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Vomitory

Worth Breaking 4P for Heoric Upgrade?

14 posts in this topic

My armory, for reference.

 

As of now, I'm wearing my four piece Tier set for the bonus as Destruction, which we all know is pretty good. However, I am thinking about swapping inv_helm_cloth_raidwarlock_n_01.jpgHood of the Horned Nightmare with inv_helm_cloth_raidmage_n_01.jpgHood of Swirling Senses and I'm wondering if it's worth losing the bonus. I think about the lack of the 15% crit for 5 seconds, and while it's a nice little boost to damage, it's a minimal period of time and it's only 15% (I'd have passed on the helm if it was 30%+ for 5 seconds). I also don't have the gold to just re-meta and gem it up to test it to see if it's a minimal difference. But I'm thinking the intellect and static crit is worth it in the end, even if only a little bit. Hoping someone with some theorycrafting experience might be able to give some input before I spend the VP/gold on my legendary meta.

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Without putting it thru Sim and telling Sim to use procs properly, its probably worth it to drop the 4pc and do some testing.  The 5 sec proc is particularly useful for casting immolate in and CB if you have another small proc or you will cap before your next assumed proc. That being said, the base crit on the helm will allow you to try and max out immolate for damage and ticks over crit chance to generate embers and CB average should go up since that helm has much more of each stat your are looking for.  Also, you should gem the head out regardless and replace your shoulders and legs with tier if you have it assuming you want the 4pc back.  Head, chest, and legs have the highest stat budget meaning much more SP and much better to have heroic versions of (another good reason to drop the 4pc with those wf legs).

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I gemmed the pants/helm and swapped it out, assuming the extra stats like you mentioned would be beneficial even when the 5 second proc's ICD is on its cooldown. I don't think I ever did have my tier shoulders from normal Blackfuse sadly lol I had an offset piece and straight to heroic, so we'll see how it goes. Appreciate the input though. I'm not entirely sure how to Sim let alone customize it to tell it when to proc, but as long as it's not a drastic drop in overall DPS, I'm not complaining about 570 ilvl. Thanks again for the input.

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No problem.  It will come down to testing to see if the increase in stats is better.  Like I said, my thought is that since its a helm with ideal stat wait to replace the proc, overall DPS will increase as other procs have potential to be more potent overall.  Just don't miss your other procs and good luck!

 

P.S. - Clear for tier, worth it

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So far it's definitely worth the change. If I ever see H Thok/Siegecrafter/Paragons, of course I'll take the tier but I haven't seen any heroic tier beyond Nazgrim. Lazy guild is lazy.

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Well, I disagree that this change should be worth it.

 

The 4 set is better than you think it is. You can maintain immolate with 100% uptime on it, and with proper play you will be able to always have at least a 15% damage modifier on every chaos bolt.

 

The extra stats shouldn't trump the 4 set. You're only going from Normal to Heroic. If it was flex tier for 2x heroic off pieces then yeah it would be better to drop it.

 

I simmed you in your current gear vs what you had with 4 set, and 4 set came out ahead by 10K DPS.

 

Furthermore, you're going to get 4 set eventually. Why not learn how to use it now rather than later?

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You should never drop your 4pc unless you're going from about LFR tier to RWF or H off items. Going from reg to heroic is way to small a gain in stats to drop your 4pc for.

 

 

Just look at the stats:

 

Heroic Swirling + RWF Shipley's = 4448int, 1445 crit, 3515mastery, 1314 haste and 320 hit.

 

Reg tier = 4140int, 1388crit, 2936 mastery, 1443 haste.

 

Going from tier to off set gives you 308 int, 57 crit, 579 mastery, 320 hit, with -129 haste.

 

 

4pc has about a 30% uptime, Immolate should have the extra 15% 100% of the time, CB will be snapped with it more times then not, and used well will buff your ember gen by a solid amount. 

 

The buff does scale with player skill like all snap shotting, the better you are the more valuable it is. If you find snap shotting to be an issue you have problems with now then you should be focusing on bettering your game play then +/- a few 100 stats.

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"Only 15%..."

 

15% is not a small deal when you're talking about landing a Chaos Bolt.  If you use your 4pc on every Chaos Bolt and you average 1,000,000 baseline, you'll be doing 1,150,000 with each time.  7 proper Chaos Bolts will bang you out an additional 1M damage without trinket procs.  Your boost in stats won't give you that baseline.

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Well if these guys Sim'd it, I trust them, they put a lot more numbers into their input.  My perspective was that you weren't having fun trying to capture the proc being 5 seconds either due to latency or just lack of proper use with Immolate as priority, then CB.  Also, do not wait til HThok to pick up the 4pc again if not using it is working out better for you. Make the switch back even with Nazzy hands and go back to practicing because the 4pc is extremely strong if used properly.

Edited by Gnar

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Even if you aren't actively utilising 4pc to renew immolate and cast chaos bolts, it's still probably not worth dropping 4pc. But you should be actively utilising it because it's amazing.

Edited by Oldtrout

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Don't discount the overall extra embers you generate from immolate rolling with Crit% buffs up. Every crit of immolate gives you 0.2 embers. Over the course of the fight, you are going to be able to cast a few more CB's.

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Don't discount the overall extra embers you generate from immolate rolling with Crit% buffs up. Every crit of immolate gives you 0.2 embers. Over the course of the fight, you are going to be able to cast a few more CB's.

Although what you said is rotationally correct, unlike other ember generators, Immolate generates .1 ember if and only if it crits. Just posting this to avoid confusion.

Edited by Gnar

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Although what you said is rotationally correct, unlike other ember generators, Immolate generates .1 ember if and only if it crits. Just posting this out to avoid confusion.

Ahh, yes was thinking of incinerate for some reason. 

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