Stan

Azerite System & Reforging

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A roundup of blue posts dealing with the cost of Azerite Reforging.

  • The cost of reforging quickly ramps up if you decide to reset your gear way too often. It's because Azerite Reforging isn't intended for seamless switching between specializations.
  • You're supposed to carry multiple pieces of Azerite gear for off-specs, similar to how sets were handled in the past.
  • The problem with the current Azerite system is that items are bound to specific specializations as opposed to sets used in Legion and earlier. Blizzard considers this a downside of the system.

Do you think the cost of reforging is too high or do you simply carry multiple pieces of gear in your inventory? Let us know in the comments!

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Players that switch between tank and dps find their azerite armor reforge can become excessively expensive. So the question is why does blizz punish those who want to be both? Right now it would cost 640g to reforge one item. Why blizz; Would it not be better for players to respect gear often? Being locked to on spec gear is closing opportunities. Sometimes Tank and Healers need a break. Tanks don’t really work in pvp because of the nerf on damage. Healers get harassed for players dying, even though they cant heal everyone. It should be easy and cost effective to switch; not this accelerating cost for multiple reforging. 640g is way beyond excessive considering it starts off at 5g then doubles every time a player reforges. This is not the first post on this issue nor do I think it will be the last. So why is blizz devs punishing those who have multiple play styles? I think it shows the skill of a players to be able to play all specs. The ability to fit the need of a group should not be punish but celebrated. With current azerite powers, when players switch from dps to tank or dps to healer they lose ring functions without reforging or carrying 2 or more gear sets in their bags. Why not just create gear the switches between specs?

I just keep a separate set for my other spec(s) since the pieces tend to be better for one or the other. So while I may be a little worse since I’m not perfectly itemized for one, once I organized things I had no issues switching roles.

At least I don’t have to have a giant pile of items to swap to like I did in the past.

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I just keep a separate set for my other spec(s) since the pieces tend to be better for one or the other.

I do this as well. I keep a set for each spec even though I’m likely to only ever use two.

It’s by no means ideal at least from my perspective, but I just treat it like we’ve always done in the past with managing multiple sets. So to be honest I notice very little difference gear maintenance wise other than having to figure out which pieces are better offspec wise when it comes to Azerite traits as its a spec I don’t prioritize as much as my main spec.

It’s definitely a downside to the system and I think we can all agree on that but I don’t see it as a major issue.

If you’re trying to keep using the same pieces for two specs and you’re not liking the cost to reforge them, then you should rethink how you’re handling the pieces and the system itself. You’re supposed to keep multiple items for different setups with different traits. I’ve reforged maybe 3 or 4 times this entire expansion so far while maintaining the ability to play all 3 roles of my class and keeping gear for those specs.

The Azerite system totally encourages that, though. Unless you are a player that does not care about the traits other than the ones you have on it is in your best interest to hold on to gear with different traits, especially when balance changes happen.

I care about the traits but if a hotfix makes what I have worse and something I tossed better AND it’s not just a tiny difference then I’ll just restore that item. This has only happened a couple of times over many years of playing. I also have bank space and often pile up things I feel are important until I sort through them and then do a mass bank-space-cleansing.

A lot of changes just come with patches though and that likely means new gear, new sources, and higher level stuff so unless it’s a huge deal I’ll just get the new stuff.

Fair enough, everyone handles gear and what they decide to keep differently. I didn’t necessarily think that you specifically don’t care about the traits, was more of a general statement (though I did say “you”)

But here are some reasons I can think of for holding on to Azerite gear

  • Balance changes, as mentioned
  • PVP - and a lot of people keep multiple pieces just to swap out in PVP based on what they are playing as and who or what they are playing with against, in some ways the traits can be as effective as talents are so keeping a choice and being dynamic is important
  • Doing different PVE content - farming, M+, raiding, a lot of times different traits can be ideal enough to hold on to even if you don’t use them for everything

So I don’t think it’s necessarily just about switching specs and having traits available for the other specs. I think in some ways Azerite has exponentially increased the gear that some players hold on to throughout an expansion or a content patch.

