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Starym

Swapping Back to a Covenant in the Shadowlands Beta

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Covenants are always a hot topic, as they should be as one of the main features of the Shadowlands, and today we're diving into the hottest topic of them all: Covenant switching. As we know, actually changing Covenants is easy, you talk to some NPCs, click a few "Yes" buttons and that's it. Returning to a Covenant you've already abandoned previously isn't quite as easy, and is the main focus of the penalty for swapping around too much. In this week's beta build we get to see how some of the process of getting back into the good graces of your former colleagues works.

First off, while you're going through this repentance journey you'll still be in your current Covenant, presumably then being able to join your old one in the same way as you would others you hadn't previously abandoned. The first step is a quest, specific for each Covenant, where you have to do various activities in your former Covenant's zone (aka the one you're trying to get back into) to fill out a bar.

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Filling the bar isn't that hard, as you can kill rare mobs in the zone for 6% progress, World Quests for 8% and dungeon bosses for 12%.

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This part shouldn't take long, and Toweliee has actually already done it on the beta quite quikcly, and you can see how he reacts when he turns it in:

So, as expected (and as Blizzard told us), this process will take a significant amount of time (weeks), and the current quest on the beta is only the first step, ending in this:

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Whether the "come back at a later date" part is just there due to the beta, or if that's how the process will be time-gated in the live release as well, is unclear, but we'll definitely have to do a lot more to re-impress our former Covenant and have them allow us to return. Also, changing this part of the Covenant swapping process to something simpler/faster (even just making it this one quest) probably wouldn't remove all issues players are having surrounding the Covenant ability exclusivity, but it would definitely help. And so it seems that reducing this process to a simple quest might be one of the things Blizzard does before Shadowlands launches to appease the growing dissatisfied crowd demanding a change in the Covenant system, and they've started testing the process to see the community reactions.

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Can i somehow delete my characters permamently, maybe through ticket? I'm an altoholic and i can't stand it any longer. I was hopeful that for me, after this terrible expansion to play (you couldn't buy essences before 8.3) they will take notes and learn from their mistakes. Nah. Can't tell if changing spec in Shadowlands is worse or not. Right now all you need are essences, gear to swap and you're good to go, but it's still a task. In Shadowlands you will need not only gear, (if your primary spec does not use Intellect) but also TIME. It took Toweliee over 1.5 hours to hear from the covenant, that he made his first steps tOPrOvInGhISwORtH.

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Even the first step alone would already be way to much. I want to be able to finish raid and then go m+ immediately, for example.

I don't want to do 1.5hours of stuff before that... 

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People still having a hard time to understand this even after one year but: They. Don't. Meant. To be. Swapable. Yes, I know some of you having a hard time accepting this and still fighting your one-sided war but I think it's time to move on. You have to choose one and live with it.

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We know that they aren't meant to be sweapable, that's the problem.

It's just completely stupid. That would be totally fine, if it wasn't connected to so much player power. People on the ptr are already specifically looking for certain spec and covenant combinations. 

Now imagine you need the blink that comes with one of the covenants (Venthyr i believe), but the class ability of Venthyr is absolut trash for your spec. On the other hand, some classes are lucky and get both. That's so unbelievably stupid.

Make it difficult to swap, that's fine, but then make it an entirely cosmetic thing.

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There are several ways to view this but the end result is about the same and alot of people are not going to be sold on the idea.  Players are split on Blizzard's concept of Covenants.  You have a broken system that restricts player choice of learning and expanding on their desired classes/roles.  From DPS to Tanking or to even Healing for some Classes.  In BFA the Azerite system was a flop that restricted to 1 specialization per class due to acquisition at the start of the expansion along with a horrid gold cost on resetting Azerite Traits for desired content (THIS DOES NOT INCLUDE MIDMAXING).  The Covenant system as it stands is no different till another system is placed then another then another...till you get something in the same state that BFA currently stands.

 

 

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4 hours ago, Asakash said:

Even the first step alone would already be way to much. I want to be able to finish raid and then go m+ immediately, for example.

