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Sableflame

Typhon's Thor-Hydra Build

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Hello fellow demon slayers,

Myself and my playing group had a lot of high hopes for the Typhon's Wizard set when it was announced... but alas, as we've seen, it doesn't seem to be able to bring the goods.

I'm never one to give up easy though! So, I thought a Thor-Hydra build might give it a chance to shine and came up with:

Head - The Magistrate Typhon's
Shoulders - Typhon's
Hands - Typhon's/Tasker & Theo (best rolled, see chest)
Wrists - Ashnagarr's Blood Bracer
Ring1 - Manald Heal
Ring2 - Halo of Karini
Neck - Squirt's - Option: Well-rolled/Ancient/Primal Hellfire Amulet with 1 of the chosen Passives, to allow for a 5th
Chest - Typhon's/Aquila Cuirass (best rolled, see hands)
Legs - Typhon's
Feet - Typhon's
Waist - Cord of the Sherma (mass crowd control with chain lightning) - Option: The Witching Hour (less control but more pure damage)
Weapon - Serpent's Sparker/Fragment of Destiny (best rolled)
Off-Hand - Myken's Ball of Hate

Stats: +Lightning Damage (Amulet, Bracer); +Hydra damage (Feet, Torso, Shoulder, Source, Head)
Secondary Stats: Any of the crowd control effects will serve you well

Kanai's Weapon - Sparker/Fragment
Kanai's Armor - Tasker and Theo/The Magistrate Aquila Cuirass (whichever didn't get put on hands/chest)
Kanai's Jewelry - Ring of Royal Grandeur
(can wear if you get a good one and want the full Manald bonus here)

L Mouse - Electrocute/Chain Lightning
R Mouse - Hydra/Lightning Hydra
1 - Black Hole/Supermassive
2 - Teleport/Safe Passage
3 - Magic Weapon/Deflection
4 - Storm Armor/Power of the Storm

Passives: Paralysis, Galvanizing Ward, Unwavering Will Audacity, (see Note 5) - 4th you have choices: As yet, I've still been able to get away with Glass Cannon. When the damage level gets too high for that, either Arcane Dynamo (stack and cast Hydra) or Elemental Exposure (swap source to Primordial Soul and make sure your weapon is Fire or Arcane - you should get the at least 3 stacks then - Lightning everywhere, Fire/Arcane from weapon, Cold from Hydra Frost Novas) (see Note 4 - with the loss of The Magistrate, there's no means where EE's 5%/10% buffs stack up to other choices)

**EDIT NOTE 4** After testing, singular moments of spike damage were enough to overwhelm the meager additional shields provided by Dominance, or in those moments between pulls when both Dominance and Storm Armor's Karini buff has fallen off. Needed a more consistent means of survival between pulls or when chaos reigns:

  • Drop The Magistrate, replace with Typhon's head
  • Drop Typhon's Chest/Hands (I dropped chest, as I have a Primal Ancient hands waiting when the Season ends), replace with Aquila Cuirass/Tasker & Theo, cube your other.
  • Drop Dominance, replace with Arcane Dynamo (you should almost constantly have 5 Flashes, so each Hydra you cast will have the 60% damage buff - don't waste the Flashes on a Black Hole cast, if you can avoid it).

**EDIT NOTE 5** After further testing, defense has not been a problem, offense has. Unwavering Will requires you to set for 1.5 seconds to get a meager 10% damage bonus. Due to the Wizard's need to stay mobile (avoiding damage keeps shields up, Squirt's bonus intact), I have found that circling the enemies (with short bursts of Chain Lightning to keep Fragment bonus active) while my Hydras do their thing is more conducive, and therefore Audacity, with it's static 30% bonus is vastly superior to UW for this build.

