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Starym

Ragnaros Down World First by APES

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As the level 60ies multiplied after Jokerd's WF, APES guild managed to gather enough max level players and went to visit the firelord. After getting enough players through the Hydraxian Waterlords quest line and having the required number of Eternal Quintessences ready, they went into Molten Core just a few hours ago and stormed though all the way to Ragnaros. They even managed to get the big red guy down in 1 try!

And so Classic's first raid has been cleared in the first week, 5 days after launch! We don't know if an Asian guild got the kill sooner, but so far it seems this is the first one.

Congratulations go out to all APES players who pushed to 60, through the attunement and Waterlords quests, all the way through to Rag himself for that Classic World First!

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im level 6 and still running back to my dead body being camped by a rat with a damn candle on his head, wait for me ill be there soon. 🥴

Edited by holysister
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Why I did not note the name of all the people saying "yeah back then it was hard AF we had to farm for hours fire resistance stuff in order to clean ragnaros" to submit this and say "admit it dude, back then no one had any *filtered* idea what to do"

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Funny thing is that most of these players likely had very limited gear too.

 

Though did Blizz even test MC in the beta? Also, I feel that the 1.12 version of Ragnaros was significantly nerfed compared to the original release Ragnaros.

Still, if they basically pugged Ragnaros, makes me feel bad for all those fail pugs who couldn't do the 110 LFR version of MC.

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I main tanked and was raid leader for a guild in vanilla doing MC and it was a lot harder than what I saw in that video, and we were all very well geared. Something doesn't seem right with this at all.

 

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45 minutes ago, OxO said:

I main tanked and was raid leader for a guild in vanilla doing MC and it was a lot harder than what I saw in that video, and we were all very well geared. Something doesn't seem right with this at all.

 

it is sure legit, the vanilla bosses were never hard, if you compare it to the bosses in bfa

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4 hours ago, holysister said:

im level 6 and still running back to my dead body being camped by a rat with a damn candle on his head, wait for me ill be there soon. 🥴

Why did you try to take candle though?

2 hours ago, OxO said:

I main tanked and was raid leader for a guild in vanilla doing MC and it was a lot harder than what I saw in that video, and we were all very well geared. Something doesn't seem right with this at all.

 

Ragnaros at the end of Vanilla had NOTHING to do with Ragnaros at the beginning, or even at the middle when he was actually killable. I'm not sure if this version in Classic is even more easy (due to the date coming from private servers), but I know that by the end of Vanilla (regardles of the better gear) he was pretty much a joke. So the mistake here was not using the first killable version (or even a better tuned version of the unkillable Rag), but since a whole stupid big deal was made to "no changes" they had to go with the tuning that was in effect in the patch they chose (or the private server stats they got).

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Exactly, using 1.12 (which has vastly better gear and talents available than the actual 1.0 launch) and #nochanges made Rag even more of a joke than he would already be with 15 years of knowledge 🙂 

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6 hours ago, Starym said:

Ragnaros at the end of Vanilla had NOTHING to do with Ragnaros at the beginning, or even at the middle when he was actually killable. I'm not sure if this version in Classic is even more easy (due to the date coming from private servers), but I know that by the end of Vanilla (regardles of the better gear) he was pretty much a joke. So the mistake here was not using the first killable version (or even a better tuned version of the unkillable Rag), but since a whole stupid big deal was made to "no changes" they had to go with the tuning that was in effect in the patch they chose (or the private server stats they got).

 

I didn't know all this, maybe I just skimmed over all this info about classic in the run up to it being released and I never played on private servers, but this is awful.

I only remember the Ragnaros (and Ony) as you say at the beginning and I guess mid, soon after having Rag and Ony on farm but it took a lot to get to that stage, guild split up after a while so I never got to experience easy Ragnaros. 

I wanted classic, like real vanilla, the first version and I thought this is what we were getting, the hard MC, hard Onyxia etc., not this, not with the raids being smashed in less than a week with people in rubbish gear.