It might be viewed as a player-created problem but I do think the system promotes it in a lot of ways. It’s kind of like having talents in our bags, instead of its own interface like talents have or glyphs had in the past.

I can see what you are saying that you feel there is more pressure to keep the gear but I don’t feel it’s too different from the past. If I was aiming to min-max in all situations then I’d expect to be hanging on to more gear but as I mentioned earlier if there is only a small to tiny percentage difference then I stick with one and clear up the space. Do you keep gear even if it’s a .1% difference? Where is the breaking point for your play style? With the current 30 slot bags that are available, how much empty space do you tend to have?

And something that isn’t directed at you Xoja but some others seem to just be asking for why we are okay with needing multiple pieces per slot at all and creating ‘clutter’. This is my personal stance, but I’d say it feels like just a part of an MMO in that some items are better than others. If we were to simplify it we could just remove stats and have items that are ‘average’, ‘good’, or ‘best’. If the item is ‘best’ it’s the best, period. Then that item can degrade to ‘good’ when a new ‘best’ is available from new content. This would cover the bag clutter and simplify things but I don’t think it’d feel fun.

It’s ok to have some items to be better than others, but it’s not ok to bind item to specific spec, especially when those slots were usable for all specs for many years before BFA. This is the problem Blizzard refuses to accept and fix.

How would you treat a piece of gear that has like heavy crit and is far and away the best for one spec and definitely the worst for another?

It still gives you some benefit, even if it’s smaller, unlike many azerite traits that only work for one spec, and give nothing to other. If traits were switching with spec, that would be non issue…

Azerite gear still comes some benefit even if 1 trait isn’t active.

Juggling three secondary stats is way different than juggling dozens of azerite traits.

So at a base level you feel the system is just too complicated and it would better to simplify it?

Anyone would, because the reforge cost really is outrageous.

My question is more: Why do you have a reforge system you don’t want people to use?

Sometimes you make a mistake. Sometimes a piece drops that is great for one spec and you can respec something you have to work for another. Have you run into these situations at all? Or something else?

Just want to thank blizzard Community Managers for participation in this discussion. This community benefits from user input and the input from blizzard.

We appreciate your input and while we may not completely agree at times, it definitely helps to understand where you are coming from. ?

I’m allowed to wonder why the reforge cost is so high, though.

It does get high if you are changing a lot for sure. The highest amount I ever paid was like 20 gold I think? Usually it’s at the 5g amount though. Does that feel high or am I missing something here?

You’re bonkers. just changing all three pieces once is more than 20g…ok now i know you guys are crazy

Only if you change them in rapid succession. I have most of the fishing achievements, I am patient. ? I also just kept replacing gear for several weeks so it didn’t seem worth it to commit to anything. That said, obviously we agreed things felt a little rough and that’s why the new gear coming in Tides of Vengeance will be a bit different.

I guess there’s a reason why they don’t. Players would like to know what that reason is.

Not everything is meant to be the same system. This is a different system. Similar in some ways to powering up separate artifact weapons, but different. While I mentioned we could simplify gearing and take all thought out of it, having some complexity for people to figure out, organize, and decide what is best for them is probably a good thing.

Just want to drop in and mention, Legion artifacts were more interesting than the Heart of Azeroth. (The artifact system as a whole was more interesting) That Heart of Azeroth thing is literally just a giant stat stick.

What was up with not giving the thing a trait web like Artifacts? Or something the players could interact with.

The namesake of the Azerite system is disappointingly… inanimate.

We tend to do different things from expansion to expansion. This results in some things being better than others but we tend to want to avoid feeling like “yup, this is the best and only way to do it” and then doing the same thing for the next decade.

Translation: you gonna suffer even more in Tides of Vengeance, because new ring contains traits that only work for one spec.

Hopefully some of the information in this thread helps form a plan for gathering and using the new gear when it’s out.

The fact that you have to go to third party sites or use simc to figure out what trait is better isn’t complex enough for you?

I feel like that’s going off the path a bit. I have been doing that for a long time due to trinkets, comparing set bonuses to item level, and deciding the value of secondary stats for each spec. How is this different for you now?

