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Gnar

H Paragons

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Got H Siegecrafter down last night with me on the belt! Great fight, did both spots and loved it.  Now, naturally, we are working on paragons and I have a very simple question.  I'm rolling Destro and multidotting Immolate when my 4pc procs.  The ember regen is nuts, especially when I use havoc, but would it be more efficient to target each between CD's of havoc or FnB if they are stacked in its range since damage is irrelevant?

 

I'm obviously capable of trying both out, but if anyone who has killed it week after week has known data between doing this, let me know.

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Don't FnB to apply immolate, just stick with manually applying it and keeping the 4pc buffed the whole time.

 

If you struggle with mechanics you can even cut it down to just multi dotting one off target to help focus on the fight more.

 

Also don't forget to keep Rain of Fire down.

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I found the regen to not be needed, the impact on eDPS was small enough that it wasn't worth it to me. Now that people are doing progression on it in 10-20ilvl more then I had, I can't see the DPS gain to be needed in any form.

 

If you want to min/max it, go for it. But make sure you're not sacrificing mechanics to it.

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The ONLY time I have F&B is when we are on the second Paragon and he has more than 3 parasites around him giving 5+ targets... and even then I'm not convinced it was worth it.  Your Immolate on Kill target will do less DMG due to the F&B modifier and you will require 10 crits to make up the ember you spent on it before you are in the positive.

 

Havoc with 4p for sure.

 

Also, IMO avoid the Glyph Havoc "I need 2 CB on Rik'kal to bait slimes off Skeer" opener.  Its not required and I found better results using the first havoc to get the embers for an extra CB during procs on Kill target.  

 

My personal opener on this fight is:   Focus Rik'kal for Havoc Macro

RoF before they become active, pop CD's and Immo the first one that flies down(Rik'kal), double conflag him (that's the bait dmg for slimes), Immo Hisek, Immo Skeer, Havoc + 1 incin, then chain my CB's till out of embers, use last two havoc charges, drop another RoF on Hisek/Rik'kal/Slimes/Parasites cluster in mid, then CB's again.

 

Interested in hearing how others open, even if they go against my suggestion to not glyph.

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Interested in hearing how others open, even if they go against my suggestion to not glyph.

 

Basically do the same thing to bait Rik'kal, but with a mouseover and boss frames.  RoF>Havoc,DS>Conflag*2>Immolate>CoE>Rotation

 

So, seems like the FnB is a no go so won't waste pulls trying it.

 

Havoc is an obvious yes with 4pc which was a given.  I also wouldn't consider using the glyph here since there is no reason as its generally used for burst nuke with SB spam or burst ember regen which is not what I need.

 

And multidotting isn't required especially if I have to sacrifice mechanics (which I never do on progression).

 

Thanks for the input, I will take it to raid next week trying to Immolate different amounts of targets each time.

Edited by Gnar

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It´s nice to see so much variations  for such a small time frame, will try something of your approaches next id, especially the preRoF of Soulzar looks interesting.
My variation so far looks like this: Pop CDs, Immolate(it´s baked into one of my CD macros) Rikkal, double conflagrate and 1 incinerate, Havoc Skeer and 3 incinerates on Rikkal(so that I´m below 3 Stacks of Backdraft). Now targeting Skeer, CB, Immolate, CB, Doomguard. While walking with Skeer,  RoF on Rikkal and Hisek in the middle and so on. Normal destro proc-reactive playstyle.

 

Maybe I will hold back the Doomguard for using it on Xaril, the higher iLvl  will definitely put my guilds fight length under 10 minutes, making it impossible to use it 2 times.

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Maybe I will hold back the Doomguard for using it on Xaril, the higher iLvl  will definitely put my guilds fight length under 10 minutes, making it impossible to use it 2 times.

 

I personally use my DG and second pot on Kaz'tik, as I feel it has the highest potential to wipe our raid.  (mesmerize is hard)

 

Due to hero, Skeer dies so fast I don't bother with it there.  Due to Ilvls we'd probably be best saving Hero for Xaril/Kaz'tik now as well.

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Due to hero, Skeer dies so fast I don't bother with it there.  Due to Ilvls we'd probably be best saving Hero for Xaril/Kaz'tik now as well.

You want to delay Bloodlust/Heroism/Timewarp for Xaril or Kaz'tik.  Using it on Skeer is overkill.  If you can't kill Skeer without Bloodlust, you're going to run into some DPS issues with other mechanics that will complicate the fight further.

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if you're attacking the parasites at all, even with RoF, you're making it more difficult on your raid and should feel guilty EVERY single time someone gets killed by feed, especially if it results in a wipe.  That wipe was your fault.

 

Focus on the mechanics on paragons, it's just a mechanics fight, anything to try and cheese higher dps will result in wipes, your guild not killing it, and you not getting a chance to get loot because of it.

