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Starym

Hit Values vs. Raid Bosses in Classic Clarified

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It seems the last "not a bug" thread posted on the Classic forums has been quite active and even though most of the original claims/questions posted there have been debunked, it seems more and more keep arising. The most recent argument arose over hit values and whether the 8% miss chance raid bosses (or any creature 3 levels above the player) was actually correct, as there's been evidence that 8% wasn't enough to get hit capped.

Today Blizzard responded and it seems the 8% number shared by devs was, in fact wrong. Well, mostly. Apparently there's some weird code that's ignoring the first 1% of + hit for most players, unless the players have +5 weapon skill from whatever source.Check out the more detailed explanation below:

Blizzard LogoHit Values (source)

There are a lot of questions seeking additional clarification in this thread, and while we’re not going to dig too deep into everything asked here, we did want to take a quick moment to highlight this comment and our findings around it in particular. In the days following our original post, we did an even deeper deep dive into combat, focusing on max level characters with various races, classes, talents and gear added to the equation. In doing so we discovered something very interesting:

There is some code in 1.12 that explicitly adds a modifier that causes the first 1% of +hit gained from talents or gear to be ignored against monsters with more than 10 Defense Skill above the attacking player’s Weapon Skill.

This means that the so-called “hit cap” is in effect 9% rather than 8% for a player with 300 Weapon Skill fighting a level 63 monster with a Defense Skill of 315. With a Weapon Skill of 305, such as from Sword Specialization (Humans) or Axe Specialization (Orcs), this hit modifier is no longer in place against +3 level monsters, provided that you are using the appropriate weapon type to gain the passive bonus. Needless to say, this makes +Weapon Skill very good against raid-level monsters.

This code is already fully present in the WoW Classic client, and this will continue to function exactly as it did in the original game.

Thanks everyone in this thread for their interest in this topic. It’s this kind of discussion and attention to detail that makes this project so incredibly fun to be a part of  ?

So, while this observation from the community was in fact correct, and Blizzard (ironically) missed it, it's still technically not a bug, since it was present in Vanilla. It's definitely a weird one, even for Vanilla standards though, and it's a great catch from Mirayne over on the official forums. Now I better understand why my Obsidian Edged Blade was so awesome back then.

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I feel like there's a quickly developing fine line where we're not going to enjoy Classic because it's being turned back into BfA by beating it into submission. I'm not sure how to feel about it. I also feel like the beta is taking too long because they're dragging it out to ensure it gets released after 8.2.

Let me just stamp my feet and wave my hands like a petulant child while I complain. OK, taking my ball and going home.

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1 hour ago, OldManKrypton said:

I feel like there's a quickly developing fine line where we're not going to enjoy Classic because it's being turned back into BfA by beating it into submission. I'm not sure how to feel about it. I also feel like the beta is taking too long because they're dragging it out to ensure it gets released after 8.2.

Let me just stamp my feet and wave my hands like a petulant child while I complain. OK, taking my ball and going home.

How the hell are they turning it into BFA? People are getting exactly what they demanded and whined for for years and years. Classic is going to be exactly that, classic, warts and all.

Seriously I don't get the complaining, you're getting what you wanted! The classic 'community' spammed every dev livestream with "classic when" and sent death to streamers and content creators who didn't agree with them, spammed the forums, and generally acted like entitled children, and they got what they wanted, and now that they have it, it's not good enough!

I think that's the main problem with classic, it's not the game, it's the people.

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13 minutes ago, OldManKrypton said:

Wow, you need to take a break from the internet. Or direct your anger somewhere else.

Because I don't approve of the selfish entitled, and frankly disgusting, behaviour of the classic community? Like I said before, you guys are getting exactly what you demanded, and now that you are you're not happy, but complaining more and saying it's turning into BFA?

Seriously I don't understand you lot.

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Maybe an outburst of discontent for the described people but i have to agree to some degree. That being said, where does this post say anything about changes that make the game like BfA.  You are just stoking the flame and posting something that has nothing to do with the thread.

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1 hour ago, OldManKrypton said:

Why are you even here or reading it then? Avoid the outrage, guy. Also, nobody needs your approval for anything.

Maybe not, but that wont stop me calling the selfish entitled behaviour of the classic community, the most toxic group of people this side of LoL.