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Just more noncommittal excuses for a broken system that they are too cheap and greedy and stubborn to properly address. Not even worth reading or entertaining their giant walls of bullshit anymore, just uninstall and move on. 

Edited by Demonpuke
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I've stopped playing more than one spec on characters this expansion. If I want to heal, I go over to my monk, where I've cultivated a healing set. If I want to DPS, I move over to my boomy or DH where I have cultivated DPS sets. The system is much worse than prior expansions. If I get a 370 Azerite piece of gear for my boomy, I'm going to select the best DPS traits (after a simc session). In previous expansions, I would be able to use that piece of gear for healing as well (let's say it was a set piece) because the system would automatically swap the benefits to resto gear bonuses. But in the current system, you are punished if you want to do that. It makes no god damn sense. It would be hard to heal at the same level as I DPS because I may have to settle for a 340 or 355 piece of Azerite gear (or pay the price to reforge). 

The system reminds me of Diablo's set system. Multiple sets for classes in Diablo. If you get a Primal Ancient Inna's, that wouldn't automatically change to a Primal Ancient Sunwuko's if you want to change your build. The system makes sense in a game where grinding is the name of the game. But not in wow. 

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What they forgot to mention is the horrid RNG on loot drops on select Azerirte and non-Azerite gear as a whole.  It may take hours to days, weeks, or months till you get the pieces needed and or desired to switch between Tanking and or DPS.  I recently acquired another 370 chest piece that I've been farming for the last 2 months from the Uldir Raid.  Before I was constantly reforging traits from Tank to DPS to help accommodate what was needed for either a keystone or for raid on a weekly if not on a daily basis.  Even if pushing alts to catch up with my Main's ilvl they too were having problems acquiring gear to catch up during the process. 

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The fact they basically reverted to an older system, needing for farm multiple gear sets, after rightly fixing that issue in MoP(?) with the tier bonuses depending on what spec you were in, is just silly. Azerite should work that way now, and it wouldn't even mean just having one set either.

For example on my Demon Hunter I've got a 385 chest with pretty good DPS traits, but the tank traits are pretty trash, totally awful. I'd much rather switch to another chest than be stuck with those horrible traits, but at the same time I've got a 385 helm that is pretty much BiS for both, but I've only got one of it, so I have to make a choice or spend a fortune respeccing.

It seems like Blizzard has forgotten why they introduced a lot of the systems they are mucking around with this expansion. Tier sets swapping, feasts being less efficient but cheaper than personal food when spread over a raid, etc. I mean heck why don't weapons have multiple primary stats? It worked great for armour, why limit it? Why should I be able to hand an agility sword I got but don't need to my mage friend who desperately needs a MH upgrade? It's got crit and haste on it! But oh, no int so no can't do it.

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4 hours ago, Demonpuke said:

Just more noncommittal excuses for a broken system that they are too cheap and greedy and stubborn to properly address. Not even worth reading or entertaining their giant walls of bullshit anymore, just uninstall and move on. 

I'm pretty much at that point now. The game feels like a chore now.

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My problem is that this issue has such an easy fix, yet they are too caught up in their own bullshit that they can’t see the answer that’s been staring right at them. MAKE THE TRAITS SEPARATE FOR EACH SPEC. Make it so you can have different combinations of traits on a single item. One combination for, say BM, and another separate one for MM. Then we won’t have to stockpile our gear, especially after the new season comes out and higher ilvl will generally mean an upgrade. Stupidity is my biggest pet peeve, and Blizzard has been triggering it massively lately.

Edited by Maxkitty
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I agree with all the above comments. They had a good system going where if you acquired say all 6 or 8 pieces of a Set that only required you to wear 4 pieces to receive the bonus, If you switched from say Prot pally to Hpal the set bonuses would change respectively. I dont see why they couldnt implement the same type of system with azerite gear. Honestly Just have is so that when you look at the gear's azerite rings, there are tabs at the top. Each of those tabs would correspond to one of the specs your class is capable of, and would show a list of traits accordingly for you. As you swapped between your specs those traits would change aswell. It would act in the same manner as the set bonus gear we just lost without having to acquire such a large number of pieces. Heck as a rogue, i currently have 10 pieces of azerite gear sitting my bags, so if a patch comes out and the meta for traits change for pvp, i hopefully have the pieces to cover that off so i can still play and do decent dmg.

