Sign in to follow this  
Followers 0
miyari

wow Rogue - Warlords of Draenor Alpha Patch Notes Analysis

1 post in this topic

5719-rogue-warlords-of-draenor-alpha-pat

Icy Veins asks the experts' opinions on their favorite class changes!

The Warlords of Draenor Alpha patch notes have been out for a few weeks now and millions of players have already voiced strong opinions of the direction Blizzard is headed with the game in this coming expansion. Some class changes have received overwhelmingly positive feedback, while others have left many a player scratching their head. A few changes have even caused a substantial outcry of rage!


We've invited a handful of our class MVPs to share their opinions on the changes made to their respective top class. For this patch notes analysis topic, we have requested feedback from our resident experts on the projected changes being made to the Rogue class. For our final patch notes analysis topic, Fierydemise has been kind enough to share his thoughts on the upcoming Rogue changes!
 
Fierydemise is the main author of Rogue Chat, a prominent theorycrafting blog for Rogues.

Blizzard Icon Rogue WoD Alpha Changes

+ Show- Hide

Ability Pruning

  • Disarm Trap has been removed.
  • Fan of Knives is no longer available to Combat Rogues.
  • Redirect has been removed.
  • Rupture is no longer available to Combat Rogues.
  • Shadow Blades has been removed.

Crowd Control and Diminishing Returns

  • Dismantle has been removed.
  • Paralytic Poison has been removed and replaced by Internal Bleeding.
    • Internal Bleeding: Causes successful Kidney Shots to also apply a periodic Bleed effect for 12 seconds, with damage increasing per combo point used.

Buffs and Debuffs

  • Expose Armor has been removed.
  • Mind-numbing Poison has been removed.
  • Swiftblade's Cunning now provides a 5% increase to melee, ranged, and spell Haste to all Party and Raid members (instead of a 10% increase to only melee and ranged attack speed).

Raid Utility Balance

  • Smoke Bomb now reduces damage taken by 10% (down from 20%).

Facing Requirements

  • Ambush no longer requires the Rogue to be behind the target.
  • Backstab can now be used on either side of the target, in addition to behind the target.

Class Changes


There are a number of Rogue changes listed under Ability Pruning, but there are a few additional changes to note. The biggest of which is a fundamental change to how Combo Points work. They're now shared across all enemies; you can swap targets and you won;t lose your Combo Points.

First, in our efforts to reduce cooldown stacking across the game, we chose to remove the damage increase from Tricks of the Trade. And second, we decided to loosen the weapon requirements on Assassination. It's important to note that we still intend for daggers to be the optimal choice for Assassination Rogues, but this change will help Rogues who want to try out Assassination but don't have two daggers.
  • Combo Points for Rogues are now shared across all targets. You no longer lose your Combo Points when switching targets.
  • Tricks of the Trade now has no energy cost and no longer increases damage caused by the target by 15%.
  • Assassin’s Resolve no longer requires daggers to function.
  • Dispatch can now be used with fist weapons or one-handed swords, dealing 331% weapon damage (instead of 480%) when used with those weapons instead of a dagger.
  • Mutilate can now be used with fist weapons or one-handed swords, dealing 137% weapon damage (instead of 200%) when used with those weapons instead of a dagger.
  • Sinister Strike now deals 188% weapon damage when used with a dagger (instead of 130%).
Bandit's Guile is an interesting mechanic that is important to Combat gameplay, but wasn't working out quite as well as we think that it could. In particular, there's basically no way to adjust when you're going to be in Deep Insight, other than stopping your rotation (and thus wasting energy, combo points, temporary effects, cooldown time, etc.). So, we're making an adjustment to Revealing Strike and Bandit's Guile. The intention here is that you can use Revealing Strike in place of Sinister Strike when you want to delay Deep Insight (such as to line it up with a specific upcoming fight mechanic), and have little lost damage besides the overall Deep Insight uptime. We don't expect this nuanced rotation adjustment to be used by all Combat Rogues, but having a little more control over the pace of your rotation will be useful to some.
  • Revealing Strike now deals 20% more damage, but no longer advances Bandit's Guile.
Among some other changes to improve Rogue AoE damage, we made a couple of baseline changes, and added a few Draenor Perks that impacts their AoE.
  • Blade Flurry can now trigger poisons.
  • Seal Fate now also grants a combo point for area attacks that critically strike the Rogue's primary target.
Honor Among Thieves is an extremely powerful ability, but has the downside that it adds significant disparity between character power while soloing and while in a group. We made this change to bring up the soloing Subtlety Rogue, without having a significant impact on their performance while in a group.
  • Honor Among Thieves can now also be triggered by critical hits from the Rogue's melee Auto Attacks.
A couple of Rogue abilities do periodic damage, but don't have an intended alternative if that periodic is already on the target. We made these abilities roll remaining damage from their previous effect into the new effect, so that it's still ideal to use them again in these cases.
  • Crimson Tempest's periodic damage now has rolling periodic behavior, meaning that remaining damage from the previous application is added into the newly-applied periodic-damage effect.
  • Hemorrhage's periodic damage now has rolling periodic behavior, meaning that remaining damage from the previous application is added into the newly-applied periodic-damage effect.
Subterfuge has proved too powerful, and frustrating to play against in PvP, so we decided to reduce its defensive capabilities, while preserving its offensive power. We changed the Subterfuge period to allow the use of stealth abilities without actually stealthing you, similar to Shadow Dance.
  • Subterfuge now allows you to use abilities that require stealth for 3 seconds after leaving Stealth, instead of actually staying stealthed for 3 seconds.


