Vomitory

Worth Breaking 4P for Heoric Upgrade?

Sign in to follow this  

14 posts in this topic

My armory, for reference.

 

As of now, I'm wearing my four piece Tier set for the bonus as Destruction, which we all know is pretty good. However, I am thinking about swapping inv_helm_cloth_raidwarlock_n_01.jpgHood of the Horned Nightmare with inv_helm_cloth_raidmage_n_01.jpgHood of Swirling Senses and I'm wondering if it's worth losing the bonus. I think about the lack of the 15% crit for 5 seconds, and while it's a nice little boost to damage, it's a minimal period of time and it's only 15% (I'd have passed on the helm if it was 30%+ for 5 seconds). I also don't have the gold to just re-meta and gem it up to test it to see if it's a minimal difference. But I'm thinking the intellect and static crit is worth it in the end, even if only a little bit. Hoping someone with some theorycrafting experience might be able to give some input before I spend the VP/gold on my legendary meta.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Without putting it thru Sim and telling Sim to use procs properly, its probably worth it to drop the 4pc and do some testing.  The 5 sec proc is particularly useful for casting immolate in and CB if you have another small proc or you will cap before your next assumed proc. That being said, the base crit on the helm will allow you to try and max out immolate for damage and ticks over crit chance to generate embers and CB average should go up since that helm has much more of each stat your are looking for.  Also, you should gem the head out regardless and replace your shoulders and legs with tier if you have it assuming you want the 4pc back.  Head, chest, and legs have the highest stat budget meaning much more SP and much better to have heroic versions of (another good reason to drop the 4pc with those wf legs).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I gemmed the pants/helm and swapped it out, assuming the extra stats like you mentioned would be beneficial even when the 5 second proc's ICD is on its cooldown. I don't think I ever did have my tier shoulders from normal Blackfuse sadly lol I had an offset piece and straight to heroic, so we'll see how it goes. Appreciate the input though. I'm not entirely sure how to Sim let alone customize it to tell it when to proc, but as long as it's not a drastic drop in overall DPS, I'm not complaining about 570 ilvl. Thanks again for the input.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

No problem.  It will come down to testing to see if the increase in stats is better.  Like I said, my thought is that since its a helm with ideal stat wait to replace the proc, overall DPS will increase as other procs have potential to be more potent overall.  Just don't miss your other procs and good luck!

 

P.S. - Clear for tier, worth it

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So far it's definitely worth the change. If I ever see H Thok/Siegecrafter/Paragons, of course I'll take the tier but I haven't seen any heroic tier beyond Nazgrim. Lazy guild is lazy.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well, I disagree that this change should be worth it.

 

The 4 set is better than you think it is. You can maintain immolate with 100% uptime on it, and with proper play you will be able to always have at least a 15% damage modifier on every chaos bolt.

 

The extra stats shouldn't trump the 4 set. You're only going from Normal to Heroic. If it was flex tier for 2x heroic off pieces then yeah it would be better to drop it.

 

I simmed you in your current gear vs what you had with 4 set, and 4 set came out ahead by 10K DPS.

 

Furthermore, you're going to get 4 set eventually. Why not learn how to use it now rather than later?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You should never drop your 4pc unless you're going from about LFR tier to RWF or H off items. Going from reg to heroic is way to small a gain in stats to drop your 4pc for.

 

 

Just look at the stats:

 

Heroic Swirling + RWF Shipley's = 4448int, 1445 crit, 3515mastery, 1314 haste and 320 hit.

 

Reg tier = 4140int, 1388crit, 2936 mastery, 1443 haste.

 

Going from tier to off set gives you 308 int, 57 crit, 579 mastery, 320 hit, with -129 haste.

 

 

4pc has about a 30% uptime, Immolate should have the extra 15% 100% of the time, CB will be snapped with it more times then not, and used well will buff your ember gen by a solid amount. 

 

The buff does scale with player skill like all snap shotting, the better you are the more valuable it is. If you find snap shotting to be an issue you have problems with now then you should be focusing on bettering your game play then +/- a few 100 stats.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

"Only 15%..."

 

15% is not a small deal when you're talking about landing a Chaos Bolt.  If you use your 4pc on every Chaos Bolt and you average 1,000,000 baseline, you'll be doing 1,150,000 with each time.  7 proper Chaos Bolts will bang you out an additional 1M damage without trinket procs.  Your boost in stats won't give you that baseline.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well if these guys Sim'd it, I trust them, they put a lot more numbers into their input.  My perspective was that you weren't having fun trying to capture the proc being 5 seconds either due to latency or just lack of proper use with Immolate as priority, then CB.  Also, do not wait til HThok to pick up the 4pc again if not using it is working out better for you. Make the switch back even with Nazzy hands and go back to practicing because the 4pc is extremely strong if used properly.

