Jump to content
FORUMS
Sign in to follow this  
Vomitory

Worth Breaking 4P for Heoric Upgrade?

Recommended Posts

My armory, for reference.

 

As of now, I'm wearing my four piece Tier set for the bonus as Destruction, which we all know is pretty good. However, I am thinking about swapping inv_helm_cloth_raidwarlock_n_01.jpgHood of the Horned Nightmare with inv_helm_cloth_raidmage_n_01.jpgHood of Swirling Senses and I'm wondering if it's worth losing the bonus. I think about the lack of the 15% crit for 5 seconds, and while it's a nice little boost to damage, it's a minimal period of time and it's only 15% (I'd have passed on the helm if it was 30%+ for 5 seconds). I also don't have the gold to just re-meta and gem it up to test it to see if it's a minimal difference. But I'm thinking the intellect and static crit is worth it in the end, even if only a little bit. Hoping someone with some theorycrafting experience might be able to give some input before I spend the VP/gold on my legendary meta.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Without putting it thru Sim and telling Sim to use procs properly, its probably worth it to drop the 4pc and do some testing.  The 5 sec proc is particularly useful for casting immolate in and CB if you have another small proc or you will cap before your next assumed proc. That being said, the base crit on the helm will allow you to try and max out immolate for damage and ticks over crit chance to generate embers and CB average should go up since that helm has much more of each stat your are looking for.  Also, you should gem the head out regardless and replace your shoulders and legs with tier if you have it assuming you want the 4pc back.  Head, chest, and legs have the highest stat budget meaning much more SP and much better to have heroic versions of (another good reason to drop the 4pc with those wf legs).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I gemmed the pants/helm and swapped it out, assuming the extra stats like you mentioned would be beneficial even when the 5 second proc's ICD is on its cooldown. I don't think I ever did have my tier shoulders from normal Blackfuse sadly lol I had an offset piece and straight to heroic, so we'll see how it goes. Appreciate the input though. I'm not entirely sure how to Sim let alone customize it to tell it when to proc, but as long as it's not a drastic drop in overall DPS, I'm not complaining about 570 ilvl. Thanks again for the input.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

No problem.  It will come down to testing to see if the increase in stats is better.  Like I said, my thought is that since its a helm with ideal stat wait to replace the proc, overall DPS will increase as other procs have potential to be more potent overall.  Just don't miss your other procs and good luck!

 

P.S. - Clear for tier, worth it

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So far it's definitely worth the change. If I ever see H Thok/Siegecrafter/Paragons, of course I'll take the tier but I haven't seen any heroic tier beyond Nazgrim. Lazy guild is lazy.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well, I disagree that this change should be worth it.

 

The 4 set is better than you think it is. You can maintain immolate with 100% uptime on it, and with proper play you will be able to always have at least a 15% damage modifier on every chaos bolt.

 

The extra stats shouldn't trump the 4 set. You're only going from Normal to Heroic. If it was flex tier for 2x heroic off pieces then yeah it would be better to drop it.

 

I simmed you in your current gear vs what you had with 4 set, and 4 set came out ahead by 10K DPS.

 

Furthermore, you're going to get 4 set eventually. Why not learn how to use it now rather than later?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You should never drop your 4pc unless you're going from about LFR tier to RWF or H off items. Going from reg to heroic is way to small a gain in stats to drop your 4pc for.

 

 

Just look at the stats:

 

Heroic Swirling + RWF Shipley's = 4448int, 1445 crit, 3515mastery, 1314 haste and 320 hit.

 

Reg tier = 4140int, 1388crit, 2936 mastery, 1443 haste.

 

Going from tier to off set gives you 308 int, 57 crit, 579 mastery, 320 hit, with -129 haste.

 

 

4pc has about a 30% uptime, Immolate should have the extra 15% 100% of the time, CB will be snapped with it more times then not, and used well will buff your ember gen by a solid amount. 

 

The buff does scale with player skill like all snap shotting, the better you are the more valuable it is. If you find snap shotting to be an issue you have problems with now then you should be focusing on bettering your game play then +/- a few 100 stats.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

"Only 15%..."

 

15% is not a small deal when you're talking about landing a Chaos Bolt.  If you use your 4pc on every Chaos Bolt and you average 1,000,000 baseline, you'll be doing 1,150,000 with each time.  7 proper Chaos Bolts will bang you out an additional 1M damage without trinket procs.  Your boost in stats won't give you that baseline.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well if these guys Sim'd it, I trust them, they put a lot more numbers into their input.  My perspective was that you weren't having fun trying to capture the proc being 5 seconds either due to latency or just lack of proper use with Immolate as priority, then CB.  Also, do not wait til HThok to pick up the 4pc again if not using it is working out better for you. Make the switch back even with Nazzy hands and go back to practicing because the 4pc is extremely strong if used properly.