1. What is your overall impression of Blizzard's changes to the Rogue class?


Fierydemise: The changes are a very good starting point for iteration. The changes fix a lot of the major complaints about the rogue class this expansion especially shoring up the major spec weaknesses for subtlety and adding additional depth and complexity to assassination and combat. These new mechanics should also help with the spec distinctiveness issues that have plagued the class all expansion. Blizzard also left completely intact the top notch survivability toolkit that makes the rogue class so powerful in raiding today. This is a good general class niche for raiding and I’m glad to see Blizzard preserving it. While there are still a number of potential problematic points these changes give me a lot of confidence in the direction Blizzard is taking the class.

2. Which changes do you think are the best and why?


Fierydemise: For combat the change to revealing strike which will allow the player to control bandit’s guile for the first time since the mechanic was introduced. This should add a lot of depth to playing combat well. The Envenom related perks should help make assassination a less brain-dead spec. While the changes do not increase the somewhat low assassination skill cap they do lower the distressingly high skill floor of the spec which is greatly needed. Unlike the other two specs subtlety had a very well designed rotation but was handicapped by positional requirements and very poor AoE. Both of these issues have been addressed to varying degrees, the removal of positional requirements from ambush and loosening for Backstab and fan of knives perk should make subtlety a much more powerful general purpose raiding spec.

On a general class level the removal of the tricks of the trade damage buff removes a generally boring mechanic although I think the whole ability could be removed at this point. Combo points on the rogue is a change that has been a long time coming. I don’t think it will be a hugely consequential change given the current glyph of redirect but it’s a good modernizing and quality of life change for the class.

3. Which changes do you think are the worst and why?


Fierydemise: The GCD reduction perk for combat is very worrying, the 0.5 second GCD was a mess during T15 for combat and I really don’t want to see that coming back. WoW really isn’t designed for a GCD that low. It may be that players are never intended to saturate the 0.5 second GCD like we did in T15 however the very fact that we have this substantially reduced GCD during AR worries me on several levels.

The rogue level 100 talents are another major concern. Venom Zest seems like a solid, if somewhat boring talent but the other two talents have some big potential issues. Death from Above really doesn’t seem to fit well into a rogue rotation, it makes very little sense for assassination given the envenom centric nature of the rotation and hitting a finisher on a relatively short cooldown seems very awkward given the current design combo points. Shadow Reflection may be an interesting talent depending on the exact mechanics of the talent but the general idea of a "burst" talent that doesn’t provide any benefit for 8 seconds and full benefit for a full 16 seconds seems off.

