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Starym

Hit Values vs. Raid Bosses in Classic Clarified

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It seems the last "not a bug" thread posted on the Classic forums has been quite active and even though most of the original claims/questions posted there have been debunked, it seems more and more keep arising. The most recent argument arose over hit values and whether the 8% miss chance raid bosses (or any creature 3 levels above the player) was actually correct, as there's been evidence that 8% wasn't enough to get hit capped.

Today Blizzard responded and it seems the 8% number shared by devs was, in fact wrong. Well, mostly. Apparently there's some weird code that's ignoring the first 1% of + hit for most players, unless the players have +5 weapon skill from whatever source.Check out the more detailed explanation below:

Blizzard LogoHit Values (source)

There are a lot of questions seeking additional clarification in this thread, and while we’re not going to dig too deep into everything asked here, we did want to take a quick moment to highlight this comment and our findings around it in particular. In the days following our original post, we did an even deeper deep dive into combat, focusing on max level characters with various races, classes, talents and gear added to the equation. In doing so we discovered something very interesting:

There is some code in 1.12 that explicitly adds a modifier that causes the first 1% of +hit gained from talents or gear to be ignored against monsters with more than 10 Defense Skill above the attacking player’s Weapon Skill.

This means that the so-called “hit cap” is in effect 9% rather than 8% for a player with 300 Weapon Skill fighting a level 63 monster with a Defense Skill of 315. With a Weapon Skill of 305, such as from Sword Specialization (Humans) or Axe Specialization (Orcs), this hit modifier is no longer in place against +3 level monsters, provided that you are using the appropriate weapon type to gain the passive bonus. Needless to say, this makes +Weapon Skill very good against raid-level monsters.

This code is already fully present in the WoW Classic client, and this will continue to function exactly as it did in the original game.

Thanks everyone in this thread for their interest in this topic. It’s this kind of discussion and attention to detail that makes this project so incredibly fun to be a part of  ?

So, while this observation from the community was in fact correct, and Blizzard (ironically) missed it, it's still technically not a bug, since it was present in Vanilla. It's definitely a weird one, even for Vanilla standards though, and it's a great catch from Mirayne over on the official forums. Now I better understand why my Obsidian Edged Blade was so awesome back then.

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I feel like there's a quickly developing fine line where we're not going to enjoy Classic because it's being turned back into BfA by beating it into submission. I'm not sure how to feel about it. I also feel like the beta is taking too long because they're dragging it out to ensure it gets released after 8.2.

Let me just stamp my feet and wave my hands like a petulant child while I complain. OK, taking my ball and going home.

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1 hour ago, OldManKrypton said:

I feel like there's a quickly developing fine line where we're not going to enjoy Classic because it's being turned back into BfA by beating it into submission. I'm not sure how to feel about it. I also feel like the beta is taking too long because they're dragging it out to ensure it gets released after 8.2.

Let me just stamp my feet and wave my hands like a petulant child while I complain. OK, taking my ball and going home.

How the hell are they turning it into BFA? People are getting exactly what they demanded and whined for for years and years. Classic is going to be exactly that, classic, warts and all.

Seriously I don't get the complaining, you're getting what you wanted! The classic 'community' spammed every dev livestream with "classic when" and sent death to streamers and content creators who didn't agree with them, spammed the forums, and generally acted like entitled children, and they got what they wanted, and now that they have it, it's not good enough!

I think that's the main problem with classic, it's not the game, it's the people.

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13 minutes ago, OldManKrypton said:

Wow, you need to take a break from the internet. Or direct your anger somewhere else.

Because I don't approve of the selfish entitled, and frankly disgusting, behaviour of the classic community? Like I said before, you guys are getting exactly what you demanded, and now that you are you're not happy, but complaining more and saying it's turning into BFA?

Seriously I don't understand you lot.

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Maybe an outburst of discontent for the described people but i have to agree to some degree. That being said, where does this post say anything about changes that make the game like BfA.  You are just stoking the flame and posting something that has nothing to do with the thread.

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1 hour ago, OldManKrypton said:

Why are you even here or reading it then? Avoid the outrage, guy. Also, nobody needs your approval for anything.

