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Some Opinions About 2P Tier vs Crit Stacking

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So, I am stacking straight crit as resto, which seems to be working well. I was horrified losing over 16% haste after reforging and gem replacement, but anyway. I'm wondering if anyone else is noticing a difference in HPS when using the T16 2P or NOT using it. Reason being, I run Ordos just for Chestguard of Pyrrhic Immolation and I'd like to replace my Tunic of Celestial Harmony for the crit specifically. I look at Recount for information but all of the numbers just confuse the hell out of me. Some of you more progressed raiders maybe could give a new guy some input?

 

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/Azgalor/Hebron/advanced

Armory just for reference.

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So have you significantly gained HPS since you moved to straight crit?

 

The 2pc is really awesome in my opinion, even if it's a bit dull. The healing it does came 4th on our latest Garrosh kill at around 9% of my total healing done, whereas Ancestral Awakening came in around 1.5%. So I would expect to see a huge loss in HPS if I dropped the 2pc, especially on tank-heavy fights.

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Well, it's hard to judge because the other healer is an equally geared druid, and I think we all know how OP they are, but in solo situations, I've noticed a gain. I have to heal a bit more proactively to make up for the cast time but I'm getting 400-500k healing waves instead of barely 200k, chain heals collectively are hitting for about the same. Seems like an increase, but that's my concern, is my ES absorb doing a lot. I've been reading more about it in whatever I can find on Google and I think you're right, it'd be a loss in the end. The mana back from crit is insane, I only dip low on H Protectors, otherwise I'm generally over 40% even in a pinch. But We've only gotten to Galakras so far, very casual guild, so I haven't experienced H IJ or Dark Shamans yet. And, I'm only 568 so there could be a significant difference once I shed some of my normal/warforged pieces.

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You're actually higher than I am, and at roughly the same progression as my guild would be if we hadn't had a few important main switches. Anyway, I don't think that 1k Crit should have a difference of over 100% to your direct heals. Do you have logs to back that up?

 

 

I'm interested to see where this goes, as I'm looking to go from Haste (Normal) gear to Crit (Heroic) gear as we progress.

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I personally don't keep logs, or however it works... I think someone in the raid does but I've never looked into it. Although, the past few weeks I've been sitting for a lot of the bosses for others to come in, but I could start taking note in the next coming raids to have some kind of idea of the difference between the two.

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I did a bit of digging and these appear to be logs from your guild. There aren't any particularly recent ones so I won't analyse them (most recent is 12th December). Ask your guild leader if they upload them still!

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      Threat Diminishers
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      Totems
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      Talents
      Naturally, if you're only doing dungeons the road ahead is much easier and there's more freedom to move talent points. However, raid tanking follows strict guidelines to be effective. The last two talent setups assume you're in a serious guild who confidently clear raids.
      "The Basic"- 14/37/0

      The new player starter pack in 5mans. Pick if unsure of an upcoming boss fight or are still learning about dungeon shaman tanking. "The AoE" - 23/28/0

      For tanking many targets at a time in raids. It mainly uses Chain Lightning alongside Eye of the Storm for threat. Against +3 mobs, see: AoE Tanking. "The Advanced"- 21/30/0