Edited by Gnar

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Even if you aren't actively utilising 4pc to renew immolate and cast chaos bolts, it's still probably not worth dropping 4pc. But you should be actively utilising it because it's amazing.

Edited by Oldtrout

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Don't discount the overall extra embers you generate from immolate rolling with Crit% buffs up. Every crit of immolate gives you 0.2 embers. Over the course of the fight, you are going to be able to cast a few more CB's.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Don't discount the overall extra embers you generate from immolate rolling with Crit% buffs up. Every crit of immolate gives you 0.2 embers. Over the course of the fight, you are going to be able to cast a few more CB's.

Although what you said is rotationally correct, unlike other ember generators, Immolate generates .1 ember if and only if it crits. Just posting this to avoid confusion.

Edited by Gnar

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Although what you said is rotationally correct, unlike other ember generators, Immolate generates .1 ember if and only if it crits. Just posting this out to avoid confusion.

Ahh, yes was thinking of incinerate for some reason. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

  • Similar Content

    • By Narii625
      SERVER: Illidan
      RAID TIMES: Fridays & Sundays 10pm - 1am/2am* Server Time (CT)
      CURRENT PROGRESSION: 1/8M 8/8H
      iLVL REQUIREMENT: 365+
       
      CURRENTLY RECRUITING
      Tank Healer Need Holy Paladin All DPS Pref Mage/Shaman for BL ABOUT US
      Currently looking for skilled semi-hardcore raiders for Mythic Uldir and the next raid tier.
      Booty Pirates is a semi-hardcore, close-knit late night guild that hangs out in Discord frequently. We enjoy joking around, playing alts, doing Mythic+, playing other games, or just hanging out. 
      Players wanting just Mythic+ and a casual experience (no raiding) are welcomed!
      Fun guild events are scheduled often!
      TLDR; we're very social with guild members that actually talk to each other. 
      (18+ required, we talk like pirates!)
                *Raid can be extended to 4 hours on Fridays, but will be announced ahead of time.
      JOINING THE BOOTY PIRATES CREW
      Please follow the link below to fill out our app. (For both Raiders and Mythic+/Casual.)
      Start the app here! 
      Battle.net ID: LadyPluu#1299
      In-Game Name: Pluu
    • By Starlysa
      Have you been searching for a guild that feels like home, has a sense of community, and can make friendships that last? Are you searching for a guild that knows what it's like to be a parent, a working adult, or just busy in real life but still enjoys playing video games in your freetime? If you answered yes, then Evolved Gaming will be perfect for you! We understand that real life comes first, but it’s nice to have that online family and community to come home to in your free time.
      Evolved was created to provide a drama free, family oriented, and people focused environment for mature (18+) gamers who wish to play online without the antics often found in open games. We believe that the person behind the keyboard is more important than the pixels on the screen and that everyone should have the opportunity to play without fear of being harassed, heckled, or abused.
      We are actively recruiting for our three raid teams. Of course, you don’t have to raid to join and we don’t require you raid every night. We understand that real life comes first! We like to think of ourselves as accomplished casual raiders - we’re still casual but when it comes to getting new bosses and content down, we take it seriously while still having fun!
      Evolved is an Alliance guild on the Proudmoore server.
      Evolved Raiding Progress
      Uldir  8/8N, 8/8H, 1/8M
      https://raider.io/guilds/us/proudmoore/Evolved
      Raid Schedule
      Tuesday- 6-8 pm server time (PST)
      Friday- 6-8 pm server time (PST) with optional hour until 9 pm
      Saturday- 6-8 pm server time (PST) with optional hour until 9 pm
      We are most in need of healers and ranged dps!
      Open Raid (Members/Alts)
      Sunday- 6-8 pm server time (PST)
       
      For you non-raiders, we offer many activities including:
      *Active Discord and Guild chat for your social amusement or distraction 😉
      *Fun Discord Contests
      *Guild Achievement Runs for transmog and achievement points
      *Multiple PvP events each month to get your Horde slaying fix in!
      *Tons of Dungeon runs including Mythic+ Key pushing as well as training for people new to mythic keys
      *Twitch Streaming for those who enjoying streaming and/or watching
      https://www.twitch.tv/evolvedgaming18/
       
      If this sounds like it would be a good home for you and you wish to apply or if you have any questions, feel free to reach out to me through BNet Starlight200#1548 or Discord Star#0700. You can also do a /who Evolved and whisper any member to talk to an officer 🙂
      You can apply at our forums at:
      https://community.evolvedgaming.org/
      Evolved Gaming is focused on building connections and friendships that grow not just in one game, but can evolve and span across many games and communities. Our player’s want more than just a bunch of random people to join them in games, but people who actually care and want to be there. We would love to have you be part of our community!
       