LeGems: Enforcer, Bane of the Trapped/Stricken
Helm: Diamond (cd on BH) Option: Amethyst, to make the Galvanizing Ward shield as large as possible. (TEST: Shield with Diamond & 968k Health = 1.115m - Shield with Amethyst & 1.1m Health = 1.268m. Not sure 150k damage soak is worth the loss of 12.5% cd, especially as this build does not carry a "teleport reset" condition)
Torso/Legs: Topaz (damage & Resist All) - Can switch out for Armor gems as your Paragon level grows, as needed.
Weapon: Emerald (of course)

Now, I've got all the pieces, but most of them are only passable. Few if any Ancients, and nothing I would classify as a perfectly rolled piece. That being said, however, the build has thus far pushed into the mid 80s as it is.

**EDIT NOTE** GR87 finished w/3:15 remaining. Damage coming in was not hurting, outgoing damage was beginning to be an issue. Need better/Ancient gear to continue legitimate pushing.

**EDIT NOTE 2** It turns out I did NOT, in fact, have Squirt's Necklace on... oops. Having acquired an Ancient of said (and a few others), dropping Glass Cannon for Dominance (more shields to keep Squirt's buff active) (see note 4), I went from an 11:45 GR87 to an 8:11 GR89 - with nearly 7 minutes to spare, I think this has a little more push in it before I need to start in with Caldesann's.

**EDIT NOTE 3** GR93 in 14:09, still using a basic weapon. This appears to be the current limit of the build (without dipping into Caldesann's boosts) until I can acquire the remaining Ancients (weapon, both rings, bracer).

I was looking around for a "Tier Classification (S, A, B, C) to Approximate Greater Rift Level" translation list... but I couldn't readily find one. But, seeing how poorly the Typhon's Set has yet performed, anything into triple digits should be considered a win at this point.

Play style:

IMPORTANT: The first thing you should do in ANY new location (transition from a load screen) is toss down 2 Hydras. One of your MAJOR sources of defense in this build is the 4-piece bonus of 8% damage reduction per active Hydra head (80% with both Hydras out and the 2-piece head bonus). Waiting until you find a pack to toss your first Hydra will almost always result in your death/triggering your death avoidance (follower or passive, if you took that).

With 4 of your 6 abilities (all 3 offensive ones and one of the defensive ones) able to trigger Paralysis, even the 15% proc rate won't feel that low... unless the RNG Lords simply outright hate you.

Between passive regeneration and the cost reduction from PotS, you can "walk Hydras" (cast a new one at the edge of the screen every half-screen of movement) and remain at full power (this was more of a consideration when I had AC cubed, but T&T's attack speed buff is too good to pass up for buffed Hydras). (see note 4, AC is back on the menu). You definitely need to keep your Hydras out in front of you at all times to pick up whatever is coming onto the edge of your field of view... early engagement and thinning of large Rift packs is a key piece to your survival.

Also, I'm not exactly sure why, but repeated empirical testing seems to bear this out - putting your Hydras one on either side of an enemy seems to have them focus more on whatever is between them. It sounds ridiculous, but I've put them side by side, front and back, spread wide on the screen... every time I put them where one is attacking an enemy/group from one direction and the other is on the opposite side, they clearly appear to burn down the pack/enemy quicker. Hidden flanking critical bonus? Strange RNG luck over and over again? Who knows... see if it works the same way for you.

Any time Sherma procs, you will get a wide zone of enemies just standing around lost (blind). Drop 2nd Hydra, Crank chain lightning (it takes almost no time to get to 10 Fragment stacks), Hydras and/or Manald Heal levels everything.

If you catch a group and Cord hasn't procced (or is on its internal cd) - BH/Supermassive pulls double duty as crowd control and trigger for Paralysis/Manald Heal - drop Hydras, rinse, lather, repeat.

Edited by Sableflame

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So, I realized that my live updating the build has left it something of a patchwork mess, so I figured I would rectify that in a reply post, along with a few additional thoughts as they have come up.