      For Raid Tanking. The highest threat setup & for mobs resilient or immune to nature damage. Good gear and a solid knowledge of tanking is needed. ____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
      Rotation
      First, on the list is a simple dungeon tank rotation and we’ll be presuming the boss fight is simple.
      Pre-pull: Cast Lightning Shield and assure all possible buffs are present and max duration. Next, place the appropriate totems. Lastly, if it hasn't been done get the addon: KTM Threat, it displays the threat of members. A scenario can turn ugly quick, so watch KTM often. At any moment, you need to be sure of the fitting Earth Shock rank to use. Pulling: Cast Lightning Bolt/Chain Lightning and Earth Shock. If all goes smoothly, Earth Shock again and turn the boss away from the group. If the boss suddenly targets someone or drops aggro, use rank7 Earth shock to aggro them. For future threat problems, see: Threat. Second is a complex rotation mainly for raid tanking, it has great results but requires good gear, buff, etc... Naturally, if you aren't able to perform every single action below don't get discouraged, its mostly to showcase the maximum potential possible.
      Pre-pull: Cast Rank7 Lightning Shield. Place Stoneclaw Totem in front of you & back up 25-30yrds. (It will later halt the boss for 0.5 seconds or the boss hits it) Place Mana Spring Totem. Activate Oil of immolation. Pulling: Equip a spell damage weapon, ex: Staff of Dominance and cast Lightning Bolt, while the bolt travels, equip a healing weapon (ex: Will of Arlokk). As the bolt hits, Cast R6 Lesser Healing Wave on a warlock who recently Life Tap. Equip all normal tanking gear. Immediately after cast R7 Earth Shock. Activate Juju Flurry and Juju Escape, if the situation is ideal. Repeat the appropriate rank Earth Shock until boss is dead. Situational: If mana allows it, cast a suitable rank of Lightning Shield. If mana is foreseeably a problem, use Oil of immolation often. If mana is foreseeably an issue but threat isn't also cast R1 Frost Shock. Note: Versus nature immune bosses, to pull: use Magic Candle (equip spell damage weapon). After, follow the healing-threat tactic above & cast Lesser Healing Wave as much as possible until the boss is at melee range than Frost Shock. If more threat is needed: Flame Shock instead. MUST need Flame Buffet (don't bother otherwise) & similar debuffs. ____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
      Buffs
      Prioritize obtaining Defensive buffs before acquiring Threat related buffs. Agility for example has the added byproduct of helping with defensive and threat measures. Generally, off-tanks or known as "OT", take less damage, therefore, it's not fully needed to aim for Defensive buffs. Also, some buffs are unobtainable due to certain patch restrictions or unable to stack with others. There is a max of 32 buffs: Talents, Set bonuses & Equip effects don't count. But Gear enchants count with exceptions: (Crusader enchant and enchants from the profession enchanting don't count.) Resistance enchants however need to be reconfirmed as they make it seem now like those should count. Let's move on and explore relevant buffs to our tanking duties. The following buffs are classified into sub-groups to better highlight their usefulness and showcase different options.
      Threat Increasing Buffs
      Rallying Cry of the Dragonslayer: Gnomish Shrink Ray: (can backfire increasing group's attack power) Fengus' Ferocity: From Dire Maul. Trueshot Aura: +50 Attack power. Battle Shout: (Improved by Battlegear of Wrath (3/3) tier set bonus) Juju Might: +40 Attack power. (from repeatable Winterspring quest) Sayge's Dark Fortune of Agility: +10% Agility. From Darkmoon Faire. Ground Scorpok Assay: +25 Agility. Elixir of the Mongoose: +25 Agility, +2% Melee Crit. Grace of Air Totem: +77 Agility (effect is increased through a shaman talent) Call of the Raptor: +12 Agility for 30min. (non-repeatable quest reward item) Grilled Squid: +10 Agility for 10min. (does not stack with other food buffs) Strength of Earth Totem: (effect is increased through a shaman talent) Atiesh, Greatstaff of the Guardian: (can't stack w/Moonkin Form) Slip'kik's Savvy: From Dire Maul. Moonkin Form: +3% Spell Crit. Headmaster's Charge: +20 Intellect. Arcane Intellect: +31 Intellect. Gnomish Battle Chicken: Upon attacking it might give party +5% Attack Speed for 4 min. Warchief's Blessing: Fist of Shahram (Blackblade of Shahram) : +25% haste to party for 8sec. Juju Flurry: +3% Attack Speed for 20 sec. (Others can cast it on you) Swift Wind: (Only receivable upon finishing the Call of Air totem quest) Mana Spring Totem: +10 mana every 2 sec. (Only causes threat if you cast) Mageblood Potion: +12 mana per 5 sec. (regen effect doesn't cause threat) Innervate: Increases Mana regen by 400% for 20 sec. Oil of Immolation: 50 Fire dmg to target within 5yds every 3 sec for 15 sec. Lightning Shield: (Scales with spell damage) Static Barrier: From Electromagnetic Gigaflux Reactivator. Crystal Spire: (From a repeatable quest & anyone can cast it on you) Fire Shield: Deals 13 Fire dmg to melee attackers. Thorns: (Improved by Cenarion Raiment (3/3) tier set bonus ) Brilliant Wizard Oil: On a swappable weapon for the pulling of a mob. Blessed Wizard Oil: Ideal for Scholomance, Stratholme & Naxx. Flask of Supreme Power: (Can't stack w/Titans, so choose wisely.) Greater Arcane Elixir: +20 dmg dealt from spells & abilities. Traces of Silithyst: +5% damage to melee, range and spell damage dealt. Power Infusion: The target receives +20% spell damage & healing for 15 sec. Songflower Serenade: Boost melee, ranged, or spell to crit 5%, +15 all stats. Mark of the Chosen: 2% chance when hit of increasing all stats by 25. Spirit of Zandalar: +10% move speed, +15% all stats. Mark of the Wild: +384 armor, +12 all attributes,+27 all resistance. Elixir of Greater Firepower: Bolster fire damage by up to 40 for 30 min. Blessing of Blackfathom: +5 intellect & spirit. +15 frost damage. Elixir of Frost Power: Increases spell frost damage by up to 15 for 30 min. Dragonbreath Chili: (scales with spell damage and fire increasing buffs) Defensive-Buffs
       Sayge's Dark Fortune of Stamina: +10% Stamina (+10% Armor also exists)  Dirge's Kickin' Chimaerok Chops: (can't stack w/other food buffs)  Rumsey Rum Black Label: From Booty Bay.  Power Word: Fortitude: +54 Stamina.  Mol'dar's Moxie: +15% Stamina overall.  Spirit of Zanza: +50 Stamina, +50 spirit.  Blood Pact: +42 Stamina.  Flask of the Titans: +1200 Hp.  Elixir of Fortitude: +120 Hp.  Regrowth: From the (6/6) Dreamwalker Raiment tier set bonus.  The Lion Horn of Stormwind: (a friendly tank can activate it for you.)  Greater Stoneshield Potion: +2000 Armor for 2min.  Elixir of Superior Defense: +450 Armor.  Polished Armor: (AWAITING CONFIRMATION OF ITS EXISTENCE)  Crystal Ward: From repeatable quest in Un'Goro Crater. (allies can also cast on you)  Inspiration: Increases armor by 25% for 15 sec.  Power Word: Shield: Absorb 1105 dmg for 30 sec. While active...  Scarab Brooch: (Healers can trigger its effect on you before a fight)  Greater Heal Renew: From the (4/4) Vestments of Faith tier set bonus.  Bloodkelp Elixir of Dodging: +3% dodge for 30 min. (one time usable item)  Juju Escape: +5% Dodge for 10 sec.  Healing Stream Totem: Doesn't cause threat for you.  Greater Heal Renew: From (8/8) Vestments of Transcendence tier set.  Rejuvenation: Heal for 888 over 12 sec.  Regrowth: Heal for 1064 over 21 sec.  Renew: Heal for 970 damage over 15 sec.  Stoneskin Totem: Reduce melee damage taken by 30.  Dampen Magic: Useful for magical heavy fights.  Amplify Magic: Useful for physically heavy fights. Resistance Buffs
