Vomitory

Worth Breaking 4P for Heoric Upgrade?

Sign in to follow this  

14 posts in this topic

My armory, for reference.

 

As of now, I'm wearing my four piece Tier set for the bonus as Destruction, which we all know is pretty good. However, I am thinking about swapping inv_helm_cloth_raidwarlock_n_01.jpgHood of the Horned Nightmare with inv_helm_cloth_raidmage_n_01.jpgHood of Swirling Senses and I'm wondering if it's worth losing the bonus. I think about the lack of the 15% crit for 5 seconds, and while it's a nice little boost to damage, it's a minimal period of time and it's only 15% (I'd have passed on the helm if it was 30%+ for 5 seconds). I also don't have the gold to just re-meta and gem it up to test it to see if it's a minimal difference. But I'm thinking the intellect and static crit is worth it in the end, even if only a little bit. Hoping someone with some theorycrafting experience might be able to give some input before I spend the VP/gold on my legendary meta.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Without putting it thru Sim and telling Sim to use procs properly, its probably worth it to drop the 4pc and do some testing.  The 5 sec proc is particularly useful for casting immolate in and CB if you have another small proc or you will cap before your next assumed proc. That being said, the base crit on the helm will allow you to try and max out immolate for damage and ticks over crit chance to generate embers and CB average should go up since that helm has much more of each stat your are looking for.  Also, you should gem the head out regardless and replace your shoulders and legs with tier if you have it assuming you want the 4pc back.  Head, chest, and legs have the highest stat budget meaning much more SP and much better to have heroic versions of (another good reason to drop the 4pc with those wf legs).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I gemmed the pants/helm and swapped it out, assuming the extra stats like you mentioned would be beneficial even when the 5 second proc's ICD is on its cooldown. I don't think I ever did have my tier shoulders from normal Blackfuse sadly lol I had an offset piece and straight to heroic, so we'll see how it goes. Appreciate the input though. I'm not entirely sure how to Sim let alone customize it to tell it when to proc, but as long as it's not a drastic drop in overall DPS, I'm not complaining about 570 ilvl. Thanks again for the input.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

No problem.  It will come down to testing to see if the increase in stats is better.  Like I said, my thought is that since its a helm with ideal stat wait to replace the proc, overall DPS will increase as other procs have potential to be more potent overall.  Just don't miss your other procs and good luck!

 

P.S. - Clear for tier, worth it

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So far it's definitely worth the change. If I ever see H Thok/Siegecrafter/Paragons, of course I'll take the tier but I haven't seen any heroic tier beyond Nazgrim. Lazy guild is lazy.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well, I disagree that this change should be worth it.

 

The 4 set is better than you think it is. You can maintain immolate with 100% uptime on it, and with proper play you will be able to always have at least a 15% damage modifier on every chaos bolt.

 

The extra stats shouldn't trump the 4 set. You're only going from Normal to Heroic. If it was flex tier for 2x heroic off pieces then yeah it would be better to drop it.

 

I simmed you in your current gear vs what you had with 4 set, and 4 set came out ahead by 10K DPS.

 

Furthermore, you're going to get 4 set eventually. Why not learn how to use it now rather than later?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You should never drop your 4pc unless you're going from about LFR tier to RWF or H off items. Going from reg to heroic is way to small a gain in stats to drop your 4pc for.

 

 

Just look at the stats:

 

Heroic Swirling + RWF Shipley's = 4448int, 1445 crit, 3515mastery, 1314 haste and 320 hit.

 

Reg tier = 4140int, 1388crit, 2936 mastery, 1443 haste.

 

Going from tier to off set gives you 308 int, 57 crit, 579 mastery, 320 hit, with -129 haste.

 

 

4pc has about a 30% uptime, Immolate should have the extra 15% 100% of the time, CB will be snapped with it more times then not, and used well will buff your ember gen by a solid amount. 

 

The buff does scale with player skill like all snap shotting, the better you are the more valuable it is. If you find snap shotting to be an issue you have problems with now then you should be focusing on bettering your game play then +/- a few 100 stats.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

"Only 15%..."

 

15% is not a small deal when you're talking about landing a Chaos Bolt.  If you use your 4pc on every Chaos Bolt and you average 1,000,000 baseline, you'll be doing 1,150,000 with each time.  7 proper Chaos Bolts will bang you out an additional 1M damage without trinket procs.  Your boost in stats won't give you that baseline.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well if these guys Sim'd it, I trust them, they put a lot more numbers into their input.  My perspective was that you weren't having fun trying to capture the proc being 5 seconds either due to latency or just lack of proper use with Immolate as priority, then CB.  Also, do not wait til HThok to pick up the 4pc again if not using it is working out better for you. Make the switch back even with Nazzy hands and go back to practicing because the 4pc is extremely strong if used properly.

Edited by Gnar

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Even if you aren't actively utilising 4pc to renew immolate and cast chaos bolts, it's still probably not worth dropping 4pc. But you should be actively utilising it because it's amazing.

Edited by Oldtrout

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Don't discount the overall extra embers you generate from immolate rolling with Crit% buffs up. Every crit of immolate gives you 0.2 embers. Over the course of the fight, you are going to be able to cast a few more CB's.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Don't discount the overall extra embers you generate from immolate rolling with Crit% buffs up. Every crit of immolate gives you 0.2 embers. Over the course of the fight, you are going to be able to cast a few more CB's.

Although what you said is rotationally correct, unlike other ember generators, Immolate generates .1 ember if and only if it crits. Just posting this to avoid confusion.