First, the current iteration(s) of the build:

Head - Typhon's
Shoulders - Typhon's
Hands - Typhon's/Tasker & Theo (best rolled, see chest)
Wrists - Ashnagarr's Blood Bracer
Ring1 - Manald Heal (Build 1) / Convention of Elements (Build 2)
Ring2 - Halo of Karini
Neck - Squirt's
Chest - Typhon's/Aquila Cuirass (best rolled, see hands)
Legs - Typhon's
Feet - Typhon's
Waist - Cord of the Sherma
Weapon - Serpent's Sparker/Fragment of Destiny (best rolled)
Off-Hand - Myken's Ball of Hate (Build 1) / Primordial Soul (Build 2)

Build 1 Stats: +Lightning Damage (Amulet, Bracer); +Crit%/Crit Damage (anywhere you can get it)
Build 2 Stats: +Crit%/Crit Damage (anywhere you can get it); Damage Reduction Melee/Ranged/Elite
Secondary Stats: Any of the crowd control effects will serve you well

Kanai's Weapon - Sparker/Fragment
Kanai's Armor - Tasker and Theo/Aquila Cuirass (whichever didn't get put on hands/chest)
Kanai's Jewelry - Ring of Royal Grandeur (can wear if you get a good one and want the full Manald or CoE bonus here)

Build 1 w/Manald Heal:
L Mouse - Electrocute/Chain Lightning
R Mouse - Hydra/Lightning Hydra
1 - Black Hole/Supermassive
2 - Teleport/Safe Passage
3 - Magic Weapon/Deflection
4 - Storm Armor/Power of the Storm

Build 2 w/CoE:
L Mouse - Electrocute/Forked Lightning (Fire Damage)
R Mouse - Hydra/Frost Hydra (Cold Damage)
1 - Black Hole/Spellsteal (Arcane Damage)
2 - Teleport/Safe Passage
3 - Magic Weapon/Deflection
4 - Storm Armor/Power of the Storm (Lightning Damage)

Passives: Galvanizing Ward, Arcane Dynamo, Audacity
Build 1 w/Manald Heal: Paralysis
Build 2 w/CoE: Elemental Exposure

Legendary Gems: Enforcer, Bane of the Trapped, Bane of the Stricken

Helm: Diamond
Torso/Legs: Topaz (damage & Resist All) - Can switch out for Armor gems as your Paragon level grows, as needed.
Weapon: Emerald (of course)

Optional Belt: The Witching Hour (less control but more pure damage) - I would not recommend this for Build 2, as without the lightning heavy Paralysis build, you have only your Black Hole on cd for crowd control.

Play style:

IMPORTANT: The first thing you should do in ANY new location (transition from a load screen) is toss down 2 Hydras. One of your MAJOR sources of defense in this build is the 4-piece bonus of 8% damage reduction per active Hydra head (80% with both Hydras out and the 2-piece head bonus). Waiting until you find a pack to toss your first Hydra will almost always result in your death/triggering your death avoidance (follower or passive, if you took that).

Between passive regeneration and the cost reduction from PotS, you can "walk Hydras" (cast a new one at the edge of the screen every half-screen of movement) and remain at full power and maintain your Aquila Cuirass buff. You definitely need to keep your Hydras out in front of you at all times to pick up whatever is coming onto the edge of your field of view... early engagement and thinning of large Rift packs is a key piece to your survival.

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Interesting build. It's fun to "roll your own" to see how far it can go. I'm also using the Typhon set this season, but sticking with the Frost Hydra build from Deadset on this site. A few comments on your build:

I would go for double crit on the amulet rather than prioritizing lightning damage. That's my general rule, but also I don't believe the Manald Heal effect benefits from the % lightning damage. If that's correct, you could probably even drop it from the bracers in favor of more toughness/recovery.

I'm using the Shame of Delsere belt (per Deadset). The increased attack speed for your signature spell is a big help in getting the Arcane Dynamo stacks up quickly. Witching Hour is probably also viable here.The effect of Cord of Sherma is valuable, but you can get that with it on your follower now, so no need to wear it.

You don't say anything about your follower and skills/gear. I'm finding the Scoundrel to be the follower of choice for pushing, while I use the enchantress with gold finding gear (and Sage set) for regular rifts and bounties. That also makes switching modes easier. 