4. How would you alter any of the existing changes?


Fierydemise: Fully remove the positional requirement from Backstab. I don’t understand Blizzard’s insistence on keeping Backstab with a limited positional requirement. The full removal of positional requirements from ferals also makes this change baffling. It’s possible that this will make more sense after we have some exact numbers or tuning targets but currently this seems like an unnecessary limitation.

While I like the having revealing strike used to control bandit's guile I think its other effects should simply be baselined and bandit's guile should become a durationless aura so combat rogues aren’t undulling hurt during long down time phases. Since bandit's guile is moving to a new central pseudo-resource system for combat it should be treated as such mechanically. Relatedly I’d like to see bandit’s guile have better UI support. Needing an addon to track the progress toward the next BG stage is problematic with the new increased importance of the mechanic.

5. What changes would you like to see in WoD?


Fierydemise: Revisit all rogue talent tiers. While Blizzard has done an admirable job during MoP making the current talent tiers more interesting than they were at launch each tier has at least one effectively dead talent for both PvE and PvP and T30 and T75 offer basically nothing interesting for PvE rogues. T90 has its own slightly different problem, anticipation provides a powerful quality of life in addition to a DPS increase making it very hard to beat even if a talent provides comparable or better DPS increase.

Vendetta remains one of the most boring cooldowns in the game with absolutely no rotational interaction. The proposed perk to give it the already boring (and very weak) Cold Blood effect doesn’t really solve the problem. With the removal of shadow blades assassination really needs vendetta to be more interesting as assassination’s only cooldown.

Patch Notes Last Updated - 23 April 2014

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  
Followers 0

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

  • Similar Content

    • By Stan

      May is ahead of us and Blizzard published a list of events that await us in Azeroth in the upcoming month. 
      Don't forget to check out our "This Week in WoW" series (published every Tueday), where we preview all events in more detail on a weekly basis!
      Blizzard (Source)
      Time flies when you’re fighting the Burning Legion! May is already looming over us, much like the Sentinax looms over the Broken Shore. Despite the long shadow cast by this Legion ship, Azeroth’s champions fight on—and there are still bright moments ahead. Keep an eye on your in-game calendar for exact start and end times of the many events this month so you don’t miss a thing!
      In Game Events
      Children's Week (May 1 - 8)

      Show an orphan what the hero’s life is like! Visit Orphan Matron Nightingale in Orgrimmar, Orphan Matron Mercy in Shattrath, or Orphan Matron Aria in Dalaran and make a child’s dream come true.
      Battleground Bonus Event (May 2 - 8)
      While this event is active, random Battlegrounds will award Honor at an increased rate. Glory awaits in the fields of battle!
      PvP Brawl: Warsong Scramble (May 2 - 8)
      Do you have a flag? Warsong Gulch has always been the scene of an epic capture-the-flag battle, but what happens when you can capture your enemy’s flag without having your own at your base? Find out when you step into this PvP Brawl! We’ve also added a few more power-ups to the field of battle to stir things up a bit. To win, your team will need to be the first to capture five flags.
      Darkmoon Faire (May 7 - 13)
      Meet Silas Darkmoon and his troupe, play games that test mind and nerve, and behold exotic sights from the four corners of Azeroth and beyond!
      Legion Dungeon Event (May 9 - 15)
      While this event is active, the final boss of each Legion dungeon awards an extra item when defeated.
      Spring Balloon Festival (May 10 - 12)
      The skies are clear; the wind is calm—it’s a great day for hot air ballooning. Hop into a hot air balloon, enjoy the scenery, and make some new friends!

      Pet Battle Bonus Event (May 16 - 22)
      While this event is active, your pets will earn experience at triple the usual rate! Get out there and battle!
      PvP Brawl: Deepwind Dunk (May 16-22)
      Can you even dunk? If you want to win this Brawl, you’re going to need to work on your skills because Dunkball has come to Pandaria. You’ll race to claim balls from the map’s center, or northern, or southern mines, take them to your enemy’s base, and then go for a magnificent long range shot or go all in for the dunk.
      Cataclysm Timewalking Dungeon Event (May 23 - 29)
      While this event is active, players level 86 or higher may access a special Timewalking Dungeon Finder queue, which scales players and their items down to revisit past dungeons from the Cataclysm expansion. While Timewalking bosses will yield loot appropriate for a player’s regular level.
      Glowcap Festival (May 27)
      Today, the sporelings of Sporeggar in Zangarmarsh hold their annual mushroom festival. Help them keep the great Fshoo alive as long as possible!
      Arena Skirmish Event (May 30 - June 5)
      While this event is active, Arena Skirmishes will award Honor at an increased rate. Will you answer the call to battle?
    • By Alwaysmiddle
      Thanks for the ride guys, I hope everyone luck in the future. Our guild will be finished here, it's been fun.
    • By Stan

