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Simulation Question

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Hello Warriors


Looking for some clerification here based on simulation. First of all my armory link is:




Dont let the gear lvl fool you, I use to raid top tier heroics in cata, just took a break this expansion and came back with my old group of friends starting heroics again. Now I want to ask about weights. I will explain how I go about doing what I am doing. Just tell me if I am doing it right.


1) Tuesday night, I raid and I get 3 new pieces of gear. I equiped these 3 pieces of gear and sim my self with the following options: standard pathwerk with 10k iterations, ALL BUFFS toggled, and ALL DEBUFFS toggled, and ALL STATS toggled. I have time so the 5-10 minute wait time for the sim is not a problem. So the program than spits me data. I than divide these values by 2 to keep relativity the same because you cannot import values above 9.98 to ask mr robot. Again its like math class. What ever you do to 1 side, you have to do to the other. I was given:


Scale Factors for Semih Damage Per Second   Str Agi AP Exp Hit InvHit Crit Haste Mastery Wdps Wspeed WOHdps WOHspeed Scale Factors 4.72 0.29 2.16 11.04 12.50 2.14 5.33 2.70 4.94 11.30 2289.85 5.38 924.96 Normalized 1.00 0.06 0.46 2.34 2.65 0.45 1.13 0.57 1.05 2.39 484.74 1.14 195.81


Dont mind the actual values they are old and not new. I just use it here to show that all the values that I got under scale factors, I divded by 2. Than I input these DIVIDED values into ask mr robot and it spits out for me my gems and reforges. I go and get them. Log out and update my armory. Than I sim again. It spits out a dps value which I write down, along with new set of values based on REFORGED and  GEMMED gear. I than divided these by 2 and input these into ask mr robot. Most of the time this step results in same reforge and gem patterns as last step but I always make sure because sometimes mastery > str and thus the enchant for gloves and bracers change. I than sim again and write down new dps. This dps value is the HIGHEST sim value for me gear. This is where the chain stops.


Now I am wondering 2 big things. First one being all my sims were done with thoks tail equipped. I heard a rumor that if you sim with thoks tail, it provides false values because it double dips into scaling of the % stats that it provides you. I mean my values at the moment show Mastery > Str and that just seems not possible at ilvl 553. I tried taking off the thoks and simming my self. New values of str was str:4.59 and mastery: 4.11. Can I get a confirmation on what to do correctly. Equip thoks or not when simming.

Question 2 being can someone explain me the normalized values. I did not try plugging those into ask mr robot but are those all in relativity to the str as being 1.00 and everything based on str. Should I be dividing by 2 and inputting those or should I be inputting normalized values into Ask mr robot.

thanks for the help, hope it wasnt too confusing

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Hi semih, and thanks for posting this!


First of all, don't take what I'm going to say here for gold, since I'm no simcraft developer, therefore I can only speak from personal experience.


Looking at your first question, I am not aware of such a bug in simcraft, but it is still possible there may be one. However, the values you are showing me don't look strange at all. Your crit chance is pretty high, so it is normal that mastery gets better than strength, especially with Thok's Tail Tip. I don't even have TTT yet (damn you game) and yet Mastery>Strength is still true for me. (There even comes a point where Mastery becomes better than Crit if you don't have TTT).


To answer your second question, the normalized values are just the exact same weights SimC gives you, but brought down to more manageable levels, kind of in the same way you divide everything by 2 to have smaller numbers. In your case, for example, Str's value was 4.72, so everything was divided by 4.72 (instead of 2) and these new valuesare what SimC calls "normalized values".


I hope this helps, and if anything wasn't clear or if you have anymore questions feel free to ask them,



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In your case, for example, Str's value was 4.72, so everything was divided by 4.72 (instead of 2) and these new valuesare what SimC calls "normalized values".

Exactly. The reason this might not have been readily apparent, Mr. semi, is because you're a warrior, which has a particularly low weighting for their primary stat. While it is very common these days for most classes to gem for pure secondary stats, usually the reason for this is because gems are allotted 2x the points of secondaries, and the value of 2 points of secondary > 1 point of primary. With Fury though, even 1 point of (a good) secondary > 1 point of strength. So whereas normalizing by setting the primary stat to 1.0 makes sense for most classes, it looks odd for us. Edited by nefigah
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thanks for the help everyone, I did ask this problem to a buddy also and il post it here also because I found it to be informative towards the TTT bug.


"The issue with Thoks is not in Sim-C, it's on AMR.
[10:56:48 AM] Warriorsarri: When you sim your char to get stat weights you'll get a set of numbers that are correct.
[10:58:11 AM] Warriorsarri: when you then put them into AMR, and you press optimize and you have thoks equipped the site will "add" the amplification bonus to haste and mastery, meaning mastery and haste will be valued higher then they really are
[10:59:28 AM] Warriorsarri: If you want to avoid this issue you need to de-equip Thoks on AMR, you can either just log out without it equipped or you can press Thoks inside AMR and just switch it to some other trinket that dosn't have any reforgeable stats"


Double confirmation about my doubts of mastery > strength. I tested with the new way. I removed my trinket. Kept the same values weights from my 2nd sim. 3rd sim was to confirm dps values. I optimized again with my trinket off, and only change was that 180 str on bracers. I guess im not there yet for 170 mastery > 180 str. This step might not be different for others because the delta ( change in difference) between the 2 stats is just so much greater that 170>180. In my case it was, and gold is not an issue for me anyways.

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