I don't want to do 1.5hours of stuff before that... 

Then don't switch, which is why it's intended that way. To not switch. They had stated in the beginning how they intended the system to be, it is not that hard of a concept to grasp almost a full year later. 

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1 hour ago, Ragingwolf said:

There are several ways to view this but the end result is about the same and alot of people are not going to be sold on the idea.  Players are split on Blizzard's concept of Covenants.  You have a broken system that restricts player choice of learning and expanding on their desired classes/roles.  From DPS to Tanking or to even Healing for some Classes.  In BFA the Azerite system was a flop that restricted to 1 specialization per class due to acquisition at the start of the expansion along with a horrid gold cost on resetting Azerite Traits for desired content (THIS DOES NOT INCLUDE MIDMAXING).  The Covenant system as it stands is no different till another system is placed then another then another...till you get something in the same state that BFA currently stands.

 

 

I think you mean minmaxing, but as I see it regardless of the systems being integrated right now, NOTHING will come to be the atrocious state that was BFA ever. Guaranteed they learned from that atrocity lol.

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This is not a complaint they're going to budge on, this is easier though perhaps longer than swapping between Aldor and Scryer in TBC, which was also meant to be a mostly permanent choice, and to a lesser degree swapping between Frenzyheart and Oracles in WotLK. I imagine there will be a Feat of Strength for having been all four covenants.

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40 minutes ago, Serrated said:

Then don't switch, which is why it's intended that way. To not switch. They had stated in the beginning how they intended the system to be, it is not that hard of a concept to grasp almost a full year later. 

Yeah, I know that it's intended that way, and i grasp the concept. The concept though is horrible.

37 minutes ago, Serrated said:

I think you mean minmaxing, but as I see it regardless of the systems being integrated right now, NOTHING will come to be the atrocious state that was BFA ever. Guaranteed they learned from that atrocity lol.

It will be at least just as bad, imo. For some classes, there will be different best covenant coice für each role AND content. 
And you can be sure, as it's already the case on ptr, that you will have to have the right covenant for many pog groups, in order to participate. 

Everyone, who wants to do 2 different contents (what you will probably again be forced to do, like m+ or raid, or generally pve when you want best gear for pvp), or play 2 different specs on one char, will have to deal with this horrible restriction.

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Let me break it down by splitting the player base into 4 categories on how the Covenant system will affect gameplay.  This is just a rough and basic outlook.  Ask yourselves which one do you fall into.

1)  Players that have zero intention on progressing past a story perspective and are content in doing the following: World Quests, Normal Difficulty Dungeons, LFR, Exploring the given Zones, and settling for Basic entry Quest Gear.  Doing the bare minimal in the expansion.  Sitting in LFG to spout trivial matters or aka "troll" the general populace.  Then whatever Covenant you pick for either your Characters lore (RP perspective) or Aesthetic purpose will have 0 effect on your gameplay.

2) Players that will be doing Rated Arenas with 2v2 or 3v3 and or Rated Battlegrounds.  This will have an impact on how you will be playing your character and progressing through the ranks.  Because alot of these Covenant Abilities will be OP for several Classes.  For those that constantly switch for DPS or Heals one Covenant may not accommodate both Roles in a perspective manner.  When there is a 3-10% on Power Gain from the given Covenants there is alot to mull over before just picking the one that looks Aesthetically best.  Some of these PvP'ers may even attempt making another 'mirror' alt of a certain Class and a different Role to avoid Covenant swapping.  

3) Players that dabble into a bit of everything in PvP and PvE and try to provide the most in Role selection with select classes.  This will have a strong impact on the content you are wishing to pursue.  Mythic+ and Raiding on Heroic and or Mythic Tier difficulties will have a strong impact on your selection of Covenant.  Specially if you plan to multi Role on harder content to accommodate what is needed Role wise to fill the Group or the Raid.  As mentioned in #2 when a Covenant for a given Class can give a Power Gain from 3-10%+ on a Specific Role then it becomes frustrating for alot of people.  These people want the best out of the Roles they will be using throughout the expansion.  