      Tuning for Beast Mastery Hunters continues and Blizzard reverted changes made to Wild Call triggering. Dire Beast and Dire Frenzy will have two charges baseline The Mantle of Command (Legendary shoulders) will be changed to increase the proc chance of Wild Call.
      Changes above should result in more Focus and a more fluid rotation for Beast Mastery Hunters.
      Blizzard (Source)
      Hi Beast Masters. We’ve been reading your feedback and trying different sets of changes for Beast Mastery Hunters internally and on PTR.

      To start, we are reverting all 7.2.5 changes we’ve made so far to how Wild Call triggers. Instead, Dire Beast and Dire Frenzy will have 2 charges baseline. The Mantle of Command (legendary shoulders that currently add +1 charge to Dire Beast/Dire Frenzy) will be changed to instead further increase the proc chance of Wild Call. 

      Overall, this will result in more Focus for all Beast Mastery Hunters, resulting in a more active rotation. Additionally, this gives all Beast Mastery Hunters access to a Dire Beast/Dire Frenzy with 2 charges playstyle that is more engaging and fun, allowing you to make decisions on when to use the buttons, instead of feeling like you should most often simply push them on cooldown.

      We’ve been trying other iterations of changes surrounding Dire Beast/Dire Frenzy and Wild Call, including increasing Dire Beast/Dire Frenzy Focus generation or versions that avoided changing the legendary shoulders drastically, but ultimately reached the conclusion that giving 2 charges to the abilities baseline, which many of you have asked for, was the best change for the spec at the current time. We appreciate your patience while we try different iterations on PTR.

      We are also making a few other less major changes to the spec in the next PTR patch, including: Aspect of the Wild will reduce the global cooldowns of your damaging abilities by 0.2 seconds, allowing you to more reliably spend the Focus you’re generating while it's active, especially with Dire Beast/Dire Frenzy going off. Kill Command and Dire Frenzy will cause your pet/Hati to charge up to 40 yds (up from 25 yds) to the target, matching the max range of your ranged abilities. When your pet casts Dash, Hati will also gain Dash for the same duration.
    • By Stan

      Volunteer Guard Day micro-holiday is here and Blizzard continues to discuss 7.2.5 Brewmaster Monk / Discipline Priest class changes.
      Volunteer Guard Day
      /Salute a guard to receive the Volunteer City Guard buff. You will be periodically attacked by City Invaders. The buff persists through death. More details are included in our preview here.
      Patch 7.2.5 Class Discussion
      Class discussions are ongoing for Brewmaster Monks & Discipline Priest. If you've missed the previous round you can find it here.
      Brewmaster Monk
      Blizzard (Source)
      Lots of great feedback here on the latest build so far. Thanks.

      Latest thoughts:
      Spitfire - It's a fun playstyle option for people, but having both defensive (even without it being an increase to Hot Blooded, it's still more Elusive Brawler stacks) and offensive value (more Breath of Fires for damage), it's hard to fit it anywhere in the talent tree, and it complicates artifact trait values. We're going to just cut if for now (may return at some point in the future when it fits in better). Niuzao will return, and will simply deal more damage to make him competitive with the row.

      Blackout Combo - Yeah, the 2sec rotation is problematic. Some people like the frantic gameplay, but we think other talent combinations deliver on that better anyway. The main problems with it are that it invalidates a ton of other talent choices, actually *reduces* rotational choice because you just combo everything instead of having to choose what you combo, causes energy capping issues, is a massive buff to the talent potentially upsetting talent balance, and is too fast-paced without any other contribution. We're going to return it to 3sec, where you can pair it with other GCD-filling talents to create the frantic playstyle if you prefer, without causing the above issues.