I'm surprised you went away from The Magistrate in favor of T&T and Aquila. The cubed Magistrate gives you triple the damage in a separate multiplier and also the crowd control from the frost novas the hydras cast. T&T at best gives you 50% extra damage from speeding up the hydra attacks. Plus it's hard to get a well-rolled T&T. The faster hydra attacks may proc the Manald Heal sooner, but there's still a minimum cooldown time on that, IIRC.

You get a lot of damage reduction, as you noted, from the hydras/Typhon and from the Halo of Karini. For me, with those and the shield from Galvanizing Ward enhanced by the bracers, "Hermione" is plenty tough even at GR 105. So, I wonder if you really have a toughness problem vs. the need to kill faster by increasing damage. So, if you dropped Aquila again in favor of Magistrate and T&T you get a big increase in consistent damage for a tradeoff of situational protection (i.e. no protection when your arcane power is below the threshold). That seems like it should be a good tradeoff to me.

Best,

Dan

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On 5/23/2021 at 2:29 PM, DannyBoy said:

Interesting build. ...

Thank you. I do try and find new and fun ways to mix things up.

Regarding a few of your points:

Crit on Amulet - if you can get it all, that would be optimal. I listed Ltng% on it simply as that is one of the only places you CAN get it. Crit is available in many others. The build's entire damage output is lightning, so a flat 20% boost felt stronger than a slight bump to the chance at a spike. Personal taste, I guess.

Manald Heal and Ltng% - I will leave this one to the experts, as so many interactions between items and bonuses are variable in the coding between what does and what doesn't affect from one to the next (which is intensely frustrating). MH damage is more of a secondary function, however. It doesn't stand up to the amount done with the set bonus, it's just added flavor.

Cord - Cord is NOT an Emanate, you can't get its effect from putting it on your follower. With Chain Lightning, I never have an issue with Dynamo stacks, it's at 5 practically from the moment you press the attack. I would rather have the additional form of crowd control than a damage boost to an ability that is literally only there to proc Paralysis/insta-charge Dynamo.

Follower - I find follower to be a matter of personal taste, so I never make a recommendation there. For ranged builds, I tend to prefer the Templar, simply because he can meat shield in between me and whatever spears, arrows, balls of fire/hate/whatever are being flung in my general direction, and his other auxiliary skills are useful for distracting things that occasionally break through.

Magistrate - This is another situation where I get frustrated at the "What's additive and what's multiplicative?" nature of this game. If I had known Magistrate's damage was multiplicative, of course I would have kept it over other options. To be fair, though, because the Lightning Hydra is a single target attacker (as opposed to the Frost Hydra's cone), it very much needs the attack speed boost. In a crowd, even with T&T, they have a very hard time keeping up. This is, unfortunately, where I came to the conclusion that this build was not going to be able to crack into any sort of top end competition. Were you able to put out 3-5 Hydras like you can DH Turrets, for instance, you may stand a chance... but just the two of them, even sped up, can't burn down a Rift horde in the upper 90s in a feasible amount of time.

AC was a constant uptime. Hydras don't use enough AP to draw you down below the DR threshold. The only time AC would drop is in the very beginning of a run if/when you trigger Storm Armor/Magic Weapon in quick sequence. That being said, knowing what I do now regarding Magistrate, I would definitely blow AC again, and drop Manald Heal for a matched set of Unity on my follower to cover for the DR loss.

*EDIT* Worth mentioning that once I did call quitsies on Thor Hydra, I did swap over to Frost, and am in the low 110s now.

Edited by Sableflame
more talk

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For anyone else who does also happen to read this... something I mused about while Leaderboard watching:

I don't know what Paragon level some of these guys here at IV are at. They make terrific builds and guides, that much is true.

However, other players - don't get discouraged if you're not "up there" even when using these builds and using them right.

The very top of the US Wizard Leaderboards are a couple of guys with Paragon levels over ELEVEN THOUSAND, and hitting GR150.

I've owned D3 almost since launch (long enough ago that I made money on the real world Auction House 😛 ) - and while I have taken some lengthy breaks from the game... for perspective, my next Paragon level will be ONE thousand.