Put a really bad taste on classic now this has, like I cba with retail anymore, I really can't but now knowing that they've put up some private server easy tuned version of vanilla ? Really pissed off... 😞

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Its a bit disappointing yea OxO 😞 more disappointing of all is that, actually, the private servers have been buffing the health / armor / damage of elites and bosses for quite a while now, so actually WoW Classic's version of Ragnaros and Onyxia (as well as all dungeons, which is why the dungeon AoE grind meta is going on) are way, way easier than anything in most private servers!

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14 minutes ago, OxO said:

I wanted classic, like real vanilla, the first version and I thought this is what we were getting, the hard MC, hard Onyxia etc., not this, not with the raids being smashed in less than a week with people in rubbish gear.

It's basically Naxxramas patch, without ZG, AQ and Naxx active. Starting with 1.0 would have been a mess, as it lacked some improvements. Probably also a security issues, so it meant even more time being spent on fixing exploits and bugs than it did for 1.12. This is what I wrote about few months ago, it's impossible to make everyone happy, because some were expecting to start with earlier patch (it has been stated multiple times, that won't be the case). Anyway, even Naxxramas will likely be cleared quite fast, when it becomes available. Let's face it, vanilla bosses weren't that hard, they had very few mechanics, compared to now. For average player, it was hard to find enough time for grind, organised guild and numbers of certain classes required to clear that content (impossible on some servers with lower population).

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Yeah the positives outweight the negatives for sure. If anything maybe they could have buffed the elite and raid damage / health.

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37 minutes ago, Seksi said:

Yeah the positives outweight the negatives for sure. If anything maybe they could have buffed the elite and raid damage / health.

I dunno for me it shown no guts or vision on Blizzard's side. They knew it was all gonna die immediately (and more importantly, whenever any normal guild gets into the raids it's gonna be trivial) but they put "no changes" and a later patch ahead of that because they were scared to say "this is what WE think vanilla was in spirit".

This i something all big games devs are doing, putting their audience in charge of their game, because they either have no vision for it or because they are scared to go against what """players""" demand. As stupid and annoying as the "you think you do but you don't" line was, at least it was taking a stand and saying "this is what we think". Nowadays it's just devs doing whatever the *filtered* the loudest (and usually dumbest) section of the playerbase is asking, just so they can hide behind "well hey, you asked for it".

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Its a hard line to tread Starym. But I agree, it would have been more fun to have harder bosses since it will be a while until new content arrives.

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14 minutes ago, Seksi said:

Its a hard line to tread Starym. But I agree, it would have been more fun to have harder bosses since it will be a while until new content arrives.

I mean I know what you're saying and what you mean, but, no, it really isn't. Not talking about just Classic here as I can't say I'm that invested in the difficulty etc, this is more of a general gaming gripe, but having a vision for your game and implementing it, even if it turns out wrong and your playerbase not liking it is the ONLY thing that will ever bring us interesting and good games. Otherwise it's just mass appeal throw more *filtered* that people say they want at people (even though they might actually like something else) until the end of time.

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13 hours ago, holysister said:

im level 6 and still running back to my dead body being camped by a rat with a damn candle on his head, wait for me ill be there soon. 🥴

No take candle!!

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2 hours ago, Starym said:

I dunno for me it shown no guts or vision on Blizzard's side. They knew it was all gonna die immediately (and more importantly, whenever any normal guild gets into the raids it's gonna be trivial) but they put "no changes" and a later patch ahead of that because they were scared to say "this is what WE think vanilla was in spirit".

This i something all big games devs are doing, putting their audience in charge of their game, because they either have no vision for it or because they are scared to go against what """players""" demand. As stupid and annoying as the "you think you do but you don't" line was, at least it was taking a stand and saying "this is what we think". Nowadays it's just devs doing whatever the *filtered* the loudest (and usually dumbest) section of the playerbase is asking, just so they can hide behind "well hey, you asked for it".