       
    • By skro
      Hi all,
      We're a newly formed (Alliance) Raiding Guild/Community and we're in need of you!
      With newly formed I mean really newly formed, we have created this Guild this week!
      We started this guild with a team of Raiders who all wanted to do more than our previous guild was able to offer.
      We are currently 12 ppl who want to have a nice time progression on Heroic and Mythic raiding.
      The aim is to raid 2 or 3 days a week.
      (Below is the info for the guild, if you're not willing to raid standard days and/or join a guild, you're more then welcome to join our community! Do note that once the guild is up to speed, the Guild members will always have priority over Community members for a spot in the raid team.)
      <Have a Beautiful Time> Is recruiting Community raiders and Guild members for their brand-new Raiding Guild and/or Community. 
      Current setup (which we're looking to expand): 2/3/7
      Current kills (Uldir): 8/8 Normal, 5/8 Heroic, 0/8 Mythic.
      Our raid days: Wednesday and (2nd (+maybe 3rd) day to be decided)
      Raid gear requirements: ilvl 355+
      Guild server: Thunderhorn/Wildhammer
      RL age minimum: 18+ (Sorry but we do not want to have to mind our words on Discord)
      Next to raiding we are always gear oriented, which shows in the fact that we run higher Mythic+ dungeons together on the off raid days.
      Next to the fact that we have some PvP teams going.
      Having the ability to join discord is obligated, this is a hard obligation and can not be skipped.
      You're not obligated to talk, but you need to be able to listen during the raids to our raidleader(s)
      We are very serious about raiding and higher Mythic+ dungeons, but on the off time, we are not a serious bunch of ppl.
      If you like serious gameplay and around it some nice social times on discord with your guildies, this is the place to be for you! 
      (I have to warn you though, as we're all some kind of crazy ^^)
      We are hoping to welcome you in our team soon!

      Battletag in case you're interested and want to know more add GM: medamenG#21942
      Or add our recruitment officer: sabetsu#2412
    • By Babblet
      Location: Horde, US Connected Realms: Aegwynn, Bonechewer, Daggerspine, Gurubashi, Hakkar. 
      Raiding Times: Mon/Tue 7:30 PM EST - 11:30 PM EST
       
      About us:
      We are former nolife raiders who now enjoy spending time outside our basements in the real world. Our total play time has decreased slightly but we still strive to meaningfully progress our characters through end game raiding. Currently we are recruiting new members to help us progress in the upcoming expansion. Join us and lets slay Dragons together!
      Apply if you are:
      interested in end game content; M+ Dungeons and Heroic/Mythic Raiding capable of critical thought and willing to contribute when discussing strategy a self-starter who plays to improve and keeps up to date with latest theorycraft always on time and reliable  
      Recruitment Status: minimum ilvl 355, recruiting Melee DPS/Ranged DPS/Heals.
      Current progression: https://www.wowprogress.com/guild/us/hakkar/Korben+Dallas+Multipass
       
      Contacts/Battle Tags:
      Shig#1825 (Guild Master)
      SODIUM#11394 (Officer)
      Silvadine#1273 (Officer)
      Discord:
      Shig#8835
      Sodium#2032
      Silvadine#1277
    • By Kaatra
      Hi everyone,

      We are a guild that transferred from Alexstrasza to join the progression raiding scene as that server is very low population now. We are currently 8/8N and 4/8H uldir, and looking to move into heroics soon and mythic just after. 

      We do more than just raid, we love to do keys, transmog runs, and even some PvP. We have a large range of players from several walks of life and have a unique and fun atmosphere, we are friendly and love helping people. 

      We are looking for a few more members for our Sunday/Monday 5-8pm PST, and our tue/third 5-8pm PST. If anyone is interested in raid leading that will work too.

      We are primarily east coast based but have a plethora of players that are on at all times of day.

      Main needs for our raid team:
      ranged dps
      Healers
      Exceptional players

      Of course all players as welcome as we do other guild activities such as world PVP, keys, xmog and other social activities.

      So come join this very active guild and we hope to hear from you.

      If you would like more information please add my btag at Kaatra#5865.

      I look forward to hearing from all of you.