      Hot Blooded and Dragonfire Brew - Baseline, Hot Blooded is very strong. 1% DR per bronze trait is already on the extremely strong side. The Legendary chest was created with Hot Blooded in mind as its defensive benefit. But that gets a little out of hand when we added 4th points to Bronzes, and you min/max relics, increasing it to the massively-OP level of 7% DR for a legendary. Then the 7.2.5 changes also add more Elusive Brawler stacks to that. We're going to adjust these two traits in order to better balance trait and legendary values: Dragonfire Brew will also increase the duration of Breath of Fire's DoT by 100%, giving it defensive value. Hot Blooded will now be active the whole time, instead of ~half the time without the Chest, and so is changing to 1% DR per point to compensate.

      EDIT: Overall Tuning - As always, overall tuning happens late in the process. Don't worry about overall power level of Brewmasters when giving feedback on these changes.

      Thanks all!
      I have a feeling there's a disconnect between how much the monk community value those elusive brawler stack and how the Developers value them.

      First off, as said many times, dodge doesn't do anything VS magic damage or VS any kind of boss threatening ability as they are undodgeable even if physical (ex: spellblade annihilate).

      From a mythic raider point of view, those dodge stacks hardly do anything, as bosses auto-attack (the only thing that's dodgeable) are the least threatening form of damage we have to face.

      From a M+ dungeon point of view, those stack comes and go so fast nobody will notice the buff... having 100% dodge chance for 1 auto-attack out of the 5+ weak mob training you hardly change anything... 

      It's also one of the reason people hardly, if ever, use blackout combo to empower purify.
      We value it based upon its actual real world value, not a theoretical worst case that doesn't actually exist. You should too.

      Yes, Elusive Brawler does nothing against Magic/undodgeable damage. However, apart from some extremely niche situations like Star Auger, it's not that piercing damage alone that kills you; it's the combination of those and other damage that is dodgeable. Nowhere is this more true than on Brewmasters, where there is no spike damage, only smoothed total damage (which is mostly auto attack damage). Mastery drastically reduces the total damage you take, which is the only thing scary to a Brewmaster anyway.
      Discipline Priest
      Blizzard (Source)
      Thanks for all the feedback. As I mentioned last week, there was a lot of rapid iteration going on so it was hard to give any detailed updates. This build is a more complete set of changes that seems to be going in a good direction, though there are still some issues to work out.

      --Talent balancing. In particular, Evangelism is an idea we like, but finding serious competition for it as a raid talent might be hard. It probably needs to be against heavier hitters like Power Infusion (especially if that helps it be less of a one-note cooldown stacking build). There will likely be further iteration on talent arrangement to better accommodate the new additions.

      --Mana. The spell whose cost is most important for balance purposes is Plea, because it is now the most efficient way to convert excess mana into Atonements. We reduced the cost so it would make more sense when compared against Shadow Mend and Radiance, but have to keep an eye on whether that leaves mana as a reasonable limiter on how much Atonement you can spread over the course of an encounter.

      --Overall Atonement count. The changes in the last build helped fix a lot of mechanical issues, but also added a lot of raw power to the spec, particularly in terms of Atonement spread/uptime. And particularly Evangelism returns a lot of the burst-Atonement coverage that currently dominates Disc raiding. That's not necessarily a problem if everything else about the spec is working well, and it's good to continue having a bit of a niche that Disc is used to in Legion. But as discussed in my first post, if it's as easy to blanket the raid as it is on live, that limits the spec somewhat. 