4) The 1% hardcore players.  Lets just say you have your work cut out for you once this expansion goes live.  Not only #2 and #3 can have a strong impact on what you wish to do you will be force to grind 5x (if not more) as much than previous expansions if you wish to go the extreme.  I can see these players making multiple alts of a given Class/Role and picking one of each Covenant.  When Season 1 does go live these individuals will be running same specialization alts with difference in Role Selection in a multitude of content before the start of the Mythic World First Race for SL.  They will consider doing this to bypass Covenant Swapping and not do the "Redemption" procedure to go back to a specific Covenant for just 1 Character.

TL;DR Version

#PullTheRipChord Blizzard

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6 hours ago, Eshy said:

People still having a hard time to understand this even after one year but: They. Don't. Meant. To be. Swapable. Yes, I know some of you having a hard time accepting this and still fighting your one-sided war but I think it's time to move on. You have to choose one and live with it.

Bro, everyone understand they're not meant to be swapped. That's the problem, they shouldn't create something that's not meant to be swapped, it's just bad design, it's punishing choice, not making it meaningfull. 

 

  

2 hours ago, SidonisAntares said:

This is not a complaint they're going to budge on, this is easier though perhaps longer than swapping between Aldor and Scryer in TBC, which was also meant to be a mostly permanent choice, and to a lesser degree swapping between Frenzyheart and Oracles in WotLK. I imagine there will be a Feat of Strength for having been all four covenants.

 

Except TBC was 13 years ago, and it was already bas design back then, AND more importantly it didn't affect how efficient you were in raid and dungeon.

Edited by Mugendai
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27 minutes ago, Mugendai said:

Except TBC was 13 years ago, and it was already bas design back then, AND more importantly it didn't affect how efficient you were in raid and dungeon.

I never said I agreed, just that they're not going to change it. They've been receiving feedback since BlizzCon19 and still haven't removed how effective Covenant choices will be on raids and M+.

And the Aldor/Scryer choices were punitive in different ways (since M+ didn't exist yet), if you were expected to min/max for your raiding guild. The shoulder enchants were not identical originally, and to this day if you're a JC or enchanter you have to go with Aldor/Scryer respectively if you want those recipes. Fire resist craftables were on Aldor, Arcane resist was on Scryer, and when the content was current, you needed both for their respective encounters, so you had to make sure you had an Aldor blacksmith and a Scryer blacksmith in the guild, and again with Leatherworking if you had any druid tanks, or else pay out the nose for them. Tailors had to know in advance which spellthread would be best for them, so that they had the correct leg enchant. Alchemists needed to know to choose Scryer for Elixir of Major Firepower.

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2 hours ago, SidonisAntares said:

I never said I agreed, just that they're not going to change it. They've been receiving feedback since BlizzCon19 and still haven't removed how effective Covenant choices will be on raids and M+.

And the Aldor/Scryer choices were punitive in different ways (since M+ didn't exist yet), if you were expected to min/max for your raiding guild. The shoulder enchants were not identical originally, and to this day if you're a JC or enchanter you have to go with Aldor/Scryer respectively if you want those recipes. Fire resist craftables were on Aldor, Arcane resist was on Scryer, and when the content was current, you needed both for their respective encounters, so you had to make sure you had an Aldor blacksmith and a Scryer blacksmith in the guild, and again with Leatherworking if you had any druid tanks, or else pay out the nose for them. Tailors had to know in advance which spellthread would be best for them, so that they had the correct leg enchant. Alchemists needed to know to choose Scryer for Elixir of Major Firepower.

Yes, but there was always a way to get everything, and you could just pay what your guild didn't have.

This is totally different, you can't just pay to get an other covenant for yourself.

Edited by Mugendai

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35 minutes ago, Mugendai said:

Yes, but there was always a way to get everything, and you could just pay what your guild didn't have.