Maybe not, but that wont stop me calling the selfish entitled behaviour of the classic community, the most toxic group of people this side of LoL.

I mean seriously you claim that they are 'turning classic into BFA' because what? They tuned the hit value to what it actually was?

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I think it was really poor wording I'm that response. It almost sounds like the blue is uninformed about how hit and hit cap works.  Saying that their is some code that causes the first hit % to be ignored makes it sound like that one hit isn't important. What I believe he meant to really say is that the formula to calculate your chance to miss CHANGES from 304 to 305 weapon skill. Here is what has always been known to be the formula for weapon skill and hit rating:

skilldiff = (Attacker Weapon Skill) - (Target Defense Skill)

if (skillDiff < -10)
missChance -= (skillDiff + 10) * 0.4 - 1.0
else
missChance -= skillDiff * 0.1

*credit to omakaroni

Edited by seeth07
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I fail to see how the game is going to end up like BfA while they're keeping everything authentic exactly the way it was in Vanilla, and checking every report if it's in line with their reference client. Keep the discussions civil folks and refrain from trolling, or we'll be forced to swing the hammer.

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7 hours ago, OldManKrypton said:

I feel like there's a quickly developing fine line where we're not going to enjoy Classic because it's being turned back into BfA by beating it into submission. I'm not sure how to feel about it. I also feel like the beta is taking too long because they're dragging it out to ensure it gets released after 8.2.

Let me just stamp my feet and wave my hands like a petulant child while I complain. OK, taking my ball and going home.

I really don't see the correlation how Classic will turn into BFA.  Classic is and is going to be just Classic...unaltered, untouched, unmodified.  Classic will not have any of QoL systems be put in place if that is what you are worried about.  And believe scheduled release date for Classic is possibly August/September of this year.  However you can take this with a grain of salt....  With today's available excess of information compared to the days of old Vanilla, when WoW was first launched, Classic in itself will be 'easier' to a majority of the playerbase that has already endured this original form of content.  And players will have easy access to information on how to build their characters, what to gear, and how to quest and where to go in the world of Azeroth.  Such information was not around on the internet at the time and if so there was only small smidgets of it here or there back then.

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2 hours ago, Stan said:

I fail to see how the game is going to end up like BfA while they're keeping everything authentic exactly the way it was in Vanilla, and verifying every report with their reference client

ITS LIKE SOME PEOPLE BLOW THINGS WAY OUT OF PROPORTION.

Caps for emPHASis.

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4 hours ago, seeth07 said:

I think it was really poor wording I'm that response. It almost sounds like the blue is uninformed about how hit and hit cap works.  Saying that their is some code that causes the first hit % to be ignored makes it sound like that one hit isn't important. What I believe he meant to really say is that the formula to calculate your chance to miss CHANGES from 304 to 305 weapon skill. Here is what has always been known to be the formula for weapon skill and hit rating:

skilldiff = (Attacker Weapon Skill) - (Target Defense Skill)

if (skillDiff < -10)
missChance -= (skillDiff + 10) * 0.4 - 1.0
else
missChance -= skillDiff * 0.1

*credit to omakaroni

If this is true, blizzards post would absolutely misslead. This formula basically says we have a "penalty" if targets defensivskill is 10 or more points higher than a my attackskill. This means the needed additional hitrating for hitcap depends on my attackrating. The first additional 1%  would not be useless, this would be a complete wrong statement. We just need proportionally more hitrating if we have less than 10 difference. 

So i think there is another code and not that formula which makes a difference?

Edited by Allseye

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OK, clearly I hit a nerve. Two things. One, I can be wrong and admit it, certainly. Two, apparently civility and respect have long since been forgotten here and it's OK to attack people relentlessly. It'll be noted in future subs.

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11 hours ago, OldManKrypton said:

I feel like there's a quickly developing fine line where we're not going to enjoy Classic because it's being turned back into BfA by beating it into submission. I'm not sure how to feel about it. I also feel like the beta is taking too long because they're dragging it out to ensure it gets released after 8.2.

Let me just stamp my feet and wave my hands like a petulant child while I complain. OK, taking my ball and going home.