I mean seriously you claim that they are 'turning classic into BFA' because what? They tuned the hit value to what it actually was?

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I think it was really poor wording I'm that response. It almost sounds like the blue is uninformed about how hit and hit cap works.  Saying that their is some code that causes the first hit % to be ignored makes it sound like that one hit isn't important. What I believe he meant to really say is that the formula to calculate your chance to miss CHANGES from 304 to 305 weapon skill. Here is what has always been known to be the formula for weapon skill and hit rating:

skilldiff = (Attacker Weapon Skill) - (Target Defense Skill)

if (skillDiff < -10)
missChance -= (skillDiff + 10) * 0.4 - 1.0
else
missChance -= skillDiff * 0.1

*credit to omakaroni

Edited by seeth07
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I fail to see how the game is going to end up like BfA while they're keeping everything authentic exactly the way it was in Vanilla, and checking every report if it's in line with their reference client. Keep the discussions civil folks and refrain from trolling, or we'll be forced to swing the hammer.

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7 hours ago, OldManKrypton said:

I feel like there's a quickly developing fine line where we're not going to enjoy Classic because it's being turned back into BfA by beating it into submission. I'm not sure how to feel about it. I also feel like the beta is taking too long because they're dragging it out to ensure it gets released after 8.2.

Let me just stamp my feet and wave my hands like a petulant child while I complain. OK, taking my ball and going home.

I really don't see the correlation how Classic will turn into BFA.  Classic is and is going to be just Classic...unaltered, untouched, unmodified.  Classic will not have any of QoL systems be put in place if that is what you are worried about.  And believe scheduled release date for Classic is possibly August/September of this year.  However you can take this with a grain of salt....  With today's available excess of information compared to the days of old Vanilla, when WoW was first launched, Classic in itself will be 'easier' to a majority of the playerbase that has already endured this original form of content.  And players will have easy access to information on how to build their characters, what to gear, and how to quest and where to go in the world of Azeroth.  Such information was not around on the internet at the time and if so there was only small smidgets of it here or there back then.

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2 hours ago, Stan said:

I fail to see how the game is going to end up like BfA while they're keeping everything authentic exactly the way it was in Vanilla, and verifying every report with their reference client

ITS LIKE SOME PEOPLE BLOW THINGS WAY OUT OF PROPORTION.

Caps for emPHASis.

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4 hours ago, seeth07 said:

I think it was really poor wording I'm that response. It almost sounds like the blue is uninformed about how hit and hit cap works.  Saying that their is some code that causes the first hit % to be ignored makes it sound like that one hit isn't important. What I believe he meant to really say is that the formula to calculate your chance to miss CHANGES from 304 to 305 weapon skill. Here is what has always been known to be the formula for weapon skill and hit rating:

skilldiff = (Attacker Weapon Skill) - (Target Defense Skill)

if (skillDiff < -10)
missChance -= (skillDiff + 10) * 0.4 - 1.0
else
missChance -= skillDiff * 0.1

*credit to omakaroni

If this is true, blizzards post would absolutely misslead. This formula basically says we have a "penalty" if targets defensivskill is 10 or more points higher than a my attackskill. This means the needed additional hitrating for hitcap depends on my attackrating. The first additional 1%  would not be useless, this would be a complete wrong statement. We just need proportionally more hitrating if we have less than 10 difference. 

So i think there is another code and not that formula which makes a difference?

Edited by Allseye

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OK, clearly I hit a nerve. Two things. One, I can be wrong and admit it, certainly. Two, apparently civility and respect have long since been forgotten here and it's OK to attack people relentlessly. It'll be noted in future subs.

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11 hours ago, OldManKrypton said:

I feel like there's a quickly developing fine line where we're not going to enjoy Classic because it's being turned back into BfA by beating it into submission. I'm not sure how to feel about it. I also feel like the beta is taking too long because they're dragging it out to ensure it gets released after 8.2.

Let me just stamp my feet and wave my hands like a petulant child while I complain. OK, taking my ball and going home.

Just because players know mostly everything about classic doesn’t mean it will go the same way as BFA. BFA is beat into submission by winey entitled casual gamers that have conned the dev teams into adding features that quite literally submit the game. dungeon/raid finder, flying mounts, world quests for easy loot, dailies, sharding, cross realm grouping. The Classic community will thrive because these things absent.

private server players have already analyzed the game nearly to its limit. It’s been proven that the sense of community and social structure is why people always come back. They already know it’s a relatively simple game with simple mechanics. 