 

Use shadowfury regularly on parasites, and howl of terror every time it's off cd if you want to actually help your raid win.  Carry on and don't do that if you just want to win the damage meters.

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if you're attacking the parasites at all, even with RoF, you're making it more difficult on your raid and should feel guilty EVERY single time someone gets killed by feed, especially if it results in a wipe.  That wipe was your fault.

 

 

The parasites heal up to 100% every 10 seconds imo, so a RoF shouldn´t be a problem, especially if it helps you to generate more Ember faster. It is just the same principle for which you use Havoc most of the time. 

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if you're attacking the parasites at all, even with RoF, you're making it more difficult on your raid and should feel guilty EVERY single time someone gets killed by feed, especially if it results in a wipe.  That wipe was your fault.

 

Focus on the mechanics on paragons, it's just a mechanics fight, anything to try and cheese higher dps will result in wipes, your guild not killing it, and you not getting a chance to get loot because of it.

 

Use shadowfury regularly on parasites, and howl of terror every time it's off cd if you want to actually help your raid win.  Carry on and don't do that if you just want to win the damage meters.

 

 

 

RoF on the adds isn't just about padding, the amount of pad you would get from it is VERY little. The true value comes from the ember bit gain from having RoF on them, esp with high haste or crit RoF snap shotting.

 

Same idea with havoc, I use it on CD for paragons for the embers. Six well timed Incinerates = a lot of freaking embers. 

 

 

RoF has nothing to do with people getting killed by feed, and feed alone should NEVER kill someone. If it does, then healers need to be smacked. Feed + something kills people, 99% of the time the "something" is what killed them. Last week I had a bug on me and stood in the Aim line to soak (my job is to soak the aim line) it killed me. Why? Because one of our other raiders didn't stand in the line with me, the Aim alone would not have killed me. The bug alone would not have killed me. Both killed me. Fault? the other raider that didn't stand in the aim line. Nothing I could have done to stop that from happening, nothing I did caused it.

 

I almost never pad for the sake of padding, ranks meaning nothing to me since I know they mean nothing. But there is a difference between not padding and ignore eDPS gains. RoF on the bugs or even RoF on the bosses on paragons if they are stacked isn't padding, it's using fight mechanics to boost eDPS. eDPS is all that matters to me. 

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Ranks are fun and all, but killing things is what matters with me. For 10m on my high pop PVE server, I'm top 30 for overall DPS and 1st for most fights for locks. Doesn't mean I don't put my ass on the belt for the sake of the team and get in the nice 2%ile for that fight.  Most people who play at the Heroic level know how to get the most out of their abilities.  Havoc, RoF, and criting Immolate on multiple targets will always end in more Chaos Bolts.  If you do it correctly you don't lose anything single target on this fight because of it.

 

Now, just because I know how to use it doesn't mean I don't have a little fun with it.  Mouseover Havoc on an add sub 20% on Nazgrim never hurt anyone, accept that dirty arcane mage on my server.

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Now, just because I know how to use it doesn't mean I don't have a little fun with it.  Mouseover Havoc on an add sub 20% on Nazgrim never hurt anyone, accept that dirty arcane mage on my server.

Just don't make the same mistake some Warlock in my guild did where he soul swapped his fully buffed DoT's to everything on Paragons, and proceeded to kill all the parasites and eventually get mutated and have nothing to eat...

 

That warlock was not me. Nope.

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I could imagine your.. ehm...i mean that warlocks dps graph looked really funny, first stellar and then *beeep*, nothing^^

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if you're attacking the parasites at all, even with RoF, you're making it more difficult on your raid and should feel guilty EVERY single time someone gets killed by feed, especially if it results in a wipe.  That wipe was your fault.

 

Focus on the mechanics on paragons, it's just a mechanics fight, anything to try and cheese higher dps will result in wipes, your guild not killing it, and you not getting a chance to get loot because of it.

 

Use shadowfury regularly on parasites, and howl of terror every time it's off cd if you want to actually help your raid win.  Carry on and don't do that if you just want to win the damage meters.

 

I understand your angle, DPS on the Parasites can break the CC that is keeping them off players.... but your logic above would also say that all ranged should take off their Legendaries, so that the capes don't AoE DMG the adds .. which can break CC and lead to a wipe if X, Y, Z, and -Z all line up.

 

Players who are scorpioned should be focused on picking off the parasites that are in somebodies face.  The only CC I ever do on them is a Howl for anything near me after my PBoI procs drops.  If I see somebody looking like they are in trouble, they get a shadow fury.  Outside of that they are completely ignored for the 2 minutes they are part of the fight.  I rarely waste time on Single target fears.

 

If I get dick punched by RNG and turned into a scorpion, i'll eat the closest one so that I can eat a second before leaving, and I always look to take one that bugging a healer, since DPS just ignore them and PEW PEW to get the boss that brings this mechanic to the fight, out of it.

Edited by Soulzar

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