       Greater Fire Protection Potion: Absorbs fire damage.  Fire Resistance Totem: +60 fire resistance.  Frozen Rune: Absorbs 1500 to 2500 fire damage.  Juju Ember: +15 fire resistance for 10 min.  Greater Frost Protection Potion: Absorbs frost damage.  Frost Resistance Totem: +60 frost resistance.  Juju Chill: +15 frost resistance for 10 min.  Greater Nature Protection Potion: Absorbs nature damage.  Nature Resistance Totem: +60 nature resistance.  Greater Shadow Protection Potion: Absorbs shadow damage.  Crystal Basilisk Spine: +10 Shadow resistance & Frost for 1 min.  Gift of Arthas: +10 Shadow resistance for 30 min. Mind Control Buffs
      It is possible for an Alliance priest to use  Mind Control or someone with engineering to use the head slot item  Gnomish Mind Control Cap versus players on the Horde. For that duration the mind controlled Horde character is now considered an Alliance player. This allows the character to receive buffs from paladins. In the many guild raids I’ve taken part, we'd have 2-3 players on their paladins and priests stationed near the raid entrance for mind control buffing. It's also possible for a priest of any faction to Mind Control certain mobs, which can dish out buffs to all raid members.
      Greater Blessing of Sanctuary: (Will stack w/Stoneskin Totem) Greater Blessing of Wisdom: (Will stack w/Mana Spring Totem). Greater Blessing of Salvation: (can't stack w/Tranquil Air Totem). Greater Blessing of Might: (can't stack w/Strength of Earth Totem) Greater Blessing of Kings: +10% to all stats for 15 min. Improved Lay on Hands: Possible once it expires to go outside to get re-buffed then re-enter the instance & summoned back to allies. BONUS: You can get Fear Ward from dwarf priests and if survivability is secured Curse of Recklessness from horde warlocks. Mind Control Buffs from mobs
       Fury of Ragnaros: From Twilight Emissary in BRD.  Resist Arcane: From Scarlet Medic in Plaguelands.  Resist Fire: From Scarshield Spellbinder in BWL.  Bloodlust: From Gordok Mage-Lord in DM.  Bloodlust: From Hamhock in Stockades. Special Event Buffs:
      On an ending note for buffs, we can also get buffs from special events. An example, is The Midsummer Fire Festival an event celebrating the hottest season of the year. It lasts about two weeks (mid-late June to early July). The next ones are Love is in the Air, Lunar Festival, Wickerman Festival and Scourge Invasion. The following buffs are separated by their event.
      Thunder Bluff Gift Collection: +30 Intellect for 1 hour. Ironforge Gift Collection: +30 Intellect for 1 hour. Stormwind Gift Collection: +30 Intellect for 1 hour. Undercity Gift Collection: +30 Intellect for 1 hour. Orgrimmar Gift Collection: +30 Agility for 1 hour. Darnassus Gift Collection: +30 Agility for 1 hour. Fire Festival Fortitude: (stacks w/stamina buffs above) Midsummer Sausage: Bolsters damage from spells by up to 23. Fire-toasted Bun: +2% hit chance for 1 hr. Fire Festival Fury: +3% spell and melee crit for 1 hr. Elderberry Pie: +13 defense for 1 hr. Buttermilk Delight: +13 defense for 1 hr. Very Berry Cream: Bolsters damage from spells by up to 23. Dark Desire: +2% hit chance for 1 hr. Celebrate Good Times!: +10% to all stats for 30min. Elune's Blessing: All stats increased by 10% for 1hr. Wickerman Festival (October 18th - November 1st) Invocation of the Wickerman: +25% health & mana regen. +25% stamina. Scourge Invasion Soul Revival: +10% to all damage caused for 30 minutes. Debuffs
      There can be a total of 16 debuffs on a boss. Having as many debuffs on a raid boss is crucial. All debuffs on the list below benefit us in either Threat or Defensive aspects and assumed to be at their maximum rank and talent improvement. The following debuffs are placed into sub-groups to better highlight their utility and showcase different options.
      Curse of Recklessness: - 290 armor but bolsters melee attack power by 45. Expose Armor: (can't stack w/Sunder Armor but it reduce more armor). Sunder Armor: Reduces armor by 450. Can be applied up to 5 times. Annihilator: Reduces an enemy's armor by 200. Stacks up to 3 times. Faerie Fire: Reduces armor by 505 for 40 sec. Improved Shadow Bolt: Curse of Shadow: Reduces Shadow & Arcane resistances by 75... Shadow Weaving: Wail of the Banshee: (affected by spell hit, usually casted by healers.) Insect Swarm: Reduces target's chance to hit by 2%... Thunderfury, Blessed Blade: (can't stack w/Thunder Clap) Thunder Clap: (can't stack w/Thunderfury's slow effect) Improved Scorch: To increase Flame Shock's damage (niche scenario). Flame Buffet: To increase Flame Shock's damage (niche scenario). Curse of the Elements: -75 resistance to Fire & Frost and increase Fire... Winter's Chill: To increase Frost Shock's damage (niche scenario). Stormstrike: Next 2 sources of Nature damage dealt are increased by 20%. Gift of Arthas: If a target strikes you, they have a 30% chance... Nightfall: Spell damage taken by target increased by 15% for 5 sec. Demoralizing Shout: Reduce attack power of mobs by 140 for 30 sec. Curse of Weakness: (effect is increased through a warlock talent) Gear
      If unsure of guild or group performance, carry several focused gear sets: Stamina set, Dodge set & Armor set to cater to any possible encounter. Certain pieces of gear from PvP through Honor Ranking remains the best forever but demands a large amount of Honor grinding.
      Below is a Gear Spreadsheet to help with gear progression.
      - Gear Spreadsheet Link Below are BiS sets by Phase for defensive aspects, see above for threat gear.
      - PreRaid          AoE
      - Phase 1          AoE              Fire resist
      - Phase 2       (no PvP)              AoE
      - Phase 3       (no PvP)
      - Phase 4       (no PvP)           Nature Resist
      - Phase 5       (no PvP)           Nature Resist for Huhuran
      - Phase 6       (no PvP)           Nature Resist Enchants
      Similar to gear, enchants must be tailored against the specific boss you will be facing. Allies can also help us, by enchanting their own cloak with Formula: Enchant Cloak - Subtlety.
      Here is the Enchant Spreadsheet Link. Tank Comparison
      To showcase our max potential a full BiS geared and buffed shaman will be the closest in stats to approach a Druid tank. Let's look at the stats to see the differences. As a guideline, the Example Druid Tank below is BiS/buffed and able to clear most bosses with no issue. A shaman like other tanks tailors his gear versus the boss they're facing. Obviously, the Example Druid Tank can reach higher numbers and has a plethora of defensive spells, but the goal is to showcase the class with the closest similarity to a shaman in stats across the board that gets the job done in high-end raids.