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This isn't any different from relics in artifacts.  They are still spec-specific, you still need 3 per spec, and when you get a new one you still have to choose.  The fundamental difference is that, unlike relics, you can actually reuse the same Azerite armor for another spec when you get an upgrade for your mainspec, and you have the available option of generic traits for using them in multiple specs.

This is also little different from having to carry about extra rings, trinkets, and weapons for your offspec.

The game has never had complete gear conversion between specs, and Blizzard clearly likes it that way.  As they've said in the past, there should be some benefit to focusing on a particular spec, and that benefit has, for the entire life of the game thus far, included having somewhat more optimized gear for that spec.  BfA is no different.

TL;DR: if you want to run multiple specs, carry multiple sets of Azerite gear.  Every single one of my toons has a set of Azerite gear for each spec I actively play, and most have sets for specs I never play as well, simply because why not.  

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Never liked artifacts, not going to like Azerite system as well, even with some changes. It's just boring. At this point, I would like it removed, at least no more anything like this starting next expansion. Now, I'm missing those days when you simply hit max level and getting better gear was your endgame progression, without some endless grind on top of it. But I guess it's going to stick around like mission table.

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16 minutes ago, Arcling said:

Now, I'm missing those days when you simply hit max level and getting better gear was your endgame progression, without some endless grind on top of it.

You mean the mindless grind that was running Molten Core week after week after week trying to get your full 8-piece set, because each boss dropped specific set items instead of multi-class tokens?

You mean the mindless grind of doing the same daily quests every single day (or worse, simply repeatedly killing the same set of mobs over and over again for 2-5 rep each) to get a reputation to exalted for a specific mandatory raid enchant (example, the Sons of Hodir shoulder enchant in WotLK)?

You mean the mindless grind of repeatedly running a raid you've already cleared, not because your raid needs the gear anymore (because no warforging means that once you've gotten your BIS, you're done with that raid from a gear progression standpoint), but because you need to farm hundreds of materials to make the mandatory resistance gear needed for the next raid?

You mean the mindless grind of running random battlegrounds over and over and over and over and over because farming thousands and thousands of honor was how you ranked up in PvP back in those days?

You mean the mindless grind week after week collecting RNG drops from raid bosses so you can get and upgrade your legendary cloak (MoP) or ring (WoD)?

Mindless grinding has been part of the game since it started.  In fact, the "mindless" part of that grind has decreased drastically over the years.  Used to be you have a specific limited set of activities you could do to progress.  Nowadays, you have a bunch of activities that award AP, from mythics to expeditions to world quests to PvP to raiding.  And by in large, you don't even need to focus much on the grinding, because the weekly reduction in needed AP mostly carries you to the neck level you should be at anyway (exact same way Artifact Knowledge worked in Legion, diminishing returns for trying to power farm levels ahead of the curve, and catch up for those behind the curve).

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2 hours ago, Kaedys said:

Mindless grinding has been part of the game since it started. 

Never wanted to get back to old systems like dailies, just remove AP, artifact/Azerite gear and mission table from that. Grind has increased, only that  much of it is optional, however many rewards are now locked behind grind+rng (horrible combination, including paragon reps, which are returning). Though, WotLK had pretty nice balance in terms of grind. Once I was done with introductory stuff, I didn't have to do anything else before raids (easily stacked on mats, food etc.), other than some optional stuff. Dailies were for rep, once you were done, you didn't have to continue them like WQs for more AP and paragon reps if you want something from random rewards (Legion had mounts, now pets), instead of buying them all for exalted. That being said, WQs are fine, but I just want some of mentioned aspects of current system removed.

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I don't think I can possibly add anything of value to this discussion other than to say, I'm so sick and tired of Blizzard's sh!t. My sub ends in 20 days, and i'll be glad to go. This game is just pathetic now.

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