This is totally different, you can't just pay to get an other covenant for yourself.

Could that be why I said that this was easier although longer? It might be!

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It's about time they push something that isn't meant to change out.  Seriously, this whiny attitude boils down to "Why can't i be the best at everything all the time" and that attitude doesn't belong in an MMORPG.  You aren't meant to be the best at everything, that's why it's a choice.

I hope they don't cave in and make it easier.  It's supposed to be an actual choice that requires thought, to where maybe the option that isn't as good but works across content is better than the "best" choice for each if they are in two different covenants.

Edited by Nobleshield
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1 hour ago, Nobleshield said:

It's about time they push something that isn't meant to change out.  Seriously, this whiny attitude boils down to "Why can't i be the best at everything all the time" and that attitude doesn't belong in an MMORPG.  You aren't meant to be the best at everything, that's why it's a choice.

I hope they don't cave in and make it easier.  It's supposed to be an actual choice that requires thought, to where maybe the option that isn't as good but works across content is better than the "best" choice for each if they are in two different covenants.

Since you believe you know more and think everyone is either crying or 'whiny' over the situation of Covenants please explained how Dratnos in this video of SL is completely wrong.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oBqI2SRDCm0

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On 9/3/2020 at 11:50 AM, Asakash said:

Yeah, I know that it's intended that way, and i grasp the concept. The concept though is horrible.

It will be at least just as bad, imo. For some classes, there will be different best covenant coice für each role AND content. 
And you can be sure, as it's already the case on ptr, that you will have to have the right covenant for many pog groups, in order to participate. 

Everyone, who wants to do 2 different contents (what you will probably again be forced to do, like m+ or raid, or generally pve when you want best gear for pvp), or play 2 different specs on one char, will have to deal with this horrible restriction.

Trust me I get the issues associated with the concept but unless something drastic changes or they realize the problems down the road it's kind of pointless to complain about it  now ? Hell, they are probably well aware of it but plan on again doing strict tuning, numerical design changes etc and so forth down the road until launch. If not we have to settle for what it becomes or just not play it if it's that unbearable. 

To me though, no other iteration of the game has turned me away from playing like 90% of an expansion that BFA was. WoD was better to me because classes didn't feel like garbage to play, the content it did have felt decent/amazing doing it and it wasn't a constant slot machine fest like BfA (and Legion was). I'd rather have content cut or scrapped then have an over abundance of content to do that feels like a drag/slog to go through continuously with grinds out the wazoo.

Edited by Serrated
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3 minutes ago, Serrated said:

Trust me I get the issues associated with the concept but unless something drastic changes or they realize the problems down the road it's kind of pointless to complain about it  now ? Hell, they are probably well aware of it but plan on again going strict tuning, numerical design changes etc and so forth down the road until launch. If not we have to settle for what it becomes I'd just not play it if it's that unbearable. 

To me though, no other iteration of the game has turned me away from playing like 90% of an expansion then BFA has. WoD was better to me because classes didn't feel line garbage to play, the content it did have felt decent/amazing doing it and it wasn't a constant slot machine fest like BfA (and Legion was). I'd rather have content cut or scrapped then have an over abundance of content to do that feels like a drag/slog to go through continuously with grinds out the wazoo.

Yeah, I totally agree. I'm so happy that BFA is over and that i will most likely be able to have alts again, because i love having more than one character.
For BFA, i couldn't even stand to keep my main up to date, so i quit playing at the start of 8.3.

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On 9/11/2020 at 5:21 PM, Asakash said:

Yeah, I totally agree. I'm so happy that BFA is over and that i will most likely be able to have alts again, because i love having more than one character.
For BFA, i couldn't even stand to keep my main up to date, so i quit playing at the start of 8.3.

I played through , though I did take a CLassic Break in 8.2

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On 9/14/2020 at 12:18 AM, Hentryk said:

I played through , though I did take a CLassic Break in 8.2

You deserve massive cookies for the eternal suffering you endured lol. I also played classic for a bit, twas fun.

 

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