around screaming and kicking and threatening to unsub if "x" doesnt change, and nothing could be further from the truth. this game is a part of my life and i love it, i dont want to stop playing and i dont want to see it burn to the ground, but at some point a community has to say enough is enough. i didnt give them my hard earned cash just so i could be given this garbage pail of bullshit, wrapped in a pretty bow, being promised that inside are sugar cookies, but instead its always just more shit. 

blizzard is a multi-billion dollar company who made $200 million from bfa pre-purchase sales alone, on top of $30-50 million a month in sub fees. they are not some indie company with no resources or structure. they have all of the support available to them that they could ever need, and yet nothing is being changed. we are now two months into bfa, and what have they done to fix what is clearly causing mass hatred? absolutely nothing, and that is unacceptable. not one person out there can defend blizzard when they take no actions whatsoever to fix the smoke and mirrors that they suckered every one of us into buying. 

dont try to talk down to me boy. i accomplished more before i was thirty than you will your entire life. 

Edited by Demonpuke
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14 hours ago, Demonpuke said:

ive been playing for 14 years, my guild switched from EQ to Wow right after launch. this game has gotten me through eight years of military service, two undergrad degrees and now a grad degree. to say its been a big part of my life would be an understatement. never once have i ever jumped on the blizzard-hate bandwagon, just the opposite in fact. ive been defending blizzard and wow from the haters for years, and bfa is no different. 

your condescending tone and complete and utter dismissal of my feelings and opinions, as though they are somehow invalid because they dont line up with yours, is literally exactly what blizzard does. you try to pretend like im some jerk going around screaming and kicking and threatening to unsub if "x" doesnt change, and nothing could be further from the truth. this game is a part of my life and i love it, i dont want to stop playing and i dont want to see it burn to the ground, but at some point a community has to say enough is enough. i didnt give them my hard earned cash just so i could be given this garbage pail of bullshit, wrapped in a pretty bow, being promised that inside are sugar cookies, but instead its always just more shit. 

blizzard is a multi-billion dollar company who made $200 million from bfa pre-purchase sales alone, on top of $30-50 million a month in sub fees. they are not some indie company with no resources or structure. they have all of the support available to them that they could ever need, and yet nothing is being changed. we are now two months into bfa, and what have they done to fix what is clearly causing mass hatred? absolutely nothing, and that is unacceptable. not one person out there can defend blizzard when they take no actions whatsoever to fix the smoke and mirrors that they suckered every one of us into buying. 

dont try to talk down to me boy. i accomplished more before i was thirty than you will your entire life. 

Okay, my point stands. In my view, your emotionally invested response resembles more of an outlash at someone who has not shown you respect you believe you deserve (which I do partially understand given the circumstances) than a constructive feedback for Blizzard. And this is how the "hate-wagon" passengers appear to behave (at least on mmo-champ) - OMFG Blizz is not making the game based on how we (= but really I mean "I") want it - they are clearly disrespecting me as a customer, **** greedy corp... Sure, shouting angry and clearly hateful things at Blizz and Ion and assuming the worst things of them is very respectful and establishes a nice vendor-client relationship. So more or less this post does the opposite of invalidating my points in my initial post. 

However, I sincerely apologize for the condescending tone. And obviously for the evidently "too quick to assume" that you are 14 year old instead of an actual WoW veteran. And again, I sincerely congratulate you on your accomplishments. I truly do understand your care and passion about the game. After all, I am also a veteran and I love WoW more than any other game. I also agree that Blizzard would not lose much but actually GAIN A LOT by openly admitting certain mistakes in BFA's design and then working on improving them. Scrapping AZ is obviously not an option, but I would definitely appreciate more of admission and transparency.

EDIT: But overall, whatever. I do not think it is worth arguing about this, especially on forums where our (or at least my) tendency to change views is very low. In bits I agree with you, but I simply find the form more damaging than helpful and coming from a feeling of strong entitlement rather than understanding (I am aware you simply feel "enough is enough").

Edited by Gilifire

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