      Druids have the luxury of having multiple categories covered and a broader safety net on top of having access to join Alliance for the added advantage of paladins spells, while shaman tanks are required to significantly maximize a specific category for a certain boss.done in high-end raids.
      Now, let's explores the threat generated by other classes to showcase where shaman tanks stand. Remember, threat depends on gear, boss, etc... But in general, the current standing of tanks that can do the most threat are:
      Feral Druid/Warrior. Paladin/Enh Shaman. Dem warlock. Priest tanks AoE Tanking
      Although I slightly talked about it in "Talents". Let me go into more detail here.
      Against 3 targets and/or dungeons, AoE tanking is about Chain Lightning proccing with Eye of the Storm as the main conduit to deal damage and preserve threat on 3 targets. Because it isn't possible to dodge, block, parry while casting, this method is suggested versus mobs dealing little to moderate damage. Against heavy hitting targets it's advisable to grab the weapon Hand of Edward the Odd and wait for its procs to cast. If you don't foresee a random mob being aggroed by someone, cast R1 Frost Shock to save mana and increase the proc chance of Elemental Devastation and Elemental Focus. This is all done while auto attacking a different target after every 4-5 melee hit. Items such as Skull Flame Shield, Force Reactive Disk, Oil of Immolation are beneficial. With a coordinated raid group, it's possible to heal designated players as they "stand in fire" in between boss melee swings. Another way for players to intentionally receive damage is for designated warlocks to use Life Tap alongside items, such as Demonic Rune or Goblin Sapper Charge. Equipping a weapon with bolstering healing attributes such as: Hammer of the Twisting Nether before healing a member wield yield more threat. Raid Composition
      Raid composition differs with each boss but is seen as a skill that evolves over time and reflects the playstyle of a guild or raid. The following composition is an example with minor exceptions differing from the norm. By no means is it perfect since compositions change along side: patches, gear, experience, etc... With the raid leader's permission offer your advice on an ideal comp catering to your needs without overstepping.