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1 hour ago, OldManKrypton said:

OK, clearly I hit a nerve. Two things. One, I can be wrong and admit it, certainly. Two, apparently civility and respect have long since been forgotten here and it's OK to attack people relentlessly. It'll be noted in future subs.

See here's the thing. The response you're getting to your (honestly not that bad - incorrect, but not bad) post has nothing to do with you or your post. The instant anyone pro-Classic says anything even remotely negative concerning BfA the BfAers get butthurt. The exact same thing happens when BfAers say bad things about Classic. And around and around it goes and then after reading 349438234 posts trashing BfA/Classic (select whichever one you're sworn to protect for some bizzare reason) people have outbursts towards the next negative post they read.

Now for my money, your post wasn't bad at all, it was just incorrect and not really related to the news at all - in fact the news is about Blizzard keeping things exactly as they were in patch 1.12 - and then others reacted badly not because you're incorrect or were particularly nasty, they just saw "BfA bad, Classic good, Blizzard ruin Classic", which isn't really at all what you said. Hell, you even finished off your post by acknowledging that you were basically throwing a bit of a tantrum (which I found funny and totally disarmed any negativity of your post), so really, the reaction has nothing to do with you.

As for the civility thing I can assure you this particular site is remarkably civil compared to... well most other places when it comes to WoW (just try to dare read our facebook comments..jeez).

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11 minutes ago, Starym said:

See here's the thing. The response you're getting to your (honestly not that bad - incorrect, but not bad) post has nothing to do with you or your post. The instant anyone pro-Classic says anything even remotely negative concerning BfA the BfAers get butthurt. The exact same thing happens when BfAers say bad things about Classic. And around and around it goes and then after reading 349438234 posts trashing BfA/Classic (select whichever one you're sworn to protect for some bizzare reason) people have outbursts towards the next negative post they read.

Now for my money, your post wasn't bad at all, it was just incorrect and not really related to the news at all - in fact the news is about Blizzard keeping things exactly as they were in patch 1.12 - and then others reacted badly not because you're incorrect or were particularly nasty, they just saw "BfA bad, Classic good, Blizzard ruin Classic", which isn't really at all what you said. Hell, you even finished off your post by acknowledging that you were basically throwing a bit of a tantrum (which I found funny and totally disarmed any negativity of your post), so really, the reaction has nothing to do with you.

As for the civility thing I can assure you this particular site is remarkably civil compared to... well most other places when it comes to WoW (just try to dare read our facebook comments..jeez).

Right, the "tantrum" acknowledgment at the end was supposed to be the diffuser of such an inane comment. I was making it known I was my own antagonist and for no reason. Instead, outrage. I just don't care for all the personal/party attacks that are just relentless. We live in a society where it's OK to just bash and bash and bash and the only way to have any control is by canceling my sub and just not participating. I do appreciate the site though and the stories and wish you all the very best.

Edited by OldManKrypton

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6 hours ago, OldManKrypton said:

OK, clearly I hit a nerve. Two things. One, I can be wrong and admit it, certainly. Two, apparently civility and respect have long since been forgotten here and it's OK to attack people relentlessly. It'll be noted in future subs.

Also you: "Let me just stamp my feet and wave my hands like a petulant child while I complain"

Maybe don't pretend you're being a petulant child in your OP, and people won't treat you like a petulant child in their responses.

Not to mention that you didn't even explain your initial position on WHY Classic was going to be BfA 2.0, which just added to the "petulant child" part.

It's fine to have an opinion, but dear god man, back it up with SOMETHING, ANYTHING.  Otherwise, don't be surprised when you get called out for being flat wrong and contributing to a larger problem. 