But this is the thing, if they had made changes a pretty vocal group would have made a hell of a noise about it. The no changes thing came because of them, you're right, but if blizz had changed anything, it wouldn't be right, and wouldn't be what people asked for and the whole reason they made classic.

As for all the stuff about private servers, iirc they ignored a fair chunk of private server data since it was largely guesswork (good and fairly accurate, but still guesswork). There were some interesting tests done by players which were submitted and retested by blizz regarding crit numbers, hit numbers etc for example.

These kills back up what people have said about vanilla for a long time, it wasn't harder, it was just a pain in the rear due to the grind, retail is just a different type of grind, but there's a lot more mechanics making it actually difficult to do mythic raiding, higher M+ etc. PvP will be interesting when it properly comes mind. 

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You do realize that you need reverred rep for the vial in the Waterlords quest.  The repop for the mobs beyond honored is one hour. To reach reverred it would take about 3 days of raiding straight WITH 40 PPL!.  This is simply not possible 5 days in by a reputable guild.  It may be possible through using bots but nobody could have this done legit in 5 days.  Furthermore the Ony kill was so obviously a glitch kill it was pathetic.  When Ony feared and cleared her aggro table she would have targeted a dps in the wall and reset.  She never did, she stayed on the tanks and dps never got feared.  Clearly a glitch cheat.  I can only hope APES is smacked with a ban hammer by Blizz since they have video proof of cheating the system. 

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45 minutes ago, Bobbis said:

But this is the thing, if they had made changes a pretty vocal group would have made a hell of a noise about it. The no changes thing came because of them, you're right, but if blizz had changed anything, it wouldn't be right, and wouldn't be what people asked for and the whole reason they made classic.

You really thing ANYONE would be upset if they set MC and Onyxia to earlier than patch 1.12 values? Cos I'm sure no one that wanted Classic would be upset if they got an earlier, more difficult version of raids (unless they used the unkillable version).

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39 minutes ago, Orgrym said:

You do realize that you need reverred rep for the vial in the Waterlords quest.  The repop for the mobs beyond honored is one hour. To reach reverred it would take about 3 days of raiding straight WITH 40 PPL!.  This is simply not possible 5 days in by a reputable guild.  It may be possible through using bots but nobody could have this done legit in 5 days.  Furthermore the Ony kill was so obviously a glitch kill it was pathetic.  When Ony feared and cleared her aggro table she would have targeted a dps in the wall and reset.  She never did, she stayed on the tanks and dps never got feared.  Clearly a glitch cheat.  I can only hope APES is smacked with a ban hammer by Blizz since they have video proof of cheating the system. 

Um Fear Ward? Also no one used bots, the rep grind is easier cos it's a later patch (or you have completely wrong data), as I watched KennyMarsh streaming killing mobs in Silithus getting the rep.

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21 hours ago, Starym said:

Why did you try to take candle though?

Ragnaros at the end of Vanilla had NOTHING to do with Ragnaros at the beginning, or even at the middle when he was actually killable. I'm not sure if this version in Classic is even more easy (due to the date coming from private servers), but I know that by the end of Vanilla (regardles of the better gear) he was pretty much a joke. So the mistake here was not using the first killable version (or even a better tuned version of the unkillable Rag), but since a whole stupid big deal was made to "no changes" they had to go with the tuning that was in effect in the patch they chose (or the private server stats they got).

Well, since you think it's so hard. Wait till all the other raids comes out (which wasn't as easy as the two first). Every single boss will go down in 2-5 hours of release. Countless people on stream has stated this, and to be fair, why fight that? It is a lot less mechanics, and a lot less fast phased. You can take your time to think and chill during a boss encounter. Grinding and 'takes longer' =/= harder. 

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3 hours ago, Znifler said:

Grinding and 'takes longer' =/= harder. 

This is what's always amazed me. Like I understand if you like games that are slower, or take more grinding. But it's so weird to see them talk about how it makes the game harder at the same time. Like I've definitely seen people say that needing to stock ammo or grind soul shards makes it harder and that's so strange to me.

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