      While this is something we'll monitor throughout PTR, especially with more internal and external raid testing, there is definitely a worry that in order to balance the spec at this point, the Atonement transfer % would have to go down, which is the opposite of the stated goal. We don't want to be in that position at the end of PTR when it's harder to make other changes.
    • By Stan

      Roundup of today's Live Q/A with Game Director Ion "Watcher" Hazzikostas. Tomb will open somewhere between mid to late June. Exalted reputation requirement for Class Mounts was removed. Legendary items will be upgradable through essences, similar to 7.1.5.
      Legion Class Q/A was considered multiple times, but talking about a single spec wouldn't be too compelling to viewers playing a different class.
      Broken Shore
      The team didn't want players to feel overwhelmed with all the content on Day 1, which is why they went for gating Class Mounts
      The Exalted reputation requirement (Armies of Legionfall) was removed and once you finish the Legionfall campaign (Breaching the Tomb), you can start working on getting your Class Mount CRZ Issues
      They're acutely aware of it and don't like server hopping, it's definitely on their radar In Legion they introduced server sharding which made Legion launch smooth Some addons encourage behaviors that do not complement this tech (World Quest Group Finder) Demon Assaults
      Won't reward Armies of Legionfall reputation  They would have to sprinkle all rewards everywhere It's okay to have activities up that offer distinct rewards (AotL reputation / Nethershards) that do not interest you Don't need Nethershards? Don't do the Sentinax Legion Assaults are great source of Nethershards. If it's up in a zone you've got your emissary up, it's super time efficient Excessive Order Resources
      Spending 7,000 per week for getting 3 Seals of Broken Fate is a significant drain They may offer a sink in the future, but nothing is planned for now It's good to have excessive resources so that players don't feel forced to do World Quests Heirlooms
      Coming in the next 7.2.5 build Legendary Items
      New Legendary items will be introduced in 7.2.5 If you have all Legendaries for your spec, you will don't need to micromanage loot spec, off-spec Legendaries will drop automatically E.g. Brewmaster Monk who has all Legendaries for his spec will see WW / MW Legendaries drop Blizzard is happy with the current Legendary acquisition rate There will be a quest that offers a new Distilled Titan Essence to upgrade 940 Legendary items to 970 Mythic+ 
      Week 1 Tomb: Nothing Changes Mythic Tomb Opens: Mythic Cap goes up to 15, where weekly cache is comparable to Mythic Tomb and Mythic+ loot to Heroic Tomb loot According to completion rates / completion times / 2-chesting / 3-chesting, things are in a good space right now, no plans for nerfs Overall, affixes are good, learning curves (Fel Explosives), Grievious runs, people put on Prydaz etc.It's good to evolve different strategies for different affixes Nighthold Mythic
      Progression is fluid, Elisande & Gul'dan are subject to nerfs Patch 7.3
      We'll go to Argus and there's a new raid, more information not available so far There will be no Class-specific quests in 7.3. Armies of Legionfall represents all the classes united Reputation Paragon
      Paragon emissaries have underwhelming rewards compared to normal caches. This will be discussed in the future Timewalking
      Black Temple is tied to Burning Crusade Timewalking. Blizzard wants to come to a point where every Timewalking week will have a Timewalking raid associated with it Tomb of Sargeras
      Will open mid to late June More testing will be done on PTR (LFR Wing 1 opens this weekend) Items will have a +30 item level ceiling Gear will Titanforge to 955 Misc Questions
      Why are external buffs like Innervate and Greater Blessing of Wisdom still a thing? Did we learn nothing from Symbiosis?
      It doesn't feel good to need an external buff to feel viable. Disc Priests in 7.2.5 received changes to be less dependent on Innervation. Such spells help class identity It's better to fill a blank: bring the player, not the class. When you're looking for players, it's better to realize that you need a class that brings a buff rather than the highest item level player in the queue. You needed 5 Holy Priests for Felmyst. You could not be viable as a melee DPS if you didn't have a Warrior to give you Battle Shout, but that was nearly 10 years ago Will the Horde get an update on what's happening on their side? Sylvanas / Blightcaller / Volj'in?
      Vol'jin's dead. It's good not having to force this by a symmetry. They'll add a Horde part of the story when they feel it's right. At the start of the Broken Shore experience, Horde did have an additional cinematic.
      Will we ever be able to use Weapon Illusions on our Artifact?
      No. It was a really early decision by the Art team when they started working on Artifact weapons
      Will we be able to redo Mage Tower Challenges?
      Wasn't designed to be a repeatable thing, but this will be done in the future