      In (Group 1): A fellow tank in your party can equip The Lion Horn of Stormwind, granted the trinket slot isn't needed for anything else. A bear can replace a prot warrior in the tank party, if the raid is comfortable enough with the idea and could probarbly use an emergency Innervate or Rebirth Also, only bring the bare minimum of tanks. This will open a spot for either: a lock with Blood Pact, or a hunter with Trueshot Aura. Rogues are favored over fury warrior, they Feint, Sprint, Evasion and Vanish to manage their threat/aggro. Feral cat druids can offer similar utilities as a bear and can Cower and Dash to manage their threat/aggro. Discipline priest with experience and ease of mind may occasionally throw a Power Infusion on a shaman tank during the pull phase. In (Group 6): The shaman is elemental since healing is not an issue and we are relying mostly on Tranquil Air Totem. In the situation, you are taking too much damage this spot can be replaced by a restoration shaman. In (Group 7): A mage could be replaced by a shadow weaving healing priest. In (Group 8): Mages gravitate to Fire Specialization after AQ but keeping a single mage as Frost with the talent Winter's Chill is advisable. A rogue can be replaced by a melee hunter on Nightfall duty. ____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ Thanks for Reading! If you have any questions regarding shaman tanking, feel free to drop by the Twitch stream to chat.
    • By Skaboy
      <Fun is for Casuals> is a serious but casual horde guild on US-Hyjal. We are serious about raiding without the intense hours. Even when recruitment status is none, we will accept exceptional applications for all classes. For a full list of what we're looking for check out https://funisforcasuals.enjin.com . 
      Our raid times are Tuesday and Thursday from 5:00PM to 8:00PM server (PST) with raid invitations sent out a few minutes prior to that.