Edited by Gnar

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Even if you aren't actively utilising 4pc to renew immolate and cast chaos bolts, it's still probably not worth dropping 4pc. But you should be actively utilising it because it's amazing.

Edited by Oldtrout

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Don't discount the overall extra embers you generate from immolate rolling with Crit% buffs up. Every crit of immolate gives you 0.2 embers. Over the course of the fight, you are going to be able to cast a few more CB's.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Don't discount the overall extra embers you generate from immolate rolling with Crit% buffs up. Every crit of immolate gives you 0.2 embers. Over the course of the fight, you are going to be able to cast a few more CB's.

Although what you said is rotationally correct, unlike other ember generators, Immolate generates .1 ember if and only if it crits. Just posting this to avoid confusion.

Edited by Gnar

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Although what you said is rotationally correct, unlike other ember generators, Immolate generates .1 ember if and only if it crits. Just posting this out to avoid confusion.

Ahh, yes was thinking of incinerate for some reason. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
Sign in to follow this  

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

  • Similar Content

    • By Skaboy
      <Fun is for Casuals> is a serious but casual horde guild on US-Hyjal. We are serious about raiding without the intense hours. Even when recruitment status is none, we will accept exceptional applications for all classes. For a full list of what we're looking for check out https://funisforcasuals.enjin.com . 
      Our raid times are Tuesday and Thursday from 5:00PM to 8:00PM server (PST) with raid invitations sent out a few minutes prior to that.

      We're interested in you if you fit the following criteria:
      Raid attendance is essential. We don't want people sitting on the bench but we also want to make sure we're raiding 6 hours per week. We expect you to be available for at least 90% of our raids. Be on time and prepared for raids. This includes flasks and other consumables. Discord is mandatory and a working mic is desired. You're appropriately geared for our current content. Effort and thought have been put into your gear/gem/enchant choices. You wouldn't show up for a job interview looking like a scrub, why would you apply to a guild with improper gems or some insane spec? You're up to date with your class. We expect our raiders to perform to the best of their abilities. You have a computer that's not run with hamster power or requires a hand crank. Some encounters are taxing on a computer's resources so if your toon can't even handle Orgrimmar it's not likely to do well with 20+ whelps that need AOE'ing.
      You may be interested in us because:
      <Fun is for Casuals> uses the personal loot system. There is no loot council, or DKP. We won't eat your babies the first time you stand in something you have no business being in. Repeatedly do it and we'll break out the bibs and BBQ sauce. We provide a limited amount of consumables and flasks on hard mode raid nights. Discord isn't a circus during raids. We're focused on the job at hand and you should be too. We don't want someone to miss a an interrupt because they were distracted by fart jokes. We are not interested in you if you fit the following criteria:
      You roll on BoE items then sell them. Unwilling/unable to spend an entire evening on one boss during progression. While this is rare, it can happen. Drama queens. If you have a problem bring it up to E. This is his job. Don't announce it in guild chat or during a raid. Your issue will have nothing to do with 99% of the guild. You are 17 or younger. We try to keep guild and discord chat PG-13 but occasionally a few four letter words appear out of nowhere. Additionally, we don't want someone's mom interrupting their raiding to get homework or the dishes done. Follow the instructions at https://funisforcasuals.enjin.com/ under the Recruitment tab if you would like to apply.
      If you have any question, feel free to contact E. at DbD#1309
    • By TSLNight
      Who we are:
      The Shadow Legion is an early evening raiding guild. Our goal is to try and clear the current content (Cutting Edge) as fast as we can and maintain a friendly and positive atmosphere.
      We are a group of friends who enjoy playing together no matter what the content is. Our guys come from a hardcore raiding background dating all the way to TBC days. We know we can push the hardest content if we set our minds to it.
      After a long hiatus from mythic raiding we are rebuilding our mythic roster to effectively start clearing mythic BoD and in the near future, Crucible. We currently have a very solid core group of 10-12 players who have been together for a few years now. We are looking to fill our ranks with other like minded players with a background in mythic raiding and the attitude of improving themselves and the group as a whole.
      Raiding times:
      Wednesday: 18:00 - 20:30
      Sunday: 18:00 - 20:30
      Monday 18:00 - 20:30
      All times are Server time.
      Times may be extended or an extra raid added during early progression if the group is willing to push harder.
      What we expect from our raiders:
      Attendance: We have a very chill raiding schedule totaling 6 hours a week. That is why we expect our raiders to have as close to a 100% attendance ratio as possible. We understand emergencies but if you cannot maintain close to perfect attendance then it will quickly become an issue due to time constraints.
      Proficiency: We expect our raiders to be proficient with their classes and are always trying to improve. Whether it be by working on gear or going through your logs to find ways to improve, we will try our best to help where we can.
      Communication: Headsets and a working mic are a must. You do not to be talking all the time but being able to provide information quickly during a pull is a huge benefit.
      Dedication: You need to have a positive attitude towards raiding and progressing. Understand that sometimes it takes time and effort to get some bosses down. We need players who are dedicated to achieve our common goal and maintain that competitive spark to push further where we can.
      Feel free to apply on: https://sl.enjin.com/recruitment as we do consider all applicants at all times.
      Night - Night#23645 (Guild Master)
      Blaster - Blaster#21232 (Recruitment Officer)
    • By Rainelas
      Project X (Heroic) is a one night a week Heroic team located on Sargeras, US and we are an Alliance raiding guild. We are a laid back group of friends that like to have a good time while also downing bosses each week.
      We are Currently looking for.
      * Death Knight (DPS)
      * Hunter Marksmanship, Beast Master
      * Mage any spec
      * Demon Hunter DPS
      * Warrior DPS
      * Paladin DPS
      * Priest any spec
      * Druid Feral, Balance
      * Rogue any spec
      * Shaman any spec
      * Warlock any spec
      Must be 385 to Apply.
      Raid times: Sunday - 7:30 - 10:30 CST
      Apply here: <https://bit.ly/2J2zd5N>
      CONTACT INFO!
      Bnet: viz#11820 | Discord: dead#0666
      Bnet: MAVIENAR#1710 | Discord: MAVIENAR#1710
      Bnet: Reaper#1145 | Discord: Devildog#1524
       