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      Bonesmith Heirmir (349)
      Tier 0
      Serrated Spaulders - Inflict 485 Shadow damage to your attacker over 5 sec when hit at melee range. Resourceful Fleshcrafting - Defeating an enemy reduces Fleshcraft's cooldown by 1 sec. Tier 1
      Survival Conduit Utility Conduit Tier 2
      Throughput Conduit Tier 3
      Heirmir's Arsenal: Ravenous Pendant - Defeating an enemy restores 1% of your maximum health after 3 sec. Stacks to 5. Heirmir's Arsenal: Marrowed Gemstone - After landing 10 critical strikes, you gain 20% increased Critical Strike for 10 sec. May only occur once per 1 min. Heirmir's Arsenal: Gorestompers - Damaging or healing a target below 35% grants you 25% increased movement speed for 5 sec. May only occur once per 1 min. Tier 4
      Utility Conduit Throughput Conduit Survival Conduit Tier 5
      Survival Conduit Tier 6
      Bone Spurs - Mounted movement speed is increased by 5%. If attacked while mounted, mounted movement speed is increased by an additional 10% for 30 sec. Smithing Expertise - You gain mining materials from completing dungeons, raids, battlegrounds, and arenas while soulbound. Tier 7
      Forgeborne Reveries - Upon death, your armor animates for 10 sec, allowing you to attack and use some spells and abilities as if alive. Emeni (330)
      Tier 0
      Emeni's Magnificent Skin - When you use your Necrolord class ability or spell, gain a stack of Emeni's Magnificent Skin, stacking up to 4 times. Using Fleshcraft consumes your Emeni's Magnificent Skin to increase your maximum health by 5% per stack for 2 min. Tier 1
      Cartilaginous Legs - After taking falling damage, the health lost becomes a shield lasting 15 sec. Hearth Kidneystone - You may attune your Hearth Kidneystone to any resting location and return to it. 24 hour cooldown, reduced by 5 min every killing blow. Tier 2
      Throughput Conduit Survival Conduit Tier 3
      Utility Conduit Tier 4
      Gristled Toes - Movement speed increased by 2% for every nearby enemy, up to 10%. Gnashing Chompers - Gain 1% Haste for 20 sec after defeating an enemy, up to 5%. Sulfuric Emission - When reduced below 20% health, you fear nearby enemies for 3 sec. Tier 5
      Throughput Conduit Survival Conduit Utility Conduit Tier 6
      Throughput Conduit Tier 7
      Runescribed Bone - Each enemy you defeat grants you one stack of Runescribed Bone, reducing magic damage taken by 1% for 30 sec. At 5 stacks, your soulbind traits are empowered for 30 sec. Emeni's Magnificent Skin: Releasing stacks deals [ 34.5% of Spell Power + 34.5% of Attack Power ] Shadow damage to nearby enemies, increased by 1% per stack. Cartilaginous Legs: Shield amount doubled. Hearth Kidneystone: Cooldown reduction doubled. Gristled Toes: Movement speed now increased by 3%, up to 25%. Gnashing Chompers: Haste increase doubled.
      Sulfuric Emission: Fear duration increased by 2 sec. Plague Deviser Marileth (325)
      Tier 0
      Volatile Solvent - Using Fleshcraft with nearby corpses derives a benefit from a corpse, differing based on the creature's type. Volatile Solvent: Humanoid - Mastery increased by 2%. Volatile Solvent: Aberration -  Armor increased by 5%. Volatile Solvent: Beast - Primary stat increased by 2%. Volatile Solvent: Critter - Size decreased by 50%. Volatile Solvent: Demon - Stamina increased by 5%. Volatile Solvent: Dragonkin - Critical Strike increased by 2%. Volatile Solvent: Elemental - Magic damage done increased by 2%. Volatile Solvent: Gas Cloud - Visibility reduced by 25%. Volatile Solvent: Giant - Size increased by 10%. Physical damage done increased by 5%. Volatile Solvent: Mechanical - Magic damage taken reduced by 5%. Volatile Solvent: Totem - Haste increased by 5%. Volatile Solvent: Undead - Killing an enemy heals you for 5% of maximum health. Tier 1
      Survival Conduit Throughput Conduit Utility Conduit Tier 2
      Travel with Bloop - While standing still, you slowly build stacks of Bloop's Wanderlust. At 10 stacks, your movement speed is increased by 10% for 2 min. Ooz's Frictionless Coating - When reduced below 50% health, Ooz courses over you, granting you a shield for 10% of your maximum health for 20 sec. Plaguey's Preemptive Strike - Your first attack or spell cast on an enemy increases your damage done to them by 10% for 5 sec. Doesn't occur if Plaguey is busy Preemptively Striking another target. Tier 3
      Utility Conduit Tier 4
      Kevin's Keyring - Allows opening of locks that require up to 600 skill. Each second spent channeling Fleshcraft reduces Kevin's Keyring's cooldown by one hour. Plagueborn Cleansing Slime - Defeating enemies has a chance to deploy your Plagueborn Cleansing Slime, which improves the remaining durability on your armor. Tier 5
      Survival Conduit Utility Conduit Tier 6
      Throughput Conduit Tier 7
      Ultimate Form - Fleshcraft renders you immune to crowd control. A very early preview of the Soulbind system that grants you various powers in Shadowlands.
    • By Starym
      We have some interesting statistics to take a look at today, as redditor Quasiwave created an infographic looking at population data for both factions, the most popular races and classes, as well as a (somewhat less relevant/accurate) "most commonly paired race/class combos" diagonal. There's not that much shocking info in there, with Blood Elves being staggeringly popular for the Horde and Night Elves and Humans for the Alliance, but it's interesting to see all the stats anyway.

