wow Player Leaves Mythic+ Run 7 Min Before the End for Insane Reason

[clover 4]

I've been tooling around the idea of building a reviews site, but haven't for the reason that it would likely be abused.  To the person who said that most reviews online are negative, that is simply not true. If that were the case, anytime you looked up a service or a restaurant you'd never see great reviews. I work in digital marketing and we promote reviews on many of our client's sites. It can work when done properly, it's just that our community is going to make it difficult to properly implement. 

Edited February 7, 2021 by clover

[devchonka 1]

2 hours ago, Hotpants said:

 

remember the gearscore addon back in wotlk? it's pretty much the same thing, just updated.

It's not. We talk about leaving m+. In wotkl, leaving a raid would not affect your gear score. There is no thing like out of time record or something. Thats completly another topic.

Raider.Io brings toxicity to WoW and Blizzard should remake m+ so that a leave is less of a time waste for the rest of the group.

Edited February 7, 2021 by devchonka

[ResoWho 68]

56 minutes ago, solitha said:

They have that in Overwatch. It's pointless. People ignored it. So they attached a small XP bonus. Now people throw them out like candy just to get the XP bonus.

but overwatch or shooter in general are pretty different. i played cs 1.6 and cs go competetive (and 1.5 also but mostly on lan) and you never checked a players backround except you wanted to take part in a tounament. meanwhile in wow you even check raider.io score on low level keys or twink runs. also you got addons to check those scores while you dont play overwatch or cs go with addons to check a players match history. 

[Grumar 185]

I don't see why this is an insane reason, considering IO score has become the new gear score it's more important to raise your io score than anything else. this mentality has been fostered and flourished and is rampant in the PuG'ing community. Acting surprised by this is like acting appalled watching a cow get slaughter while eating a cheeseburger. until you stop using IO we're all part of the problem.

[Ragingwolf 286]

I'm not really surprised by this tbh I ran into this behavior constantly through BFA and through the very start of SL.  There are people that don't like 'blemishes' on their score records and highly believe if a group can't +3 or even +2 a key they up and leave toward the end of a dungeon.  Even if it means it would not increase their score like on RaiderIO.  It's one of the downsides of pugging keys when friends, your static, or even your guildies are not online to play with you and you wish to do content.

But kudos to the group to complete and time the key with one less dps if it were a Healer or Tank most groups would have to bite the bullet and drop the key a level, reform, and try again later.

[ResoWho 68]

1 hour ago, devchonka said:

Raider.Io brings toxicity to WoW and Blizzard should remake m+ so that a leave is less of a time waste for the rest of the group.

im curious, lets say not 1 of your friends or guild mates have time but you wanna do your own key. how would you decide who you gonna invite? lets assume there is no history for your dungeons either on raider.io nor on official blizzard amory site. so now you would base your invites on ilvl and achivements and trust i guess? ilvl doesnt say much except that the guy maybe did that dungeon or raid he got the loot from, its still no hint if he was good or bad. achivements are on twinks and on main chars also since the early days of achivements there addons to fake achivements aswell. 

Ok, back to reality;

dont get me wrong, raider.io causes some problems like new player dont get invites or good players cant progress cause no one invites them if they havent done a similar key allrdy.

but thats not raider.io s mistake, you could see the dungeons people did in time or not in time on official blizzard amory site. its how the community handels it. so the people themselfs bring the toxicity and i doubt it would change the behavior of a leaver if his invite was based on a m+ score or on ilvl/achivements.

the only advice i can give is that you should aim for at least 1 friend (best would be if he plays tank) on whom you can rely for m+ and open a community. everytime you do a key and someone was decent tell them about the small community and ask if they wanna join. 

Edited February 7, 2021 by ResoWho

[Helvorn 57]

One of the main reasons I stopped playing after BFA and wont play SL. This behavior is of course as old as there a MMO´s, but especially in WoW it spiraled completely out of control. This is next level toxicity and I am done with.

Raider.io or anything like that isnt the problem, its the people that go insane with it.

Edited February 7, 2021 by Helvorn

[solitha 84]

38 minutes ago, ResoWho said:

but overwatch or shooter in general are pretty different. i played cs 1.6 and cs go competetive (and 1.5 also but mostly on lan) and you never checked a players backround except you wanted to take part in a tounament. meanwhile in wow you even check raider.io score on low level keys or twink runs. also you got addons to check those scores while you dont play overwatch or cs go with addons to check a players match history. 