    • By Nightbreed
      Hey all! <-Insert Token to Continue -> (A - Stormrage) is currently looking to expand our raid roster! We are 5/9 H with good progression on Rasta so far and our goal for each raid tier is AOTC with good progression into Mythic. Most of us have been playing WoW together for 8+ years, so expect a friendly atmosphere and a lot of banter. Our raid days/times are Saturday/Sunday from 930pm-1230am EST. If you like a laid back raiding experience but still want to see content cleared then look no further!
      ---------- CURRENTLY RECRUITING ----------
      – Tanks WITH DPS OS–
      None Currently – Healers WITH DPS OS–
      Resto Shaman – Melee DPS –
      Assassination Rogue WW Monk (With Tank OS) – Ranged DPS –
      Frost Mage Boomkin (With Resto OS) Affliction Lock BM Hunter For any applicant please provide clear logs along with any experience you have so far.
      We are ALWAYS recruiting good players, so if you don’t see your main spec here that doesn’t mean you can’t apply. These will just be high priorities for our comp.
      Please add me or any officer with any questions or if you are interested in applying.
      Recruitment Officer: Nightbreed#1694
      Guild Master: Bruce#12339
    • By Araxy
      Name: The Mighty Nein
      Realm: Wyrmrest Accord
      Faction: Horde
      Times/Days Raiding: Tuesday/Friday 5pm-8pm PDT (Sometimes Sunday for alt runs)
      A Little Bit About Us: With over 400 members and heroic and mythic experience, we aim to have heroic raiding content on farm, with some Mythic raiding as well. We run M+ often and push higher keys as well. We're also aiming to get out feet into RP and RP like events so maybe you're an RPer wanting to try and get into raiding! Maybe you're a raider that wants to RP occasionally on the side! We can offer both, as well as casual PVP!
      What You Can Expect From Us: We have a strong team and aim to continuously strengthen our community. We offer a place to be yourself, while not being judged. We offer people who can help you with RP, be it creating a character or a story, or even on the PVE side of things, officers/members that can assist you with learning more about your class, and last but CERTAINLY not least, we offer a focused and progressive mindset when it comes to Mythic + and Raiding content.
      What We Expect From You: First and foremost, everyone is human, mistakes happen and we know that everyone has different variables affecting their lives. Compassion, effort and patience is all we ask. Mic on comms control is important as well as patience. We ask that you're sure that this is the type of raiding you seek before you message us, we'd hate for there to be a misconstruing of what we both seek!
      What's Next?! Contact Zennargle#1921 for more information or whisper anyone and they can direct you to a GM or Officer for more info if you desire! Or even respond to this forum post and we'll get back to ya as soon as we can! Hope to see some new faces!
×
×
  • Create New...