Just because players know mostly everything about classic doesn’t mean it will go the same way as BFA. BFA is beat into submission by winey entitled casual gamers that have conned the dev teams into adding features that quite literally submit the game. dungeon/raid finder, flying mounts, world quests for easy loot, dailies, sharding, cross realm grouping. The Classic community will thrive because these things absent.

private server players have already analyzed the game nearly to its limit. It’s been proven that the sense of community and social structure is why people always come back. They already know it’s a relatively simple game with simple mechanics. 

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1 hour ago, OldManKrypton said:

OK, clearly I hit a nerve. Two things. One, I can be wrong and admit it, certainly. Two, apparently civility and respect have long since been forgotten here and it's OK to attack people relentlessly. It'll be noted in future subs.

See here's the thing. The response you're getting to your (honestly not that bad - incorrect, but not bad) post has nothing to do with you or your post. The instant anyone pro-Classic says anything even remotely negative concerning BfA the BfAers get butthurt. The exact same thing happens when BfAers say bad things about Classic. And around and around it goes and then after reading 349438234 posts trashing BfA/Classic (select whichever one you're sworn to protect for some bizzare reason) people have outbursts towards the next negative post they read.

Now for my money, your post wasn't bad at all, it was just incorrect and not really related to the news at all - in fact the news is about Blizzard keeping things exactly as they were in patch 1.12 - and then others reacted badly not because you're incorrect or were particularly nasty, they just saw "BfA bad, Classic good, Blizzard ruin Classic", which isn't really at all what you said. Hell, you even finished off your post by acknowledging that you were basically throwing a bit of a tantrum (which I found funny and totally disarmed any negativity of your post), so really, the reaction has nothing to do with you.

As for the civility thing I can assure you this particular site is remarkably civil compared to... well most other places when it comes to WoW (just try to dare read our facebook comments..jeez).

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11 minutes ago, Starym said:

See here's the thing. The response you're getting to your (honestly not that bad - incorrect, but not bad) post has nothing to do with you or your post. The instant anyone pro-Classic says anything even remotely negative concerning BfA the BfAers get butthurt. The exact same thing happens when BfAers say bad things about Classic. And around and around it goes and then after reading 349438234 posts trashing BfA/Classic (select whichever one you're sworn to protect for some bizzare reason) people have outbursts towards the next negative post they read.

Now for my money, your post wasn't bad at all, it was just incorrect and not really related to the news at all - in fact the news is about Blizzard keeping things exactly as they were in patch 1.12 - and then others reacted badly not because you're incorrect or were particularly nasty, they just saw "BfA bad, Classic good, Blizzard ruin Classic", which isn't really at all what you said. Hell, you even finished off your post by acknowledging that you were basically throwing a bit of a tantrum (which I found funny and totally disarmed any negativity of your post), so really, the reaction has nothing to do with you.

As for the civility thing I can assure you this particular site is remarkably civil compared to... well most other places when it comes to WoW (just try to dare read our facebook comments..jeez).

Right, the "tantrum" acknowledgment at the end was supposed to be the diffuser of such an inane comment. I was making it known I was my own antagonist and for no reason. Instead, outrage. I just don't care for all the personal/party attacks that are just relentless. We live in a society where it's OK to just bash and bash and bash and the only way to have any control is by canceling my sub and just not participating. I do appreciate the site though and the stories and wish you all the very best.

Edited by OldManKrypton

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6 hours ago, OldManKrypton said:

OK, clearly I hit a nerve. Two things. One, I can be wrong and admit it, certainly. Two, apparently civility and respect have long since been forgotten here and it's OK to attack people relentlessly. It'll be noted in future subs.

Also you: "Let me just stamp my feet and wave my hands like a petulant child while I complain"

Maybe don't pretend you're being a petulant child in your OP, and people won't treat you like a petulant child in their responses.

Not to mention that you didn't even explain your initial position on WHY Classic was going to be BfA 2.0, which just added to the "petulant child" part.

It's fine to have an opinion, but dear god man, back it up with SOMETHING, ANYTHING.  Otherwise, don't be surprised when you get called out for being flat wrong and contributing to a larger problem. 

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