In OW your player rating is right up front where everyone can see it. You don't need addons or websites. Just hit tab, which you often do during a game, and there's each player's rating next to their portrait.

And it's pointless, because it's player feedback that's only given because the player giving it gets a reward. And that's what I'm driving at. People will ignore a system like you describe because it requires an effort with no reward. If you add a reward, they'll abuse it just for the reward. Either way, the feedback from it is meaningless.

r.io works as a tool, just providing bare stats by which you make your decision. From this situation, I would say the solution is that Blizzard starts tracking runs abandoned, and supplies that stat through the API so that r.io can show and/or use it.

[ResoWho 68]

2 hours ago, solitha said:

In OW your player rating is right up front where everyone can see it. You don't need addons or websites. Just hit tab, which you often do during a game, and there's each player's rating next to their portrait.

And it's pointless, because it's player feedback that's only given because the player giving it gets a reward. And that's what I'm driving at. People will ignore a system like you describe because it requires an effort with no reward. If you add a reward, they'll abuse it just for the reward. Either way, the feedback from it is meaningless.

r.io works as a tool, just providing bare stats by which you make your decision. From this situation, I would say the solution is that Blizzard starts tracking runs abandoned, and supplies that stat through the API so that r.io can show and/or use it.

well in my opinion still different from an mmo or moba game and as we see people in lol care about it and i dont think you need any reward for that. also i said that blizzard themself wouldnt do it and in my opinion an other site or raider.io would be best for something like that. just make review function on raider.io, all reviews even for twink runs written by your main characters (highest r.io score) so you stand for that with your own name. btw wowprogressed tried to use something to review people from m+ runs but in an anonym way and that side was allrdy killed by raider.io at that time.

[Chanchi 3]

20 hours ago, lolblizzard said:

thats why pages like raiderio shouldnt have existed in the first place. ruin the game nothing else

And then you wold never be able to complete a mythic+ with pugs. Not even a 2.

[DahkCeles 18]

Blizzard needs to 'nudge' good behaviour by giving players tools to review their own performance.   Not something necessarily visible to others, but something you see yourself after end-game content to see what you are doing wrong and how you could improve.  This will improve on mediocre performance in a non-hostile way, and frankly obviate the need for reliance on poor estimates like ilvl or io score.

 

I would even go step further... every LFR raid segment should have an achievement for "getting one thing right".   Getting that achievement should unlock the next segment of the same LFR tier.   Without the achievement, the interface should instruct you to understand what you did wrong (and even include a focused in-game tutorial to help you practice... imagine Lore Walker Cho blabbing about how once upon a time adventurers defeated a particular boss mechanic).

Example: that eyeball raid a few expacs ago, where you had to run into the eyeball room, dps it, and then run out on time.   You get an achievement (maybe a hidden achievement) to unlock the next tier simply for doing THAT: enter the room, stand in it for at least 3 seconds, and leave before the door shuts (and you die).    If you can do that easy task, it proves you are paying at least cursory attention to mechanics.  If you cannot, then you obviously are not ready to go further.

Why would this matter?  Because unlocking LFR tiers based on doing a mechanic will encourage people to try to do the 'most important' thing of each raid.   It will set cultural expectations that honestly attempting a mechanic is crucial to aspiring into higher tiers, rather than simply getting gear to trivialize the content.

 

Now I realize this thread is about M+ and RIO, but Blizzard could start with improving the culture around LFR.   Then figure out how to work on M+.

[Starym 3,779]

13 hours ago, Grumar said:

I don't see why this is an insane reason, considering IO score has become the new gear score it's more important to raise your io score than anything else. this mentality has been fostered and flourished and is rampant in the PuG'ing community. Acting surprised by this is like acting appalled watching a cow get slaughter while eating a cheeseburger. until you stop using IO we're all part of the problem.

It's insane because there was 7 minutes to go after spending 30+ and there's 4 other players.

[SidonisAntares 288]

On 2/6/2021 at 5:38 PM, Melcahia said:

actually the problem is raider.io, not the website or the addon, but the behavior that comes with his use. The same happend long time ago when GS was a thing, Blizzard need to make this kind of things and find the way to use it in a healthy way.