Edited by Gnar

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Although what you said is rotationally correct, unlike other ember generators, Immolate generates .1 ember if and only if it crits. Just posting this out to avoid confusion.

Ahh, yes was thinking of incinerate for some reason. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

Sign in to follow this  

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

  • Similar Content

    • By Matster
      Semi-Hardcore Guild Looking for new Blood to fill our team. We are looking to fill Healer and DPS spots (preferably Ranged). Having a Immunity class is a plus. We like to run Mythic+ on non raid nights and do events every once in a while. We are a laid-back group that likes to Joke around, but still progress content. Hoping to clear Heroic soon and move into Mythic. 
      What we Offer:
      -Mythic+ Groups
      -Cross Realm Runs to trial
      -Chill Enviroment with a mind on Progression
      -Character Catch-up for Undergeared players Main Characters
      -Heroic Raiding as our primary Focus, Doing Mythic is a bonus after clearing Heroic (working on a steady 20 atm)
      What we are Looking for:
      Immunity RDPS Classes (Mage, Hunter, Possibly DH or palidan) - High
      Ranged DPS Classes - Medium
      Melee DPS - Low
      AOE Healers - High
      Raid Times:
      Mon-Wed; 8-11 Central time
      Times may possibly change (looking to move for better availability Days)
      Contacts:
      add my battle tag at Braz203#1596
      Or leave a message on this Page
    • By Nobbykinz
      Autumn Mist is a raiding & social guild looking for players like you.
      http://www.autumn-mist.net

      We are mostly searching to increase our DPS raid team so we can advance onto Mythic.
      We are a very active guild with events on most days:

      Wed: TOS Heroic
      Thurs: TOS Heroic  
      Fri: Mythic + night  
      Sat: Day of Alcohol
      Sun: TOS Mythic  
      Mon: TOS Normal  
      Tues: Transmog Tuesday  

      All starting at 8pm Server time other then the whole day events and posted in the calender.
      Feel free to apply via the website, or add me on bnet if you want a chat, Nobbykinz#2994 all questions welcome.
    • By Diio
      nvm
    • By molodirazz
      All applications will be reviewed and considered however if you are playing a class/spec combination we need then your chances of joining will be higher.
      A little bit of info about us:
      We are a group of friends and serious raiders on EU Twisting Nether looking to recruit skilled like-minded players into our roster for Mythic Legion raids and onwards. We will offer a sociable and fun raiding environment while maintaining a strong desire for progression. Our Discord is very active and we encourage all members to chat and play together not only for raids. The guild formed late March 2016 and fully cleared 13/13 Mythic Hellfire Citadel pre nerf shortly after. We've since been improving our world ranking every tier.
      We currently raid 3 days per week on Mythic: Wednesday, Sunday and Tuesday 19:15-22:15 server time. While it is not a lot we try to make the most out of our time. We run optional heroic/normal/alt/previous tier raids during off days in which raiders are welcome to come to. Our members also play other games outside raid times together where anyone is welcome to join(LoL, Dota, HotS, Overwatch etc.).
      Our loot system for Mythic is RC Loot Council.
      What we expect from you:
      - We are a raiding guild with only a 9 hour per week schedule so you are expected to attend and be ON TIME! However we understand things can come up sometimes but please let us know.
      - Be able to speak and understand the English language and not be afraid to communicate with other members during raids.
      - Actively doing dungeons/world quests to improve your gear and artifact weapon.
      - Have a strong understanding of the current raid tier and be able to play your class to it's potential.
      - Always come to raids prepared(i.e. bringing food and potions, etc).
      - Come fully gemmed and enchanted with the correct stats for your class and spec.
      - Access to Discord and a working microphone.
      - Have a computer that can handle 20 man raiding and a good, stable internet connection.
      - Exorsus Raid Tools, Weakauras2 and RC Loot Council addons installed. We may ask you to install others.

      If you have any further questions please contact us at battletags: Vims#21684 Azkey#21565
      To apply please visit our guild website: http://asylum-tn.enjin.com/recruitment
      __________________________________________________________________________
      Requirements to be considered into current main raids:
      - 920~ ilvl
      - 52+ traits.
      - 3/9 in ToS.
      - Exceptions to the requirements may be made..
      _____________________________________________________________________________
      We're currently looking for the classes below but may consider other classes as well.
      Death Knight: Blood.
      Druid: Guardian and Balance.
      Hunter: MM/BM.
      Monk: Brewmaster.
      Rogue: Open.
      Warlock: Open.
      Any and all applications will be considered.
    • By Cahones
      Threat Level Midnight is a group of players who get together Sunday nights from 6-10 PM CDT to raid current content. We limit our ceiling to heroic mode content because we have many raid members with real life priorities who can't commit to a more hardcore schedule. We're a laid back group and take raiding just seriously enough to get heroic content cleared. We have quite a few raiders that have hardcore raid experience from previous expansions. 

      What we need

      DPS HIGH need, we have pretty solid heals and tanks, we just need more dps to push to a 15-18 man raid size. If you can offspec heal or tank bonus points.

      We are also accepting cross realm recruits, who are maybe an alt that they're pugging through content each week, or in a non raiding guild that you don't want to leave. Any skilled and reliable players that can make our raid time

      Bonus points if you can do The Scarn

      We could consider any other classes but ranged right now are at the highest demand. We wanted to add people that can add to the friendly environment. If you're interested contact me on bnet Cahones#1561 or discord Cahones#3167. Discord is best for fastest response.

      Also hosting PUG normal ToS for the time being on Saturday nights, get in contact with me if you're interested in that, although that raid start time will vary week to week