      Now, the numbers can never be exact (or even close to it), as Blizzard doesn't share that kind of data anymore, but Quasiwave took the next best thing, as the data was taken from Warcraft Realms and features 300,000 characters (not unique players).

      Here's some more info on the methods used by the author himself and you can check out the reddit thread for even more statistics debate on the methods used, whether it's a realistic representation, and just how accurate or not those diagonal boxes are.
      Source.
    • By Starym
      We're back to small hotifxes, as today's have only one actually, with the N'Zoth fight getting that multiple Spike Tentacle cast on the same player bug sorted out.
      May 27 (source)
      Dungeons and Raids
      Ny’alotha, the Waking City N’Zoth the Corruptor Fixed a bug that could cause Spike Tentacles to repeatedly target a player with multiple casts of Pain Spike in succession rather than randomizing targets.
    • By Stan
      Chromie is casually chilling on her hourglass near embassies in Stormwind and Orgrimmar, allowing players to pick an expansion/timeline they would like for leveling from 10 to 50 before heading to Shadowlands.
      New players that have not played through Battle for Azeroth and reached level 120 yet with at least one character won't be eligible for this option and must play Battle for Azeroth by default when Shadowlands goes live.
      Any subsequent characters you create will be able to pick from the following timelines for leveling:
      Kalimdor & Eastern Kingdoms
      Deathwing's emergence from Deepholm altered Azeroth's landscape forever and weakened the veil between this world and the elemental planes. Deathwing won't know what hit him!

      Outland
      The Dark Portal has once again opened, and the demons of the Burning Legion are advancing on Azeroth! Make sure their plans have a rather... Azerothian-sized setback!

      Northrend
      The tragic fall of Arthas Menethil and his ascension to the frozen throne as the Lich King is a moment in history that has permanently left a lingering scar across all Azeroth. Stopping the Lich King would really put the Scourge's plan on ice.

      Pandaria
      An ancient and mysterious land shrouded in fog for over ten thousand years appeared due to the events of the Cataclysm, and its people could really use the help of an adventurer like you. Going back to Pandaria is a great way to see that life is worth savoring!

      Draenor
      The orcish clans had a very unfortunate fate in our timeline, but the meddling of Garrosh Hellscream brought forth a force that threatened the very existence of all life on Azeroth--the Iron Horde. Travel back through time and meet the orcish clans and the draenei for the first time... again!

      Broken Isles
      The Burning Legion sought to conquer Azeroth and enslave its world soul and now that the Tomb of Sargeras has been reopened, they advance on our world. History will remember that you stood between the Legion and annihilation!

      You can return and talk to Chromie to select a different timeline whenever you feel like it.
      There is also a whirly screen visual and clock ticking sound when you select a timeline.


      Chromie also has some cool replies to go with your expansion choice:
      Vanilla/Cataclysm: "Who would have thought someone named Deathwing would bring about so much destruction?" Outland: "You look quite prepared!" Northrend: "Do not exercise restraint when showing your great power to the Scourge." Pandaria: "Whatever you do, do not get between a Pandaren and their brew. It'll be unbearably painful if you do!" Draenor: "If a scary orc offers you something to drink, you probably want to say no." Broken Isles: "If you find a powerful weapon, just make sure it isn't corrupted by the Burning Legion or Old Gods, okay?" Note that timeline icons are currently messed up on Alpha.
      Chromie Time allows you to select an expansion/timeline for leveling in Shadowlands.
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