You can't solve the human condition, you have people making supposed YOLO groups requiring 2k rating these days.

[solitha 84]

18 hours ago, ResoWho said:

well in my opinion still different from an mmo or moba game and as we see people in lol care about it and i dont think you need any reward for that. also i said that blizzard themself wouldnt do it and in my opinion an other site or raider.io would be best for something like that. just make review function on raider.io, all reviews even for twink runs written by your main characters (highest r.io score) so you stand for that with your own name. btw wowprogressed tried to use something to review people from m+ runs but in an anonym way and that side was allrdy killed by raider.io at that time.

LoL has a different culture of players. Happens from game to game even in the same genre. I don't think a sample reading of the forums, or even the threads here, would lead anyone to believe that WoW players wouldn't make a complete mess of a peer rating system.

also i said that blizzard themself wouldnt do it

I'm explaining that Overwatch, a Blizzard game, has that kind of system. Blizzard has shown they will do it if they think it'll help. And that one statistic would be far, far more helpful than a bunch of subjective, one-sided stories, assuming you can even read the stories because there are a godsawful lot of people who can't express themselves effectively in writing.

[ResoWho 68]

1 hour ago, solitha said:

LoL has a different culture of players. Happens from game to game even in the same genre. I don't think a sample reading of the forums, or even the threads here, would lead anyone to believe that WoW players wouldn't make a complete mess of a peer rating system.

also i said that blizzard themself wouldnt do it

I'm explaining that Overwatch, a Blizzard game, has that kind of system. Blizzard has shown they will do it if they think it'll help. And that one statistic would be far, far more helpful than a bunch of subjective, one-sided stories, assuming you can even read the stories because there are a godsawful lot of people who can't express themselves effectively in writing.

you got your opinion and i got mine, thats fine. still as i said before, in my opinion you cant compare a shooter with a mmo. in a shooter like overwatch, valorant or cs go you get automatically matched with random player who got the same rating. the queue time is pretty short and you dont need any backround check for your random team mates and even if you check them what would you do if you find out they lost all their last games and left several early? vote them out without them doing anything to you yet? probably the other players would deny your vote anyways since nothing happened yet.

in wow you dont get matched automatically, you do a backround check and maybe talk to the people who applied and if its a progress key for yourself you probably ask them to join voice. depending on your role, your class and your spec it can take a long time to find a grp or find people for your own key. 

so overall you put way more time and effort into a m+ run then into a ranked match in other games. also if the run ends the people mostly remain in your grp and probably asking for the next run if you had been succesfull. in my opinion people would also ask in those after key grps if the others could +rep them if they liked the run, i dont see a reason why they wouldnt once a review system would be accepted and used. 

also a honor system in overwatch should probably prevent people from leaving the game and beeing toxic, they dont depend on other people to get invited to a grp to join a queue for a ranked match. in wow that system would be used to overthink if you invite someone into your grp or if you take someone else with the same or even a lower m+ score but a better honor score/reviews.

Edited February 8, 2021 by ResoWho

[Ragingwolf 286]

I don't think Blizzard can change or rectify the human conditioning of players and player's expectations of an outside source, like Raider IO, for Mythic+.  Even if they should implement a new system or an outside source a great many players will still twist/manipulate the system for self gain all over again and you are directly back at square one with the same issue and problem.

A solution for the problem at hand now?  There really isn't one tbh except acknowledge the risk that the people you bring into a pug group have the option to leave anytime w/o warning.  So if it's a particular key you really want to see about pushing and progressing I suggest making a static of either Guildies or friends on your Battlenet to help you.

  

[Mrkickstart7 0]

It's total normal that people's behavior is weird in wow its so often people join pug raid and ask for summon and if they get no summon they leave they also leave after joining the group after seconds when they see the Rio of ppl in group isn't good especially the ppl with exp. And if u start for example an dungj and tank does pull 2 grps and the group can't handle they release 10 times and then someone leaves. I could tell many examples that were really frustrating  in the past. It's not an raider.io problem I guess it was more the problem of m+ without voice it would be an game changer if voice would be required 

[Kethcup 8]

Raider.io is ruining this game dude, and this is only one of the reasons.