      We're interested in you if you fit the following criteria:
      Raid attendance is essential. We don't want people sitting on the bench but we also want to make sure we're raiding 6 hours per week. We expect you to be available for at least 90% of our raids. Be on time and prepared for raids. This includes flasks and other consumables. Discord is mandatory and a working mic is desired. You're appropriately geared for our current content. Effort and thought have been put into your gear/gem/enchant choices. You wouldn't show up for a job interview looking like a scrub, why would you apply to a guild with improper gems or some insane spec? You're up to date with your class. We expect our raiders to perform to the best of their abilities. You have a computer that's not run with hamster power or requires a hand crank. Some encounters are taxing on a computer's resources so if your toon can't even handle Orgrimmar it's not likely to do well with 20+ whelps that need AOE'ing.
      You may be interested in us because:
      <Fun is for Casuals> uses the personal loot system. There is no loot council, or DKP. We won't eat your babies the first time you stand in something you have no business being in. Repeatedly do it and we'll break out the bibs and BBQ sauce. We provide a limited amount of consumables and flasks on hard mode raid nights. Discord isn't a circus during raids. We're focused on the job at hand and you should be too. We don't want someone to miss a an interrupt because they were distracted by fart jokes. We are not interested in you if you fit the following criteria:
      You roll on BoE items then sell them. Unwilling/unable to spend an entire evening on one boss during progression. While this is rare, it can happen. Drama queens. If you have a problem bring it up to E. This is his job. Don't announce it in guild chat or during a raid. Your issue will have nothing to do with 99% of the guild. You are 17 or younger. We try to keep guild and discord chat PG-13 but occasionally a few four letter words appear out of nowhere. Additionally, we don't want someone's mom interrupting their raiding to get homework or the dishes done. Follow the instructions at https://funisforcasuals.enjin.com/ under the Recruitment tab if you would like to apply.
      If you have any question, feel free to contact E. at DbD#1309
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