I'd be fooling myself if I didn't take into account that someone with 10,000 more Int and/or Vit than me is going to have an easier time Rift pushing than I am.

And you should keep that in mind, too.

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4 hours ago, Sableflame said:

Cord - Cord is NOT an Emanate, you can't get its effect from putting it on your follower. With Chain Lightning, I never have an issue with Dynamo stacks, it's at 5 practically from the moment you press the attack. I would rather have the additional form of crowd control than a damage boost to an ability that is literally only there to proc Paralysis/insta-charge Dynamo.

...

Magistrate - This is another situation where I get frustrated at the "What's additive and what's multiplicative?" nature of this game. If I had known Magistrate's damage was multiplicative, of course I would have kept it over other options. To be fair, though, because the Lightning Hydra is a single target attacker (as opposed to the Frost Hydra's cone), it very much needs the attack speed boost. In a crowd, even with T&T, they have a very hard time keeping up. This is, unfortunately, where I came to the conclusion that this build was not going to be able to crack into any sort of top end competition. Were you able to put out 3-5 Hydras like you can DH Turrets, for instance, you may stand a chance... but just the two of them, even sped up, can't burn down a Rift horde in the upper 90s in a feasible amount of time.

You are correct that Cord does not have Emanate, but follower hits are enough to proc it, so you don't really need the Emanate feature to benefit from it on the follower.  If you don't need to stack your Dynamo faster, probably the extra damage for Witching Hour would be be best. I can definitely see your point about the need for T&T with the single target lightning vs. area damage frost hydras. 

I agree about the confusion in the game about multiplicative vs. additive effects. It is irritating. Similarly, what does and does not proc Manald Heal and what that 14,000% damage is applied to, is not that clear. Deadset's builds here that talk about Manald Heal say it doesn't benefit from the % Lightning Damage affix, That makes no sense, of course, but why should we be surprised? 🙂 

Dan

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51 minutes ago, DannyBoy said:

You are correct that Cord does not have Emanate, but follower hits are enough to proc it, so you don't really need the Emanate feature to benefit from it on the follower.

Ah, I see what you're getting at. This would not work for me as my follower's Head, Waist, Feet, and Legs are dedicated to the Cain's and Sage's set, while the rest are:
Shoulders - Spaulders of Zakara
Hands - Gloves of Worship
Wrists - Nemesis Bracers
Ring1 - RoRG
Ring2 - Avarice Band / Unity
Neck - The Flavor of Time
Chest - Goldskin

... I am an Emanate *filtered* 😄

53 minutes ago, DannyBoy said:

what does and does not proc Manald Heal

That one isn't too hard, except that it's a proc within a proc - Paralysis triggers MH, however Paralysis is only triggered by Lightning SPELLS (i.e. abilities on your skill bar ONLY). Thunderfury, Arcstone, Schaefer's Hammer, Fulminator, Conduit Pylon effects, etc. will NOT trigger Paralysis, and therefore not trigger MH.

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1 hour ago, Sableflame said:

Ah, I see what you're getting at. This would not work for me as my follower's Head, Waist, Feet, and Legs are dedicated to the Cain's and Sage's set, while the rest are:
Shoulders - Spaulders of Zakara
Hands - Gloves of Worship
Wrists - Nemesis Bracers
Ring1 - RoRG
Ring2 - Avarice Band / Unity
Neck - The Flavor of Time
Chest - Goldskin

Well, for grifts you don't really need the Sage set 3pc, Gloves of Worship, or Goldskin, right? It is inconvenient to switch back and forth on the same follower, of course. Previously, I was 90% templar and 10% Enchantress. With the boosts the Scoundrel got, he's ideal for the extra damage you need in grifts, so I gear him for that mode. I have Sage and Gold gear on the Enchantress for non-grift mode. I made a Windforce bow with the cube, so the knockbacks add some crowd control. Blind Faith helm is also good for that.

Dan

Edited by DannyBoy

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